Cultures where it's acceptable to cheat

[fanine]

I just wondered if anyone else has been involved with a MM or MW who comes from a culture where having more than one partner is acceptable?

 

With getting over my xMM, this has been one of the hardest things for me to deal with. To cut a long story short, I thought he was separated when we met....it was not quite like that. I met all his friends in the early stages, they became good friends to me. I had no idea they knew he was basically still with his wife. They came from his home country. They saw no problem with him seeing me on the side....I went to his home country and met his family. Not knowing that they knew I was the OW. They were lovely to me, treated me like one of the family.

 

I found out down the line that basically where he comes from, it is totally normal for married people to have maybe one, two, three or maybe even four (mostly) women on the side to a marriage. The people there don't see an issue with it. Some will live abroad and be married there, but then back home will have a partner too, that knows fully about the wife or husband in the other country. It does not seem to bother them at all.

 

Down the line I found out that my xMM had got a woman pregnant in his home country. He would be telling me how much I meant to him, yet wasvemailing this woman all the time saying she was the love of his life, and then have a wife with kids back home!

 

We went back to his home country a second time. I found out afterwards he was visiting her there, while I was in the country as well.. she didn't seem fussed that he was spending every night with me. As long as he made a couple of visits to her...

 

I cannot understand how people can do this. Once I found everything out it was like hitting my head against a brick wall. His logic was, well when I was with him he was good to me, so it did not matter what he did when he was not with me......so basically lying, cheating, being unfaithful (plus the possibility of STDs) was nothing I should complain about.

 

I find it all very hard to comprehend...

[rumbleseat]

I can't speak for every culture, but I did know a woman who grew up in a culture where infidelity was not exactly embraced, but people turned a blind eye.

 

Her husband had an OW, and the pain was the same for her as if she had been from my culture, where infidelity is frowned upon. She fekt compelled to hide her feelings, but when she emigrated to my country, she was surprised and relieved by the difference in attitude towards infidelity.

 

She no longer felt alone or that she had to accept his cheating, and once she was working and had saved enough, she left him.

[Owl]

Fanine, I'm curious...in xMM's culture, are the betrayed wives and husbands equally accepting of infidelity in that role?

 

Would his wife have welcomed you with open arms and as a close friend/sister-wife?

 

Would she not have been emotionally devestated/angry/hurt by the situation?

 

That's something that's always seemed off to me. It's acceptable in a culture...except by those betrayed? Non-sequiter.

 

If it's acceptable by everyone, and no one is hurt/betrayed by it...that's a much different circumstance, but not one I've seen actually demonstrated anywhere.

[fanine]

Fanine, I'm curious...in xMM's culture, are the betrayed wives and husbands equally accepting of infidelity in that role?

 

Would his wife have welcomed you with open arms and as a close friend/sister-wife?

 

Would she not have been emotionally devestated/angry/hurt by the situation?

 

That's something that's always seemed off to me. It's acceptable in a culture...except by those betrayed? Non-sequiter.

 

If it's acceptable by everyone, and no one is hurt/betrayed by it...that's a much different circumstance, but not one I've seen actually demonstrated anywhere.

 

From what I can gather, most of the time the wives or husbands who are being betrayed are not happy with it when they find out, that is in his home country. It just seems family and friends are quite happy to be a part of the whole thing, to accept the OW and make sure the partner being cheated on does not find out. So the cheating partners are very good at getting away with it. There will always be people who will lie to cover their backs.

 

I feel so ashamed and so duped in my case that they probably thought I knew he was married and also they joined in with his lies to me, once he got involved with another woman in his home country and got her pregnant. Times he would disappear when we were there together, his auntie knew where he was. She was also helping this woman as she went through her pregnancy when he was back here.

 

I also found out down the line that when the woman in his home country somehow found out about me, he had claimed I was old and rich and that he was with me for my money (this isn't true by the way me being old or rich!) she seemed happy to accept that, that he was sleeping with me etc as it would get money for her. I cannot understand how another woman would be happy to be with a man who is sleeping with another woman and apparently lying about being in love, for financial gain! But she didn't seem to mind at all. I guess she didn't feel betrayed in any way as he fed her this line. But then even to accept that....

 

My xMM's wife is from my country, so did not grow up in that culture. But I do know he has had countless women while married to her, including another kid with another woman before me here. I know the wife knows about that. I know she knew about me. I know she knows now about this other woman in his home country, and knows she has just had a kid. I cannot even to start to imagine how she feels about it all, knowing what this has all done to me. But she has stayed with him. They have 2 small kids.

Edited August 22, 2013 by fanine

[Susmay]

Every so often we hear of these cultures/countries where some forms of infidelity or polygamy/polyamory are usual. People come onto loveshack saying that it's OK in some cultures or countries. Which countries and cultures are we talking about exactly? Without stating the country or culture (or whatever/wherever) it's pretty meaningless to assert that it is acceptable somewhere else without specifying exactly where or in which culture.

 

Is anyone willing to be specific?

[fanine]

Every so often we hear of these cultures/countries where some forms of infidelity or polygamy/polyamory are usual. People come onto loveshack saying that it's OK in some cultures or countries. Which countries and cultures are we talking about exactly? Without stating the country or culture (or whatever/wherever) it's pretty meaningless to assert that it is acceptable somewhere else without specifying exactly where or in which culture.

 

Is anyone willing to be specific?

 

I guess I was being very wary, but the one I am referring to is the cuban culture. That is where my experience has come from.

[SolG]

I've just done some quick research. It's an interesting topic! One particular study I just read was particularly enlightening. It is a little dated, written in 2002 drawing on data back to 1969. However, it reviewed cultural attitudes and practices relating to infidelity using 186 cultural data sets - so very extensive. And I doubt it's findings would be off the mark today. I'll let this excerpt from the conclusion speak for itself:

 

'Our findings are consistent with both the sexual jealousy and the pair bond hypotheses, which hold that every marriage or love relationship is organized around a presumption of sexual propriety. This presumption compels men and women to be vigilant in their efforts to neutralize, if not regulate, their mates’extra marital inclinations and conduct. Our finding that sexual propriety is a fundamental component of the human pair bond has enormous implications... It suggests that spousal infidelity and sexual betrayal are troubling to everyone. It further suggests that “ownership”of a mate’s body is a presumption of both sexes.'

 

So it pretty much concludes that while prevalence and general attitudes are variable, nowhere is it actually seen as acceptable. Especially by the partners tnemselves. So while some may tout that there is a cultural bastion of infidelity out there... I suggest that touting is more about justifying their own actions than the result of research on the topic.

 

I'm actually quite interested in this topic and am going to see if I can find anything more contemporary. I can also provide a link to the paper quoted above if anyone is interested.

Edited August 23, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MissBee]

I've just done some quick research. It's an interesting topic! One particular study I just read was particularly enlightening. It is a little dated, written in 2002 drawing on data back to 1969. However, it reviewed cultural attitudes and practices relating to infidelity using 186 cultural data sets - so very extensive. And I doubt it's findings would be off the mark today. I'll let this excerpt from the conclusion speak for itself:

 

'Our findings are consistent with both the sexual jealousy and the pair bond hypotheses, which hold that every marriage or love relationship is organized around a presumption of sexual propriety. This presumption compels men and women to be vigilant in their efforts to neutralize, if not regulate, their mates’extra marital inclinations and conduct. Our finding that sexual propriety is a fundamental component of the human pair bond has enormous implications... It suggests that spousal infidelity and sexual betrayal are troubling to everyone. It further suggests that “ownership”of a mate’s body is a presumption of both sexes.'

 

So it pretty much concludes that while prevalence and general attitudes are variable, nowhere is it actually seen as acceptable. Especially by the partners tnemselves. So while some may tout that there is a cultural bastion of infidelity out there... I suggest that touting is more about justifying their own actions than the result of research on the topic.

 

I'm actually quite interested in this topic and am going to see if I can find anything more contemporary. I can also provide a link to the paper quoted above if anyone is interested.

 

Was just about to post that article!

 

But yes, cultures may have different views on monogamy, where having multiple spouses or relationships simultaneously is okay, but this is an open agreement and cultural custom. However, cheating/infidelity is about duplicity and this is not acceptable in any culture. When I have heard this cultural bastion proclamation, I roll my eyes, because maybe it's meant culture as in...that person and their friends and family but not a macro cultural attitude, as there isn't any research supporting the idea that there are cultures which find infidelity and cheating acceptable.

 

There is another article discussing cultures where having mistresses occurs and even in these cultures, which are often in Latin America, the Caribbean and Asia, it's still conducted secretly and discretely and the primary relationship/family is protected from it and it cannot intrude on this primary relationship....so it's still not accepted, but more so done in secret and people cope by turning a blind eye. The same article also went through the attitudes of Western cultures about infidelity, and most have a lot stronger attitudes against it than the cultures previously mentioned, with some places like the U.S. being strongly against it and others being less so, but what was found was that only 4% of the surveys cross-culturally found cultural attitudes which said nothing at all was wrong with infidelity.

 

[...]These institutions, of course, still serve to protect thefamily and the marital relationship by minimizing the intrusion of secondarypartnerships. Even in societies where extramarital relationships are casual and fleeting, a degree of secrecy and discretion usually surrounds the activities to minimize marital disruptions.

 

The less tolerant attitudes in Western nations may be tracedto Christian teachings on marriage and sexuality. In the twenty-four largely Western and industrial countries in the 1994 International Social Survey Program, most people stated that extramarital sex was "always wrong"(Widmer et al. 1998). Fully 80 percent of U.S. respondents condemned extramarital relations as being always wrong, a figure comparable toconservative Catholic populations like Ireland (80%), Northern Ireland (81%),and the Philippines (88%). The "always wrong" response found lessfavor in other countries: Australia (59%), Austria (67%), Bulgaria (51%),Canada (68%), Czech Republic (43%), Germany (data reported separately: EastGermany, 60%, and West Germany, 55%), Great Britain (67%), Hungary (62%),Israel (73%), Italy (67%), Japan (58%), Netherlands (63%), New Zealand (75%),Norway (70%), Poland (74%), Russia (36%), Slovenia (57%), Spain (76%), andSweden (68%). On average, however, only 4 percent of survey respondents believed that extramarital sex was "not at all wrong." Thus,moral judgments in Western countries continue to support sexual exclusivitybetween husbands and wives.

Infidelity - Cross-cultural Perspectives - Family, Sex, and Extramarital - JRank Articles

Edited August 23, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Nyla]

In Jamaica, men are encouraged to sleep around and get women pregnant. The more "babymadda" (babymothers) a dude has, the more of a man he is. It is accepted that a man will have his wife and then a woman on the side.

 

That is one of the reasons my husband is a WASP. I know WASPs cheat too, but my husband comes from a reserved Scottish/English clan. In his family people don't even say "I love you" or weep at funerals, much less openly carry on affairs.

[Eggplant]

I also found out down the line that when the woman in his home country somehow found out about me, he had claimed I was old and rich and that he was with me for my money (this isn't true by the way me being old or rich!) she seemed happy to accept that, that he was sleeping with me etc as it would get money for her. I cannot understand how another woman would be happy to be with a man who is sleeping with another woman and apparently lying about being in love, for financial gain! But she didn't seem to mind at all. I guess she didn't feel betrayed in any way as he fed her this line. But then even to accept that....

Did you personally interview her, or what was your source?

[cocorico]

[...]These institutions, of course, still serve to protect thefamily and the marital relationship by minimizing the intrusion of secondarypartnerships. Even in societies where extramarital relationships are casual and fleeting, a degree of secrecy and discretion usually surrounds the activities to minimize marital disruptions.

 

The less tolerant attitudes in Western nations may be tracedto Christian teachings on marriage and sexuality. In the twenty-four largely Western and industrial countries in the 1994 International Social Survey Program, most people stated that extramarital sex was "always wrong"(Widmer et al. 1998). Fully 80 percent of U.S. respondents condemned extramarital relations as being always wrong, a figure comparable toconservative Catholic populations like Ireland (80%), Northern Ireland (81%),and the Philippines (88%). The "always wrong" response found lessfavor in other countries: Australia (59%), Austria (67%), Bulgaria (51%),Canada (68%), Czech Republic (43%), Germany (data reported separately: EastGermany, 60%, and West Germany, 55%), Great Britain (67%), Hungary (62%),Israel (73%), Italy (67%), Japan (58%), Netherlands (63%), New Zealand (75%),Norway (70%), Poland (74%), Russia (36%), Slovenia (57%), Spain (76%), andSweden (68%). On average, however, only 4 percent of survey respondents believed that extramarital sex was "not at all wrong." Thus,moral judgments in Western countries continue to support sexual exclusivitybetween husbands and wives.

Infidelity - Cross-cultural Perspectives - Family, Sex, and Extramarital - JRank Articles

 

As any anthropologist knows, reporting by country tells you little about cultural norms, since few (if any, now) countries are monocultural, and even within a culture, personal views will vary according to the respondents' positionalities. For example, in a patriarchal culture, you are likely to get very different views from men and women, and depending on whether the interviewer is a man or a woman, their age / seniority relative to the interviewer, etc. only in-depth ethnographic studies can shed light - and again, given that cultures are not static, that "truth" is always provisional, and dependent on the slice that the positionalities of the researcher allowed them to access (thus always partial).

 

In my own country, there are many cultures. Some are more tolerant of infidelity than others, and so who you spoke to and which cultural tradition they grew up in would influence their answer, as would how "traditional" / modern their upbringing and lifestyle, and what family structure they grew up in (polygamous, rural, migrant labour, etc all increase the likelihood of parallel Rs, even parallel families, where the W raising the kids back in the rural homestead may know nothing about the city "wife" / GF and any kids from that R / those Rs) while certain jobs (eg taxi driver) often grant access to "sugar daddy / sugar baby" Rs with school girls using their services. Again, who you ask will determine how acceptable they report it being - the beneficiaries of such arrangements are likely to be in favour, those "betrayed" likely to be opposed, or resigned, or grudging in their acceptance.

[cocorico]

I just wondered if anyone else has been involved with a MM or MW who comes from a culture where having more than one partner is acceptable?

 

 

When I was much younger, I had a BF that I later discovered had a GF / fiancée back in his home village. He was always just a a passing fling for me, as I was very young and far from ready to settle, but when he sent his uncle around to ask me how to contact my father to negotiate dowry etc I was very spooked. The uncle wanted to hurry the M so that I could be the first W, and the GF / fiancée the second, to ensure my seniority since I had higher "status".

 

When I told my colleagues about the visit, they nodded sagely and told me a little more about how such things worked in their culture, which was very different from how I'd been brought up. They were all in favour of me marrying him, telling me how beautiful our babies would be, and could not understand my reluctance.

[fanine]

I've just done some quick research. It's an interesting topic! One particular study I just read was particularly enlightening. It is a little dated, written in 2002 drawing on data back to 1969. However, it reviewed cultural attitudes and practices relating to infidelity using 186 cultural data sets - so very extensive. And I doubt it's findings would be off the mark today. I'll let this excerpt from the conclusion speak for itself:

 

'Our findings are consistent with both the sexual jealousy and the pair bond hypotheses, which hold that every marriage or love relationship is organized around a presumption of sexual propriety. This presumption compels men and women to be vigilant in their efforts to neutralize, if not regulate, their mates’extra marital inclinations and conduct. Our finding that sexual propriety is a fundamental component of the human pair bond has enormous implications... It suggests that spousal infidelity and sexual betrayal are troubling to everyone. It further suggests that “ownership”of a mate’s body is a presumption of both sexes.'

 

So it pretty much concludes that while prevalence and general attitudes are variable, nowhere is it actually seen as acceptable. Especially by the partners tnemselves. So while some may tout that there is a cultural bastion of infidelity out there... I suggest that touting is more about justifying their own actions than the result of research on the topic.

 

I'm actually quite interested in this topic and am going to see if I can find anything more contemporary. I can also provide a link to the paper quoted above if anyone is interested.

 

I would be interested. Certainly my experience, not all but quite a few in the Cuban culture and especially men just thought monogamy was nothing special. They may little effort to hide their other woman, other than from their wives of course...

Edited August 23, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[fanine]

Did you personally interview her, or what was your source?

 

I started to have my suspicions something was not quite right. My xMM was at my house one day and he left his emails open on my computer. In the end I had to look. I'm not the type to normally snoop but well, I then saw all the emails between them there. Many emails, the whole story. His emails to her and hers to him. I read the whole thing there....

[sweetkiwi]

In Italy it's very acceptable to cheat. People barely hide it in my town. I've seen one man with three different girlfriends in the same day. And he isn't even good-looking. It's not only the men. The women usually have a young stud as well. I'd like to believe it's more common here but maybe it's just not hidden.

[Woggle]

Isn't America pretty much going that way. People barely blink an eye anymore.

[SolG]

I think there are cultures where infidelity is prevalent and perhaps indulged and tolerated. Like the examples above of Cuba, Italy and even the US above. But does that mean that infidelity is just invited and truly accepted - in essence seen as morally right and an open slather invitation ensues? Lack of direct and open condemnation surely doesn't equal direct and open approval?

 

The sex industry in Thailand was an indigenous invention based on a cultural predilection for male Thais to buy sex on the side. (Yes, that's right, the Western sex tourist just exploited something that already existed and made it larger and tackier.) But the fact that this practice is prevalent and indulged doesn't stop indignant and angry Thai SOs from doing damage that ends with their errant H/BF having to visit the penis repair specialist! Yes, they have these specialists in Thailand due to demand arising from this exact circumstance.

 

While infidelity may be everywhere in Thailand and acknowledged... This doesn't sound like 'acceptance' to me.

 

I'll stand by my previous post that I think it is almost universal that there is at least an expectation of sexual fidelity in legitimate pair bonding. And that failure to maintain this pretty much universally will cause relationship stress because it is not accepted. Regardless of how much happens or is tolerated.

 

And on a personal level, I'm an OW. Even though there is a lot of infidelity out there... I'm certainly not feeling the love and acceptance myself!

 

Then again... I don't know.... Maybe I'm just playing with semantics?

[Anna-Belle]

So here we have a country where according to the study MissBee quoted from 67% of the respondents condemn extramarital relations as being always wrong, yet below is how it looks in reality, to sweetkiwi at least:

 

In Italy it's very acceptable to cheat. People barely hide it in my town. I've seen one man with three different girlfriends in the same day. And he isn't even good-looking. It's not only the men. The women usually have a young stud as well. I'd like to believe it's more common here but maybe it's just not hidden.

 

Can't say I'm surprised. I think there is a big difference between condemning the phenomena as such, ie stating infidelity is always wrong, and interaction between people in everyday life. You know it's wrong, you think it's wrong, but people do it, and you accept that people do it (among them perhaps yourself?) and don't condemn them.

[MissBee]

As any anthropologist knows, reporting by country tells you little about cultural norms, since few (if any, now) countries are monocultural, and even within a culture, personal views will vary according to the respondents' positionalities. For example, in a patriarchal culture, you are likely to get very different views from men and women, and depending on whether the interviewer is a man or a woman, their age / seniority relative to the interviewer, etc. only in-depth ethnographic studies can shed light - and again, given that cultures are not static, that "truth" is always provisional, and dependent on the slice that the positionalities of the researcher allowed them to access (thus always partial).

 

In my own country, there are many cultures. Some are more tolerant of infidelity than others, and so who you spoke to and which cultural tradition they grew up in would influence their answer, as would how "traditional" / modern their upbringing and lifestyle, and what family structure they grew up in (polygamous, rural, migrant labour, etc all increase the likelihood of parallel Rs, even parallel families, where the W raising the kids back in the rural homestead may know nothing about the city "wife" / GF and any kids from that R / those Rs) while certain jobs (eg taxi driver) often grant access to "sugar daddy / sugar baby" Rs with school girls using their services. Again, who you ask will determine how acceptable they report it being - the beneficiaries of such arrangements are likely to be in favour, those "betrayed" likely to be opposed, or resigned, or grudging in their acceptance.

 

I'm pretty sure the anthropologists who wrote this article were fully aware of any limitations in their research and reported responsibly as far as those are concerned. I am almost sure they were not born last night neither was it the first day on the job for them.

 

Even when a culture has multiple cultures, there are still dominant cultural attitudes which can be gleaned and I am sure they took that into account. In fact, they did, I simply posted a snippet of the article and not the entire article which thoroughly explains how they went about conducting this research. In the same article they did say that:

 

Permissive sexual values reflect liberal religious and political ideologies. Men are more permissive than women. People with more schooling are more tolerant than people with less education. African Americans and people who live in big cities are also more tolerant of extramarital sex. Not surprisingly, people with permissive sexual values are more likely to have adulterous relationships. Only 10 percent of U.S. respondents who say extramarital sex is "always wrong" report having extramarital sex, as compare to 76 percent of respondents who say extramarital sex is "not at all wrong" (Smith 1994).

 

[MissBee]

I think there are cultures where infidelity is prevalent and perhaps indulged and tolerated. Like the examples above of Cuba, Italy and even the US above. But does that mean that infidelity is just invited and truly accepted - in essence seen as morally right and an open slather invitation ensues? Lack of direct and open condemnation surely doesn't equal direct and open approval?

 

The sex industry in Thailand was an indigenous invention based on a cultural predilection for male Thais to buy sex on the side. (Yes, that's right, the Western sex tourist just exploited something that already existed and made it larger and tackier.) But the fact that this practice is prevalent and indulged doesn't stop indignant and angry Thai SOs from doing damage that ends with their errant H/BF having to visit the penis repair specialist! Yes, they have these specialists in Thailand due to demand arising from this exact circumstance.

 

While infidelity may be everywhere in Thailand and acknowledged... This doesn't sound like 'acceptance' to me.

 

I'll stand by my previous post that I think it is almost universal that there is at least an expectation of sexual fidelity in legitimate pair bonding. And that failure to maintain this pretty much universally will cause relationship stress because it is not accepted. Regardless of how much happens or is tolerated.

 

And on a personal level, I'm an OW. Even though there is a lot of infidelity out there... I'm certainly not feeling the love and acceptance myself!

 

Then again... I don't know.... Maybe I'm just playing with semantics?

 

 

I think a discussion or definition of what "acceptable" means when fanine asked this question needs to happen.

 

As turning a blind eye and grudgingly "accepting" something and it being considered an acceptable thing aren't the same.

 

In the culture I'm from, many women accept that men cheat, it's not that they think cheating is acceptable mind you or they enjoy it and it doesn't hurt them and it's not that men don't hide it, even though some are more brazen than others, it's just that people accept it as an evil they work around...it is NOT however accepted in the sense that it is seen as other than cheating and is a neutral thing. It is still contentious.

[MissBee]

So here we have a country where according to the study MissBee quoted from 67% of the respondents condemn extramarital relations as being always wrong, yet below is how it looks in reality, to sweetkiwi at least:

 

 

 

Can't say I'm surprised. I think there is a big difference between condemning the phenomena as such, ie stating infidelity is always wrong, and interaction between people in everyday life. You know it's wrong, you think it's wrong, but people do it, and you accept that people do it (among them perhaps yourself?) and don't condemn them.

 

One person saying it's acceptable to cheat in Italy doesn't make it a general reality.

 

In any case, there will always be contradictions between what people believe to be wrong and what they engage in. This is not news. However, people's underlying beliefs about it is what is telling.

 

I think something being acceptable means there is no conflict between what you believe about it and what you do. Most APs, even on LS, do not think infidelity is a good thing or something they are not conflicted about, save for a small number, which is consistent with the research, less than 4% who say nothing at all is wrong with it, most others do think something is wrong with it, even though they may engage in it. What they do is do it then justify why in their case it's okay. Thinking something is wrong and still doing it is quite different from thinking nothing is wrong with it. Most people even in an affair aren't of the mind nothing is wrong, hence many of them hide it or say they wish it was different.

 

Even the happy OW, if she finds out tomorrow that MM has an other OW secretly, she will be upset and not think it is acceptable, some are even upset he is sleeping with his own wife, which supports the other article's idea of sexual propriety, sexual jealousy and pair-bonding being a cross-cultural presumption. Except for one person here, I have known no OW, even if her attitude is more permissive, to accept infidelity as okay, esp if it is done to her. If it was acceptable then it would be acceptable not only when you're the one benefiting but even when your partner goes that route and has someone else outside of your own relationship.

 

Likewise most criminals know killing someone is wrong, know raping someone is wrong, they still did it....it happens everyday, but people do not find it acceptable or think it's okay. It's accepted in so far as we realize humans are subject to these flaws, but it is not embraced and paraded as some laudable thing.

 

I think it should be a fruitful discussion if those who disagree with the research posited post their own counter research from experts who speak to the idea that there are cultures where cheating is not considered wrong.

Edited August 23, 2013 by MissBee

[fanine]

One person saying it's acceptable to cheat in Italy doesn't make it a general reality.

 

In any case, there will always be contradictions between what people believe to be wrong and what they engage in. This is not news. However, people's underlying beliefs about it is what is telling.

 

I think something being acceptable means there is no conflict between what you believe about it and what you do. Most APs, even on LS, do not think infidelity is a good thing or something they are not conflicted about, save for a small number, which is consistent with the research, less than 4% who say nothing at all is wrong with it, most others do think something is wrong with it, even though they may engage in it. What they do is do it then justify why in their case it's okay. Thinking something is wrong and still doing it is quite different from thinking nothing is wrong with it. Most people even in an affair aren't of the mind nothing is wrong, hence many of them hide it or say they wish it was different.

 

Even the happy OW, if she finds out tomorrow that MM has an other OW secretly, she will be upset and not think it is acceptable, some are even upset he is sleeping with his own wife, which supports the other article's idea of sexual propriety, sexual jealousy and pair-bonding being a cross-cultural presumption. Except for one person here, I have known no OW, even if her attitude is more permissive, to accept infidelity as okay, esp if it is done to her. If it was acceptable then it would be acceptable not only when you're the one benefiting but even when your partner goes that route and has someone else outside of your own relationship.

 

Likewise most criminals know killing someone is wrong, know raping someone is wrong, they still did it....it happens everyday, but people do not find it acceptable or think it's okay. It's accepted in so far as we realize humans are subject to these flaws, but it is not embraced and paraded as some laudable thing.

 

I think it should be a fruitful discussion if those who disagree with the research posited post their own counter research from experts who speak to the idea that there are cultures where cheating is not considered wrong.

 

I think the thing I have found the hardest to understand is how in my case, and others I eventually saw in Cuba, family and friends saw no problem at all in a married person having an OW or OM. The way they are quite happy to lie for the person cheating to help them maintain their double or triple life. I know my xMM's family covered for him when we were both out there. From what I could see this was not a problem for any of them. His friends back here too, they all knew he had a wife. But they welcomed me. I just felt even more stupid afterwards when I realised it was not just the xMM who was hood winking me, but so many other people as well.

[MissBee]

I think the thing I have found the hardest to understand is how in my case, and others I eventually saw in Cuba, family and friends saw no problem at all in a married person having an OW or OM. The way they are quite happy to lie for the person cheating to help them maintain their double or triple life. I know my xMM's family covered for him when we were both out there. From what I could see this was not a problem for any of them. His friends back here too, they all knew he had a wife. But they welcomed me. I just felt even more stupid afterwards when I realised it was not just the xMM who was hood winking me, but so many other people as well.

 

Sounds like my culture.

 

But see...it's still not acceptable, in that, people still have to lie and pretend and be secretive about it and get others to lie for them, because they know darn well it isn't acceptable. It's also a result of that kind of patriarchal culture, which mine is too, where fidelity is seen as optional for men, but of course, for women it isn't and women are every name in the book and bad women if they do as the men do.

 

My exAPs family didn't lie for him but his friends sure did...as they too probably had OW. However, again, they know, he knows it isn't acceptable or else there would ne no lies about it or keeping people in the dark. However the sociological studies on fidelity in the Caribbean explain a lot of how this comes into being, and a lot of it has to do with what some call an economization of sentiment.

[fanine]

Sounds like my culture.

 

But see...it's still not acceptable, in that, people still have to lie and pretend and be secretive about it and get others to lie for them, because they know darn well it isn't acceptable. It's also a result of that kind of patriarchal culture, which mine is too, where fidelity is seen as optional for men, but of course, for women it isn't and women are every name in the book and bad women if they do as the men do.

 

My exAPs family didn't lie for him but his friends sure did...as they too probably had OW. However, again, they know, he knows it isn't acceptable or else there would ne no lies about it or keeping people in the dark. However the sociological studies on fidelity in the Caribbean explain a lot of how this comes into being, and a lot of it has to do with what some call an economization of sentiment.

 

Yep true, I can see too his family also lied because they thought they were protecting me in some strange way. They knew if I knew I would be upset and would likely leave the MM. It was so odd as anyway I was in fact the OW, I thought he was separated. They knew I was the OW and then they were having to hide from me the fact there was another OW! Thing is though this OW there knew full well about me and the wife, but it did not seem to bother her at all.

[MissBee]

Yep true, I can see too his family also lied because they thought they were protecting me in some strange way. They knew if I knew I would be upset and would likely leave the MM. It was so odd as anyway I was in fact the OW, I thought he was separated. They knew I was the OW and then they were having to hide from me the fact there was another OW! Thing is though this OW there knew full well about me and the wife, but it did not seem to bother her at all.

 

It's like these attitudes evolve out of a need to survive...I remember one guy friend of mine tried to say "Women should accept men will have more than one woman, it's not a big deal, either accept it or be alone for life" . It all comes out of the patriarchal machismo in these cultures where infidelity is not this equal opportunity, everyone cheats and it is A-ok, it's only the man's domain and he can do as he pleases and because of this, many women, in my culture as well, aspire to be the wife. The wife is the primary relationship partner who has the Queen's role in their minds, and all OW are secondary and the man will never leave to be with the OW full time, unless his wife leaves him, so women don't accept this willingly, but some feel they can't stop it so might as well put themselves in the most advantageous position by being his wife...or if they choose to be an OW they accept it and try to have him provide for them so they get some benefit from the deal.

 

It's actually very sad when you think about it....as it's most times not a genuine acceptance, but your culture favors men and their ability to do as they please so much, that women feel like they can't really do much about it so just "accept it" and are taught men aren't supposed to be faithful and never will be so don't worry about it. If you ask these wives and OW most of them will probably tell you they want to he his ONLY woman, that's what they genuinely desire, as the sexual propriety and pair bonding hypotheses suggest, but they feel it is unrealistic given the cultural conditions, so tolerate infidelity.

 

True acceptance and toleration aren't the same.

Edited August 23, 2013 by MissBee