When is enough, enough?

[agent.006]

Sorry for the length, but I really want to portray the whole picture before asking for your advice. I have lurked for a few months and value the insights that most of you are willing to share. Bottom line is that I'm considering leaving my wife and kids.

 

I have been married for 20+ years, and we have two boys ages 16 and 14. I love my wife (as we all say), but sometimes enough really seems like enough.

 

Here's my case:

* She doesn't want to have sex anymore. I have not had sex (or an affair) for over a year and a half. Thank goodness for an imagination and a few spare towels. When we do have sex, it is strictly missionary due to her opinions that virtually everything else is what "sluts and whores" do.

 

* She doesn't want to listen to me anymore when we have conflict. Instead, she only wants to interrupt me and berate or insult me.

 

* She has gained a crapload of weight and no longer seems sexy to me (or to herself, which is another point for later).

 

* She says she doesn't trust me, going back to a shirt I bought almost 20 years ago that I didn't tell her about. She doesn't believe I've had an affair to deserve untrustworthiness sexually, but still questions me when I've gone someplace that I didn't tell her about first.

 

* She has become extremely religious, to the point of almost being a full-fledged Christian zealot. On the other hand, I am an arms-length Christian that cannot stand over moralizing life.

 

* I married an assertive, take charge woman. Now after 4 career moves (the last two mine), she no longer has that attitude. Instead, in the last 3-4 years she has become a timid, indecisive woman lacking in any confidence.

 

* Relatedly, she is a complete neurotic, panicking over everything from not breaking less than 10 car lengths from the vehicle in front, the boys play fighting in the den (what boys don't do that?), and the occasional late notice when we miss a payment due to oversight. Shrill yelling, pot banging, fussing and complaining ensues. Even her mother has noticed how panicky she acts.

 

In her defense, she has had some minor medical issues which have affected her fear of getting pregnant, even with protection (neurotic). She also has gained a lot of weight (almost double her weight since we were married - understandable), which has affected her confidence. She also feels like she is underemployed, even though she took the current job to "get out of the rat race" instead of holding out for a better, more prestigious position.

 

Lately (as in the past 4 months), _every single day_ that we come home, the wife has been chewing me out, insulting me, accusing me of things that she knows I haven't done, and generally making my home life a living hell. Everyone knows that "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy", but this is getting ridiculous.

 

I have a possible new relationship in the wings, but it is far from definite and certainly not something that the OW (who I have never slept with) is demanding that I do. I have known this other woman for 10 years. In the past few months, we have been able to open up and share our latent feelings for each other and realize that we both want to have a relationship together. However, neither of us is willing to settle for an affair as long as I am married. We are in the same business, have the same interests, and have gone out on a few mini "dates", confirming the feelings we have for each other and the deep emotional connection we have together. (I hate the word 'soulmates', but it is scary close to what I feel). Frankly, I love her, and think I could easily fall deeply in love with her (and her with me). I do love my wife, but I am not so sure I am in love with her anymore and don't think she will ever be able to get back to that point.

 

The OW and I have discussed how we feel about each other at length. She would never ask me to get a divorce, nor is she willing to wait for me to do so. She is actively dating someone, so she will likely be "off the market" before I could possibly be back on the market. I don't know that I could "steal" her from him, so the two decisions (leave or stay, and new relationship or not) must be separate decisions. Her suggestion was to try to make it work with the wife, but if it just wasn't going to work, let it go and THEN we can figure out if a relationship between us would be worth pursuing together.

 

SO keeping with the first decision only: When is enough, enough? When do you leave an unhappy situation at home, even if you don't have another option and may end up alone?

[TaraMaiden]

When you want to.

And you obviously want to.

 

You just want someone here to tell you it's ok to do that.

 

Well, that's up to you.

Everybody's level of tolerance is different, but if you thought in any way that 'enough wasn't enough' yet, you wouldn't be asking the question.

[pteromom]

Is there anything GOOD in your marriage?

 

Anything you'd want to hold onto?

 

I see a lot of her issues as insecurity about her weight (including the missionary thing, unless she's always only done missionary).

 

Accusing you of cheating is a way of getting reassurance due to her own insecurity... although.. she's not completely wrong, is she? Sounds like you are in the middle of an EA.

 

Anyway - if there is anything worth holding onto, you may want to consider counseling before walking away. But if not, just do both of you a favor and go.

[JourneyLady]

Sorry for the length, but I really want to portray the whole picture before asking for your advice. I have lurked for a few months and value the insights that most of you are willing to share. Bottom line is that I'm considering leaving my wife and kids.

 

I have been married for 20+ years, and we have two boys ages 16 and 14. I love my wife (as we all say), but sometimes enough really seems like enough.

 

Here's my case:

* She doesn't want to have sex anymore. I have not had sex (or an affair) for over a year and a half. Thank goodness for an imagination and a few spare towels. When we do have sex, it is strictly missionary due to her opinions that virtually everything else is what "sluts and whores" do.

 

* She doesn't want to listen to me anymore when we have conflict. Instead, she only wants to interrupt me and berate or insult me.

 

* She has gained a crapload of weight and no longer seems sexy to me (or to herself, which is another point for later).

 

* She says she doesn't trust me, going back to a shirt I bought almost 20 years ago that I didn't tell her about. She doesn't believe I've had an affair to deserve untrustworthiness sexually, but still questions me when I've gone someplace that I didn't tell her about first.

 

* She has become extremely religious, to the point of almost being a full-fledged Christian zealot. On the other hand, I am an arms-length Christian that cannot stand over moralizing life.

 

* I married an assertive, take charge woman. Now after 4 career moves (the last two mine), she no longer has that attitude. Instead, in the last 3-4 years she has become a timid, indecisive woman lacking in any confidence.

 

* Relatedly, she is a complete neurotic, panicking over everything from not breaking less than 10 car lengths from the vehicle in front, the boys play fighting in the den (what boys don't do that?), and the occasional late notice when we miss a payment due to oversight. Shrill yelling, pot banging, fussing and complaining ensues. Even her mother has noticed how panicky she acts.

 

In her defense, she has had some minor medical issues which have affected her fear of getting pregnant, even with protection (neurotic). She also has gained a lot of weight (almost double her weight since we were married - understandable), which has affected her confidence. She also feels like she is underemployed, even though she took the current job to "get out of the rat race" instead of holding out for a better, more prestigious position.

 

Lately (as in the past 4 months), _every single day_ that we come home, the wife has been chewing me out, insulting me, accusing me of things that she knows I haven't done, and generally making my home life a living hell. Everyone knows that "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy", but this is getting ridiculous.

 

I have a possible new relationship in the wings, but it is far from definite and certainly not something that the OW (who I have never slept with) is demanding that I do. I have known this other woman for 10 years. In the past few months, we have been able to open up and share our latent feelings for each other and realize that we both want to have a relationship together. However, neither of us is willing to settle for an affair as long as I am married. We are in the same business, have the same interests, and have gone out on a few mini "dates", confirming the feelings we have for each other and the deep emotional connection we have together. (I hate the word 'soulmates', but it is scary close to what I feel). Frankly, I love her, and think I could easily fall deeply in love with her (and her with me). I do love my wife, but I am not so sure I am in love with her anymore and don't think she will ever be able to get back to that point.

 

The OW and I have discussed how we feel about each other at length. She would never ask me to get a divorce, nor is she willing to wait for me to do so. She is actively dating someone, so she will likely be "off the market" before I could possibly be back on the market. I don't know that I could "steal" her from him, so the two decisions (leave or stay, and new relationship or not) must be separate decisions. Her suggestion was to try to make it work with the wife, but if it just wasn't going to work, let it go and THEN we can figure out if a relationship between us would be worth pursuing together.

 

SO keeping with the first decision only: When is enough, enough? When do you leave an unhappy situation at home, even if you don't have another option and may end up alone?

 

Sounds like me way back when... before my divorce. Make sure you check out health issues; hormonal changes can do some of this, brain tumors, things like that. She needs a full medical check before you do anything, but it might help if YOU discuss with the doctor what you are seeing before he checks her out.

 

Second - I know back when I was that way, I was not happy with myself at all and blamed it on the ex-hubs, poor guy. He was a candidate for sainthood and I felt diminished by his light and took it out on both of us. If you are holding things in, start to let some of it out - not abusively (and don't stand for abuse). If she's an intuitive and you are not being yourself with her, she will know. So let some of that out; small steps at first, but gradually letting yourself out. This is better than "all at once" in a divorce, do you see that? Let her know fully who you are and see how she takes it over time before bailing. My ex-hubs started being himself, but it was only after he was in love with someone else and finally felt "safe" in doing so. I would have been more in love with the person he was becoming than the spineless man I thought I was married to!

 

Also individual counseling for her. She needs to get herself happy and STOP depending on you for that. This is an idea I did not come across during my marriage unfortunately.

 

Is she dependent? Sounds like she may be. If so, start insisting she take care of some things herself. Kind but firm. She should be driving, making her own appointments, getting into fitness classes, etc. She's going to be less of a burden if she learns to take care of herself, even if you divorce.

 

Marriage counseling for both of you - mostly as backup in case she refuses self-care things like fitness classes. Any counselor will want to find out why she makes excuses to not take care of herself and will help her figure that out. But an individual counselor might not hear about what is needed just from her.

 

In short, it's a lot of work. But it might be salvageable if it's not always been this way. Women in mid-life get unhappy with being housewives and not doing important things, while the breadwinner gets all sorts of pats on the back and recognition. They know they are getting older (and heavier) and life takes more effort. It hurts. And that hurt is reflected in the marriage.

 

If you don't want to salvage it, divorce her before going after your other woman. It's suspect already because a possible other person is affecting your view of your marriage anyway, but man up and try before bailing. It's going to affect your children. If they see you walk away after all that time, they will wonder about the people they are with and can they be counted on. It will affect your friends, your money situation and everything else.

 

In the end, the positive changes may happen to her after your divorce, so it makes sense to try to initiate some before the divorce. You don't have to threaten with divorce, but you do have to make it ABSOLUTELY clear that you are not happy in the marriage. Mine didn't tell me until the last possible second, which gave me no time at all in which to make changes.

 

I would recommend marriagebuilders (google it). They have some good ideas as to how much repair is warranted before leaving. Ignore the forum and just read the books and have her read them. Many marriages can be saved if people are just patient and smart. Most people would rather dispose of their spouses and start over. It seldom works as well as they imagine it will.

 

Good luck.

[JourneyLady]

PS. Stop depending emotionally on the other woman to discuss your marriage problems. Counseling and/or a male friend is the place to do that. It is bad boundaries to discuss with another female the problems in your marriage, unless they are a professional.

 

The other woman is going to be empathetic because she does not live with you and is not the one caretaking your kids and your laundry at this point. It's easy then. Really easy.

[agent.006]

I shouldn't talk about my marriage with the other woman. We have been used to counseling each other through several other personal and professional issues, so this is just another issue to consider. On the other hand, the stakes are much higher so I agree with you completely.

 

"If you don't want to salvage it, divorce her before going after your other woman. It's suspect already because a possible other person is affecting your view of your marriage anyway, but man up and try before bailing. It's going to affect your children. If they see you walk away after all that time, they will wonder about the people they are with and can they be counted on. It will affect your friends, your money situation and everything else."

 

Fair points, which echoes advice given me by one of my closest male friends. I'm not sure what to do. I so want to be happy again, but I'm just not so sure the woman I live with can be as soothing and comforting as the woman I married all those years ago. Hell, I'm smart enough to know that the other woman may not be that person 10 years from now, either. I'm so confused. Counseling, here we come.

[agent.006]

Is there anything GOOD in your marriage?

Accusing you of cheating is a way of getting reassurance due to her own insecurity... although.. she's not completely wrong, is she? Sounds like you are in the middle of an EA.

 

Sadly true. A mostly non-physical, but emotional EA. Even more embarrassingly, I'm really enjoying the comfort and companionship at this point. -sigh-

[agent.006]

Now, she's being extra nice as if she's forgotten everything we've talked about or as if she can tell that I'm leaning toward the door. Meanwhile, I've almost decided that I have indeed had enough. If we did not have kids, I'd be gone for sure. The boys love seeing us together when we aren't arguing. I don't want to hurt them or warp their views on love and marriage, but I'm really fed up with this crap.

 

We are supposed to have counseling, but I'm starting to think I would be better off with individual counseling rather than couples counseling, as I need to decide first off whether or now I want to be married to her or not. Hell, I may want to start with being separated, but it would be quite f'ing expensive to maintain a whole separate household.

 

Damn, I'm confused and I don't know what I'm going to do. I need to hit the lottery and go into the witness protection plan. That might just do it.

[agent.006]

Is there anything GOOD in your marriage?

 

Anything you'd want to hold onto?

 

Yes, there are good things. Believe it or not, she truly loves me very much. She is a great mother. She is a wonderfully caring individual. She is a very supportive person in terms of backing me when I need to change jobs or responsibilities, taking care of the kids/house when I travel, etc. She is also understanding of many of my personality issues (poor budgeting/execution skills, introversion and the need to be alone often, and absorption in my job sometimes). I'd like to think I've been supporting and understanding of her issues as well.

 

On paper and to outside appearances, we're a pretty good couple. I'm sure that almost everyone (other than the few people from whom I've sought advice) would be totally shocked to know what I'm thinking.

 

But I'm just not attracted to the new Julie anymore. Too many fights, too many arguments, far too little and too uninviting sex, two threats to leave, too much water over the bridge. I don't know that I will ever feel the same way again, but I'm not sure you need to feel the same butterflies with the same person after all these years.

[Misadventure]

Agent, the whole butterfly thing..its not the same as from the beginning and we all know this...JMO before heading out or checking out, go to BOTH individual and marriage counseling. Maybe start together and then see that same person for individual time. No one knows your life or marriage but you and your wife but any commitment is worth at least doing these things before you start mentally checking out and then doing so physically. Again, JMO.

[agent.006]

Agent, the whole butterfly thing..its not the same as from the beginning and we all know this...JMO before heading out or checking out, go to BOTH individual and marriage counseling. Maybe start together and then see that same person for individual time. No one knows your life or marriage but you and your wife but any commitment is worth at least doing these things before you start mentally checking out and then doing so physically. Again, JMO.

 

No, the butterflies are not the same but they're still here. The OW is out of town visiting family and out of contact for the weekend and I'm laying around the house watching football and thinking about her. My wife is cooking a big dinner and playing with the boys, trying to keep it together. She's still trying to be nice, but I know it's a matter of time before the feces hits the rotating air displacement machine.

 

We are scheduled for some sort of counseling sessions, but I just discovered that they are Christian based, and I'm not so sure that my wife understands that I don't accept the premise that I should stay unhappily married to a woman I am largely uncompatible with, mainly because the Bible says so. This has disaster written all over it.

 

I so want to move out, but I fear that it will not end well - as in, neither the wife nor the OW won't be around and I'll be alone.

 

So I'm left with the following choices and likely outcomes:

(1) Stay in an unhappy, sexless marriage with a wife that both loves me and irritates the (*censored*) out of me.

(2) Divorce the wife, and build a relationship with the OW.

(3) Divorce the wife, and be alone. (And play the online dating services. Oh joy.)

 

Clearly outcome 2 would be the most preferable, but probably the lowest probability. Outcome 3 would be the least preferable, but the most likely outcome once the divorce option is exercised. I mean, who really survives divorce and ends up with the OW? Outcome 1 is the most certain (since I can choose that at any moment), but it is not much better than 3.

 

Why do marriages have to be so damn difficult? Why are our choices so damn difficult?

[trippi1432]

I'll be alone.

 

That's when you will really learn more about what you want....for you.

[agent.006]

Maybe not. You might be surprised that once Julie finds out about little Missy....she may kick you out the door straight to the curb and no longer be an option. I would. An emotional affair is just as bad as a physical affair. You are cheating and pining away for a fantasy life with your OW.

 

I'd pack your **** so fast your head would spin!

Go get the greener grass Honey. Bye Bye now!

 

Thanks for your opinions. I wouldn't be surprised if she did (does) just that if she finds out about little Missy. The funny thing is that I might actually be OK with that eventually. Earlier this year, I spent 6 1/2 weeks in an apartment overseas away from Julie, and I must admit that it was the quite relaxing at times, even not being able to speak the local language and not having a car. No arguments, no strife, and nothing but doing whatever I wanted to do.

 

Then I came home.

 

Realistically, I don't expect to be in a relationship with the OW. She's just a figure at the moment. Maybe 10% odds, probably lower. It really isn't about her as much as it is about Mrs. Julie and me.

 

We'll see.

[Lokie]

Agent, where is the option where you end the marriage, recognize that every story has two sides, take a long, hard look at yourself and your actions in the marriage and where you contributed to its demise, and you live single, with no dating and prepare to be a better partner in the future?

 

I would have more sympathy for you if you actually had taken the time to approach your wife as 1/2 of this partnership and asked how you can work on it together. You're in deep rationalization mode because of your outside EA. Watching football and thinking of the OW while wifey cooks a big meal for you and your family? Ouch for your wife! There are three people in your marriage now and your wife - however horrific you think she is - is at a disadvantage because you are not being honest with her.

[agent.006]

Agent, where is the option where you end the marriage, recognize that every story has two sides, take a long, hard look at yourself and your actions in the marriage and where you contributed to its demise, and you live single, with no dating and prepare to be a better partner in the future?

 

Me a contributor? Blasphemy.

 

I would have more sympathy for you if you actually had taken the time to approach your wife as 1/2 of this partnership and asked how you can work on it together. You're in deep rationalization mode because of your outside EA. Watching football and thinking of the OW while wifey cooks a big meal for you and your family? Ouch for your wife! There are three people in your marriage now and your wife - however horrific you think she is - is at a disadvantage because you are not being honest with her.

 

With all due respect and a lack of intended smart-assedness, I don't really want anyone's sympathy. I don't mean to suggest that I am blameless, even without the OW/EA. Far from it. I know my role in the past arguments: I spend a lot of time working, which Julie understood but deep down it still bothers her. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the job. All of my colleagues (nationwide) are either workaholics up until the wee hours of the morning, or utterly ineffective. I also don't share all of my feelings with her. Mostly that is to avoid fights, but I know it has lead to a number of issues because she just did not know what I'm thinking. And I have made a host of minor mistakes: bills not paid on time, random purchases (<$50) that I did not "clear" with her ahead of time, hurt feelings from things I should have said or not said, etc. I'm not a choir boy and don't mean to pretend to be one.

 

In addition, I did approach her a couple of weeks ago after the boys went to sleep and told her what she did to piss me off so thoroughly. I even went to the bookstore and bought Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue book (only thing I saw at the time) and asked her to go through it with me. She essentially put her head in the sand and assumed that I would just back down and everything would be back to normal. Hasn't happened yet, and she's finally noticed after all this time. I am not treating Julie with a lot of kindness at the moment, because I really am still fed up. But I'm not trying to be mean, either. When we're together at this point, things are just cold and icy. I'm just trying to be as nonchalant and businesslike as possible without losing my cool when she starts fussing about some other trivial point.

 

She finally agreed to have some counseling sessions which are scheduled to begin in 2 weeks. We'll discuss a lot of things at that time and I'll be completely honest and lay most of my cards on the table - except for the EA. No chance of that coming out unless I wanted to hurt her already fragile self-esteem, and I don't dislike her enough to do that.

 

(And I grilled and cooked the dinner and did the grocery shopping today while she relaxed and watched OWN or something -- I'm not totally dependent or useless!)

[Mr. Lucky]

She finally agreed to have some counseling sessions which are scheduled to begin in 2 weeks. We'll discuss a lot of things at that time and I'll be completely honest and lay most of my cards on the table - except for the EA. No chance of that coming out unless I wanted to hurt her already fragile self-esteem, and I don't dislike her enough to do that.

You're missing the point and ensuring that counseling won't help you. Unless both parties are completely honest, little chance to fix the marriage. And unless you're completely honest, little chance to fix you ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[heartshaped]

I think it comes down to this; either you love your wife and want to fight for your marriage or you don't.

 

The problems in your marriage are minor issues. The EA is a major issue, but you created that yourself and can very well end it at any time. Yes, your wife's flaws may seem major to you, but I'm telling you from an outside prospective, they're minor.

 

You need to be honest with her. Completely honest whether it causes her to leave you, hate you, or hate herself she needs to know the truth about how you feel and what you've done (the EA). That is the only hope that your marriage has.

[todreaminblue]

tellyour wife the reason why a lot of men who are married see whores....is from the refusal of the wife to pleasure her husband other than missionary position... love making positions other than missionary are not the property of whores.....they are the property of a woman who wants to give her husband a little spice so he doesnt have to see the whore and pay for something that a wife should be willing to try.....ps as long as it isnt tie her to the ceiling and egg whisk her private parts while wearing a snorkel................deb(ex whore)

[Robert Z]

Dump her and as soon as possible. Living with a woman like that will ruin you as a person and as a man.

 

I had to hold a gun to my own head before I figured it out... and that was after going over ten years without sex.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Robert Z

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Agent

 

I wrote a long response but lost it.

 

Your affair is tainting your commitment to your marriage and family and your willingness to work through the natural bumps in any long term relationship.

 

Your only hope of not making a horrible mistake is to go NC with your AP and to tell your wife.

 

She needs to know what she is dealing with and decide if she is interested in staying with YOU.

 

Everything you mentioned is normal kinds of stuff and can be worked through, but your limmerance, in your affair is rewriting history and you are turning your wife into an ogre to justify your affair.

 

I imagine your wife knows something is wrong and your behavior has made her insecure, which you are then blaming her for.....you following?

 

I am not saying I think your marriage can or should survive. Thing is, when your kids find out that you left for another woman, all hell will break loose, and you will impact their lives forever.

 

You owe it to your kids, to your wife, and to you to dedicate 100% to determining if you can save it.

 

That requires that you go completely NC with your AP and tell your wife about it.

 

IIWII

[shortee]

It sounds like you dont love your wife anymore and would like to leave her and move on with OW. You talk like MC is pointless and only want the OW. The why string your wife along If you dont want to be with her? Thats not fair to her. You might be alone, but its bu better than what you are doing.

[pteromom]

Yes, there are good things. Believe it or not, she truly loves me very much. She is a great mother. She is a wonderfully caring individual. She is a very supportive person in terms of backing me when I need to change jobs or responsibilities, taking care of the kids/house when I travel, etc. She is also understanding of many of my personality issues (poor budgeting/execution skills, introversion and the need to be alone often, and absorption in my job sometimes). I'd like to think I've been supporting and understanding of her issues as well.

 

On paper and to outside appearances, we're a pretty good couple. I'm sure that almost everyone (other than the few people from whom I've sought advice) would be totally shocked to know what I'm thinking.

 

But I'm just not attracted to the new Julie anymore. Too many fights, too many arguments, far too little and too uninviting sex, two threats to leave, too much water over the bridge. I don't know that I will ever feel the same way again, but I'm not sure you need to feel the same butterflies with the same person after all these years.

 

Just know that with the OW, you may have the physical sparks you might crave, but she may not have ANY of the other attributes your wife has. From everything you have shared, it sounds like your wife is a good person who is suffering from extreme insecurity over her weight gain. This affects sex, her interactions and trust of you, and her overall confidence. You guys NEED to get to therapy somehow, some way. Another option would be convincing her to prioritize her health... you'd have to do it in a way that is encouraging activity together, not in a way where you come across as insulting her.

[JJLA]

...Bottom line is that I'm considering leaving my wife and kids.

...

 

I note how you say you are considering leaving your wife and kids. Do you really want to leave your kids?

[agent.006]

I note how you say you are considering leaving your wife and kids. Do you really want to leave your kids?

 

HELLL NO! Frankly, that is the biggest reason for me to stay. The only saving grace is that they are almost grown and out of the house, so to speak.

[agent.006]

It sounds like you dont love your wife anymore and would like to leave her and move on with OW. You talk like MC is pointless and only want the OW. The why string your wife along If you dont want to be with her? Thats not fair to her. You might be alone, but its bu better than what you are doing.

 

Where did I say that "MC is pointless"? Heck, it was my idea! I don't know what I WANT to do at this point, but that is the point of the counseling. If we cannot come to an understanding about how I'm supposed to be treating her and how she's supposed to be treating me, both of us may come to the same conclusion. Or we may both come to an alternate conclusion. Regardless, it will in all likelihood be a consensus.

 

Just know that with the OW, you may have the physical sparks you might crave, but she may not have ANY of the other attributes your wife has. From everything you have shared, it sounds like your wife is a good person who is suffering from extreme insecurity over her weight gain. This affects sex, her interactions and trust of you, and her overall confidence. You guys NEED to get to therapy somehow, some way. Another option would be convincing her to prioritize her health... you'd have to do it in a way that is encouraging activity together, not in a way where you come across as insulting her.

All true. I've even been encouraging her to walk and have been walking with her, -- but unfortunately some of our biggest fights lately have come when we have gone walking together, because apparently I walk too fast naturally and she thinks I'm (literally) trying to walk away from her. Then, I'm too selfish and not thinking of her. <sigh> Go figure. The good news is that she's down about 10 pounds. Unfortunately, not much else has changed yet. I'm still giving it time.