You haven't washed his underwear!

[GreySkyMorning]

I never understood the whole concept of "its not a real relationship, its just fantasy, because you only see the good in each other, you haven't done his laundry, or paid bills, or took care of sick kids, or blah blah blah". My ex-husband, of a 14 yr marriage, and I had never done any of those things before we got married either. Pretty sure my parents that were married most of their adult lives didn't either....or my grandparents.

 

So any relationship that hasn't included those things must be fantasy? Can't be real love? Isn't a real relationship?

[Sarabi]

I never understood the whole concept of "its not a real relationship, its just fantasy, because you only see the good in each other, you haven't done his laundry, or paid bills, or took care of sick kids, or blah blah blah". My ex-husband, of a 14 yr marriage, and I had never done any of those things before we got married either. Pretty sure my parents that were married most of their adult lives didn't either....or my grandparents.

 

So any relationship that hasn't included those things must be fantasy? Can't be real love? Isn't a real relationship?

 

Hmmmm...how does this apply to those who are married...&:

 

*Don't look after their kids because they have nannies or send them to boarding school

*Don't do laundry or cleaning because they have maids/housekeepers to do it for them

*Don't pay bills/or handle finances because the accountant or the husband sorts out all the money things in the house...?

 

Bear in mind that there are women and men in relationships who don't even do these things properly anyway, even when they don't have nannies or housekeepers..

[almond]

I think you're both missing the point. When people mention these things you have listed, they are trying to illustrate the bigger picture.

 

Cooking, cleaning, washing, raising kids, mutual financial struggles etc. - all of these things are an inescapable part of reality. And reality can sometimes be stressful and monotonous. A committed, exclusive couple must weather these things together - they will either come out stronger upon facing life's stress together, or they will crumble. This doesn't come into play in most affairs, and this is why we so often hear: "your affair is not a real relationship."

 

Now, it seems as though you ladies are the thing they turn to in order to escape this reality. They like who they are with you. They like how they feel. The escape from life and it's mundane responsibilities and obligations. A love affair is very different from a long-term, marriage-like relationship. It may feel like reality, but it is not. Well, not in the context that I'm reffering to anyway. The secrecy of the affair adds to the excitement, the emotions, the chemicals being released, the "connection" etc. - these are things that keep the both of you coming back. These are the things that have you bending your morals, and doing things you never thought you would. It is almost like an extended version of the honeymoon period that a lot of couples go through.

 

Regardless, a bond grows between people that are living life alongside each other in a marriage/committed relationship. A connection, an attachment. Going through the ebb and the flow, the ups and the downs together. And until you've experienced this and stabilised your relationship, then IMO, you really just don't know where you stand.

[maidai]

Well I certainly did and it made no difference whatsoever I was not the classic OW. He had been seperated nearly 2 years when we met and we were openly together for 18mnths having nothing but good times as far as I was concerned. I certainly did his laundry, helped out with his bills by loaning him money if needed and spent plenty of time out and about on day trips and picnics etc with all 5 of his children but 1 especially. I held her when she cried, I calmed her when she had a tantrum and he could not handle her, I held her when she was sick. He still went back to the wife 2 weeks ago 3 years down the line. So yes it was a proper relationship and yes he still screwed me over and treated me appallingly leaving with no explanation.

 

Sometimes it does not matter what you do. It does not matter how together you think you are or what life you think you are leading together, if its going to go pop in your face its going to go pop in your face. I have learnt the hard way x

[scatterd]

I never understood the whole concept of "its not a real relationship, its just fantasy, because you only see the good in each other, you haven't done his laundry, or paid bills, or took care of sick kids, or blah blah blah". My ex-husband, of a 14 yr marriage, and I had never done any of those things before we got married either. Pretty sure my parents that were married most of their adult lives didn't either....or my grandparents.

 

So any relationship that hasn't included those things must be fantasy? Can't be real love? Isn't a real relationship?

 

Read this it may help you understand why people say this.I was trying to write it but its early and my words were not coming out right.lol

Love Affair with a Married Man

 

[scatterd]

I am glad others are more alert this mourning.

[almond]

Well I certainly did and it made no difference whatsoever I was not the classic OW. He had been seperated nearly 2 years when we met and we were openly together for 18mnths having nothing but good times as far as I was concerned. I certainly did his laundry, helped out with his bills by loaning him money if needed and spent plenty of time out and about on day trips and picnics etc with all 5 of his children but 1 especially. I held her when she cried, I calmed her when she had a tantrum and he could not handle her, I held her when she was sick. He still went back to the wife 2 weeks ago 3 years down the line. So yes it was a proper relationship and yes he still screwed me over and treated me appallingly leaving with no explanation.

 

Sometimes it does not matter what you do. It does not matter how together you think you are or what life you think you are leading together, if its going to go pop in your face its going to go pop in your face. I have learnt the hard way x

 

I'm sorry that you went through this, it must have been hard

 

I suppose this highlights an additional element - by engaging in an affair, the two parties prove to each other that they are capable of infidelity and dishonesty (or at least contributing to it). This hardly lays a solid foundation for a trusting relationship.

[maidai]

I'm sorry that you went through this, it must have been hard

 

I suppose this highlights an additional element - by engaging in an affair, the two parties prove to each other that they are capable of infidelity and dishonesty (or at least contributing to it). This hardly lays a solid foundation for a trusting relationship.

 

Thanks Almond. It was hard for the first few days but I feel I dodged a massive bullet. He and his wife as far as they were concerned were finished done business. They actually re united on the day of the divorce and I have no doubts that until the shock factor hit neither were thinking reconcilliation. His wife is a controlling women, he suffered verbal, mental and physical abuse at her hands for the whole relationship causing a serious breakdown. I think she panicked realising he was about to be free to commit to me and went all out. I would possibly have been harder had it been someone new or fresh who I thought could make him happier than I did. Knowing what he has gone back to and the fact that the euphoria of it all will wear off quickly for both gives me a little bit more inner peace. I have gone no contact from the second I found out it was her and intend to stay that way for the rest of my life. If it breaks now it breaks and he has lost someone I know he loved deeply and who cared for him more than anyone before. I am capable of finding that again. I dont think he will be if this breaks again. I thought he had recovered from the damage of the M and the past abuse but he has proved he hasnt not at all.

[GreySkyMorning]

I am glad others are more alert this mourning.

I've been awake all night at work. I will be far less than coherent in about 30 minutes. Lol. I'll read your link when I wake up.

[Got it]

I think you're both missing the point. When people mention these things you have listed, they are trying to illustrate the bigger picture.

 

Cooking, cleaning, washing, raising kids, mutual financial struggles etc. - all of these things are an inescapable part of reality. And reality can sometimes be stressful and monotonous. A committed, exclusive couple must weather these things together - they will either come out stronger upon facing life's stress together, or they will crumble. This doesn't come into play in most affairs, and this is why we so often hear: "your affair is not a real relationship."

 

Now, it seems as though you ladies are the thing they turn to in order to escape this reality. They like who they are with you. They like how they feel. The escape from life and it's mundane responsibilities and obligations. A love affair is very different from a long-term, marriage-like relationship. It may feel like reality, but it is not. Well, not in the context that I'm reffering to anyway. The secrecy of the affair adds to the excitement, the emotions, the chemicals being released, the "connection" etc. - these are things that keep the both of you coming back. These are the things that have you bending your morals, and doing things you never thought you would. It is almost like an extended version of the honeymoon period that a lot of couples go through.

 

Regardless, a bond grows between people that are living life alongside each other in a marriage/committed relationship. A connection, an attachment. Going through the ebb and the flow, the ups and the downs together. And until you've experienced this and stabilised your relationship, then IMO, you really just don't know where you stand.

 

So based on this a dating relationships would be fantasy. Or a newly formed marriage? Or a long distance relationship? Or a child free relationship?

 

And I can say that in the affair we did wash each others clothes, he did clean my place, we cooked together, and we were involved in each others financial concerns, discussions, etc. more so than he was with his wife.

 

I am sorry but these perimeters just don't cut it. You can find all of the above in certain affairs, they are still affairs, but they would meet said requirements.

 

Like the OP I don't understand this need to define them like this.

 

A side chuckle, I probably washed more of his clothes in the affair than married because we do not like the way the other person does it and so do our own laundry. I swear the man does not understand that not everything can go in the dryer!!!

[fanine]

So based on this a dating relationships would be fantasy. Or a newly formed marriage? Or a long distance relationship? Or a child free relationship?

 

And I can say that in the affair we did wash each others clothes, he did clean my place, we cooked together, and we were involved in each others financial concerns, discussions, etc. more so than he was with his wife.

 

I am sorry but these perimeters just don't cut it. You can find all of the above in certain affairs, they are still affairs, but they would meet said requirements.

 

Like the OP I don't understand this need to define them like this.

 

A side chuckle, I probably washed more of his clothes in the affair than married because we do not like the way the other person does it and so do our own laundry. I swear the man does not understand that not everything can go in the dryer!!!

 

I guess it depends on the individual situation. In mine, my place was a haven for my xMM. I didn't do his washing or get involved with anything financial. I didn't have to nag him about paying bills etc. my fault I know but when he was at my place I would cook his favourite food, buy his favourite drinks, we would go to bed in the afternoon...it was a fantasy world away from the humdrum of his life at home with 2 screaming kids and a wife who naturally needed him to do things around the house.

[fanine]

Yes it is true in any relationship before you move in together you don't have to deal with the humdrum side of life. For an OW or OM though that has no one else, we are not escaping the humdrum as we do not have it with someone else. But the other person involved does. So they have two different relationships running side by side which are very different. When they are with the OW or OM it is essentially an escape from all that.

Each situation is different I agree, but I know my place was a safe haven as such for my xMM. He could chill out, have his favourite food, do exactly what he wanted really. No screaming kids etc....he could compartamentalise both worlds very well. But the world with me was far more of a fantasy one.

[almond]

So based on this a dating relationships would be fantasy. Or a newly formed marriage? Or a long distance relationship? Or a child free relationship?

 

No, because in a new marriage or dating relationship, the partner is (generally) not living a whole other life while you're hanging on, waiting, wondering whether you have a future or not, and whether he will ever be able to commit and put you first 100%.

 

In an affair, they are living a double life. And in this other life of theirs, you do not exist. You are locked out of a significant part of your partner's existence. They make room for you when they please.

[GreySkyMorning]

So based on this a dating relationships would be fantasy. Or a newly formed marriage? Or a long distance relationship? Or a child free relationship?

 

And I can say that in the affair we did wash each others clothes, he did clean my place, we cooked together, and we were involved in each others financial concerns, discussions, etc. more so than he was with his wife.

 

I am sorry but these perimeters just don't cut it. You can find all of the above in certain affairs, they are still affairs, but they would meet said requirements.

 

Like the OP I don't understand this need to define them like this.

 

A side chuckle, I probably washed more of his clothes in the affair than married because we do not like the way the other person does it and so do our own laundry. I swear the man does not understand that not everything can go in the dryer!!!

 

This is exactly what I'm saying. At what point then does a relationship become real? After a year? Two years? The second kid? The picket fence? When is enough invested to make it actual love or whatever you want to call it? So if I start dating a single guy, can I only consider us invested after I see the skidmarks?

[fanine]

This is exactly what I'm saying. At what point then does a relationship become real? After a year? Two years? The second kid? The picket fence? When is enough invested to make it actual love or whatever you want to call it? So if I start dating a single guy, can I only consider us invested after I see the skidmarks?

 

Think about normal relationships you have had in the past. The dynamic is very different. If you are both committed to each other and no one else then you are both invested in it. If either of you is involved with another person then that person cannot give 100 percent. They have to give something to the other person.

I never thought about it with my ex husband. It just happened. We met, we got close, we became exclusive. We talked of a home together, after 6 months we did that. I never consciously thought oh is he invested in me. I could just see it as part of the natural progression of life with another partner.

[MissBee]

I agree with the poster about the point being missed.

 

For me, I would use the language limited relationship instead of real or not real.

 

Dating long distance, online dating for years without meeting face to face, affairs, are often limited in their capacity and by nature will look different from a situation where one's relationship is less compartmentalized, open and day to to day.

 

I mentioned in another thread that lots of affairs are like test-tube relationships, and so are some LDRs, in that while they are real, they are often conducted in an atypical kind of situation, where the conditions resemble life but some elements are different and in that "lab environment" it of course seems fine, but the truth is, unless taken from the test tube and given actual true to life conditions, you don't know how it will fare.

 

So real or not real isn't my distinction but limited capacity is, and other non-A relationships which may include atypical conditions, like lots of distance or logistics which make it more compartmentalized can make it difficult for a couple to have a holistic picture. I think the washing underwear statement is less literal but more so shorthand for the idea that a compartmentalized relationship exists in test conditions of sorts, and until one has the chance to be fully integrated you simply don't know some things....and the main difference with new marriages, dating, etc. is that the capacity is generally not limited because of the freedom of openness and living together, which provides for a chance at full integration and more viewing angles.

Edited August 20, 2013 by MissBee

[sweet_pea]

I don't really get what's not to understand. An affair usually doesn't include all of those things like washing clothes/dishes, paying bills, running after kids, etc. An affair is pretty much an escape and fantasy-- not having to deal with ^ those things. You get all of the good and deal with none of the time consuming, mundane, bad things.

 

I mean... many LDR relationships and "plain" relationships end all of the time because once put into the actual 'game' (so to speak) with a mixture of fantasy and non-fun, it fizzles out. That's why people advise you to live with your SO before marriage, to see how it's like. To see if it'll work out, etc.

[So happy together]

So based on this a dating relationships would be fantasy. Or a newly formed marriage? Or a long distance relationship? Or a child free relationship?

 

And I can say that in the affair we did wash each others clothes, he did clean my place, we cooked together, and we were involved in each others financial concerns, discussions, etc. more so than he was with his wife.

 

I am sorry but these perimeters just don't cut it. You can find all of the above in certain affairs, they are still affairs, but they would meet said requirements.

 

Like the OP I don't understand this need to define them like this.

 

A side chuckle, I probably washed more of his clothes in the affair than married because we do not like the way the other person does it and so do our own laundry. I swear the man does not understand that not everything can go in the dryer!!!

 

Thank you for saying this! I was going to say the same.

 

The LD thing, I get my a** kicked on here all the time with BS's saying "Well, you don't know what he's doing" or "have fun on Skype". They've no idea my R is probably MORE real than most marriages. Of course when I get told that I laugh, because I know him better than his wife ever did.

[waterwoman]

I guess the point is the comparison. On one side the marriage/kids/bill/undercrackers to wash (as the op mentioned them!); on the other side romance/freedom/uninterrupted sex. Old v new. if there wasn't a comparison it would just be a new relationship.

[MissBee]

I don't really get what's not to understand. An affair usually doesn't include all of those things like washing clothes/dishes, paying bills, running after kids, etc. An affair is pretty much an escape and fantasy-- not having to deal with ^ those things. You get all of the good and deal with none of the time consuming, mundane, bad things.

 

I mean... many LDR relationships and "plain" relationships end all of the time because once put into the actual 'game' (so to speak) with a mixture of fantasy and non-fun, it fizzles out. That's why people advise you to live with your SO before marriage, to see how it's like. To see if it'll work out, etc.[b/]

 

Yep.

 

It's not limited to affairs, but affairs are just one kind of limited relationship which doesn't allow for the full picture. I read an article about some relationships being more about the romance and not a relationship. It made lots of sense. Romance was the feelings of emotional closeness, sex, dates, trips etc while the relationship is about a partnership beyond just those kinds of things...and reading it many single relationships are only about romance but cannot go the distance, likewise many affairs are predominantly that way esp because of the obvious limitations against building a life.

[So happy together]

Affairs are built on lies and deceit-

I will be the first to admit my marriage was not real while my husband was having an affair-a real relationship is authentic and honest-

You can spin your affair any way you wish but stats say that when found out you will not be the one chosen-you can spin that too if you wish and say its because of this or that-but in the end, you are not important enough to the other person to have an authentic and honest relationship with-if you want to settle for that, fine, but stop trying to rationalize it, stop trying to make it out to be more than it is-its an affair and its not good for anyone involved-read all these threads of those that have been left behind-the pain is awful, the regret, the self loathing-is that what you want for yourself? Come on, my bet is most of you are better and deserve more than that-

 

I hear this spouted over and over and while it may be true for some, a lot of us do not feel this way. I don't feel my R was built on lies OR deceit.

 

And for any stats you give, I'll give you others that tell you the opposite.

 

I live a full and loving relationship. I spend more time with my bf than most wives. I know him better. I'm a little sick of hearing this to make everyone 'else' feel better.

 

So really, anyone in a R, if you are happy, what else matters?

[Got it]

Gaah! Why are we having a real/not real discussion again? There is a thread already based on this.

 

This idea of real is just mindboggling for me. It is real. The actions are real. Not real is something that actually hasn't happened, a figment of the imagination, a person whom doesn't actually exist as in completely made up. That is fantasy.

 

The rest of this is just subjective. No you may not agree, you may not like you may feel it is limited or not legitimate but it is actually real, i.e. it actually happened.

 

And affairs are not necessarily built on lies and deceit. We did not lie to each other. Now it may have been built on the back of his marriage but it was not based on deceit between the two of us.

[jlola]

I don't really get what's not to understand. An affair usually doesn't include all of those things like washing clothes/dishes, paying bills, running after kids, etc. An affair is pretty much an escape and fantasy-- not having to deal with ^ those things. You get all of the good and deal with none of the time consuming, mundane, bad things.

 

I mean... many LDR relationships and "plain" relationships end all of the time because once put into the actual 'game' (so to speak) with a mixture of fantasy and non-fun, it fizzles out. That's why people advise you to live with your SO before marriage, to see how it's like. To see if it'll work out, etc.

 

One of my cousins at 19 eloped a few months back. We all found out on facebook. She and the boy had been dating 2 years. . They are in "love". He is perfect, she is perfect. My aunt was heartbroken. But she says she will not interfere. My cousin also had a secret. She is pregnant.

 

As her family, we all know this situation will be her wake up call. His parents are allowing them to live at their home. But the cracks of "perfect love" are starting to show as stress and real life intervenes. She has called my aunt a few times to complain. But my aunt now tells her "it is her business" and a marriage is between two people. Getting your in-laws or friends involved in your problems should be avoided.

 

My aunt has said she is going to allow her daughter the consequences of her actions and stay on the sideline. Since no matter how much advice she has given her in the past about the reality of relationships and children it was not taken. They knew better. they are different than any statistic. We will see. I do wish them luck. But after 2 years of dating,she is just now seeing the "boy" has a temper" and can get into quite some arguments with his parents. The stress also has him snapping at my cousin. Something he has never done before.

[Got it]

Affairs are built on lies and deceit-

I will be the first to admit my marriage was not real while my husband was having an affair-a real relationship is authentic and honest-

You can spin your affair any way you wish but stats say that when found out you will not be the one chosen-you can spin that too if you wish and say its because of this or that-but in the end, you are not important enough to the other person to have an authentic and honest relationship with-if you want to settle for that, fine, but stop trying to rationalize it, stop trying to make it out to be more than it is-its an affair and its not good for anyone involved-read all these threads of those that have been left behind-the pain is awful, the regret, the self loathing-is that what you want for yourself? Come on, my bet is most of you are better and deserve more than that-

 

Yes it was real. You were actually married. It may have been crappy and he may have been a sh%t but it was real. Just not a happy or healthy state.

 

And the second bolded, I say this with far more respect, but please speak for yourself. It was not a competition. And I was "chosen". For whatever hooey that means.

[So happy together]

And the second bolded, I say this with far more respect, but please speak for yourself. It was not a competition. And I was "chosen". For whatever hooey that means.

 

 

I am speaking based on 'stats' as plainly written out- and no its not a competition but when found out the WS needs to make a choice and in the majority of cases it is not the AP- read the freakin board-broken women all over the place that were so sure "he loved me" what we had was "real love" only to be tossed aside when found out-thats the point-you have a huge chance of getting seriously hurt if you believe an affair will lead to a long term, healthy relationship- don't give these women false hope that their AP is doing right by them and that affairs are good for them-tell it like it is-in the majority of cases its not good for anyone involved-everyone ends up less than and damaged-its a load of junk and its a dangerous concept-demand more for yourself regardless of who you are in the triangle- demand authenticity and protect yourself-period-

 

I don't disagree with protecting yourself. I do object to stats, of which there are many, all of them differing. The secrecy of affairs makes it impossible to determine anything. Even the stat of people who have happy R's after an affair are skewed because a lot of people try to move forward and wouldn't admit to their R beginning in an affair.

 

My R is healthy. And while I agree some of the R's on this forum cause pain, there are a lot of people not on this forum that are happy in their R post affair and don't feel the need to post here.

 

As for me, you can say what you like the the A was the best freakin' thing that ever happened to my boyfriend. It wasn't easy, but it gave him the courage to break the chains of an unhappy union. I'm sure I can't be the ONLY one.

 

Have a good one.