You haven't washed his underwear!

[jlola]

I don't disagree with protecting yourself. I do object to stats, of which there are many, all of them differing. The secrecy of affairs makes it impossible to determine anything. Even the stat of people who have happy R's after an affair are skewed because a lot of people try to move forward and wouldn't admit to their R beginning in an affair.

 

My R is healthy. And while I agree some of the R's on this forum cause pain, there are a lot of people not on this forum that are happy in their R post affair and don't feel the need to post here.

 

As for me, you can say what you like the the A was the best freakin' thing that ever happened to my boyfriend. It wasn't easy, but it gave him the courage to break the chains of an unhappy union. I'm sure I can't be the ONLY one.

 

Have a good one.

 

You have not yet lived with your boyfriend to find out if your union will be a happy one. Look, no disrespect. But LDR of 1700 miles away is not reality. You have 4-6 kids. This will interfere greatly with any relationship. Even parents with that many kids get highly stressed. being a step parent will be much more stressful. You cannot know how this man will react having to deal with a relationship,finances,monotony and all these kids everyday. You only knows how he reacts to them in short spurts.

 

BTW, how are the children's father dealing with all of this. You will be moving locations. Is he ok with it? Most fathers would not be.

[Red Wolverine]

I never understood the whole concept of "its not a real relationship, its just fantasy, because you only see the good in each other, you haven't done his laundry, or paid bills, or took care of sick kids, or blah blah blah". My ex-husband, of a 14 yr marriage, and I had never done any of those things before we got married either. Pretty sure my parents that were married most of their adult lives didn't either....or my grandparents.

 

So any relationship that hasn't included those things must be fantasy? Can't be real love? Isn't a real relationship?

 

You'll never know if it's real unless you take it out of the affair. Affairs are suspended reality at best.

 

It's not about feelings or laundry. When you have a secret relationship, how real can it be?

[MissBee]

You'll never know if it's real unless you take it out of the affair. Affairs are suspended reality at best.

 

It's not about feelings or laundry. When you have a secret relationship, how real can it be?

 

I agree.

 

If your relationship is limited because of distance or it's a secret or both combined, it's a reality which is suspended or test-tube, and one needs to take it out of that limited reality, to an open one with no constrains of secrecy, distance and compartments but integrate it in the total of your and their life. That will test it under "real" conditions and show a more realistic picture of its strength. As in the test-tube or suspended reality or secret or compartment, it may look very different.

 

Pilots learn on flight simulators initially, which simulate real conditions as best as they can and it does teach them a lot, but they aren't "real" pilots until they have a certain number of hours of real flying experience...and I dunno, I'm not trusting the skills of a pilot who has only flown in a simulator

[Got it]

And the second bolded, I say this with far more respect, but please speak for yourself. It was not a competition. And I was "chosen". For whatever hooey that means.

 

 

I am speaking based on 'stats' as plainly written out- and no its not a competition but when found out the WS needs to make a choice and in the majority of cases it is not the AP- read the freakin board-broken women all over the place that were so sure "he loved me" what we had was "real love" only to be tossed aside when found out-thats the point-you have a huge chance of getting seriously hurt if you believe an affair will lead to a long term, healthy relationship- don't give these women false hope that their AP is doing right by them and that affairs are good for them-tell it like it is-in the majority of cases its not good for anyone involved-everyone ends up less than and damaged-its a load of junk and its a dangerous concept-demand more for yourself regardless of who you are in the triangle- demand authenticity and protect yourself-period-

 

Damaged? Broken? Wow. That is quite an insulting statement. Read the dating board, read the divorce board, you will see a large number of relationships die a painful death period. Speaking about situation is not something I have to cover up. It is foolish in any situation for someone to take what one person does, says, etc. and take it as verbatim to translate into their lives. But I do not feel I have to be silent or not outspoken because you feel I am going to give false hopes.

 

Maybe I didn't view my self worth as based on a relationship so regardless of whatever direction they went in I didn't see myself as broken or damaged? Do you? My self worth is not tied to whether or not a relationship works or is "successful" (which is such a ridiculous assessment). That is co-dependent thinking.

[Rose Auxerrois]

I never understood the whole concept of "its not a real relationship, its just fantasy, because you only see the good in each other, you haven't done his laundry, or paid bills, or took care of sick kids, or blah blah blah". My ex-husband, of a 14 yr marriage, and I had never done any of those things before we got married either. Pretty sure my parents that were married most of their adult lives didn't either....or my grandparents.

 

So any relationship that hasn't included those things must be fantasy? Can't be real love? Isn't a real relationship?

 

So feministe cannot have "real" relationship either because we do not wash undergarment of any man, not pay his bill, not nurse his children? Is it not with any relationship that those in the relationship should decide how the task are divided? If he cook and I mow lawn, or he clean and I fix, or he look after bebe and I work, is that not our choice and not valid?

[Owl]

So I've skipped reading a lot of the responses to this thread and thought I'd go straight to posting my thoughts.

 

I won't comment on the question of whether or not an affair is a "real" relationship or not...even based on whether or not it deals with the 'daily life stressors' like cleaning up after each other.

 

Where I think a lot of people don't track with the context of the opening statement in this thread is that when someone is in an affair...they are in the process of DECIDING BETWEEN THE TWO RELATIONSHIPS.

 

They will always be 'weighing' one relationship against the other...intentionally or not. It will happen.

 

And that's where this really comes into play. The affair doesn't have anywhere near the same negatives associated with those day to day stressors that the long term co-habitating relationship does. The BS suddenly DOES seem less attractive...because they're associated with those stressors of paying the bills, the need to clean up the bathroom, etc... Their relationship includes coping with things like managing a budget, balancing schedules, making sure that the kids are taken care of, cleaning up after the dog, etc...

 

The affair is more attractive, in that fashion. Because those realities have not yet intruded into it. The WS is able to enjoy it more, because it's not been tainted with having to deal with those day to day problems. And the few times they do come in...it's different, because they can feel like a hero by volunteering to help out, rather than doing so because it is their responsibility to do so.

 

So I don't care about the "is it real or memorex" debate. The simple fact that they're different, but still compared and evaluated in the mind of the WS is the real context of the statment the OP posted about.

[MissBee]

One thing for sure is, when you're in an affair relationship, particularly a LD one, it leaves room for these types of is it real or not debates, as clearly it is not a given to many people that such is the case, so the onus will fall on Ow/Om to explain it to the curious or disbelieving. The MP is usually hiding it anyway, so there is nothing for them to explain as no one or few in their lives know about their real affair...the relationship is real "in their hearts", which is what really matters....

[MissBee]

So I've skipped reading a lot of the responses to this thread and thought I'd go straight to posting my thoughts.

 

I won't comment on the question of whether or not an affair is a "real" relationship or not...even based on whether or not it deals with the 'daily life stressors' like cleaning up after each other.

 

Where I think a lot of people don't track with the context of the opening statement in this thread is that when someone is in an affair...they are in the process of DECIDING BETWEEN THE TWO RELATIONSHIPS.

 

They will always be 'weighing' one relationship against the other...intentionally or not. It will happen.

 

And that's where this really comes into play. The affair doesn't have anywhere near the same negatives associated with those day to day stressors that the long term co-habitating relationship does. The BS suddenly DOES seem less attractive...because they're associated with those stressors of paying the bills, the need to clean up the bathroom, etc... Their relationship includes coping with things like managing a budget, balancing schedules, making sure that the kids are taken care of, cleaning up after the dog, etc...

 

The affair is more attractive, in that fashion. Because those realities have not yet intruded into it. The WS is able to enjoy it more, because it's not been tainted with having to deal with those day to day problems. And the few times they do come in...it's different, because they can feel like a hero by volunteering to help out, rather than doing so because it is their responsibility to do so.

 

So I don't care about the "is it real or memorex" debate. The simple fact that they're different, but still compared and evaluated in the mind of the WS is the real context of the statment the OP posted about.

 

Great post.

 

I'm posting from my phone so I'm constrained, but I need to find that romance vs. relationship article. It speaks to this distinction and it wasn't discussing affairs; however, by their nature many affair relationships are more romantic and about romance and feelings than a relationship. Single people sometimes choose romance and think they're choosing a relationship...but when it's not as romantic they can't deal with the relationship, Likewise how many OW say they don't want "full time" i.e. they want romance and not the totality and work of a relationship.

[thefooloftheyear]

Great post.

 

I'm posting from my phone so I'm constrained, but I need to find that romance vs. relationship article. It speaks to this distinction and it wasn't discussing affairs; however, by their nature many affair relationships are more romantic and about romance and feelings than a relationship. Single people sometimes choose romance and think they're choosing a relationship...but when it's not as romantic they can't deal with the relationship, Likewise how many OW say they don't want "full time" i.e. they want romance and not the totality and work of a relationship.

 

Ive posted on this topic before and I believe its a reason why women are so attracted to this scenario..Its the "Fabio on the White Horse" unrealistic nonsense-without the bills and "trash on Tuesday" and ignoring them when the football game is on...

 

TFY

[xxoo]

This is exactly what I'm saying. At what point then does a relationship become real? After a year? Two years? The second kid? The picket fence? When is enough invested to make it actual love or whatever you want to call it? So if I start dating a single guy, can I only consider us invested after I see the skidmarks?

 

When it is the only relationship, and everyone knows it.

 

As long as there is another relationship to escape from, or to, the relationship is not standing on its own. Also, as long as the fall out of the affair is avoided by deception and lies, the relationship is not standing on its own. It is impossible to know how the relationship will handle those realities (being the only relationship, absorbing the consequences of truth) until it becomes reality.

[So happy together]

When it is the only relationship, and everyone knows it.

 

As long as there is another relationship to escape from, or to, the relationship is not standing on its own. Also, as long as the fall out of the affair is avoided by deception and lies, the relationship is not standing on its own. It is impossible to know how the relationship will handle those realities (being the only relationship, absorbing the consequences of truth) until it becomes reality.

 

Not true. It is a 'real' relationship when you both, as a couple, decide for it to be.

[xxoo]

Not true. It is a 'real' relationship when you both, as a couple, decide for it to be.

 

Calling it "real" is different from dealing with full reality.

 

I mean, sure, it's a real love affair. But it doesn't mean it will be the same when it is tested by full reality.

Edited August 20, 2013 by xxoo

[MissBee]

Not true. It is a 'real' relationship when you both, as a couple, decide for it to be.

 

What does this decision look like? Besides saying we're in a relationship or we're married in our hearts or something, what do you mean by it's real if you decide it is?

 

Seems like the differing views stem from an actions vs. talk, feelings vs lived reality and public vs. private perception.

[Silly_Girl]

When it is the only relationship, and everyone knows it.

 

 

Then I'd posit, as an earlier poster mentioned, the above renders the pre-existing marriage as 'not real' also. Because everyone *can't* know that it's the only relationship, because it isn't.

[xxoo]

What is the point of insisting it is real when avoiding reality?

 

On some ways, it's a matter of poop or get off the pot. You can't expect people making long term relationships work with no escape to respect the genuineness of affair love. Face reality, make it through the ***** storm of full discovery, establish an honest, open relationship together dealing with the consequences of divorce, and if you are still feeling like this is true love, then you'd get a lot more respect for that relationship.

[xxoo]

Then I'd posit, as an earlier poster mentioned, the above renders the pre-existing marriage as 'not real' also. Because everyone *can't* know that it's the only relationship, because it isn't.

 

Oh, for sure. A relationship where someone is cheating is a fraud.

 

That doesn't mean it wasn't real in the past, however.

[Silly_Girl]

Oh, for sure. A relationship where someone is cheating is a fraud.

 

That doesn't mean it wasn't real in the past, however.

 

Absolutely!

[So happy together]

Oh, for sure. A relationship where someone is cheating is a fraud.

 

That doesn't mean it wasn't real in the past, however.

 

No, it isn't. It's simply parallel relationships. A relationship is whatever it means to the people involved and just because you wish it was not, doesn't make it so. Sorry. These women who are in parallel relationships, even if they are not known to all parties, does not make it a fraud. And I would wager that if there was fraud, it would be the marriage...

[xxoo]

No, it isn't. It's simply parallel relationships. A relationship is whatever it means to the people involved and just because you wish it was not, doesn't make it so. Sorry. These women who are in parallel relationships, even if they are not known to all parties, does not make it a fraud. And I would wager that if there was fraud, it would be the marriage...

 

I said the marriage is a fraud. One party is defrauding the other.

 

The affair is just that: an affair.

 

Parallel relationships can exist openly and in reality. It is the avoiding truth and reality part that makes affair love less respected as real love.

[So happy together]

In terms of the long distance relationship I can relate to this in a way. My fiance and I were long distance for 2, very long years. We tried to work our way around, making it feel like a "real" relationship, but I know I had a difficult time coping. This was my first LDR, and I struggled with feeling whether or not we were a real couple, tbh. With that being said, I feel in our situation that we were able to accomplish a lot in terms of making it as normal as possible:

 

 

• We visited each other every 2 months for two years straight. Our visits were a week at a time, where we basically lived together. I stayed one entire summer in his state, he stayed an entire summer in my state.
  
• We were constantly calling, texting, emailing.
  
• Skype was never, EVER turned off! We literally slept with it on.
  

We were excessive in our communication when we were long distance, and I STILL struggled internally with how real we were. And if I am being honest with myself I did not feel like we were on equal ground as other relationships until we moved in together. Let me reiterate, that is just how *I* felt. Others may be different in how they view things.

 

Basically, I think MissBee put it aptly when she said that LDRs and affairs are like test tube relationships. They are within a certain, limited environment, that is different from the norm. The nature of the relationship does leave it open for people to question how authentic it is... and usually the parties involved wanting to validate it, or feel some sort of validation that what they have is real as any other relationship.

 

I hear this. The first year it was difficult for us to see one another, but since then we've seen one another very often. He flies out all the time and we do spend a few days. We also travel alone so that we have time for just the two of us. But I have to disagree with the authenticity of it. Personally, and I know as we banter back and forth we all do this occasionally, I feel the only people that need to authenticate my R are my boyfriend and me. We feel that it is very authentic. This is not our first rodeo, we've been in other relationships. This one feels more real, more right, better matched than any other has. And I honestly don't think this is the fog talking. I think... sometimes people who are not OM/OW do not realize that it is not all rainbows and unicorns on our end, we struggle, we have our road bumps. Just because they are different doesn't mean we don't have them. It's real to us. What else matters?

[So happy together]

I said the marriage is a fraud. One party is defrauding the other.

 

The affair is just that: an affair.

 

Parallel relationships can exist openly and in reality. It is the avoiding truth and reality part that makes affair love less respected as real love.

 

I aplologize, I misunderstood the fraud thing... I thought you meant the marriage was a fraud.

 

Whether you (generally) respect it or not, that does not make the love any less real. It's still LOVE. You see, you are taking the parallel relationship and making it into what YOU want it to be. But for me, I was in a parallel relationship. They run side by side. Just because there is a wall so that you couldn't see me, didn't mean I wasn't parallel. I'm frankly a little sick of BS's belittling the relationships that these OW, specifically the ones who are here on LS, have with their MM. I do understand that FOW, BS's don't like it much ,but FOR US, it is our relationship. You've no right to tell us it is less than. it isn't.

[xxoo]

I aplologize, I misunderstood the fraud thing... I thought you meant the marriage was a fraud.

 

Whether you (generally) respect it or not, that does not make the love any less real. It's still LOVE. You see, you are taking the parallel relationship and making it into what YOU want it to be. But for me, I was in a parallel relationship. They run side by side. Just because there is a wall so that you couldn't see me, didn't mean I wasn't parallel. I'm frankly a little sick of BS's belittling the relationships that these OW, specifically the ones who are here on LS, have with their MM. I do understand that FOW, BS's don't like it much ,but FOR US, it is our relationship. You've no right to tell us it is less than. it isn't.

 

I'm not a BS. I'm a woman who knows what is involved in maintaining a loving marriage for multiple decades, with no parallel relationships.

[So happy together]

I'm not a BS. I'm a woman who knows what is involved in maintaining a loving marriage for multiple decades, with no parallel relationships.

 

That is why I said general. I didn't know where you fit. And really, since you don't know what it feels like to be in a parallel relationship, you probably shouldn't judge it.

 

Have a good one.

[xxoo]

It's real to us. What else matters?

 

The people who are being deceived, and the possibility that the affair love would not continue without their (usually unknowing) support.

[ladydesigner]

I aplologize, I misunderstood the fraud thing... I thought you meant the marriage was a fraud.

 

Whether you (generally) respect it or not, that does not make the love any less real. It's still LOVE. You see, you are taking the parallel relationship and making it into what YOU want it to be. But for me, I was in a parallel relationship. They run side by side. Just because there is a wall so that you couldn't see me, didn't mean I wasn't parallel. I'm frankly a little sick of BS's belittling the relationships that these OW, specifically the ones who are here on LS, have with their MM. I do understand that FOW, BS's don't like it much ,but FOR US, it is our relationship. You've no right to tell us it is less than. it isn't.

 

So happy together we get it, your relationship is 'real' end of story. What is 'real' for you does not mean it is 'real' for me or anyone else for that matter. I believe my WH's relationship was not 'real' because they had not had the time, years, kids, or family built into their relationship. I read their texts and listened to VAR recorded conversations. My WH was a complainer. He complained to her and me, the only difference is she listened to it and felt sorry for him. I've been with him enough years to know better. I refuse to be co-dependent on him.

 

Your relationship probably is real otherwise you would not be moving forward with him. I think what some of the BS's are saying is that a lot of theses A relationships are not 'real' in the sense of what has been put into them. I have been with my WH 17 years, he moved heaven and earth to see me when we first met and there was nobody in the middle. He is moving heaven and earth to stay with me too. We have been through so much together. MOW experienced 7 months of knowing my WH. 3 of them were the A. I'm sorry, but it would be silly to compare the difference, that is IMO of course. Just as you have said, no one has a right to tell me it was less than. I do know for a fact that my own A was less than so I can add my experience as a fMOW to that as well.