"So you've been having sex with my wife?"

[Realist3]

Just curious Realist3, are you still cheating?

I only ask this as it seems to me that if you are you may have an ingrained hatred of those that out their AP to their AP's H....

No disrespect intended :-)

 

I am involved in an affair, although my wife knows about it my AP's spouse does not.

 

I don't hate anyone, I simply have a point of view.

 

I would never try and harm my AP by outing the affair to her spouse. Her relationship with me is my business, and her relationship with her husband is her business.

[ian1966]

To realist3,

 

Hypothetically, lets say your W had had enough, had the contact details of your AP's H (who suspects your affair from your posts) and gave you an ultimatum. Either she calls him and outs the A without you knowing what she knows and what she would say to him, or you do and maintain some level of control over the information / situation.

What would you do?

How would the consequences differ?

 

I understand you don't hate anyone, but don't you hate the idea of fessing up to Ap's H?

 

 

I think the lengths you go to to hide the A is remarkable, and as you say, not a big deal as the "pattern is in place", lets see if complacency bites you in the ass one day...

Edited August 22, 2013 by ian1966

[velvette]

I am involved in an affair, although my wife knows about it my AP's spouse does not.

 

I don't hate anyone, I simply have a point of view.

 

I would never try and harm my AP by outing the affair to her spouse. Her relationship with me is my business, and her relationship with her husband is her business.

 

I'm sure when her H finds out he will show you the error of your thinking :laugh:

[Realist3]

To realist3,

 

Hypothetically, lets say your W had had enough, had the contact details of your AP's H (who suspects your affair from your posts) and gave you an ultimatum. Either she calls him and outs the A without you knowing what she knows and what she would say to him, or you do and maintain some level of control over the information / situation.

What would you do?

How would the consequences differ?

 

I understand you don't hate anyone, but don't you hate the idea of fessing up to Ap's H?

 

 

I think the lengths you go to to hide the A is remarkable, and as you say, not a big deal as the "pattern is in place", lets see if complacency bites you in the ass one day...

 

 

I don't know if I could answer that 'hypothetical' because that scenario would never exist, because my W and AP are friends. My wife would never blow anything up like that.

 

But let's assume I'm in a more typical situation. My wife finds out and is livid and proposes the ultimatum you suggested. First, I would not contact him(AP's H) under any circumstance. Secondly, I would let her know that if she contacted him about the affair our relationship would be over immediately. But the thing is she just isn't wired that way. She is a very private person, and doesn't like anyone knowing about any dirty laundry. And to be perfectly frank I would never be involved with someone who would think of such a thing, so I may not be in the best position to answer that question. I am well aware that my situation is not the norm. The problem exists between the two of us, not the AP or the AP's H.

 

but don't you hate the idea of fessing up to Ap's H?

 

I don't think that relationship is any of the AP's business. They live it, own it on their terms, not the AP's terms. I think outing the A to the AP's spouse is a betrayal of that relationship.

 

I think the lengths you go to to hide the A is remarkable, and as you say, not a big deal as the "pattern is in place", lets see if complacency bites you in the ass one day...

 

It almost could have earlier this summer. Thankfully, we both woke up. We shall see. You never know what the future holds. At the current time I am confident in the methods we have in place.

[Realist3]

I'm sure when her H finds out he will show you the error of your thinking :laugh:

 

I'm not sure how that is even remotely funny. His issue is with her, not me.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I don't know if I could answer that 'hypothetical' because that scenario would never exist, because my W and AP are friends. My wife would never blow anything up like that.

 

The problem exists between the two of us, not the AP or the AP's H.

 

I don't think that relationship is any of the AP's business. They live it, own it on their terms, not the AP's terms. I think outing the A to the AP's spouse is a betrayal of that relationship.

 

It almost could have earlier this summer. Thankfully, we both woke up. We shall see. You never know what the future holds. At the current time I am confident in the methods we have in place.

 

I really need to go to bed but need to respond to this....Realist unless just about everything's you say is false or some twist of false these statements above are almost laughably ridiculous.

 

I might quote wrong, because this is just my recollection of some of the threads you have commented on.

1. Your wife is not "friends" but rather you indicated that you did not understand their relationship and it was likely more of a "keep your enemies close" type relationship.

2. You have informed/consulted your preteen daughter of the affair and your intent to leave your wife. Your preteen daughter would prefer to have MOW as her Parent.

3. Your MOW has informed /consulted /involved her teenage daughter in the affair details.

4. You have this affair in part at work in full view of children, in fact, had a fight earlier this year where the entire school walked out and heard you discussing leaving your spouses.

5. Your AP has someone/people at work who are her enemies? Who could out you, but you have some "plan" to deal with that.

6. You make little to no effort to keep the affair confidential.

7. You believe your agreement with your wife is to not throw it in her face, but you did not say she accepts the affair, rather you told her you were going to have the affair and she could take it or leave it? And that her silence is in part out of humiliation.

8. Your MOW had a meltdown when you tried to break it off and threatened to blow everything up, which led to you continuing the affair.

 

So what in this...just what I recall, causes you to believe you have some well greased flawless affair methodology and that you cannot be outed????

 

Really?

[velvette]

I'm not sure how that is even remotely funny. His issue is with her, not me.

 

Him finding out is not funny; you thought process is hilarious.

 

Do you seriously not see the irony in most of what you have said on this thread?

 

I agree that his primary issue is his cheating wife; however, I would be seriously surprised if when he finds out he does not make your relationship with her his business and have some issue with you as well.

[SolG]

Hey OP, I don't believe in absolutes. Context is everything. Are lives better because you told the BH? If the answer is yes, then maybe what you did was right for the circumstances you all found yourselves in.

 

I'm an OW and there is no way I can imagine telling my MM's W about us. Why? Because I am sure it would achieve nothing but hurt and pain in my/our particular context. If he were to come to me tomorrow and say he wanted to end our A and focus on his M... I would let him go and do exactly that without interference (while I crawl into a hole and spontaneously combust).

 

I don't believe his M or W would benefit from knowing about me. In fact, I think they would stand a much better chance if she remained blissfully ignorant.

 

I've also been thinking about this from my own perspective with regard to my own marriage (way back when I was married). I don't think I would have wanted to know if my H had had an A. But I'm not sure if that would be the case if there were multiple indiscretions and it was a pattern of behaviour as opposed to a one off aberration. Then I probably would have wanted to know :-/

 

I keep coming back to the same conclusion... There are no absolutes and what is right in one case may be completely wrong in another.

 

Good luck with your R.

[Realist3]

I really need to go to bed but need to respond to this....Realist unless just about everything's you say is false or some twist of false these statements above are almost laughably ridiculous.

 

I might quote wrong, because this is just my recollection of some of the threads you have commented on.

 

Yes you got a lot of it wrong.

 

 

1. Your wife is not "friends" but rather you indicated that you did not understand their relationship and it was likely more of a "keep your enemies close" type relationship.

 

They are friends in the respect that they are friendly with each other. They play games together. They socialize in the same circles. They are known as friends. Are they great friends? No.

 

 

2. You have informed/consulted your preteen daughter of the affair and your intent to leave your wife. Your preteen daughter would prefer to have MOW as her Parent.

 

 

I don't have any intent of leaving my wife. Otherwise yes.

 

3. Your MOW has informed /consulted /involved her teenage daughter in the affair details.

 

Her oldest daughter knows of it, but that is all.

 

 

4. You have this affair in part at work in full view of children, in fact, had a fight earlier this year where the entire school walked out and heard you discussing leaving your spouses.

 

I'm retired. She doesn't work. The school didn't walk out. We just kept talking after everyone had left. That's what kinda takes place after school. People come pick up their kids and they go home. Our discussion which was a bit heated lasted longer than anyone else stayed. That is all.

 

 

5. Your AP has someone/people at work who are her enemies? Who could out you, but you have some "plan" to deal with that.

 

She has one particular person that works at the school who she used to be close to before she got divorced... and they don't like each other very much. This person doesn't know anything.

 

 

6. You make little to no effort to keep the affair confidential.

 

Wrong. There are only three people outside of my wife that know.

 

 

7. You believe your agreement with your wife is to not throw it in her face, but you did not say she accepts the affair, rather you told her you were going to have the affair and she could take it or leave it? And that her silence is in part out of humiliation.

 

No comment.

 

 

8. Your MOW had a meltdown when you tried to break it off and threatened to blow everything up, which led to you continuing the affair.

 

I suggested a break, not a break up, and she did not go for that. It changed the dynamic of the relationship. It was never really over even though I entertained that thought.

 

So what in this...just what I recall, causes you to believe you have some well greased flawless affair methodology and that you cannot be outed????

 

Really?

 

Time.

[Realist3]

Him finding out is not funny; you thought process is hilarious.

 

Do you seriously not see the irony in most of what you have said on this thread?

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but no I don't.

 

What you are probably missing is that you think I am suggesting one is right and the other is wrong. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying in this case there are two wrongs going on.

 

I agree that his primary issue is his cheating wife; however, I would be seriously surprised if when he finds out he does not make your relationship with her his business and have some issue with you as well.

 

 

If that takes place, his issue is with her. He is married to her, not me. The kicker is he has already had an affair so he really doesn't have much room to speak.

 

I have no concern whatsoever about any issue he would have with me. He is not going to eff himself in regards to me.

 

The whole thing is based on keeping both families together as they exist.

[AlwaysGrowing]

If that takes place, his issue is with her. He is married to her, not me. The kicker is he has already had an affair so he really doesn't have much room to speak.

 

You sir are oh so wrong, you conspired to cuckold him, not something men take lightly.

 

So what if he had an affair, does that mean he isn't entitled to have a faithful wife? If one believes that the betrayed spouse is not the reason why one chooses to have an affair, why would this be any different.

 

Not to mention, if one has lived it, has grown and healed, they would not put up with this type of behaviour.

 

And of course there is the whole double standard in place for cheaters...its okay for them to be cheating but would dump their spouse OR ap if they cheated on THEM!!! The nerve of some people...who do they think they are!!!! Quite okay to be dishing it out, quite another to take it.

 

And you sir....are a case in point.

[Realist3]

I really don't give two sh*ts about him. Whatever his problems are in his M that led his wife to stray are his issues, not mine.

 

Not to mention, if one has lived it, has grown and healed, they would not put up with this type of behaviour.

 

It is suspected that his A is ongoing. She just doesn't care anymore.

[velvette]

You are entitled to your opinion, but no I don't.

 

What you are probably missing is that you think I am suggesting one is right and the other is wrong. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying in this case there are two wrongs going on.

 

 

 

 

If that takes place, his issue is with her. He is married to her, not me. The kicker is he has already had an affair so he really doesn't have much room to speak.

 

I have no concern whatsoever about any issue he would have with me. He is not going to eff himself in regards to me.

 

The whole thing is based on keeping both families together as they exist.

 

I didn't miss anything. The A was wrong. The disclosure of the A to the injured party and apology to him was right.

 

There is no loyalty owed the A partner. Any sane person knows that. If there was loyalty to the A partner during the A it is moot in the face of a reconciliation where loyalty transfers back to the BS. That is not even an issue of morality.....just plain common sense.

 

Your reasoning here is a perfect example of the foggy thinking people in A engage in. I'm guessing more than complacency, that is what will cause discovery of your A.

 

As for your AP H having an issue with you or not, that will be for him to determine, but not unheard of that he will. Again, you are living on a different planet than the rest of us if you think that doesn't happen.

[AlwaysGrowing]

It is suspected that his A is ongoing. She just doesn't care anymore.

 

You do know that it is common during an affair to accuse the bs for what the cheater is doing...right? It falls under justification.

[ian1966]

OK "Realist" ()

 

The kicker is he has already had an affair so he really doesn't have much room to speak.

 

What, your AP told you that I suppose? Nice logic. Interesting. So what happened when your AP found out her H's affair?

 

It is suspected that his A is ongoing. She just doesn't care anymore.

Because she is f*****G you. Can you say "revenge affair"?

 

Why are you so concerned about him finding out if he is in an affair as well? Why all the secrecy?

 

I really don't give two sh*ts about him. Whatever his problems are in his M that led his wife to stray are his issues, not mine.

 

Quite the contradiction... You claim you know he had an affair yet at the same time you claim not to know the reason that led his wife to stray?

You are obviously very close to your AP and yet you don't know? Come on.

 

You know, the vast majority of threads I read here involve WS's and BS's dealing with the aftermath of an A. Yes I'm sure there are others in your situation, yet I find you unique.

 

You...

- defend your affair to the death

- boast of all your magical methods of keeping it going all in order to prevent AP's husband from finding out, even listing them as a "guide" to others like you... oh wait, didn't you defend that by saying it was a guide to assist other BS's in how to find out? talk about playing both sides of the game!

- know AP's H has put surveillance on AP, but not found concrete evidence (yet)

- have a W that knows of the affair and remains steadfast to you (can you say "doormat")

- go off at me for dobbing in my AP to her H... that really stung you yeah.. the thought is just so abhorrent isn't it! As you said you would never betray your AP... just as well your good wife knows about your shenanigans so you wont never be put in such a position!

 

If your AP split with her H, what would you do?

Leave your wife and get with her? Bring fantasy life into real world? (good luck)

 

On a cruder note, just how much of the thrill is knowing your f*****g another mans wife? (Yes I admit it was a part of mine.)

 

Just be careful you don't fall in the pool while you're admiring your own reflection, eh?

 

I think you should change your misleading username

Edited August 22, 2013 by ian1966

[BeholdtheMan]

you conspired to cuckold him, not something men take lightly.

Yes but he owed no loyalty to this guy. If two people conspire to hurt you, one is some random bloke, the other is your wife who took vows of loyalty to you, 99% of your anger should rightfully be directed at your wife, not the random guy. The random guy didn't betray you. He's a stranger or maybe an acquaintance to you. Your wife betrayed you.

 

So what if he had an affair, does that mean he isn't entitled to have a faithful wife?

Once you have an affair, you don't get to cry about experiencing the same pain you inflicted earlier

 

If his wife claimed to have forgiven him but then went out and had an affair, she too would be guilty of deception...but the previously cheating husband obviously doesn't deserve as much sympathy as he would if he were innocent himself

[Betterthanthis13]

 

 

The whole thing is based on keeping both families together as they exist.

 

That is why I worry about you. That puts you, MOW, and both your BS's in the role of martyr- sacrificing personal happiness for the sake of appearances and for doing what you think is best for the family units.

 

That was the climate in my house growing up. My mom attempted to sacrifice her personal happiness in order to give her children a good life. Not because of an affair, but for different reasons.

 

The problem is- it backfires. All that good intent, and the great lengths you have to go to to keep juggling all the balls in the air takes a tremendous toll on you. It's torture. It's especially worse torture because you are so good at it.

 

My siblings and I just wanted my mom to be happy. She was always pretending to be happy but she never was. We had what looked like a good life, but it was all a sham.

 

My best friends parents were the kind of couple who were still in love with each other after years of marriage. It was obvious. It was real- not an act. The climate in her house was love. It was not stressful like my house. There was no big turmoil in my house. No yelling or anything. But the climate was all wrong.

 

If given the choice between having my mom happy, or having the appearance of a perfect home, my siblings and I would have all unanimously chosen her happiness over anything else. Were my tennis lessons really that important? No.

 

We were never given that choice, because she refused to be honest with us. She thought she was doing the right thing. We saw right through it and worried about her, but we were never given a choice. She sacrificed and kept up appearances for as long as she could. Then she had a mental breakdown. She still hasn't recovered 20 years later. She feels like a failure because she wasnt able to keep it together. She still to this day does not understand that we never wanted her to keep it together. We wanted her to be happy.

 

You are very strong and very smart and that is the worst part of it. You are clever enough to keep this whole thing going indefinitely- at your own expense.

 

I have no reason to judge you or tell you what to do- you really seem like you have it all figured out. The only thing I'd like is to see you happy.

[road]

OK, so after reading that, I get it. Our OW continued to intrude in our lives, I sent a simple, please stop after about 4 months of ignoring it. My husband finally sent a simple, please stop one month later after the intrusions continued. She followed with the whole it's not me (intrusions were anon) and insinuated it was me doing it...ugh, really, so I sent a truthful, detail filled email to her husband whom she said he had already told of the affair, outlining the intrusions..she went bat **** crazy, called the police in her town, she lives in GA, we live in CO..who called me to see if I wanted to press charges..backfire on her as she went to the police supposedly to get me for slander or whatever...I declined because like you all I want is her out of our lives...the drama positive or negative just needed to stop by any means necessary...to this day, a total of 7 months later, I still get hang ups as does my husband...they are fewer and far between but they still happen...I never intended to contact her husband but I did what I felt I needed to do to get her the heck out of our lives, my husband and I decided on this jointly. It has not worked completely but I am hopeful that every storm runs out of rain and that some day she will stop being an idiot. So, that's a long version of...I get it, sometimes you do what you feel you need to...

 

 

Standard normal exposure for the BS to expose the APS. To end the affair and bring about NC.

 

When a WS exposes their AP it is 99.99% of the time because the WS is tired of being strung along by their AP. Cause their AP is never leaving their BS for them.

 

Or the WS got dumped by their AP and now the WS wants revenge for being dumped.

 

To find a WS that exposes their APS to end the affair and get NC is rare. So rare that when it happens that it is so hard to believe.

[road]

Yes but he owed no loyalty to this guy. If two people conspire to hurt you, one is some random bloke, the other is your wife who took vows of loyalty to you, 99% of your anger should rightfully be directed at your wife, not the random guy. The random guy didn't betray you. He's a stranger or maybe an acquaintance to you. Your wife betrayed you.

 

 

You ignore reality. 78% of marriages survive an affair. They do so because the BS can and does put all their anger hurt pain on to the AP.

 

They have no intent to forgive or need to forgive the AP.

 

For the BS to put all those feelings on the WS and no marriage would be able to recover.

 

Beholdtheman were you a WS or a BS?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Realist "Three people besides my wife know."

 

Translates to

 

Your wife knows and is keeping quiet because of humiliation and whatever blackmail you are holding over her head...and she will keep quiet as long as it suits her motives the. She will blow it up.

 

Your preteen daughter knows, as does whine er her BFF and likely her bffs mom because she had to share her distress at being in on her fathers affair.

 

Your mow eldest daughter, her BFF, her boyfriend and her college sorority sisters and each of their boyfriends know...same reason plus drunken girl talk.

 

Your buddy, who you told and his significant other and her BFF etc.

 

The people who sense the sexual current between you two and have witnessed the deep conversations...

 

And so on...

[Spotme]

Who is he to determine what is best with her relationship with her husband? It is not his place.

 

Well, it is the BH's right to determine what is best for his relationship for himself and he can only do that if someone tells him about the affair. Telling is a betrayal of the relationship that is in itself is a betrayal of two other relationships? So what? The married APs have already long since demonstrated that they have no problem with betrayal, it's a founding tenet of their relationship. You (married APs) should expect betrayal as a very real possibility going in, since you have shown each other that you are willing to do it when you decide it's in your own best interest. It became Ian's best interest to tell so he did.

[So happy together]

To realist3,

 

Hypothetically, lets say your W had had enough, had the contact details of your AP's H (who suspects your affair from your posts) and gave you an ultimatum. Either she calls him and outs the A without you knowing what she knows and what she would say to him, or you do and maintain some level of control over the information / situation.

What would you do?

How would the consequences differ?

 

I understand you don't hate anyone, but don't you hate the idea of fessing up to Ap's H?

 

 

I think the lengths you go to to hide the A is remarkable, and as you say, not a big deal as the "pattern is in place", lets see if complacency bites you in the ass one day...

 

Bit of a holier than thou attitude, isn't it? We hid the sh*t out of our A. That is what people in A's do. You need to get a grip. You're over your AP? Then why are you posting all over about her? Makes zero sense.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Yes but he owed no loyalty to this guy. If two people conspire to hurt you, one is some random bloke, the other is your wife who took vows of loyalty to you, 99% of your anger should rightfully be directed at your wife, not the random guy. The random guy didn't betray you. He's a stranger or maybe an acquaintance to you. Your wife betrayed you.

 

So according to you, if my son and his friend break into my house and trash the place, I should only have anger at my son, very little towards the other **** that destroyed my house? That is not how life works, my anger would be at both of them. For the little **** that I didnt even know...more so.

 

Its like sitting on a bus, and a complete stranger walks up to you and takes a sledge hammer to your knees. They showed you one side of themselves (their choice), and exactly how do you now think you are "wired" to respond to them in the future?

 

And lets be REAL here, everyone knows what being married means. All of society recognizes that relationship and all that it entails. For you to state that an ap owes no one vows, that is to say that a thief doesnt owe me not to steal my stuff, based on the fact that he doesnt know me. That unless I secure his "word" that he wont steal my stuff, I shouldnt expect it.

[BetrayedH]

I agree that the wayward partner (with whom vows were taken) should get more of the blame. Let's call it 51/49.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I disagree with the percentage theory completely.

 

Each is 100% responsible for their actions. Period. 100%