Did I mess up?

[LoveIs]

I've been dumped over trust issues and I'm struggling to figure out if I really am to blame.

 

This man came into my life, after having broken up with me a year and a half prior and having no contact, to tell me how sorry he was and how much he realized he wanted to be with me. The issue then was just that he had too much going on in his life and could not deal with the responsibility and stress of a relationship (or so that is how the story went when he came back). I missed him. He said and did all of the right things, showed commitment and care, but I was nervous. The thing is, we live in two different cities, 3 hours apart, so we would see each other on the weekends, but weekdays were apart.

 

I felt like I was getting the relationship I had always wanted and it felt amazingly healthy and wonderful to me. But it didn't last. One of the problems we continually faced was that he immediately demanded I give up my male friends and hobbies (salsa dancing is a big hobby of mine). I can understand being jealous, but he would always have been welcome wherever I went if we lived in the same city, so I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong. I also admit that during the first few weeks of being together, I continued to go out with friends to parties and didn't tell everyone I had a boyfriend right from the getgo. I was not unfaithful, per se, but I was probably still conducting myself somewhat like a single person. Day by day, that felt less right to me so I gave those things up and made it very clear to everyone in my life how committed I was to my boyfriend and ready to really give it a good shot with him. To me, this felt like a natural progression.

 

All of the demands he made on me, however, made me reluctant to take care of myself and pursue interests during the week. Whenever I would try to talk to him about it, because I wanted to find activities he would be ok with me doing, it turned into a big fight. He considers having lunch or going on a walk with a single male friend a date. I do not. And I can see how those things fall by the wayside naturally over time, but I just didn't think it was fair to demand it from the start.

 

Not taking care of myself led to me being grumpy and resentful. I see that now. I just want to start over. In rehashing the relationship, he's told me how by the time I "turned the corner" and gave up my friendships, he was exhausted and didn't trust me.

 

He had a picture on his phone he was really proud of. One day, I gently tried to bring up that I felt like I needed to have activities during the week so I wouldn't pine so hard for him. But that meant taking dance classes or things where I might meet guys and they would talk to me. He got so upset that the next time I saw him, the picture wasn't on his phone. He told me, "I got so upset at the thought of you hanging out with these other guys that I looked and looked at your picture and every time I saw it it bothered me."

 

I'm torn between feeling like I've done something horribly wrong and I can just fix it and feeling like he was not being reasonable.

 

In the end, I guess it doesn't matter because the relationship is over (no matter how badly I wish it weren't).

[nescafe1982]

Don't weep over this relationship too much... it sounds like he was very controlling an it might have even led into emotionally-abusive territory.

 

If there is anything you can work on as you recuperate from this relationship, it might be good to understand why you gave up all the good parts of your life for a man. Why did you allow him to cross those boundaries? Why didn't you love yourself (through you actions) as much as you did him? And why did every activity you wanted to do require his "permission"? That's not healthy..

 

Now, I'm not saying you should answer these questions right now; you may not have the answers. But when you're ready to take an honest look at the relationship with the benefit of hindsight (eg after some time has passed), you would benefit from answering them to yourself. You don't want to end up with another man like this one, so you want to know what made you choose him.

 

Read up on relationship co-dependency. I'm not a shrink (so take my amateur advice for what it's worth and not a cent more), but what you're describing sounds like a co-dependent cycle. The man sounds a bit like a narcissist.

[nescafe1982]

 

I'm torn between feeling like I've done something horribly wrong and I can just fix it and feeling like he was not being reasonable.

 

Sorry to double post. But this is the one you should go with.

[drifter777]

Neither one of you is doing anything wrong other than trying to have a relationship that you guys aren't right for. He wants a serious relationship that is headed for marriage and you are still in the "girls just want to have fun" stage. Face the fact that your relationship with him isn't working and isn't likely to magically start working and end it.

[IAmRobot]

I've been dumped over trust issues and I'm struggling to figure out if I really am to blame.

 

This man came into my life, after having broken up with me a year and a half prior and having no contact, to tell me how sorry he was and how much he realized he wanted to be with me. The issue then was just that he had too much going on in his life and could not deal with the responsibility and stress of a relationship (or so that is how the story went when he came back). I missed him. He said and did all of the right things, showed commitment and care, but I was nervous. The thing is, we live in two different cities, 3 hours apart, so we would see each other on the weekends, but weekdays were apart.

 

I felt like I was getting the relationship I had always wanted and it felt amazingly healthy and wonderful to me. But it didn't last. One of the problems we continually faced was that he immediately demanded I give up my male friends and hobbies (salsa dancing is a big hobby of mine). I can understand being jealous, but he would always have been welcome wherever I went if we lived in the same city, so I didn't feel like I was doing anything wrong. I also admit that during the first few weeks of being together, I continued to go out with friends to parties and didn't tell everyone I had a boyfriend right from the getgo. I was not unfaithful, per se, but I was probably still conducting myself somewhat like a single person. Day by day, that felt less right to me so I gave those things up and made it very clear to everyone in my life how committed I was to my boyfriend and ready to really give it a good shot with him. To me, this felt like a natural progression.

 

All of the demands he made on me, however, made me reluctant to take care of myself and pursue interests during the week. Whenever I would try to talk to him about it, because I wanted to find activities he would be ok with me doing, it turned into a big fight. He considers having lunch or going on a walk with a single male friend a date. I do not. And I can see how those things fall by the wayside naturally over time, but I just didn't think it was fair to demand it from the start.

 

Not taking care of myself led to me being grumpy and resentful. I see that now. I just want to start over. In rehashing the relationship, he's told me how by the time I "turned the corner" and gave up my friendships, he was exhausted and didn't trust me.

 

He had a picture on his phone he was really proud of. One day, I gently tried to bring up that I felt like I needed to have activities during the week so I wouldn't pine so hard for him. But that meant taking dance classes or things where I might meet guys and they would talk to me. He got so upset that the next time I saw him, the picture wasn't on his phone. He told me, "I got so upset at the thought of you hanging out with these other guys that I looked and looked at your picture and every time I saw it it bothered me."

 

I'm torn between feeling like I've done something horribly wrong and I can just fix it and feeling like he was not being reasonable.

 

In the end, I guess it doesn't matter because the relationship is over (no matter how badly I wish it weren't).

 

OP most of the women in this forum will tell you he was very controlling. I see it in a very different way.

 

I've had similar issues (although I'm not as controlling). The problem is that while to you continuing living the single life was "a normal transition". He probably saw it as something that broke his trust. Guys do not think about transitions. They think 0 or 1. Black or white. In a relationship or out. When he was in a relationship with you he expected you to be fully committed to him, which it seems like you weren't. (AND YES, going for a walk with a guy, for NO REASON is A DATE. Now if you need to go somewhere, or need to have lunch at school/work that's different)

 

He is controlling, but I don't view that as much of a bad thing as people here claim. Being from a conservative countries, let me tell you what's the rate that people cheat on each other when they're controlling. LESS THAN 5%. Would you rather have a bf, who whenever he got insecure went and got his fix with female attention, or one that came and complained to you about it? (And don't tell me you want someone that is never insecure... PERFECT PEOPLE DON'T EXIST).

 

Bottom line there is a few things to determine.

- Where do you stand and where's your balance. You have to know exactly how much freedom you want in an R. Too much - why be in a relationship at all?, Too little - It becomes suffocating.

- After you understand where your balance is, you need to convey this to your man confidently. If you're going out with your girls, tell him exactly what will happen. You go out, have a drink, socialize, maybe have small talk with people independently of their gender, maybe guys will hit on you and you WILL NEVER give your number out, or see this people outside of that place or FLIRT with them. Making SET RULES, will keep him at peace (again think 0-1 mentality).

- DO NOT BREAK THIS RULES. Until any circumstance. Remember you're making your man a promise, a compromise if you will. Relationships are made of compromises and if you cannot keep them then why be in a relationship at all.

 

Side question: Why do you like salsa for example? At the end of the day you might say it's a hobby, but one where it gives you social and physical outlet to numerous males...

What would happen if a really good looking guy came to you with some great salsa knowledge and made you move like you didn't know you could. Would you really stop yourself from getting to know this guy? Are you sure this wouldn't affect your relationship at all?

Would you be OK if your bf went out to clubs and started talking and dancing with many girls? This are the type of questions you need to answer honestly before you can openly say what you want and what you don't.

[LoveIs]

Neither one of you is doing anything wrong other than trying to have a relationship that you guys aren't right for. He wants a serious relationship that is headed for marriage and you are still in the "girls just want to have fun" stage. Face the fact that your relationship with him isn't working and isn't likely to magically start working and end it.

 

This isn't true at all. I want a serious relationship that is headed toward marriage too. We live in different cities. Therefor, I cannot spend time with him every day of the week and can't just sit at home while he goes out with his guy friends and feel fulfilled. I am definitely not in a "girls just want to have fun" stage at all. I wanted to have a family with this guy and was seriously considering moving to be with him.

[LoveIs]

OP most of the women in this forum will tell you he was very controlling. I see it in a very different way.

 

I've had similar issues (although I'm not as controlling). The problem is that while to you continuing living the single life was "a normal transition". He probably saw it as something that broke his trust. Guys do not think about transitions. They think 0 or 1. Black or white. In a relationship or out. When he was in a relationship with you he expected you to be fully committed to him, which it seems like you weren't. (AND YES, going for a walk with a guy, for NO REASON is A DATE. Now if you need to go somewhere, or need to have lunch at school/work that's different)

 

He is controlling, but I don't view that as much of a bad thing as people here claim. Being from a conservative countries, let me tell you what's the rate that people cheat on each other when they're controlling. LESS THAN 5%. Would you rather have a bf, who whenever he got insecure went and got his fix with female attention, or one that came and complained to you about it? (And don't tell me you want someone that is never insecure... PERFECT PEOPLE DON'T EXIST).

 

Bottom line there is a few things to determine.

- Where do you stand and where's your balance. You have to know exactly how much freedom you want in an R. Too much - why be in a relationship at all?, Too little - It becomes suffocating.

- After you understand where your balance is, you need to convey this to your man confidently. If you're going out with your girls, tell him exactly what will happen. You go out, have a drink, socialize, maybe have small talk with people independently of their gender, maybe guys will hit on you and you WILL NEVER give your number out, or see this people outside of that place or FLIRT with them. Making SET RULES, will keep him at peace (again think 0-1 mentality).

- DO NOT BREAK THIS RULES. Until any circumstance. Remember you're making your man a promise, a compromise if you will. Relationships are made of compromises and if you cannot keep them then why be in a relationship at all.

 

Side question: Why do you like salsa for example? At the end of the day you might say it's a hobby, but one where it gives you social and physical outlet to numerous males...

What would happen if a really good looking guy came to you with some great salsa knowledge and made you move like you didn't know you could. Would you really stop yourself from getting to know this guy? Are you sure this wouldn't affect your relationship at all?

Would you be OK if your bf went out to clubs and started talking and dancing with many girls? This are the type of questions you need to answer honestly before you can openly say what you want and what you don't.

 

 

I agree with everything you are saying here, for the most part. BUT I don't think you can jump into a relationship and expect that a woman all of the sudden is ready to jump right in like that. It took me time to feel out that hanging out with guy friends wasn't as comfortable as I thought and to let those friendships off. I never gave out my number.

 

The bottom line is that I feel awful. That I needed a balance and in giving up some things, I gave up EVERYTHING for fear that reasonable things would make him uncomfortable. For example, I was telling him a story about an interesting lady I met at my crossfit gym; some guy had brought his mother in and I had talked to her for a bit. He kept on asking, "WHO is that GUY?" But I get what you're saying, by then, he just didn't really trust me, even though I was completely devoted to him.

 

To me, I can fix it. I can do the activities that are normal and not go dancing, whatever. Find new things. If we lived in the same city it wouldn't be a big deal. Anyway, I feel awful and he ended it. I can understand why. Do you think there's any way to explain that I see his reasoning and that I'm ready for the kind of relationship he wants?

[IAmRobot]

I agree with everything you are saying here, for the most part. BUT I don't think you can jump into a relationship and expect that a woman all of the sudden is ready to jump right in like that. It took me time to feel out that hanging out with guy friends wasn't as comfortable as I thought and to let those friendships off. I never gave out my number.

 

The bottom line is that I feel awful. That I needed a balance and in giving up some things, I gave up EVERYTHING for fear that reasonable things would make him uncomfortable. For example, I was telling him a story about an interesting lady I met at my crossfit gym; some guy had brought his mother in and I had talked to her for a bit. He kept on asking, "WHO is that GUY?" But I get what you're saying, by then, he just didn't really trust me, even though I was completely devoted to him.

 

To me, I can fix it. I can do the activities that are normal and not go dancing, whatever. Find new things. If we lived in the same city it wouldn't be a big deal. Anyway, I feel awful and he ended it. I can understand why. Do you think there's any way to explain that I see his reasoning and that I'm ready for the kind of relationship he wants?

 

I think the term relationship has certain expectations. When you gave up hanging out one on one with your guy friends it seemed like you only thought about what you felt and what was comfortable and it didn't even cross your mind that it might affect him (and therefore you since you're together).

 

Now I don't blame you and most people are like you, but I can also see his point and how he was hurt by that.

 

If you really wanna fix this... then I absolutely think you can .

 

First off, while I said that I can see his point of view, doesn't mean that he is right into every little insecurity that he makes. For example he makes a big deal out of some random guy, whose mom was at the gym..? You listen to him, tell him you love him, support him all the way through. However when he can see more rational tell him that as constructive feedback he shouldn't make a big deal out of this things. That you'll support him all the way through, because you love him, but that doesn't make him right.

 

Secondly, focus on positives. Have you ever had a day where you cooked for him, or bought him a little present, made love like bunnies and he got insecure?? NOOOO. Why is that? Because that reassures him of your love. People (girls and guys) always want to be loved. Being able to communicate your love is one of the most difficult things to do, because it makes you vulnerable, but it also makes the other person feel more secure.

 

Lastly, always, always, always share with him. And tell him that you're doing that. Tell him that you'll tell him exactly what's on your mind so he doesn't doubt you for one bit. Explain to him how you view salsa dancing, or going out with friends. Tell him the last paragraph of that you wrote here. Good or bad always tell him. That will be good in the long run and will make him feel like your actions and talk match up, hence will believe you a lot more.

 

Bonus points: He wants to see that you can handle yourself. So either present, or past, tell him stories about when you rejected man. That will make him sure that you know how to handle attention and you won't fall over for the next cutie pie who's gonna wink at you.

 

PS: You still didn't tell me why you like salsa dancing? Again referring to my question below - What would happen if a really good looking guy came to you with some great salsa knowledge and made you move like you didn't know you could. Would you really stop yourself from getting to know this guy? Are you sure this wouldn't affect your relationship at all? If you're comfortable that dancing wouldn't affect your R in any way, then you should not give it up.

[LoveIs]

The salsa dancing is more like a puzzle to me. It's not about flirting. It's about the challenge of moving and anticipating what someone is telling you to do and then doing it with your own style, if that makes sense. For me it's more like, "oh we just executed that pattern really well, awesome!" not about the guy I'm dancing with. Obviously a lot of people go to dance to hit on and pick up people, but that's not me. I would have NO desire to pursue anything other than another dance with someone that I danced really well with. I took him salsa dancing so he could see what it was about and could see how I danced with my friends. After that, he really didn't have a problem with it. BUT, I feel a little hurt because I believe he should trust me and I shouldn't have to prove myself every step of the way.

 

I don't know if I can fix this. He's broken up with me and I'm not sure he wants to hear anything I have to say. I have an appointment with my counselor today and will be seeking his advice too. He's agreed to talk to me tonight, but I have this terrible feeling that he is just done and won't listen to the fact that I can see his viewpoint and would like very much to honor it. The last few weeks we hadn't gotten along very well and I think this has a LOT to do with it. I don't think he will believe that or be willing to give it a shot or care. I don't know.

 

We both said some heated and mean things to each other. I'm sure he will cite that as a reason not to get back together. I just feel sick over all of this.

 

I'm all ears if you have suggestions on what I can say that can convey how sorry I am.

Edited August 21, 2013 by LoveIs

[IAmRobot]

I'm all ears if you have suggestions on what I can say that can convey how sorry I am.

 

Actions speak louder than words. Don't be sorry. Just send him a small gift that will remind him of you, or bake something for him and send it to him somehow. Do something without expecting anything in return.

 

The whole "I AM SORRY", doesn't work because noone really gives a **** if you're sorry, people wanna just look forward and know the future will be brighter. By being sorry you're reminding him that there was very bad stuff happening.

 

Just be positive and loving and caring. If he doesn't appreciate that then you'll have to move on.

[drifter777]

This isn't true at all. I want a serious relationship that is headed toward marriage too. We live in different cities. Therefor, I cannot spend time with him every day of the week and can't just sit at home while he goes out with his guy friends and feel fulfilled. I am definitely not in a "girls just want to have fun" stage at all. I wanted to have a family with this guy and was seriously considering moving to be with him.

Then either give up those things that are deal-breakers for him or don't. You wish he would be ok with your activities but clearly he's not and isn't likely to change any time soon.Wishing for something hardly ever works.

[LoveIs]

Then either give up those things that are deal-breakers for him or don't. You wish he would be ok with your activities but clearly he's not and isn't likely to change any time soon.Wishing for something hardly ever works.

 

No. I'm wishing he would give me the opportunity to get on the same page with him on this. And I don't mind giving up SOME activities, I really don't. But it had gotten to the point where I recognized I needed some activities during the week and felt like I had to ask for permission (Is a knitting circle ok? There might be some guys there, but they will likely be gay, is that all right?), all he could hear was that I wanted to go out where there would be men. How do I convey that isn't the case?

[The Way I Am]

On the one hand, I can see his perspective that he's jealous of you spending time with other men. But on the other, it seems like you've put a lot of effort into easing his suspicions. You've gone beyond what's reasonable, and that's still not enough for him.

 

It'd be a different matter if you had absolutely refused to change or compromise in any way to make him comfortable. Then I could understand his insecurities escalating. But you've given up a lot of what you enjoy to make him happy, and it still didn't ease his insecurity.

 

He had a picture on his phone he was really proud of. One day, I gently tried to bring up that I felt like I needed to have activities during the week so I wouldn't pine so hard for him. But that meant taking dance classes or things where I might meet guys and they would talk to me. He got so upset that the next time I saw him, the picture wasn't on his phone. He told me, "I got so upset at the thought of you hanging out with these other guys that I looked and looked at your picture and every time I saw it it bothered me."

 

That seems manipulative -- like he was punishing you for wanting to have a life outside of him. Red flag.

 

Do you think there's any way to explain that I see his reasoning and that I'm ready for the kind of relationship he wants?

 

Do you really want the kind of relationship he wants though? It sounds like he wants your life to revolve only around him. Do you really want a relationship where you feel like you have to ask permission for every single thing you do?

[LoveIs]

That seems manipulative -- like he was punishing you for wanting to have a life outside of him. Red flag.

 

 

 

Do you really want the kind of relationship he wants though? It sounds like he wants your life to revolve only around him. Do you really want a relationship where you feel like you have to ask permission for every single thing you do?

 

I thought it seemed manipulative too. Another time he just cut off texting, saying he didn't feel connected or feel like texting me after some conversation we had. I don't think he means me not to have a life outside of him. I just feel like I screwed up because at the beginning, I really wasn't ready to commit to him in that way, I was nervous because of the previous experience I had had with him. If I had realized his perspective sooner, maybe this miserable **** wouldn't be happening.

 

Nonetheless, I see his perspective and feel like he didn't understand truly what it was that I wanted. No, I don't want to ask permission. I want to be trusted. If an activity feels uncomfortable, I want him to trust me to not do it!

 

Bottom line, I'm more than willing to meet...not even in the middle. But I don't think he cares. It's like he's just decided I'm not a worthy person anymore. Or what I am offering is just too little, too late.

Edited August 21, 2013 by LoveIs

[The Way I Am]

I just feel like I screwed up because at the beginning, I really wasn't ready to commit to him in that way, I was nervous because of the previous experience I had had with him.

 

It's perfectly reasonable to be cautious when resuming a relationship with someone who broke up with you.

 

May I ask why he broke up with you the first time? Was it because you cheated or anything that would cause him to have such a lack of trust the second time?

[LoveIs]

It's perfectly reasonable to be cautious when resuming a relationship with someone who broke up with you.

 

May I ask why he broke up with you the first time? Was it because you cheated or anything that would cause him to have such a lack of trust the second time?

 

No. He never emotionally invested the first time. He had to study for the bar and cited that as a reason to not be able to have any distractions like a relationship. It was heartbreaking then and he definitely jerked me around a lot before making that decision. I'm just not wired to be unfaithful.

 

And in other news, he had something come up and can't talk tonight, but appreciates my understanding. Obviously I have to bite my tongue and just say, "have fun." But it hurts.

 

Why do I feel like a mouse being batted around by a cat?

 

Short text message exchange that leaves me feeling ambiguous. He accepts my apologies, says he should have let me come round on my own initially instead of pressing so hard, says he didn't fall out of love with me, but gives no indication of wanting a relationship.

Edited August 22, 2013 by LoveIs

[The Way I Am]

No. He never emotionally invested the first time. He had to study for the bar and cited that as a reason to not be able to have any distractions like a relationship. It was heartbreaking then and he definitely jerked me around a lot before making that decision.

 

In that case, you really had reason to be cautious. Someone can't reasonably expect to jerk another person around and say they don't want a relationship then do a 180 and expect that person to immediately be 100% invested. He needed to prove that he was really invested this time before he should have expected you to risk fully investing in him a second time.

 

He's lucky you gave him another chance at all. You must really love him.

 

I think he's being really self-centered. You don't owe him an apology for not completely investing in him from day 1. The only thing you did wrong was not effectively communicate your need to take it slow until you trusted that he wouldn't be pulling the same thing he did before.

 

And in other news, he had something come up and can't talk tonight, but appreciates my understanding. Obviously I have to bite my tongue and just say, "have fun." But it hurts.

 

Why do I feel like a mouse being batted around by a cat?

 

Short text message exchange that leaves me feeling ambiguous. He accepts my apologies, says he should have let me come round on my own initially instead of pressing so hard, says he didn't fall out of love with me, but gives no indication of wanting a relationship.

 

I don't know about this guy. He sounds like a d*uchebag, but you seem level-headed and find him appealing, so I give you the benefit of the doubt that there's something worth while about him.

 

Let him know how you feel and what you want. Also put your foot down about his controlling behavior. Let him know you know 1 on 1 time with other guys is off limits, but he can't restrict you from everything where you could possibly speak to another male. Do not take him back unless he agrees that you're allowed to have your innocent hobbies like salsa dancing. And if you do get back together, call him out when he's being unreasonable.

 

This relationship has a lot working against it. 2 break-ups now and long distance. It's going to take a lot of effort.

[LoveIs]

This relationship has a lot working against it. 2 break-ups now and long distance. It's going to take a lot of effort.

 

And this is the nail in the coffin. Because he repeatedly says things like, "It's just not supposed to be this hard," and "I don't want to stress and I don't even want to put in the same level of effort I was putting in before."

 

Yeah, how level headed do I sound that I want to be with this guy?

[The Way I Am]

And this is the nail in the coffin. Because he repeatedly says things like, "It's just not supposed to be this hard," and "I don't want to stress and I don't even want to put in the same level of effort I was putting in before."

 

I've heard that one before. Not a good sign. I think you might be better off.

 

Yeah, how level headed do I sound that I want to be with this guy?

 

Nobody's perfect.

[giblesp]

It seems like he cant trust you, possibly because of his own issues and nothing to do with you. If you've explained the salsa thing to him as you've explained it here and he still doesn't trust you, then its probably not going to happen.

 

Never give up the things you love for someone, if dancing is your passion then dont stop. There is alot of sexual energy in salsa, but if you're not indulging in then a BF will have to learn to trust.

 

Do bear in mind, that will be a little challenging for some guys as salsa gets pretty intimate and the men you're dancing with, some of them have one thing on their mind. I dated a salsa girl once, the scene wasn't for me and it was her passion. We weren't compatible so I let her go, and that was the right thing for us both.

 

The right guy for you will add to your passion, share it with you.

[LoveIs]

Good lord, stop bending yourself into a pretzel for this controlling jerkoff. You've done everything but lay down and let him wipe his shoes off on your back.

 

Get your pride back and dump his worthless ass.

 

I wish it was that easy. Part of the desire for reconciliation and the guilt stems from reading posts on this forum that lead me to understand his perspective a bit more.

[giblesp]

But there's nothing for you to feel guilty about, you've done nothing wrong and that's what people here are saying. The man you're talking about, he's been an insecure little boy.