Financial Support from MM

[eleanorrigby]

You are correct....But sometimes people just cant muster the courage to say they are struggling...Its a normal part of being prideful and I cant see how that can be construed as weak or insecure..

 

When I was starting out and some business dealings backfired, I could have saved myself some time and aggravation by reaching out. I didnt, and it nearly drove me to the nearest suspension bridge..I hate the whole idea of being needy...Its against everything in me..

 

TFY

That's me, I'd almost rather let it all go down the tubes then ask for help.

Help always seems to come with a million strings attached, and/or opening myself up to comments about how I let myself get in that position to begin with.

So I get that, it sucks balls to need help.

[Got it]

Umm

 

Lets not get carried away...I only bought a few things that she could have easily bought herself-just did it to be kind to someone that meant something to me and was kind in return. .If I had to foot that kind of stuff you are talking about I wouldnt do it..Thats not demonstrating a real need, IMO.

 

Nor would I placate some OW that thinks she can expect me to hand over the keys to the city because she was so kind to allow me to screw her..

 

TFY

 

Definitely every situation is different. We pretty much split cost and his share of things was more use of points, etc. I was cognizant of his additional responsibilities of supporting a family so while I expected him to step up there are creative ways to do so. Because I have a father who shows love through money, just the easy use of giving money doesn't do it for me. I don't care about the price, I care about the energy into it.

 

But in my case, if you were comparing dollars to doughnuts I spent more. *shrug* I am okay with that.

[hermione08]

The point is not whether she should accept or not, but that he should offer.

Which he did not. Therefore he could not care less about her, whatever she may think.

[Got it]

Well here is where I bark.....so many OW and GFs act as if they never want to put financial stress on the MM or BF...as if they actually relish the poor me role...and I have a problem with that.

 

It's as if they don't deserve it....and by keeping their mouth shut about their TRUE SITUATION gains them brownie points, some false sense of independence and the perpetuation of the poor me, I'm a victim, mentality.

 

None of this makes sense to me.

 

To me, if your life is spiraling into the financial toilet, YOU TELL PEOPLE.

 

If you want to be proud, unasking, and still grudgingly accept their financial assistance.....that's passive aggressive.

 

And if you never disclose, or ask, your lover, partner for help, that is just really, really insecure to me.

 

WHAT? you are afraid if you aske for something, something for you and your kids to survive, he may not like you anymore? PULLEAZE!

 

How LITTLE. Do you think you are worth?????????

 

See I see this differently. Asking for a hand out represents not thinking much of myself. Figuring it out for myself is more important.

 

I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine, who is divorced, and we were discussing finances and money and not understanding people who are financially dependent on others. It is such a vulnerable state to be in and when you make the money its your money. You know that you can support yourself and you are not left in a position to have to fight someone for it.

 

To me it is about figuring it out for one's self. I can get a loan, etc. but especially if it is someone that isn't blood family, I don't get it. But I also don't get having kids when one isn't in a good financial spot either that the need to have kids takes precedence over whether it is actually a good idea in the big picture. But another topic for another day.

[MissBee]

The point is not whether she should accept or not, but that he should offer.

Which he did not. Therefore he could not care less about her, whatever she may think.

 

That's the way I see it.

 

2sure's friend clearly doesn't have any entitlement issues, neither has she asked this man for anything.

 

However, if he claims he loves her and is planning a future with her and her kids...yet he is oblivious to her struggles after being together 6 years OR isn't oblivious but has never offered his help, when it is well within his means, then I'm sorry I don't see how many ways this can be interpreted.

 

I've never dated any struggling men, neither have I been in a position where I'm blatantly struggling in a relationship, but esp in college, I was an undergrad who had money to live on but the men I dated often already had careers and made more money than I did. I never asked for anything, didn't need anything, but they knew that I was a student and they weren't, and many had more responsibilities than I did, but still more money and so willingly assumed the lion's share of costs because of it. We split the bill sometimes, but it only made sense to them that they cared about me and loved me and they had it to spend more than I did, so why not. So sorry...if a man is wealthy, which is what it seems like from 2sure's post, and is dating a struggling single mom, and he isn't at all aware of the difference in their means and doesn't volunteer when he claims he loves her and implies they have a future...I can't take it seriously that he is genuinely invested in this woman and her children as his future .

Edited August 23, 2013 by MissBee

[thefooloftheyear]

To be completely honest even though my deal is now just a part of my past, and I need not rehash all the negative shyt surrounding it, if she reached out to me 2 years from now and was in a bad spot, Id be reaching for my checkbook...Id never be able to completely turn my back on her. I couldnt do it...

 

TFY

[William]

Fifteen postings deleted; some others edited, three infractions, one member on moderation.

 

Anything else?

 

Topic folks, and keep it civil. Thanks.

[2sure]

I think affairs are a horrible abuse inflicted on BS, I think they are the worst kind escapism for MM, and I think they are soul robbing for OW. Many times here on this board I've interjected objections to OW's rationalizations , justifications, and excuses for participating in infidelity. Most of the people I relate to here are BS, probably because becoming one to me was the most traumatic period of my life.

I get really aggravated when some OW , I think, manipulate reality even anonymously on line, to make their affair OK.

 

But I'm not aggravated just on policy. I don't think most OW woke up one day and decided to be OW. They definitely Decided, but it wasn't an all of the sudden thing. It didn't happen by accident because you formed a friendship that developed into a an affair. It started happening with whatever circumstances in your life led you to a place to accept this kind of unbalanced, disadvantageous relationship. When I say "you" , if this doesn't apply to you personally, then I don't mean you! Still, myself and many OW here didn't think it applied to them either. You learn it the hard way. I've come to think maybe it isn't something you can tell someone that isn't ready to hear it. It literally hurts me to see some OW, like my friend, traveling this path. It's like getting to the bottom of your pit and shoveling. I wouldn't want it for my daughter, my friend, or you. And I feel strongly about it, because it's a common occurrence .

 

I don't know how my friend is going to get out of this. It's easy for me to tell her the things we say here. No Contact. Expose. Get a better job. Find a single man.

Common sense. But in looking at her and knowing her current situation, I remember a time when I didn't have that common sense myself.

 

Right here on LS back in maybe 2009, I posted something about some people, including myself, became OW because they don't realize how wrong it is. Another poster responded to me that how is that possible? It's common sense to most people. Decent people. They know it instinctually and don't have to LEARN it. Like knowing not to steal. I've remembered that post and thought about it all these years because it was at that point that I had to ask myself: Why was this something I thought was OK? It began a long journey of self reflection for me, I found my answers too. It was TBF, not a poster I generally have much in common with, just a short unremarkable post. I haven't looked it up because it's imbedded in my memory.

 

So, my friend divorced her husband three years into the affair and is waiting for MM. He says he is getting his ducks in order, children finished with college, before he leaves. Plausible. Not an unusual time of life to divorce. But meanwhile, she is basing her future, whether he helps her financially right now or not, on him. And it seems so clear to me that this is foolishness. Or at best, a waste of time. Waiting, what quality of life is that?

 

Personally, I think if she is waiting, he should be showing more investment in the relationship than words. If he can't show the investment in any other way, it should be financial. I think she will not let go of this relationship because it's the one she has. He accepts her limits, baggage, etc. because what's it to him? A single partner willing o accept the same with no reservations hasn't shown up for her. She isn't going to let go of the hope.

[bentleychic]

See I see this differently. Asking for a hand out represents not thinking much of myself. Figuring it out for myself is more important.

 

I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine, who is divorced, and we were discussing finances and money and not understanding people who are financially dependent on others. It is such a vulnerable state to be in and when you make the money its your money. You know that you can support yourself and you are not left in a position to have to fight someone for it.

 

To me it is about figuring it out for one's self. I can get a loan, etc. but especially if it is someone that isn't blood family, I don't get it. But .

 

YES! I've done it on my own and, quite honestly, I am stronger for it. I feel better about myself due to it. It's hard sometimes (b/c I do make good money, but I also have several kids), but I am determined to never be fully independent on anyone ever again. Call it pride, call it stupidity, call it whatever you want, but I am better off for it and I hope my kids are learning how to be strong and responsible for themselves when they are adults.

[MissBee]

If I were a BS, and MM gave the OW a mineral rock he found on a hike they went on, that was ribboned with OW favorite color, polished it up so it was beautiful like she and he swore it sparkled like her gorgeous eyes. THAT would make me more upset than if her bought her a $200 new dress from the mall. Thats all I'm saying.

 

Honesty time.

 

That so called thoughtful, caring mm of yours....left you and ran for the hills to save his own azz and left you with a violent man.

 

Want to know why?

 

Baubles and cheap talk....that is the worth he has set on you.

 

You either accept his valuation or you set your own

 

A rock with a ribbon on it or a $200 dress are still THINGS!

 

Whether you give me a thing you bought or a thing you made...that gift of a THING is incomparable to how you've shown my worth to you when it really counted and when my safety was in danger which is: you ran for the hills and sent me 500 text messages from the safety of your home then asked me to drop your broken necklace off to be fixed....yeppp that ribboned rock really makes up for it though.

[2sure]

The idea of financially supporting an AP smacks too much of a prostitute/ Mistress/ Golddigger/Gigolo relationship for any OW/OM who has any self -esteem to be very comfortable with, IMO. 2sure, in your friends situation the danger is that she become dependent on his finances and IF the relationship goes south, then what?

It's like the old saying" you can do it for love or you can do it for money" Mixing the two is a really, really bad idea. At least, if there is no financial gain for the OW?OM , at least you have the illusion of equality.

 

 

To me, it's for the most part all illusion. In the case of single OW and MM, I am of the opinion there is even more illusion than with two married APs. I realize my personal experience jades me on this subject, but I do think single OW offers much more as far as an escape to MM than he offers her. I think doing it for love robs OW .

 

And seriously, what is it that MM has to offer OW? pieces of love and affection here and there. But if he goes further and makes the quality of her life easier or more comfortable like he might anyone he loves....she is a gold digger? Oh yes, god forbid an affair actually work for anyone but MM. Some here have implied there is a difference if married man is giving her things she doesn't actually need given. That if she can support herself, giving gifts (gifts being relative) is ok. But if she needs or wants financial support , that's not OK. Again, it's pointing out that OW must remain an optional part of MMs life, and that he must never be obliged to her. Highlighting that financial support changes the dynamics of the affair, even to OW...I don't get it. If OW is emotionally supported by MM what's the difference except that being emotionally supportive or committed is a pretty easy obligation to offer, or lie about, or get out of.

[velvette]

To me, it's for the most part all illusion. In the case of single OW and MM, I am of the opinion there is even more illusion than with two married APs. I realize my personal experience jades me on this subject, but I do think single OW offers much more as far as an escape to MM than he offers her. I think doing it for love robs OW .

 

And seriously, what is it that MM has to offer OW? pieces of love and affection here and there. But if he goes further and makes the quality of her life easier or more comfortable like he might anyone he loves....she is a gold digger? Oh yes, god forbid an affair actually work for anyone but MM. Some here have implied there is a difference if married man is giving her things she doesn't actually need given. That if she can support herself, giving gifts (gifts being relative) is ok. But if she needs or wants financial support , that's not OK. Again, it's pointing out that OW must remain an optional part of MMs life, and that he must never be obliged to her. Highlighting that financial support changes the dynamics of the affair, even to OW...I don't get it. If OW is emotionally supported by MM what's the difference except that being emotionally supportive or committed is a pretty easy obligation to offer, or lie about, or get out of.

 

To me being an OW expecting financial support is no different than marrying for money or so you will be taken care of financially. They are both a bad idea imo. Far better and healthier to put your energy into ensuring you can support yourself in whatever style you want to live.

[2sure]

To me being an OW expecting financial support is no different than marrying for money or so you will be taken care of financially. They are both a bad idea imo. Far better and healthier to put your energy into ensuring you can support yourself in whatever style you want to live.

 

Absolutely! Agree 110%. I just think an OW accepting financial support isnt any different than an OW accepting emotional support from MM. The difference being that only one of those things is more action than imagination.

[hermione08]

No one says you have to expect anything, but you would assume that the man who claims to love you would see that you are in dire straits and try to hep. It does not have to be cash, he could help with the redecoration of her house, bring her some fresh fruit and other groceries...there are a million ways to help if you want to. And you expect your loved one to be there when you need him/her.

[underwater2010]

Unless she is raising his biological child....NO!!! Her finances are her responsibility. Not that of her AP. If he choses to bestow a gift of cash then so be it, but she has no right to expect nor ask for money from his martial accounts. Sorry but that is the problem when you "date" married men. Future game plan or not.

[velvette]

Absolutely! Agree 110%. I just think an OW accepting financial support isnt any different than an OW accepting emotional support from MM. The difference being that only one of those things is more action than imagination.

 

To me there is still no way around the fact that the money of a MM belongs to his wife as well. Take it, have it spent on you, you are in my book stealing from her. Anyway you look at it until a court apportions it differently it belongs totally to both of them.

[hermione08]

I'm not surprised a BW would think that. It's only natural

By the way, this is one of the reasons I'm totally against marriage. I can't stand this "your money is my money" thing. My money is my money and I would not want a man to share what's mine because of a contract.

If I decide to share it it's because I want to. And I think the same for a man, unless he forces his wife to stay at home instead of working.

Edited August 23, 2013 by hermione08

[sweet_pea]

I'm not surprised a BW would think that. It's only natural

 

I don't think that's just something a BS thinks. I would pissed if my SO spent our money (yes, I said our) on things that he never discussed with me.

[hermione08]

Obviously if he spent it on another woman you should be pissed not for the money but for the betrayal.

If you mean that you would be pissed if he spent it on a new coat without asking you, that's a bit OTT...

Edited August 23, 2013 by hermione08

[sweet_pea]

Obviously if he spent it on another woman you should be pissed not for the money but for the betrayal.

If you mean that you would be pissed if he spent it on a new coat without asking you, that's bit OTT...

 

Firstly, I would be pissed over the betrayal and the money, duh. Money spent on another woman that could be used for paying bills, taking a nice vacation, and so on covers both aspects and would make me mad.

 

I figured people would get what I meant when I said spending money without discussing, but obviously not I wasn't counting things like gifts to me/family... what I was talking about was spending money via buying other people presents, gambling, excessive spending, etc without a discussion/behind my back/hiding said spending/etc. would also get me upset. Anywho, hopefully someone else gets my point.

[sweet_pea]

I should also add, if someone were mad at their SO for spending money on a new coat without telling them, I don't even really think that's "OTT" (which means?). Not everyone can spend money on anything they want, some people live within small means and must budget everything and if my SO and I discussed a budget and laid out that we were spending money on this, this and this, and that a coat would have to wait because we couldn't afford to get it at that moment, and SO went ahead and got the coat without telling meanyway... YEPPPP, I'd be upset

[AlwaysGrowing]

Betrayal over money is very serious. It ends marriages. When you have someone who spends freely 'cause you know "its my money", then doesn't have the funds to help pay for gifts to family members, furniture, vehicles, vacations..etc. And the other party is left paying the bills all the time...sticking to a budget...it is a betrayal.

 

And it hurts, because the other party is affected..and left with having to clean or help clean it up.

[Red Wolverine]

I'm a little late but...

 

xMM and I both make very good incomes, however he still makes 2 1/2 times what I do. Still, he had very strong feelings about paying for things.

 

Financial independence is a big deal to me because I pride myself on living within my means. I do not have debt and never did, even when I made very little.

 

One point of contention was his business trips. I always insisted on booking and paying for my flights. He didn't like it but he dealt with it in his own way... Upgrading me to first class, room service, etc.

 

Main point here is that money didn't really matter. He knew I liked a particular protein bar so he bought me a huge box of them. He lost his Bluetooth for his phone on a trip so I bought him a replacement. Give and take with no expectations.

 

Friends, family, others you love... You help when you can. Easier when you have more money but the intentions are the same. I always had those intentions, especially with family, even when I had very little to give.

[2sure]

Betrayal over money is very serious. It ends marriages. When you have someone who spends freely 'cause you know "its my money", then doesn't have the funds to help pay for gifts to family members, furniture, vehicles, vacations..etc. And the other party is left paying the bills all the time...sticking to a budget...it is a betrayal.

 

And it hurts, because the other party is affected..and left with having to clean or help clean it up.

 

So, your feeling is that of course, the affair is betrayal but if financial betrayal were brought into it, it would be an ADDITIONAL betrayal? Almost a seperate betrayal? Saying in that way myself, it does seem to make it worse.

[2sure]

Really, I admit myself, that all my ranting has turned out be my idea that this is just yet another reason OW having an affair with a MM is not a parallel relationship, not equal but different. It's not a good idea. Even for a self sufficient OW, you have to think about the idea that...if someday you did need help from MM...there are even more things preventing him from helping you than preventing him from having an affair. It seems as though, on this principal, he probably won't.

 

Nice to not need help, but in a true relationship, you know you can depend on your partner. In an affair, apparently that's over the top , not just to BS, but to other OW, and to MM.

 

I think it's all a load of crap.