What the Church says about homosexuality

[HokeyReligions]

In another thread I made a comment about many churches still preaching that homosexuality is a sin and that I do not agree with others’ statements that [paraphrasing]‘if you don’t accept homosexuality then your church is wrong and you are a bigot’

 

I do not agree with that at all. I’m not catholic, but just for the heck of it I went to the Vatican website to see what they say about homosexuality. The Catholic Church labels homosexuality as an act of grave depravity. Hmm…. So do most Christian-based churches in America.

 

The Catholic Church says that homosexual acts can not be approved under any circumstance. Hmm…. So do most Christian-based churches in America.

 

The Catholic Church says that we must not discriminate against homosexuals. We must accept them for what they are, flawed human beings – just like the rest of us. We must treat them with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. It’s not up to us to mete out punishments or rewards based on their sexuality, including the punishment or reward of Hell or Heaven after death---that’s God’s job. Hmmm….. So do most Christian-based churches in America!

 

Just because someone believes that homosexuality is a sin, does not make them a bigot!! It does not mean that they act in a discriminatory manner at all! Some do, most don’t. I have never been to a church that instructed its parishioners to go forth and discriminate against homosexuals!

 

Here’s a link to the Vatican site – it’s pretty good. I’m going to different churches with my husband now – he’s searching for a new church – and I’m asking the clergy for their opinions and interpretations of homosexuality and what God/Jesus say to them and to heterosexuals about dealing with the people and the act. It’s been very interesting. I encourage everyone to talk to their ministers. I tell them that I’m involved in an on-line forum and one of the discussions is about homosexuality and religion and I’m doing my own research – they have all been very willing to help.

 

 

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357

 

…..Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity…..

 

…..Under no circumstances can they be approved…..

 

…..The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition…..

[loveregardless]

but saying that anything is a "sin" is saying that it is "wrong" and thats being discriminatory. I'm not even going to say anything else than that though, because I am far too limited and close minded to grasp such difficult concepts, such as how a faith could make repeated statements of "wrong" and "right" and impose upon the world an image of a judgmental "God" and be seen as a positive establishment. I'll just leave this discussion to the other OLDER more open minded people to discuss. I wouldn't want to be attacked for challenging anyones beliefs or asking them to think for themselves...not two days in a row anyway.

[HokeyReligions]

I'm agnostic -- don't believe in God. My very basic definition of any organized religion is a set of rules governing what they believe are right and wrong.

 

It's who defines what as what that I find interesting. Not challenging anyone's beliefs--just looking at how different churches preach about this. I can't speak for all Christian based churches - especially on details, but the Baptist, Protestant, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, and Lutheran churches that I have attended recently are all in basic agreement with the Catholic Church.

 

I was just wondering what other peoples' churches are teaching.

[loveregardless]

agnostics don't NOT believe in God Hokey, just as you do not NOT believe in God, they just think that its not possible to KNOW...athiests believe there is no God most definetely. You aren't athiest.

 

Our beliefs are actually pretty similar...I agree that religion is an attempt at defining morality and "God"...both of these are very personal issues and both are very limited when viewed through the constraints of any religion...but ESPECIALLY Christianity. I will never be able to fathom how "people" can put their own characteristics and thoughts onto a "being" of Divinity. Talk about limited, as if the creator of all existence judges ANYTHING it creates...or would even have the capacity to do so. That is a human FLAW.

[Stone]

My church is non demoniational and it doesn't really "teach anything persay" We all get togeather on Sundays and worship, sing, and have a place connect with "god" but there isn't alot of morals shoved down our throats.

 

We actually have 2 gay couples at our church, several unwed couples including myself, and people of all sorts of backgrounds and they are all accepted there. I love it

 

I don't think any person has the right to make a religious judgement on another person, I believe that only the man upstairs can

[loveregardless]

but why would "He" (again, as if Divinity would be of any species, and of all, male)"judge" us at all? JUDGMENT IS A HUMAN FLAW! But nice church nonetheless.... I must say the non denominational thing is at least a step up!

[HokeyReligions]

I defined agnosticism a while back on another thread. I don't believe in God--any god. Too many facts and theories discredit the diety-theory for me. I am willing to accept that I may be wrong, but it's highly doubtful that anyone will convince me of the existence of God. An athiest is not willing to accept that there are any gods. Basically the same thing that you said.

 

I just find it very intesting to learn about the beliefs of others -- as their churches preach them, and its interesting to have someone call a Christian a bigot or ignorant because they themselves were indoctrinated to believe that anyone who does not agree with them is an ignorant bigot! It's a manipulation that I would guess most Christian-based churches have heard before and are now countering from their own pulpits.

 

It is possible to have very different beliefs and yet neither person be an ignorant bigot!

[ThumbingMyWay]

Gods Grace is all forgiving.....

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Stone

My church is non demoniational and it doesn't really "teach anything persay" We all get togeather on Sundays and worship, sing, and have a place connect with "god" but there isn't alot of morals shoved down our throats.

 

We actually have 2 gay couples at our church, several unwed couples including myself, and people of all sorts of backgrounds and they are all accepted there. I love it

 

I don't think any person has the right to make a religious judgement on another person, I believe that only the man upstairs can

 

Is your church national or have any affiliations? If I were to look for a branch in my area, what name would I look for?

[Stone]

Vineyards community church there everywhere

[loveregardless]

I went for my cousins baptismal a few months back. And this was right before the release of that Mel Gibson film..the Passion of the Christ, and the preacher told the congregation, including me sitting there, that Christians had been getting a lot of flack lately for being judgmental, but that it was their JOB AND RIGHT to be judgmental because they were conveying God's judgment. I don't know how that can be misconstrued as anything but bigotry. And it is so disgusting that anyone would use "God" as an EXCUSE to judge others. Their RIGHT to judge others...again, and I'm the close minded one!

[Moose]

My Church believes that homosexuality is a sin. For you LR, it's wrong. For everyone else who's not going to be subjective about every little word I type, it's against the intentions of God for man to lay with man, and woman to lay with woman.

 

Is it calling homosexuality wrong by saying that it's against God's intentions?

 

Just because someone is gay doesn't neccessarily mean we Christians are to place them in a catagory of lower stature. Folks who are gay are still God's children and loved by Him. I'm not holier, or in a better position than a gay person by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just as guilty of sin as the next guy.

 

This is what most people struggle with. LR is constantly going on that religion is something us men created to dictated what we should label as right or wrong, that it's out of fear for spending eternity in damnation that we should stick to these guidlines.

 

I'm trying to tell you......it's not that way. Or at least not the way I see my faith. To me, there is no sin greater than the next. God doesn't love me any more or less than He loves the Pope or Timothy McVey. Just because my sin is speeding, and Timothy's was mass murder, I'm not looked upon as the better saint, or cleaner soul. Sin is sin is sin. So that takes out of the equation that one must stay on the right side of the guidelines in order to find grace from God. I'm saying there isn't a single person on Earth, "Good", enough to get to heaven, nor can they say enough prayers, be a good enough person, or give enough money to cause the gates to swing open.

 

Now you may say that fear of not getting to heaven, or spending eternity in hell is what drove me to accept the only avenue in. NOT, I chose to accept my fate as a sinner, and to accept the fact that my sins have been paid for so that I will someday have a relationship with my maker, not because I'm afraid to burn in hell.

 

Homosexuality is a sin. So is going 71 in a 70 MPH zone. Neither one is worse than the other. It's sin.

[tiki]

My church (interdenomination) believes it's a sin. We just were reminded of it a few weeks ago, actually.

[Pocky]

LR is constantly going on that religion is something us men created to dictated what we should label as right or wrong

 

Well it was created to define what is right or wrong. I believe Romans Chapter 7 makes comparison between sin and the law and how if it weren't for the law Peter would not know what sin is. In this sense, the implementation of Christianity defines what is right or wrong.

[Stone]

I was taught that sodomy period is a sin, it doesn't matter if a man takes it in the rear or a woman. it's a sin period.... I think we have all been guilty of this at one point.

[tiki]

We are all sinful. Sucks, but it's the truth.

[savethedrama4allama]

Originally posted by Moose

My Church believes that homosexuality is a sin. For you LR, it's wrong. For everyone else who's not going to be subjective about every little word I type, it's against the intentions of God for man to lay with man, and woman to lay with woman.

 

Is it calling homosexuality wrong by saying that it's against God's intentions?

 

Just because someone is gay doesn't neccessarily mean we Christians are to place them in a catagory of lower stature. Folks who are gay are still God's children and loved by Him. I'm not holier, or in a better position than a gay person by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just as guilty of sin as the next guy.

 

This is what most people struggle with. LR is constantly going on that religion is something us men created to dictated what we should label as right or wrong, that it's out of fear for spending eternity in damnation that we should stick to these guidlines.

 

I'm trying to tell you......it's not that way. Or at least not the way I see my faith. To me, there is no sin greater than the next. God doesn't love me any more or less than He loves the Pope or Timothy McVey. Just because my sin is speeding, and Timothy's was mass murder, I'm not looked upon as the better saint, or cleaner soul. Sin is sin is sin. So that takes out of the equation that one must stay on the right side of the guidelines in order to find grace from God. I'm saying there isn't a single person on Earth, "Good", enough to get to heaven, nor can they say enough prayers, be a good enough person, or give enough money to cause the gates to swing open.

 

Now you may say that fear of not getting to heaven, or spending eternity in hell is what drove me to accept the only avenue in. NOT, I chose to accept my fate as a sinner, and to accept the fact that my sins have been paid for so that I will someday have a relationship with my maker, not because I'm afraid to burn in hell.

 

Homosexuality is a sin. So is going 71 in a 70 MPH zone. Neither one is worse than the other. It's sin.

 

 

I always wondered why homosexuality is a sin from a religious standpoint. Why it is againts God's intentions. Is it because no children can be created by homosexual sex? Does that make my childless marriage a sin, because we lay down together but created no children by choice? Does that make masterbation a sin? Birth control methods such as timing?

[loveregardless]

there is no such thing as "sin"....it is just another creation of humans....to govern their behavior. To CONTROL them.

I'm saying there isn't a single person on Earth, "Good", enough to get to heaven

There is no such thing as "good" and "evil"....another creation of humans...and again, NEVER IN THE BIBLE DOES IT REFER TO HEAVEN AS AN ACTUAL PLACE, IT MEANT THE SKY; THE HEAVENS.

 

Against God's intentions? So now "God" has "intentions"? What would those be exactly?

 

I chose to accept my fate as a sinner, and to accept the fact that my sins have been paid for so that I will someday have a relationship with my maker, not because I'm afraid to burn in hell.

Of course your not afraid to burn in hell, your in the club, your home free. I chose to accept responsibilty for my own life and for my own actions and not to expect one human man who lived two thousand years ago to have paid the price for all of humanities flaws.

 

It's my close mindedness acting up again. I just can't see how the creator of all existence would be this pathetic, needy, vengeful, conceited, jealous, angry, volitale, or judgmental, I'm too limited. I give God way more friggin' credit than that! Someone, please, explain to me why GOD IS JUDGMENTAL?

 

LR is constantly going on that religion is something us men created to dictated what we should label as right or wrong

I'm the only one saying this. That's funny...I thought that Dyer, Hokey, Moi, Pocky, Otter and others have also made this statement...my mistake, apparently it was just me.

[loveregardless]

WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST? WHAT ABOUT NEANDRATHALS? WHERE DID THEY "GO"?

[tiki]

[Moose]

I always wondered why homosexuality is a sin from a religious standpoint. Why it is againts God's intentions. Is it because no children can be created by homosexual sex? Does that make my childless marriage a sin, because we lay down together but created no children by choice? Does that make masterbation a sin? Birth control methods such as timing?

 

It's against God's intentions because yes, two men, or two women cannot procreate. Also, God made Woman from Man to illustrate the relation of, "Belonging", to each other. No, your marriage isn't a sin because you choose not to have children, if God wanted you to have a child, trust me, no birth control could or would stand in His way. Masterbation, birth control being a sin? These are good questions. Men have spilled their seed on the ground in biblical times to prevent birth, but I never heard or read anything about masterbation unless you want to catagorize that under something else. That doesn't mean they are or aren't sin. I don't know for sure. I do know that I do both just like most humans do.

 

there is no such thing as "sin"....it is just another creation of humans.

 

Again LR, this is only your opinion. You still can't just say, "I believe there is no such thing as sin", rather than out right professing that there is no such thing as sin. It's only your opinion, ( In my opinion, your as wrong as a heartache in the middle of great sex! ).

 

There is no such thing as "good" and "evil"....another creation of humans...

 

Just another example of you proffessing whatever you believe as truth, which doesn't make you right. Personally, I think you're just fooling yourself so that you'll have an excuse to avoid being wrong.

 

Against God's intentions? So now "God" has "intentions"? What would those be exactly

 

And why you care what His intentions are, afterall, you refuse the free gift in joining our, "Club".

 

I'm the only one saying this. That's funny...I thought that Dyer, Hokey, Moi, Pocky, Otter and others have also made this statement...my mistake, apparently it was just me.

 

Excuse me, didn't mean to sound like I was pointing you out of a line up......

[Matilda]

I'm trying to tell you......it's not that way. Or at least not the way I see my faith. To me, there is no sin greater than the next. God doesn't love me any more or less than He loves the Pope or Timothy McVey. Just because my sin is speeding, and Timothy's was mass murder, I'm not looked upon as the better saint, or cleaner soul. Sin is sin is sin. So that takes out of the equation that one must stay on the right side of the guidelines in order to find grace from God. I'm saying there isn't a single person on Earth, "Good", enough to get to heaven, nor can they say enough prayers, be a good enough person, or give enough money to cause the gates to swing open.

 

Now you may say that fear of not getting to heaven, or spending eternity in hell is what drove me to accept the only avenue in. NOT, I chose to accept my fate as a sinner, and to accept the fact that my sins have been paid for so that I will someday have a relationship with my maker, not because I'm afraid to burn in hell.

 

So, are you saying that Timothy McVeigh is up in heaven too, because Jesus paid for our sins? If there is no sin greater than the next, then why did God gives the 10 commandments? Why don't we all do whatever the heck we want?

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time Moose, I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

[loveregardless]

if you are saying confused face about my question, seriously consider all of the other "holes" in the theory as well...there is so so so much more information out there. There are so many other theories and philophies and teachers who have something just as valuable if not more valuable to teach us than Christianity alone ever could. All I'm asking is that you think about it. Think about these things...think about how much just does not make sense in the bible...there is knowledge to be found. There are at least some theories that can attempt to shoot for answers. But don't just believe something because you are comfortable with it, believe it because it really makes sense! Christianity does not make sense. All I want is for everyone to desire the truth as much as I do. I don't want anyone living under the cloak of a dogmatic facade...I want people to recapture their spirituality from the confines of their restrictive religions...that's freedom...thats open mindedness, that's free thought... and that is all I am ever trying to say.

[Moose]

Originally posted by loveregardless

WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST? WHAT ABOUT NEANDRATHALS? WHERE DID THEY "GO"?

 

First off, I don't believe that the Earth is Hundreds of Thousands of Years old. Secondly, those before Christ had the Ten Commandments to follow. Thirdly, I don't believe in neandrathals, lastly, some went to heaven, some went to hell.

[Pocky]

Thirdly, I don't believe in neandrathals

 

 

What about Hobbit Woman?