When is enough, enough?

[agent.006]

Thanks for your advice and suggestions!

 

As info: I haven't completely given up on my marriage, nor have I completely switched to the OW. To be honest, I'm sure she is not going to be there for me regardless, especially since she has a new boyfriend (as of this weekend) and has less time for me now. So the pipe dream has probably busted.

 

That does not change things here at home, despite what some of you may have suggested.

 

So I'll check in later once the final outcome is certain. In the meantime, we are going to counseling and we'll see how that turns out.

 

Thanks again, and so long for now.

[Misadventure]

These two kind of hit it spot on.

 

Maybe not. You might be surprised that once Julie finds out about little Missy....she may kick you out the door straight to the curb and no longer be an option. I would. An emotional affair is just as bad as a physical affair. You are cheating and pining away for a fantasy life with your OW.

 

I'd pack your **** so fast your head would spin!

Go get the greener grass Honey. Bye Bye now!

 

Agent, where is the option where you end the marriage, recognize that every story has two sides, take a long, hard look at yourself and your actions in the marriage and where you contributed to its demise, and you live single, with no dating and prepare to be a better partner in the future?

 

I would have more sympathy for you if you actually had taken the time to approach your wife as 1/2 of this partnership and asked how you can work on it together. You're in deep rationalization mode because of your outside EA. Watching football and thinking of the OW while wifey cooks a big meal for you and your family? Ouch for your wife! There are three people in your marriage now and your wife - however horrific you think she is - is at a disadvantage because you are not being honest with her.

 

There are two people in the marriage. You have turned it into 3. From what it looks like both of you actually married have your faults..leaving the Bible out of it... you did make a commitment when you got married. So ask yourself some questions. What would it take in order to get to a better place with the person you married? BOTH OF YOU would have to work on it. That means counseling, effort, both of you looking at what you want as individuals and what you want as a couple. If there is any chance at salvaging the marriage to the person you committed to, you need to ditch the OW.

 

If you are not capable of doing the above and its not even remotely something that you feel you can do, then you need to be honest with your wife, give her the dignity, the truth, and then be ready to be hung out to dry for going outside the marriage and not honoring your commitment.

 

If you are genuine in wanting to mix things up with your wife and get her attention in a positive way.. then switch it up. Do the unexpected.

 

Simple example... have a picnic in the park already planned and ready..wine..cheese. some of her favorite fruit..heck, make sangria. Then get a babysitter or w/e.. have a friend watch your picnic while you go collect your wife...BLINDFOLD her... do not accept no. I am assuming this is something you don't do or haven't done.. so she will be somewhat taken back..surprised.. and its not predictable. She will probably feel silly at first but tell her you wanted to do something for her because you "remember" how special she is. Compliment her. Not just "you look nice"..but something specific.. "I like the way you are wearing your hair like this today..." or "Are those shoes or shorts new, they bring out the nice curvature of your legs".

 

Then you get there...you take off her blindfold and show her the picnic, and you give her one simple flower. Not a rose. Something different, a sunflower, a daffodil, something that is not mainstream.

 

You sit, relax, and she will probably be surprised and kind of clueless on what to say, after all, its not like you do this everyday or have not for her..Then enjoy and talk. Do NOT talk about the relationship, kids, sex (lack of) or family matters. Talk as if you were on some 5th date... when you were still interested in HER interests. What movies has she been watching? Books been reading? Before you go on this picnic, find out and start reading or watching so you have some things to talk about except the mundane. Even if you are only one talking for a while, she will join in.. once you have laid the "hook". One reason you all may be so bored with each other is because no drive to lay this hook anymore...after all, you have been together so long, surely you know everything there is to know about the other, their thoughts, secrets... it never changed...right? No...you know it has. If you are serious, start dating... your wife.

 

And if you use this nice picnic idea which is always a sure fun (and 9/10 will always have some romance later) on someone other than your wife.. karma will land your appendage in the blender and call me to press frappe. Just saying.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Misadventure

[JJLA]

Good, I was concerned about the leaving the kids comment.

 

Many times people stay in bad relationships because of children. you have to remember that a marriage can end, but it does not have to end a family.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Where did I say that "MC is pointless"? Heck, it was my idea! I don't know what I WANT to do at this point, but that is the point of the counseling. If we cannot come to an understanding about how I'm supposed to be treating her and how she's supposed to be treating me, both of us may come to the same conclusion. Or we may both come to an alternate conclusion. Regardless, it will in all likelihood be a consensus.

 

I am not excusing her flaws or yours, I just want to mention the religious counseling. You can be open to the counselor that you are an arms length guy so that they do not focus on religion as much. But go in to it with an open mind.

 

 

All true. I've even been encouraging her to walk and have been walking with her, -- but unfortunately some of our biggest fights lately have come when we have gone walking together, because apparently I walk too fast naturally and she thinks I'm (literally) trying to walk away from her. Then, I'm too selfish and not thinking of her. <sigh> Go figure. The good news is that she's down about 10 pounds. Unfortunately, not much else has changed yet. I'm still giving it time.

 

Just an FYI, as a chubby girl myself, I am going to give you some insight. If you truly want to support her getting healthy then you need to support her. So if walking, walk at her pace. The pace of someone who is carrying around a ton of extra weight. Don't just give lip service to "helping" -- diet with her, exercise with her. Tell her you want her to be around for your children and their children and work with her.

 

 

Lastly, I re-read the thread and want to mention something again. Some of the insecurity and unhappiness your wife is displaying, especially the recent, is likely a result of your affair behavior.

 

You are most likely acting and behaving different and she cannot quite put her finger on what is wrong.

 

You cannot have a good marriage and an affair. There are a couple people here who will claim they can, but it's not true.

 

If you are not all in ("when is enough enough") then do your wife a favor and tell her about the affair and get a divorce.

 

If you want to give your marriage a shot you have to put 100% into the marriage and stop all contact with AP (NC), anything less is doomed for failure and why put off the inevitable?

 

IIWII

[GorillaTheater]

Thanks for your advice and suggestions!

 

As info: I haven't completely given up on my marriage, nor have I completely switched to the OW. To be honest, I'm sure she is not going to be there for me regardless, especially since she has a new boyfriend (as of this weekend) and has less time for me now. So the pipe dream has probably busted.

 

That does not change things here at home, despite what some of you may have suggested.

 

So I'll check in later once the final outcome is certain. In the meantime, we are going to counseling and we'll see how that turns out.

 

Thanks again, and so long for now.

 

This is good news, the OW getting a boyfriend and (largely) out of your life. Good news for you, I mean. Even better if she was out of your life entirely. And not so much for the moral aspects (though that's certainly a part of it) as it is for your clarity, at least in a month or two after the endorphins have filtered out of your system.

 

Your marriage may not have what it takes to survive. And while sad, ultimately it's okay. Personally, I'm still trying to figure out if MY marriage has what it takes to survive. But it's very important that you have the clarity of mind to reason through the situation and make the best call without the weight of an OW on your mind and heart.

 

Good luck, Agent. I hope counseling helps you arrive at resolution. One way or the other.

[agent.006]

I am not excusing her flaws or yours, I just want to mention the religious counseling. You can be open to the counselor that you are an arms length guy so that they do not focus on religion as much. But go in to it with an open mind.

That's the plan, which isn't difficult as I actually haven't made up my mind yet. Not really close.

 

Lastly, I re-read the thread and want to mention something again. Some of the insecurity and unhappiness your wife is displaying, especially the recent, is likely a result of your affair behavior.

 

You are most likely acting and behaving different and she cannot quite put her finger on what is wrong.

{...snip...}

IIWII

Thanks for your suggestions. Subtle point of clarification: The EA was not first. The insecurity and unhappiness has been around for years. Yes, it has intensified lately, but even that was after the EA grew deeper. I don't claim that I'm blameless, but that isn't it.

[agent.006]

And if you use this nice picnic idea which is always a sure fun (and 9/10 will always have some romance later) on someone other than your wife.. karma will land your appendage in the blender and call me to press frappe. Just saying.

 

Not to dismiss the rest of your well-written post, but this last line made me laugh. Well-played, madam!

[It-is-what-it-is.]

That's the plan, which isn't difficult as I actually haven't made up my mind yet. Not really close.

 

 

Thanks for your suggestions. Subtle point of clarification: The EA was not first. The insecurity and unhappiness has been around for years. Yes, it has intensified lately, but even that was after the EA grew deeper. I don't claim that I'm blameless, but that isn't it.

 

You really need to sit an ponder this answerAagent.

 

Your wife is seemingly insecure and unhappy.

 

At some point you begin to turn to another woman, who you have known and been friends with for 10 years if I remember correctly.

 

Your behavior changes (cheaters always claim this is not true, but it always IS true)

 

It starts the cycle of crazy making. She's insecure, you are distant, she's more insecure you are more distant...rinse repeat.

 

One more thing. It is a huge huge huge betrayal to talk to your OW about your wife and marriage. HUGE.

 

Think about it. Don't dismiss the words, let them ruminate.

 

IIWII

[agent.006]

After careful reflection, sober thought, and a bunch of days of counseling (both individual and couples), I have decided that divorce is the best of the options that I can control. Since this thread began, my wife has accused me of wanting to shoot her and trying to poison her, she has accused me of having multiple affairs with people that I could not possibly have had an affair with (both women and men), and vowed never to let me go under any circumstances. I really don't feel threatened, but this new turn of events is not conducive to reconciliation. I don't think I can ever find a way to really feel passion or emotions for her again, because I just don't trust her anymore.

 

I know, I know: I brought all of this on with my distance and changes. However it worked out, it really is what it is and I no longer feel like being married.

 

So now what? I really don't like being alone, but that is where I will be. Stuck in a small city with no prospects of finding anyone else, but unable to leave due to my job and my kids. This will not be a good solution no matter what happens. A part of me wishes I had never started down this road, but another part of me says that now I see reality for what it really is, even if it stinks.

 

To other guys out there, beware of the old adage: "Be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it!"

[RightThere]

You sound as though you'd rather put your head back up your a$$ and continue on with the life you were already unhappy with.

 

Don't doom your new life by looking at all the negative already. You have a chance to make this one how you want it. Your old marriage was toxic and although you know it, you don't seem to accept it.

 

Hopefully that will come with some time. But don't think for a second you are worse off knowing what you know now. The old life you knew nothing so it wasn't even what you though it was.

[TaraMaiden]

After careful reflection, sober thought, and a bunch of days of counseling (both individual and couples), I have decided that divorce is the best of the options that I can control......

 

So now what? I really don't like being alone, but that is where I will be. Stuck in a small city with no prospects of finding anyone else,......A part of me wishes I had never started down this road, but another part of me says that now I see reality for what it really is, even if it stinks.

 

Your problem is that you equate 'being alone' with 'being lonely'.

 

In truth, yes, there is an essence of loneliness, because you're going through the process of breaking a long-term habit of someone else always being in the picture.

 

But it need not be manifest, and it certainly doesn't ever need to be permanent.

 

You are focusing on the downside of being single again, yet forgetting that by being single, you are your own Master;

 

You are free to come and go as you wish, without having to consider someone else's plans, or convenience.

You can do things just for yourself, without having to play in another person's wishes.

You can date, go out for a meal, go to the cinema, gym, park or seaside, without having to factor in someone else's whims.

Sightseeing, art galleries, cross-country trips or merely going out for a drive to see where the car takes you, are real and plentiful options.

you can eat pizza in bed, scratch your balls in the kitchen, eat, drink and watch whatever you want.

Get takeaways, or sit in the local bar, play pool, talk about anything you want, without watch-watching.

"Gee, guys, I gotta get back....." Disappears out of the window.

 

Look after yourself.

I'm in my mid/late 50's, and got re-married a couple of years ago.

I'm living my life - I would suggest you're very well equipped to do the same....

[Mr. Lucky]

Since this thread began, my wife has accused me of wanting to shoot her and trying to poison her, she has accused me of having multiple affairs with people that I could not possibly have had an affair with (both women and men), and vowed never to let me go under any circumstances.

 

You're going for full custody, right? She sounds at best troubled, at worst mentally ill. Is she getting help?

 

Mr. Lucky

[strive]

You're going for divorce? Good.

 

You have a lot of (minor) problems--years of it, in fact--and allowed your EA to be the last straw. You're being selfish and all I read here is me me me me me. You're willing to break up your family. And then you backpedaled when you realized the OW has a boyfriend and probably subconsciously thought of your wife as the backup plan. You try to "fix" your marriage, but your heart isn't in it. You go through the motions because it's the right thing to do.

 

It's good you're divorcing her. It's even better that you'll be alone after so you can work on all your personal issues (that you don't seem to see--or refuse to see?)

 

Right now you fear the prospect of being alone and will probably jump quickly on a rebound relationship. It'll still be a ****ty relationship eventually if you don't go and fix your own personality problems. But at least you'll realize that it's YOU not her/them.

 

Oh, and I'm happy for your wife. She was awesome before you came along. She will be awesome again after you leave.

[agent.006]

You're going for divorce? Good.

 

You have a lot of (minor) problems--years of it, in fact--and allowed your EA to be the last straw. You're being selfish and all I read here is me me me me me. You're willing to break up your family. And then you backpedaled when you realized the OW has a boyfriend and probably subconsciously thought of your wife as the backup plan. You try to "fix" your marriage, but your heart isn't in it. You go through the motions because it's the right thing to do.

 

It's good you're divorcing her. It's even better that you'll be alone after so you can work on all your personal issues (that you don't seem to see--or refuse to see?)

 

Right now you fear the prospect of being alone and will probably jump quickly on a rebound relationship. It'll still be a ****ty relationship eventually if you don't go and fix your own personality problems. But at least you'll realize that it's YOU not her/them.

 

Oh, and I'm happy for your wife. She was awesome before you came along. She will be awesome again after you leave.

 

Thanks, Strive. Mostly true, unfortunately. Nowhere did I say that I had no blame in it. Far from it. In fact, I accept most of my personal issues and am working with an individual counselor to get through them. However, even if I have changed and the issues are in fact mine to bear, they are still significant issues. I refuse to put up with the aggression and the attacks and such. Frankly, I'm not so sure why so many people seem to think I should continue to sit on my hands and say nothing while this crap continues? I did make a mistake with the OW (but not as big of a mistake as I could have made), and that I will have to live with. But I don't believe this is not the way I have to live.

 

I'm really hoping to be happy for my wife as well, and hope she continues to be awesome, or even more awesomer (pardon the grammar) than before.

[strive]

I refuse to put up with the aggression and the attacks and such. Frankly, I'm not so sure why so many people seem to think I should continue to sit on my hands and say nothing while this crap continues? I did make a mistake with the OW (but not as big of a mistake as I could have made), and that I will have to live with. But I don't believe this is not the way I have to live.

 

It's true, nobody should take crap like that.

 

But for me, it's because you never seem to show any remorse for making your wife go through that much hurt. She's unhappy and she hurt you. Then you hurt her. Then she hurt you even more. It's a vicious cycle and it has to stop somewhere. Even now you're trying to make excuses by saying "not as big of a mistake as I could have made."

 

You have EVERY RIGHT to pursue your own happiness. Just remember not to trample on other people while getting there. I'd love to see one of your posts again once you're a changed man. Send us a success story!