You haven't washed his underwear!

[xxoo]

That is why I said general. I didn't know where you fit. And really, since you don't know what it feels like to be in a parallel relationship, you probably shouldn't judge it.

 

Have a good one.

 

It isn't the parallel relationship that I judge. It's the deception. I have no issue with open polyamory.

[So happy together]

So happy together we get it, your relationship is 'real' end of story. What is 'real' for you does not mean it is 'real' for me or anyone else for that matter. I believe my WH's relationship was not 'real' because they had not had the time, years, kids, or family built into their relationship. I read their texts and listened to VAR recorded conversations. My WH was a complainer. He complained to her and me, the only difference is she listened to it and felt sorry for him. I've been with him enough years to know better. I refuse to be co-dependent on him.

 

Your relationship probably is real otherwise you would not be moving forward with him. I think what some of the BS's are saying is that a lot of theses A relationships are not 'real' in the sense of what has been put into them. I have been with my WH 17 years, he moved heaven and earth to see me when we first met and there was nobody in the middle. He is moving heaven and earth to stay with me too. We have been through so much together. MOW experienced 7 months of knowing my WH. 3 of them were the A. I'm sorry, but it would be silly to compare the difference, that is IMO of course. Just as you have said, no one has a right to tell me it was less than. I do know for a fact that my own A was less than so I can add my experience as a fMOW to that as well.

 

Yes, this exactly. Nobody has the right to tell you if your relationship was/is real or not. If it is to you, that's what matters.

 

And I think if your H is moving heaven and earth for you, more power to both of you. I wish you happiness. it feels good to be loved like that.

[So happy together]

It isn't the parallel relationship that I judge. It's the deception. I have no issue with open polyamory.

 

That is your view. For some people, being in a private parallel relationship is exactly what they want/need and are fine with it. I had a difficult time being quiet about us, but you know, I did it because I love him. And I also know women who are perfectly content in their relationship within the parameters of the affair and never plan to change it. I am close friends with a man who has been OM to a MOW for 5 years. He's happy in the R and will stay. She is also happy in the R and will stay. And deception is everywhere. The average woman lies between 1 and 5 times a day, a man between 3 and 7 times a day. Of course, this varies, but there is not a person in the world who doesn't lie sometimes. Nobody is perfect. This world is a messy, messy place. I, for one, plan to find love and happiness, and make it last, while I can.

[xxoo]

If you believe your relationship to be real, that's your view. If it makes you happy, enjoy.

 

The problem arises when people expect others to respect their affair as a real relationship.

[ladydesigner]

Yes, this exactly. Nobody has the right to tell you if your relationship was/is real or not. If it is to you, that's what matters.

 

And I think if your H is moving heaven and earth for you, more power to both of you. I wish you happiness. it feels good to be loved like that.

 

Absolutely! It is the actions that need close attention. If MM is moving heaven and earth to end his M to be with OW, well then that would be the correct thing to do if MM saw his 'real' relationship being with OW, rather than letting the BS believe that there is something left to fight for or save.

[So happy together]

If you believe your relationship to be real, that's your view. If it makes you happy, enjoy.

 

The problem arises when people expect others to respect their affair as a real relationship.

 

I'll say it one more time. You've NO right to tell ANYONE that their R is not a REAL relationship. YOU. ARE. NOT. GOD.

 

Have a good one (This would be me dismissing you now, because what I am saying is falling on deaf ears).

[xxoo]

I'll say it one more time. You've NO right to tell ANYONE that their R is not a REAL relationship. YOU. ARE. NOT. GOD.

 

Have a good one (This would be me dismissing you now, because what I am saying is falling on deaf ears).

 

I'm not telling you what it is or isn't. I'm telling you my view of affairs relationships.

 

You have no right to expect that outsiders respect your affair relationship. That is that the thread is about: why people don't respect them as "real" relationships.

[Spotme]

I think Miss Bee covered my thoughts pretty well as she usually does. I would also add that there may be an element of the WS only presenting the face they want to in an A, much as we all do when dating, but that the full good, bad, and ugly, can't help but be revealed in the small stuff of every day life. My H gave me several examples of how he tried to make himself look better/different from himself to the AP. He also expected that after I threw him out, the AP would not be attracted to the everyday him as revealed through closer contact and would dump him (says something about his self-esteem, yes?). He could not even perform certain bodily functions in her bathroom, even if she was not nearby. I have to admit that made me laugh.

[So happy together]

Absolutely! It is the actions that need close attention. If MM is moving heaven and earth to end his M to be with OW, well then that would be the correct thing to do if MM saw his 'real' relationship being with OW, rather than letting the BS believe that there is something left to fight for or save.

 

This happened to me, and I'm grateful. But I can't just say what MM (generally) should do in his R with his BS or with his OW. We just don't know the reasons for the secrecy. I understand my view is not like everyone else's, but I just don't know how anyone can judge anyone else's relationship. The only people that can work out the R are the people in it. So while secrecy is probably not the best thing, for some it works best at the time. I know, I know, you're going to say "Well, how can the BS work it out if they don't know about the other R"... I honestly don't have an answer to that. In my case, it was necessary until he could logistically leave. In others, I just don't know. I do know that I will support OW here because they are here for just that, and I've been there. It, while having great times, can also be a tough gig. And what I see is, if they are willing to go through that, I have no right to tell them they are wrong. Whatever they decide, they should have support in their feelings. That is how BS's feel too, isn't it? Most are here for support? I'm here to give it.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I wonder how many ap go to court and get a financial support order after their "real" relationship ended?

 

Legally, it is not real. Only a spouse can sue for support...or a child.

[Confusion_Reigns]

Why does one feel the need to prove or justify their love? Marriage or Affair? Why spend that time and energy on trying to make someone think like you do? It's pointless, I think, to do this. You know what you need to know.

 

Also, if the OW wish that their relationship be respected as real why go to the point of judging the marriage as the unreal relationship? It makes no sense to me. Respect is given and taken, freely, wholly, and absolutely...or it's not respect.

 

As for myself, my marriage is reality and the emotional affair is real but is just a different type of reality. Both are real but not the same.

[xxoo]

Why does one feel the need to prove or justify their love? Marriage or Affair? Why spend that time and energy on trying to make someone think like you do? It's pointless, I think, to do this. You know what you need to know.

 

People may feel more driven to justify when they don't know what they need to know.

[So happy together]

Actually, anyone has a right to tell anyone anything they want (barring some type of restraining order or violation of hate speach laws, etc). YOU however have a right to dismiss what the person is saying. I can view another person's relationship anyway I want to. I can say "I think your relationship isnt real". You cant control orp revent me from doing that. You cant take away my "right" to do that, simply by saying "you have no right to do that", when I in fact do. You cant control what others say or think. You can only control your own reaction to it.

 

You are attempting to control her perception and statements and opinion....apparently by the use of caps lock. Its not possible to do that.

 

Okay, what do you have to say to OW here that is positive?

[So happy together]

Actually, anyone has a right to tell anyone anything they want (barring some type of restraining order or violation of hate speach laws, etc). YOU however have a right to dismiss what the person is saying. I can view another person's relationship anyway I want to. I can say "I think your relationship isnt real". You cant control orp revent me from doing that. You cant take away my "right" to do that, simply by saying "you have no right to do that", when I in fact do. You cant control what others say or think. You can only control your own reaction to it.

 

You are attempting to control her perception and statements and opinion....apparently by the use of caps lock. Its not possible to do that.

 

Right. Go ahead then. Tell all these women, as BS's commonly do, that their R is less than. But you'd be wrong.

 

Enjoy your day!

[Owl]

Okay, what do you have to say to OW here that is positive?

 

Why does she have to say anything 'positive' to an OW that she feels is engaged in destructive behavior?

 

Support often includes recommending that you change behaviors perceived as destructive or self-destructive.

 

She DOES have to remain civil and respectful according to the TOS on this site...but that too isn't the same as 'positive'.

[Owl]

And I thought I'd share this from my discussions with my wife back during her EA, and shortly aftewards.

 

I had serious concerns about her health and safety. She was insistent that she was in love with OM...whom she'd never met in person, had only conversed with via text/IM/phone conversations for a few months, and had only seen one picture of. She was about to fly away to live with him...in spite of all of this.

 

From my perspective, she couldn't possibly be in love with him. She was in love with her PERCEPTION of him...but she couldn't possibly know HIM well enough from that conversation to have any real concept of who he was. Heck...our daugther asked her mother how she'd feel if the situation were changed and it was our daughter going into that situation...my wife totally glossed it over (at the time).

 

So...from my perspective...THAT relationship wasn't "real" because there was simply far too little interaction to have allowed the two of them to truly know each other well enough to be in love.

 

He didn't know her well enough, nor did she know him well enough. They were in love with the person they THOUGHT the other was...but didn't know each other well enough to even have an idea on who that person was, based on the very limited scope of their interactions.

 

And that ties into the topic here in that its the same thing...not enough interaction to truly KNOW the other person anywhere to the same depth as having lived with them daily for several years.

 

I know others won't agree...and that's fine. And to a degree, I can agree with the idea that you never do know someone that well prior to living together...such as when you're dating. You grow into that level of relationship over time.

 

But that might help both sides see the other side to a degree.

[bentleychic]

Man, I wish we could segregate the boards. LOL

 

All joking aside, according to MM, I know him better than anyone, even his W (that's so subjective and I admit that I disagreed w/ him and told him I doubted that was possible, but he swears it is). We generally talk for hours every week day about everything and nothing. I KNOW we know a lot about each other. More than I have any other boyfriend, for sure. No, I don't clean his dirty underwear. We DO deal w/ real life issues together. We discuss bills and big purchases. I'm looking for a place and he's been giving me advice, helping me look, etc. We give each other parenting input (though his are legal adults, he still has things that come up). We plan trips together. Yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

To me, it's no different than a "normal" dating boyfriend/girlfriend relationship in terms of that. (Obviously, since he's married, it's different, but that's not the part that I'm touching on.)

 

I'll also say that I have several VERY close friends. I don't do their laundry, discuss their bills with them, etc., etc., BUT I don't consider our relationship any less real because of it.

[MissBee]

Actually, anyone has a right to tell anyone anything they want (barring some type of restraining order or violation of hate speach laws, etc). YOU however have a right to dismiss what the person is saying. I can view another person's relationship anyway I want to. I can say "I think your relationship isnt real". You cant control orp revent me from doing that. You cant take away my "right" to do that, simply by saying "you have no right to do that", when I in fact do. You cant control what others say or think. You can only control your own reaction to it.

 

You are attempting to control her perception and statements and opinion....apparently by the use of caps lock. Its not possible to do that.[b/]

 

I laughed out loud at this:laugh:

 

But indeed one has every right to think anything about someone's relationship, one need not be God to do so as God gave everyone a brain to judge for themselves lol . As you said, you can dismiss their views, but if they can't think it because they aren't God, who died and made you God to decide what people have a right to think?

 

The more I read, it's a losing battle for the other person it seems and the onus is on them always to explain or prove their relationship...even their married partner is free from that, as as far as everyone knows usually is that they are married and they take that for what it is so no opportunity arises for them to prove anything, as for all intents and purposes they are in one open relationship.

 

The idea that something is real if you say it is...well I saw something similar on another OW Site. It was an OW basically telling another OW that although MM ended it, they were still a couple as long as she thought they were and she didn't have to subscribe to his definition. It reminds me of some of the arguments here....all I could think was, if something is only real to you, is that nit the definition of delusion? As unfortunately, what is real is based on collective consensus, hence we can establish the insane among us, as their reality is one of their own making which no one but them share...or maybe them and another mad person lol.

[So happy together]

And I thought I'd share this from my discussions with my wife back during her EA, and shortly aftewards.

 

I had serious concerns about her health and safety. She was insistent that she was in love with OM...whom she'd never met in person, had only conversed with via text/IM/phone conversations for a few months, and had only seen one picture of. She was about to fly away to live with him...in spite of all of this.

 

From my perspective, she couldn't possibly be in love with him. She was in love with her PERCEPTION of him...but she couldn't possibly know HIM well enough from that conversation to have any real concept of who he was. Heck...our daugther asked her mother how she'd feel if the situation were changed and it was our daughter going into that situation...my wife totally glossed it over (at the time).

 

So...from my perspective...THAT relationship wasn't "real" because there was simply far too little interaction to have allowed the two of them to truly know each other well enough to be in love.

 

He didn't know her well enough, nor did she know him well enough. They were in love with the person they THOUGHT the other was...but didn't know each other well enough to even have an idea on who that person was, based on the very limited scope of their interactions.

 

And that ties into the topic here in that its the same thing...not enough interaction to truly KNOW the other person anywhere to the same depth as having lived with them daily for several years.

 

I know others won't agree...and that's fine. And to a degree, I can agree with the idea that you never do know someone that well prior to living together...such as when you're dating. You grow into that level of relationship over time.

 

But that might help both sides see the other side to a degree.

 

Well, that said, I would counter that with all these BS's who had no idea their partner was having an affair, clearly they don't know their partner at all. I mean really, if they LIVE together, they should know everything, right? It should show on their faces that they are in a parallel relationship. But it doesn't because as we know in this world you see what people want you to see.

 

Have a good afternoon Owl. By the way, much respect, I'm just really REALLY tired of being told that every one of these R's is horrible. Look at CIH's post. Look at the last paragraph. See what she called affairs? Do you think that is constructive to ANYONE in affairs? It's not. It's just mean spirited.

 

And no offense to you either, CIH, I just think it was kind of... unnecessary. It's not as if we don't know what we are getting into. We are not dullards.

[Owl]

Well, that said, I would counter that with all these BS's who had no idea their partner was having an affair, clearly they don't know their partner at all. I mean really, if they LIVE together, they should know everything, right? It should show on their faces that they are in a parallel relationship. But it doesn't because as we know in this world you see what people want you to see.

 

Have a good afternoon Owl. By the way, much respect, I'm just really REALLY tired of being told that every one of these R's is horrible. Look at CIH's post. Look at the last paragraph. See what she called affairs? Do you think that is constructive to ANYONE in affairs? It's not. It's just mean spirited.

 

And no offense to you either, CIH, I just think it was kind of... unnecessary. It's not as if we don't know what we are getting into. We are not dullards.

 

That's a whole different ball of wax. Now you're talking about an expectation that the BS's should have known...regardless of the fact that they were deliberately and intentionally lied to, misled, and deceived.

 

And there are any number of BS's out there that struggle with wrapping their head around that fact as well...myself included. I suspected for several weeks...but didn't WANT to believe it until it was so obvious I could no longer ignore it. And that is the cusp of the betrayal...and one of the greatest sources of pain for a BS to cope with.

 

Why DIDN'T we see it sooner, act sooner, take action to put an end to it sooner? What was wrong with ME that I didn't do these things?

 

I try not to be rude or disrespectful, even when I disagree with someone's viewpoint. I'm not always right...just usually! :) JUST KIDDING!

[bentleychic]

I agree with So Happy. It's to the point that most times, I don't even want to post here any more. It's a totally gang up on OW/OM too much lately. I don't post on the infidelity board b/c I don't want to upset them by posting there, even if I actually had good input. I feel like that's their place to talk, process, etc. So they come over here to attack, downplay our relationships and criticize us, almost like WE are their OW/OM so they take it out on us. Not cool. I know when I first joined, I was told to block the mean spirited bitter ones, but they seem to be increasing. (I never did block, btw. LOL)

[So happy together]

I agree with So Happy. It's to the point that most times, I don't even want to post here any more. It's a totally gang up on OW/OM too much lately. I don't post on the infidelity board b/c I don't want to upset them by posting there, even if I actually had good input. I feel like that's their place to talk, process, etc. So they come over here to attack, downplay our relationships and criticize us, almost like WE are their OW/OM so they take it out on us. Not cool. I know when I first joined, I was told to block the mean spirited bitter ones, but they seem to be increasing. (I never did block, btw. LOL)

 

Another problem with blocking is that it is difficult to follow the thread if you only see part of it. I've noticed that the OW site is crickets lately.

[ladydesigner]

Well, that said, I would counter that with all these BS's who had no idea their partner was having an affair, clearly they don't know their partner at all. I mean really, if they LIVE together, they should know everything, right? It should show on their faces that they are in a parallel relationship. But it doesn't because as we know in this world you see what people want you to see.

 

Have a good afternoon Owl. By the way, much respect, I'm just really REALLY tired of being told that every one of these R's is horrible. Look at CIH's post. Look at the last paragraph. See what she called affairs? Do you think that is constructive to ANYONE in affairs? It's not. It's just mean spirited.

 

And no offense to you either, CIH, I just think it was kind of... unnecessary. It's not as if we don't know what we are getting into. We are not dullards.

 

I had a feeling my WH was having an A because of his personality change. he was being very emotionally cold and abusive at times to me and the kids. I didn't understand why he was being so mean. My therapist has the date in her journal me saying "I wouldn't be surprised if he is having an A." Then I had a very vivid dream of him with another woman and he could not give a rats ass about me. It turned out to be my reality 2 weeks later. I looked at his phone...boom...busted. In my case my gut was exploding, my WH kept explaining it away as work and I believed him.

[MissBee]

This thread is a discussion thread though and not a support one, so people are discussing general ideas about affairs. I don't see why it is sooooo upsetting to people who claim and know their relationships differs from some of the general discussion.

 

Support threads aren't for debate, even though it happens, but discussion threads are for any member of LS to discuss, agree, disagree or debate the TOPIC at hand. It seems silly to get all upset and act like the thread or opinions are about your relationship specifically or act like it changes things for you, when it isn't and doesn't.

Edited August 20, 2013 by MissBee

[bentleychic]

Support threads aren't for debate, even though it happens, but discussion threads are for any member of LS to discuss, agree, disagree or debate the TOPIC at hand.

 

I actually didn't realize that. Is that a rule or just a general given type of thing?