Cheating husband won't sign a postnup

[ChooseTruth]

I agreed to stop asking him for the post-nup. we took it off the table.

 

Now I am trying to decide what to do next. I read the book "Surviving Affair", however I afraid that it doesn't fit my personality and I need to find some different way. I understood steps that were recommended and will use some of them. But while I was reading it, I couldn't believe that that poor guy took so much crap from his wife. I would walk away after she moved in with her lover. He waited, then the wife expressed absolutely no remorse, no apology, and he worked so hard on winning her back. I would not be able to do it emotionally.

 

He wants to work on the marriage, go to counseling, and tells me that he loves me. The problem is that he said too many hurtful things and I don't know if I can believe him. I asked him to move out to let me think about everything and he is looking for an apartment and sleeps in his car yesterday and today. He doesn't want to move and tells me that if we want to work on our marriage we should stay together, not separate. But then he criticized me for my anger.

he told me he wont do it anymore.

 

Do you think separation will help us if I don't believe him when he is saying that he loves me? I don't believe him b/c of his comment on Stress and finances causing him to break up with OW.

Or we should live together and do a lot of counseling?

 

I am not ready to divorce him yet, I want to believe that he loves me but have my doubts.

 

If you are going to try to make this work I think you shouldn't be separated. Distance kills relationships. You need to be having positive experiences together. Keep the discussions to a limited time. I do think your H needs to be taking a lot of initiative for figuring out how to fix this. If he's "stuck"... I think it's ok to go slow like you are saying. It can take a while to figure things out and really understand how you are affected by what's going on. One good thing is to focus on the "now" and what's good at this moment. The hardest part is you can't make him do anything, you can maybe figure out what you want and communicate it...but that's about it. The hard work is on him. The more you try to do it for him, the more you push him away. If he's not into fixing things...sigh...then you'll end up on the path I went down (divorce). Basically you need to get your head on straight, watch, wait, decide to stay or leave. Maybe set a timetable that only you know about (so it's not a controlling threat). Both MC and IC are good...but make sure you like the counselor. Do some good research, find someone who knows how to handle infidelity. Easier said than done.

 

Ugh, I can't people are still going on about "Should never have to prove yourself".....well if one partner just cheated they just proved absolutely unworthy. If the WS wants to stay in the marriage they had better sure as hell prove the opposite now ASAP or things are not going to work out. It's a massive crisis, bleeding wound that needs emergency medical attention...and if not treated because "time will heal" then the marriage will die. Plain and simple.

[Zenstudent]

Ok, this thread spooked me all night, maybe because I played around with the thought of some kind of post-nup myself.

 

When I think about it, I was betrayed, badly... and yet, I wouldn't sign a post-nup today. Not because I fear I would cheat in the future, just because it doesn't feel right. Some of you compared it with the marriage contract, but there's a difference. The marriage contract was offered out of love, a post-nup is made by fear. The fear that she'll cheat again, the fear that she's just pretending and just waiting for the right moment to pull the plug. This is very real to me. And yet I wouldn't sign it.

 

OP backed down on this demand which I think is good. What to do then? I see different paths. One is to divorce emediatly - you'll have your share of the marital property. If you wish, you can live together afterwards with divided finances. The result is about the same as with a post-nup.

 

Another path is this. I tried for a moment to put myself in your husbands shoes, and I think like another poster mentioned that he is in some sort of damage control. He's scared but doesn't show it, and he is trying to minimize his actions and thereby consequences.

 

If you want this to work, you need to talk - a lot. I think it would be best if you stay together in the house, you don't need to share the bed if you're uncomfortable with it. But it's unworthy to sleep in the car and I don't think it's beneficial if you want to stay together.

 

Have you told him how deeply his words hurt you? Does he understand and acknowledge it? I ask because you don't come across as a very emotional person here in this thread, maybe he doesn't get the the emotional pain and only sees the technical difficulties on your side?

 

Sit down and talk. Tell him how hurt you are and exactly why. Tell him that you don't trust him. Ask him how he's gonna help bring that trust back on track, tell him that unless he comes up with something significant and measurable, you don't see a future for the two of you.

 

You may even back that up by serving him the papers to add pressure if you like. Tell him he has untill the divorce is final to come up with something.

 

This isn't easy, I'm with you.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

I am not ready to divorce him yet, I want to believe that he loves me but have my doubts.

 

There is no need to make a hasty decision.

 

Be very careful when you "want to believe" that you don't start ignoring things that go against what you "want."

 

The stress and finances remark troubles you. Have you asked him about it directly. If not, why not? And if so, what was his response?

 

How do you think he would react if you told him you want to divorce him, then give him a chance to court you and re-marry you? Then you would feel that he really did love you and want to be married to you.

 

What would it take for you to feel that he is not there only because of "stress and finances"?

[vera345]

I asked him about his comment related to stress and finances. He says that he meant the stress of losing his family.

I think he was honest with me about loving 2 women. He did fell in love with ow over Internet and when he told me about it first he was in limbo and didnt know who to chose. He kept telling me that he just need time to break up with her, that if he does it immediatt she may have a heart attack.

I gave him an ultimatum and told him that I wish him happiness with ow. And I started to move on with my life.

Only after I did that he came back and stopped all contacts with ow and told me that he wants to work on our marriage.

[vera345]

I hacked his email and read some of their correspondence. He wrote her that he loved her and wants to be with her.

The strange thing was that he pretended to be someone who he was not. It was even in very small things. For example, he wrote to her that he likes Mexican food and frequently goes to Mexican restaurant. The reality is that he hates Mexican food and only goes bc I ask him. He told her that he likes cooking and he does it frequently- he didn't cook a single meal over 10 years of marriage. He told her that he has a gym in his garage and works put there 3-4 times a week, we don't have any gym and I wanted to go a long time ago - he refused every time. He complains that he works hard at his work so that he doesn't need gym.

 

It's like he created a different reality there. I don't understand this- if he wanted relationship with her why lie about such small things?

 

Then eventually he tried to break up with her and she started to push . She told him that she will always wait for him and she will sell her business and help him financially bc they need to be together. She became needy didn't want to wait any longer and told him that she will not be able to live if he leaves her. She wrote to him that she can only be happy with him.

 

I read his letters back and he tried to explain to her that a woman cannot do this she cannot make another person completely responsible for their happiness and that he is starting to think that they are not right for each other. She backed off and begged him to not leave her, wrote him that she had a heart attack and was taken to the hospital when he told her that they can't be together.

I read all of this and it was like they both are crazy. I don't know what to think about all of this

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Vera,

 

I agree that for marriages that are in RECONCILIATION, that living together is best. But you are not, and neither is he.

 

I am going to suggest some dramatic action on your part.

 

I would print some of the emails he they wrote back and forth. You should keep copies anyway for you.

 

Sit down and make him read them out loud to you. Make him read all the I love yous and we are going to be togethers. Do not badger or question. Just listen.

 

Ask him to explain why, after hearing that to explain again why he wants to stay. Because it sure sounds like he wants to leave and that he doesn't love you. It sounds like his exit plan blew up and you are the backup plan.

 

Ask him how would he feel if. The situation was reversed? What would he do?

 

What would he recommend a friend or your child do if presented with the data?

 

Ask him to explain to you about why he started. He will say it was something with the marriage, but you are in the same marriage and you didn't cheat. He needs to find out why.

 

Because hon...this AP turned out to not be a match, but he will do it again and leave you high and dry.

 

Ask him what he is going to do? (Books, counseling, NC letter to AP).

[vera345]

He deleted all emails, I don't have them.

He already ended all contacts with ow. So I am not sure what nc letter will do now since he isn't communicating with her already. He says any additional letters after a week on nc will only make her think that he wants to start it again. He said its done already he doesn't need to keep explaining things to her.

He agrees to start mc and open all emails passwords credit cards

I asked him to give me a space and he is doing it.

 

I am not sure what to do next. We talk a lot. I am just afraid that he is telling me these things now bc I want to hear them and he wants back. He doesn't want to live alone, that's for sure. Or maybe he is being honest and wants to save his marriage.

[vera345]

I will ask him those questions

[It-is-what-it-is.]

He deleted all emails, I don't have them.

He already ended all contacts with ow. So I am not sure what nc letter will do now since he isn't communicating with her already. He says any additional letters after a week on nc will only make her think that he wants to start it again. He said its done already he doesn't need to keep explaining things to her.

He agrees to start mc and open all emails passwords credit cards

I asked him to give me a space and he is doing it.

 

I am not sure what to do next. We talk a lot. I am just afraid that he is telling me these things now bc I want to hear them and he wants back. He doesn't want to live alone, that's for sure. Or maybe he is being honest and wants to save his marriage.

 

Why did he delete them? After he found out you read them?

 

His reactions to everything is of someone who does not get it. The NC letter is to drive a firm stake in it. It may just be for you to feel comfortable. Since he never told her he loves you and the relationship was a mistake, then it definitely leaves the door open for her to contact him.

 

This is of course up to you, but the point is...everything you ask for he argues he won't do it...or at least it seems that way. Post nup, NC letter, moving out...what EXACTLY HAS HE ALREADY DONE. Not that he will give you passwords, but say I have all his passwords. We went through his Facebook and emails together. He promises not to delete emails. Again...not so much what you have asked for, but what has he done?

 

I really believe HE needs counseling...I wouldn't even consider MC until he starts that.

 

Ok you need to answer some questions.

 

You said you both "talk a lot" but you are not telling us what he is saying.

The words and context matter.

[ChooseTruth]

He deleted all emails, I don't have them.

He already ended all contacts with ow. So I am not sure what nc letter will do now since he isn't communicating with her already. He says any additional letters after a week on nc will only make her think that he wants to start it again. He said its done already he doesn't need to keep explaining things to her.

He agrees to start mc and open all emails passwords credit cards

I asked him to give me a space and he is doing it.

 

I am not sure what to do next. We talk a lot. I am just afraid that he is telling me these things now bc I want to hear them and he wants back. He doesn't want to live alone, that's for sure. Or maybe he is being honest and wants to save his marriage.

I know you are desperate to fix this, I was too, but this is HIS job to fix and find solutions for what he did. Unless it's inviting him back to the house, I wouldn't do much of anything except be the best person you can be.

[vera345]

I let him back into the house, all passwords are removed.

 

I don't see why NC letter is necessary now. I didn't ask him to stay with me, I let him have ow if he wanted. Those relationship dead in a natural death.

I read several books about affairs, all of them said that A should die in natural death, writing NC letter is forcing it to die. If he starts writing her letters now after 10 days of NC it will be interpreted like an attempt to start conversation again. In this situation, I just don't see the point.

 

He will schedule counseling.

I gave him several conditions of staying at the house, he agreed to all of them. The conditions were 1) removal of all passwords, giving me full access to everything- its done; 2) not criticizing me for my anger (I had several situations when I started arguments with him and wanted to talk about A) and he agreed to answer and talk - we actually did it today. 3) honesty and discussing his feelings with me - whether bad or good 4) Marriage counseling starting immediately and 5) fixing the door that he broke during one of the arguments.

 

He talked to me today and he explains that he wants to save his marriage and that he is emotionally and physically exhausted. He also told me that he has feelings like he lost something when he stopped communicating with ow. He was emotionally connected to her. He doesn't feel comfortable telling me this, but wanted me to know how he feels. He also said that the thoughts of losing his family is killing him and he loves me and never stopped loving me.

 

I am watching him, all his emails, history, ect. I am not going to do anything else for now and just see what he will try to do in order to save his marriage. I will be nice, but he needs to make steps to fix it.

[vera345]

To answer question about why he deleted emails. I didn't read all of them, I read some. He deleted them couple hours after I broke into his email. This was almost 3 weeks ago.

 

I don't see why this is a bad thing that he deleted them, in fact, it would be strange if he wanted to keep them and read them from time to time.

 

I wish I wouldn't read them because they hurt me, but part of me glad that I did because a lot of things that he wrote about himself were not true and it makes all these relationship look unreal. Like it wasn't even him who wrote it, like he created an entire different personality for this ow. He created a person who doesn't exist in real life.

[vera345]

I also realize that he had real feelings for ow.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

There are lots of different opinions about some steps. You do what is right for you. I do not agree with the natural death concept, especially since he is clearly grieving his breakup with his AP but that's my opinion.

 

So he agreed to your terms. That's good. Maybe it's your writing style but it still sounds like he is not trying to figure out what you need. Is HE reading books? Is HE digging deep? It just doesn't sound like it. It still sounds like damage control. Lots and lots and lots of affairs just go underground after DDay. I am not saying this is the case here, but what is keeping him from contacting her for "closure" or to share that they had a true love (blah blah) I have forgotten, did you say his AP was married? Or single?

 

When you get marriage counseling you need someone who specializes in infidelity. Otherwise the focus will be on cooking meals together and sharing chores. :( not that a marriage shouldn't focus on those things after the elephant in the room has been addressed.

 

Things are progressing, and that is good. But since you let him move back in, you have been doing all the compromising (post nup, NC letter), you have made up the rules...it remains to be seen if anything is evidenced in his actions.

 

I hope so, I really do.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

To answer question about why he deleted emails. I didn't read all of them, I read some. He deleted them couple hours after I broke into his email. This was almost 3 weeks ago.

 

I don't see why this is a bad thing that he deleted them, in fact, it would be strange if he wanted to keep them and read them from time to time.

 

I wish I wouldn't read them because they hurt me, but part of me glad that I did because a lot of things that he wrote about himself were not true and it makes all these relationship look unreal. Like it wasn't even him who wrote it, like he created an entire different personality for this ow. He created a person who doesn't exist in real life.

 

He should not delete emails unless you agree. You MAY have wanted or needed to read them...he should not make those decisions for you.

 

Example. He gets an email from OW or sends an email to OW. but deletes it and tells you that there was nothing of importance in it... How would that fly?

 

You have access, but he can delete his emails, use a new email account or work email. It's not like its foolproof. The idea is he builds trust in your trust bank.

 

He may have been creating a fantasy with her, or rather, lying to her. But he was/is lying to you too.

 

Yes he wrote he has feelings for her. He told you he still has feelings for her.

 

This would crush me and I am not sure I could handle it....but if you can. Maybe you need to find out why. What was he getting from her? I mean it was email, text, Skype or video conference at minimum right? What was it that she gave him or made him feel? They shared what exactly? They talked about what exactly?

 

What about that relationship has him prepared to lose you? To lose your family?

 

Cause at some point...when he admits that he had an affair, that he cheated and broke his vows, he will really fall hard.

 

I am not convinced yet he has the guts to dig deep. But I don't matter, you do, and you seem ready to let this stuff slide...or maybe it's your writing style.

[vera345]

I agree, I do believe that he is in damage control right now. However, I felt like keeping him living in a car will only prolong this stage. He looks exhausted, tired, and is not thinking clearly. When I asked him if he has any plan he said that he doesn't know what to do now, but will do everything that I want at this point.

 

He works a physically demanding job, and it won't benefit any of us if he makes some mistake that may cost him a life or may costs the lifes of other people because he has been sleeping in a car for a week.

 

So, I made a choice to let him come back home. Now Its up to him how and if he will work on fixing his marriage. I hope counseling will help. I won't do anything else, I will be nice but I did enough at this point. I have set a deadline in my mind for me to see some actions or changes from him, and if I wont, I am prepared to leave.

[vera345]

I have keylogger on his computer and cell phone, if I see anything new - I won't even discuss it again, will simply pack and leave.

 

He has no computer at his work, he works at the factory. Technically, he will have to go to some friends or library to send an email to her that I wouldn't find out about. This will be very hard to do.

 

He doesn't know about keylogger.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Ok, fair enough. One last suggestion then I am off to bed.

 

 

When I asked him if he has any plan he said that he doesn't know what to do now, but will do everything that I want at this point.

 

This illustrates my point exactly. Your feelings and approach and lines in the sand are all fine..if they are fine with you.

 

But he broke this. He needs to figure out how to fix it. He needs to read, do research, try stuff. His job, not yours.

 

Its perfectly fair to say you are giving yourself some time to see if you can commit to marriage. That you are open to seeing an infidelity marriage counselor. As long as he abides by the agreement you are willing to entertain him living there. But that none of those things will cure it. He has to make a huge effort.

 

But you might want to sit him down, over a cold drink and let him know that there are books and other resources available to help him figure out the answer to the question above. If he loves you. Then he will invest the time he had been investing in her, in figuring out how to make you safe in the marriage. Commitment = action, proactive.

 

Or not.

 

Good luck

[vera345]

He also told me yesterday that he needs to learn to be happy with what he has. He said that he was searching for happiness outside when in reality it's inside himself.

I already told him that he needs to do a lot of work to figure out what caused him to go outside of marriage and cheat. He listen but didnt answer.

 

I understand that right now I am doing most of the work. It stops now. Now I will watch and see what he does.

 

I simply wasnt ready to end marriage last week, I felt that I didn't do everything to save it. Now I feel that I gave him every possible chance that I could and if he doesnt work hard from now on I am ready to end it. I am also saving money now in case if I need to start living on my own, we divided our finances and in couple months I will be ready emotionally and financially to end it if I don't see any digging and fixing things from his side. I want it to work but its not up to me at this point

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Good plans. And his insight was good...but words vs actions.

 

For now you should be selfish, work out, get a new haircut, stash some running away money.

 

Be kind, but be sure he knows that he broke it, he has to fix it.

 

Keep posting.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

How's everything going?

[vera345]

Horrible. I made several huge mistakes last night. We were at home everything was peaceful for the last couple days. I thought we were working on our marriage.

Then boom I spied and search his phone records found out several phone calls that were made to a travel and visa agency.

I called the agency and they told me that he got a visa to the country where that woman lives and that he was calling about ticket prices.

I got worse after that.

I stormed home mad and confronted him about it. He admitted that he did it and told me that visa expires in 10 days and he wanted to call them to find out prices.

I forgot everything that I learned I cried asked him to think about what he is doing. I told him I can't live like this anymore and told him I am going take my car and drive myself into big truck on highway.

He went and gave me visa, I tore it apart

Then he left I followed him to talk and he called cops to stop me from following him

[vera345]

I completely lost it. I don't know what happened to meI am going through this for 2 months now and as soon as I give him freedom he wants to come back and work on relationship. Then when I try I find that he is lying to me and back contacting that woman.

 

 

I am done with living like this. I became this crazy person who I never thought I would be just because I wanted to save my marriage.

[Zenstudent]

No wonder he won't sign anything. Don't you think it's about time you just move on with your own life? Think you, you and you. How would you like to live your life?

 

Take care and stay strong.

[vera345]

It just crashed me when I found out that he is still writing to her and lying to me. We live far away from any of my friends and family. I left my family, career, my entire life, and moved to his he town to be with him.

Now I have a job here and my baby. I have several friends too but it's not the same as friends who knew me for many years.

I have no support other than this forum.

What I did yesterday was so wrong and crazy it's not like me at all.

And I can't believe he called cops just to stop me from talking to him.

He doesn't care about me at all.

I am going to file for divorce ASAP. I am very busy at work for the next 10 days and don't have time to do it, but I will immediately after my job assignment is over