You haven't washed his underwear!

[Red Wolverine]

We do not come to this forum to be contrite! We are here to support one another in our time of need, or to give support if we are not in need of it. Trust me, the last thing I am is whiny. Perhaps if we weren't being attacked constantly we would whine less? Or better, if you don't like hearing a bunch of whining, hang out where there is less of it?

 

With all due respect, you can't speak for every fOW. I am very contrite yet supportive of every side here.

 

In my experience, defensiveness comes from fear. In any part of life, those who are comfortable and take ownership for their actions don't feel defensive. They are confident with their choices, regardless of anyone else's opinion.

 

Just a thought.

[anne1707]

lol, it means she is both a betrayed and wayward spouse.

 

Actually so am I. My H did have a brief affair a few years before mine which I have mentioned in posts. But I see myself as more the WS because my affair was so much longer and damaging and that is why I came to LS

[Sarabi]

lol, it means she is both a betrayed and wayward spouse.

 

Ok cool, interesting term. I wonder who coined it...

Anyway, thanks for clarifying

[fanine]

You misunderstand. The original poster gave a description of an affair. That description could apply to other relationships. I am not that stupid or naive to gauge my behaviour on the worst. Please...

 

 

Nope, I totally understood and my reasoning still stands-the rationalization is too much-we should gauge who we are and what we do on what is best, not worst or even not as bad as....its a little ill in my book-

 

Well think what you may, but from this response I see you don't understand what my point was. I do gauge whom I am on what is best. I have broken away from a toxic relationship.

 

For any of us here, unless we have been involved in every possible scenario, it is impossible to truly know how it feels either to be in an A or to have our partner being involved in an affair. I don't judge anyone here for their situation any more.

 

I can imagine what it must feel like if a partner went astray, but I can't feel it. It has never happened to me. I know what it's like to be in an unhappy marriage. I ended mine because I could feel that I might be tempted elsewhere, I had an emptiness. I did not want to end up involving someone else in my situation, I did not want to end up hurting my husband. I tried working it out with him but we couldn't so we went our separate ways. I then spent time alone.

 

I'm 44. I did not in a million years think I would get involved with a MM. I always thought OW were basically slappers, with no morals. I know that is not me. I have morals, i am a good hardworking person,who has spent their life trying to do their best, for me and anyone i care about. Maybe that was my problem with MM. I thought I could help him with his depression, the unhappiness he said he had in his life. He would say he could not imagine living without me. I'm a helper, a giver and in a twisted way it was hard for me to just abandon him before now because I did not want to cause him hurt or pain. Yep it's stupid, but that is because Imdo,care,very much about people.

 

Okay in my situation he was separated when we met, but he went back to his wife after 8 months. Yes I know I should have just said bye bye and ignored all his efforts to contact me. But I didn't. Do you think I feel great about that? No. But I do throughout strive to be the best person I can, and learn from sad mistakes.

[thefooloftheyear]

With all due respect, you can't speak for every fOW. I am very contrite yet supportive of every side here.

 

In my experience, defensiveness comes from fear. In any part of life, those who are comfortable and take ownership for their actions don't feel defensive. They are confident with their choices, regardless of anyone else's opinion.

 

Just a thought.

 

VERY well said, RW...

 

TFY

[truthbetold]

I would think murder, torture, rape, child abuse...etc., etc. would be more sadistic and malicious, but I guess it depends on who you ask.

 

Now who's taking pot shots? Point is, see what I mean, it's okay for you to say that, but not okay for someone else to post their "truth". Because this is somehow perceived as a sanctified section of LS. Guess what? It's not.

 

I find it interesting because as little as I do come by there's always one of these "we need our own protected board" cries from the OW. Have you been to the dating side? Better wear helmets and protective gear. Think some of the "daters" aren't in pain? Yet they still have the passing comment that doesn't align with theirs thrown out there. You see how you can't minimize their pain either (fairly) but somehow want Switzerland declared over here.

 

Seriously this is the only section of LS that I've ever seen the occasional newbies pop by demanding why LS is like this. It's an OPEN forum, it's not going to change. As it has been pointed out, there were protected forums out there but they all apparently went up in smoke or they wouldn't keep coming back demanding LS to change. It's insulting the way some of you assume some OW can't handle some open honest dialogue and instead need coddling. I give them more credit than that, I might not agree with their choices but they are people first. Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that.

 

If you don't agree with it, move on. Why is it life and death for people, strangers to agree with your POV? It's not going to happen, you can't control what people think and honestly you're only making yourself more miserable by trying. Unless you like to be up all night in a debate.

 

Not everyone here is a BS (as has been said time and time again) before I remarried:love: I dated a bunch of azzholes, so I relate in being stuck in the bad man picker mode, I try to help from that angle. I had to get happy on my own, fix me first.

 

Frankly people go to message boards when they need help or can provide help for something. I have started posts in Politics (oh and you think THIS place is rough?!) but you maintain dignified conversation and stay true to yourself and realize YOU have the power to ignore if it's not your truth. I've also started them about my crazy co-workers in careers section because that's what I'm actively trying to do, leave my crazy job:cool:, am I happy in my job?, hell no! That's why I post there. To see if anyone else has as crazy a group as I do.

 

You will rarely see me post in marriage section. Why? because the majority of them are MISERABLE and looking for answers no different than this section. They really don't want help. So I'm not going to go on there and start threads about how happy I am and be rightfully perceived as gloating.

 

Which bring me to the whole "if something doesn't resonate with you it's not your truth" problem is with that, affairs are a mess. Even the level headed OW that are pretty much okay with them will admit that. So you are kind of on uneven field trying to make your truth that it's a "normal" relationship when most of the world know it's not.(oh it is? then why do you need a special protected board?) I think that's where the disconnect comes from even within those posters, then instead of dealing with that in a constructive way they lash out making themselves seem even more unsure and unhappy, which creates the Achilles heel for some other posters to question, which has the OW "defending" in the never ending cycle.

 

The truth was if it was your truth, you wouldn't be bothered by the comments that are contrary.

 

And honestly to the OP, how does it help her to say "oh no honey he LOVED you, he just treated you like chit because he was just so torn" instead of "hey, he's an azzclown and a jackazz and yeah, it wasn't a shining time to be involved with him but it doesn't have to define your future.

 

The first option is going to keep her stuck in the what if's, and why nots and basically not moving on. Constructive help can help her move on and empower her.

 

Most people that are OW find LS in pain, it's rare (notice rare not impossible) that someone comes here over the moon happy that they got their MM. Look at the thread titles and tell me which there are more of. The simple fact is no matter what, unless the MM and OW does some deep introspection on why they chose this dysfunction for themselves. And the MM must find out why he chose cheating as a coping tool, any future relationship with that person will likely crash and burn. You can't turn unhealthy into healthy without serious work.

 

I think deep down that's what bothers "some" OW seeing what the rest of the world would say and may well think and they may not want to face that crisis of conscience. That's totally understandable but it doesn't make it any less true, and creating a cocoon where you only have those posters that agree ,will not help you learn and grow into a happier future.

[bentleychic]

Now who's taking pot shots?

 

FTR, I didn't mean it as a pot shot AT ALL. ComingInHot has always seemed like a sweetheart to me, even when she's being brutally honest.

 

Again, as I've said over and over again, I just disagree that it's the worst thing that a person can do. Period. That's what I said and that's exactly and only what I meant. And yes, it apparently DOES depend on who you ask b/c people have disagreed with me, too! LOL

[ladydesigner]

even if it is unhealthy, twisted, based on betrayal, lies and deception and a relationship that is the most selfish and sadistic and malicious Real thing that any two people could ever participate in.

 

Well I for one can say that my relationship with xAP was well defined above (from CIH's post), for me anyways. I had an A as an escape from my reality (my reality being that my WH had just cheated on me). Sometimes we develop feelings for the wrong person and in this case it would have been my xAP. Our relationship was not healthy, it was addictive. It didn't feel good, it felt more like torture and it was sadistic to myself and to my family. Looking back it was one of the worst choices I have made in my life, and I do not say that about much.

[ladydesigner]

Now who's taking pot shots? Point is, see what I mean, it's okay for you to say that, but not okay for someone else to post their "truth". Because this is somehow perceived as a sanctified section of LS. Guess what? It's not.

 

I find it interesting because as little as I do come by there's always one of these "we need our own protected board" cries from the OW. Have you been to the dating side? Better wear helmets and protective gear. Think some of the "daters" aren't in pain? Yet they still have the passing comment that doesn't align with theirs thrown out there. You see how you can't minimize their pain either (fairly) but somehow want Switzerland declared over here.

 

Seriously this is the only section of LS that I've ever seen the occasional newbies pop by demanding why LS is like this. It's an OPEN forum, it's not going to change. As it has been pointed out, there were protected forums out there but they all apparently went up in smoke or they wouldn't keep coming back demanding LS to change. It's insulting the way some of you assume some OW can't handle some open honest dialogue and instead need coddling. I give them more credit than that, I might not agree with their choices but they are people first. Love the sinner, hate the sin and all that.

 

If you don't agree with it, move on. Why is it life and death for people, strangers to agree with your POV? It's not going to happen, you can't control what people think and honestly you're only making yourself more miserable by trying. Unless you like to be up all night in a debate.

 

Not everyone here is a BS (as has been said time and time again) before I remarried:love: I dated a bunch of azzholes, so I relate in being stuck in the bad man picker mode, I try to help from that angle. I had to get happy on my own, fix me first.

 

Frankly people go to message boards when they need help or can provide help for something. I have started posts in Politics (oh and you think THIS place is rough?!) but you maintain dignified conversation and stay true to yourself and realize YOU have the power to ignore if it's not your truth. I've also started them about my crazy co-workers in careers section because that's what I'm actively trying to do, leave my crazy job:cool:, am I happy in my job?, hell no! That's why I post there. To see if anyone else has as crazy a group as I do.

 

You will rarely see me post in marriage section. Why? because the majority of them are MISERABLE and looking for answers no different than this section. They really don't want help. So I'm not going to go on there and start threads about how happy I am and be rightfully perceived as gloating.

 

Which bring me to the whole "if something doesn't resonate with you it's not your truth" problem is with that, affairs are a mess. Even the level headed OW that are pretty much okay with them will admit that. So you are kind of on uneven field trying to make your truth that it's a "normal" relationship when most of the world know it's not.(oh it is? then why do you need a special protected board?) I think that's where the disconnect comes from even within those posters, then instead of dealing with that in a constructive way they lash out making themselves seem even more unsure and unhappy, which creates the Achilles heel for some other posters to question, which has the OW "defending" in the never ending cycle.

 

The truth was if it was your truth, you wouldn't be bothered by the comments that are contrary.

 

And honestly to the OP, how does it help her to say "oh no honey he LOVED you, he just treated you like chit because he was just so torn" instead of "hey, he's an azzclown and a jackazz and yeah, it wasn't a shining time to be involved with him but it doesn't have to define your future.

 

The first option is going to keep her stuck in the what if's, and why nots and basically not moving on. Constructive help can help her move on and empower her.

 

Most people that are OW find LS in pain, it's rare (notice rare not impossible) that someone comes here over the moon happy that they got their MM. Look at the thread titles and tell me which there are more of. The simple fact is no matter what, unless the MM and OW does some deep introspection on why they chose this dysfunction for themselves. And the MM must find out why he chose cheating as a coping tool, any future relationship with that person will likely crash and burn. You can't turn unhealthy into healthy without serious work.

 

I think deep down that's what bothers "some" OW seeing what the rest of the world would say and may well think and they may not want to face that crisis of conscience. That's totally understandable but it doesn't make it any less true, and creating a cocoon where you only have those posters that agree ,will not help you learn and grow into a happier future.

 

Now that is the truth! Great post!

[truthbetold]

FTR, I didn't mean it as a pot shot AT ALL. ComingInHot has always seemed like a sweetheart to me, even when she's being brutally honest.

 

Again, as I've said over and over again, I just disagree that it's the worst thing that a person can do. Period. That's what I said and that's exactly and only what I meant. And yes, it apparently DOES depend on who you ask b/c people have disagreed with me, too! LOL

 

That's cool, and honestly I was just making a point (not trying to call you out) that what you said could be "perceived" as a pot shot to someone that would read it that way. For example any BS that is in the raw stages of grief being betrayed by someone that swore undivided devotion to her, to "her" that may seem worse than a rape because the rape was a stranger. NOW before anybody goes off on that, all that is meant is one can not successful quantify another person's perception of pain. Be it abuse rape, betrayal, hell even childbirth. Everyone's pain is subjective to them. Difference is in the OW's situation she likely was aware of the triangle (thereby inadvertently inviting pain into her life) and chose to ignore (not all, I get that) but for whatever reason is betraying her own core values and morals which is what creates the disconnect and the impassioned responses to defend.

[bentleychic]

Agreed and understand. Lots of truth in that post.

[ComingInHot]

lady designer, To me, you and your story shows great strength and courage than I could ever have myself!

And regardless of what side of the A triangle you're on or have been on, I would and will defend you and your spirit to Anyone!

CIH*

[So happy together]

sohappy, but if your A relationship is Real, you'd know what I wrote to be true*

 

It may not be for your A. That would be great if there was not destruction left in the wake of your A. But from your story it seems there IS some if not all that wrote.

 

I'm truly sorry if it felt mean. It was only written in My overall evaluation of the impact A's have. Not just on BS's as a group but AP's and WS's as well...

 

peace happy. It's all good*

 

CIH, I understand. The thing is, I'm not worried about me. I am okay. I worry more for someone who is hurting, needs support and comes here for someone to give them a hand and they read what you wrote.

 

As far as destruction... The BS is def. hurt, but in ways that I'm sure I'll never know. I don't minimize it. I just don't know what it is. I'm definitely not ever going to like her for her refusal to do anything to help herself, even now, but I can't fix that. I feel for anyone who is betrayed. It's a horrible thing. But we are here to support one another, and I just wish that if BS's want to be here, they would not drag people down. Can you deny, honestly, that people don't call me on the carpet every single day? No matter what I post, I get called out. The 1700 mile thing, the LDR thing... I post my story and I get treated terribly by BS because I'm not sorry I am with the man I love. It's irritating. I do not go to the BS forum and tell them they are stupid jerks and don't deserve love. That they're husbands are philandering fools. And I mean this: I believe in love. If a BS makes things work with her WS, I am seriously, honestly, genuinely happy. I just think we deserve the same consideration.

 

xx