Why are some men successful with women and some men not?

[Jon Tenzo]

A lot of it comes down to hormones I believe. My testosterone levels have increased in the past few years which have made me more aggressive and less likely to be rebuffed by rejection (whether talking about dating or business).

 

Proven in nature that the alpha males usually have higher testosterone circulating in the blood, so I highly suggest you get your levels checked. A lot of estrogenic producing compounds are in our municipal drinking water and general environment which could be disrupting your testosterone cycle.

 

There isn't a consensus but it is also believed that women can smell men with higher testosterone levels when you are in close proximity via pheromones.

[Els]

There really just isn't one factor, IMO. It's kinda like asking 'why do some people succeed in their careers and others not?" Waaaaaayyyy too many possibilities...

 

The most common reason I've noticed (for both men and women) is having very little overlap between the people who tend to like them, and the people they tend to like (either of those subsets are too small, or both, or too far apart).

[Mrlonelyone]

Define success with women. As others have said it's different for other people.

 

In highschool I had sexual relations with a female teacher. No "girlfriend" but I had a teacher in the supply closet. At the time I felt more like a failure because I couldn't exactly take my woman to home coming she was a chaperone. (That was just the one I actually penetrated). That is something many guys here fantasize about...yet it made me feel like a looser.

 

In college I had six years off and on with an ex I wrote of here as S. She quite possibly had my baby as her child looks just like a kid she and I would have. That I am apparently such a vile person that my money isn't even good enough to bring a child support action for wounds me deeply. I could not even be worthy of paying child support. To many here that would make me the bad boy while some supposed beta quite possibly raising my child. Yeah right.

 

Then there is my latest romantic excursion. The one I wrote of here as M. We were, as my sig line indicates just hanging out. So much so that her father said I remind him of "Me and my wife before we got married". For 8 months we were in a passionate push pull relationship. Knowing my relationship history I can't say it's 100% over. It was like this ( Othello part 2 - YouTube ) A relationship filled with such passion it could well have been written by Shakespeare. I was early 30's dating early 20's college woman. Another thing many a bored married man fantasizes about. Yet now that it has ended at what was probably always the break as I have graduated I can't help but feel like a looser. Why could I not convert that into a longer term relationship? We laid bare to eachother things that we don't reveal to everyone and have faithfully still kept eachothers confidences.

 

Looking at it that way objectively I am not a looser when there exist men who really haven't even had that much luck. Yet because I can't find that one special someone who will just love and accept me as I am (I really am crying as I write this) I feel like a total looser and a freak.

 

The lesson is that feeling like a winner comes form within. OP no woman can make you feel like a winner. At best they can just let you cry in their lap every once in a while.

[fortyninethousand322]

A lot of it comes down to hormones I believe. My testosterone levels have increased in the past few years which have made me more aggressive and less likely to be rebuffed by rejection (whether talking about dating or business).

 

Proven in nature that the alpha males usually have higher testosterone circulating in the blood, so I highly suggest you get your levels checked. A lot of estrogenic producing compounds are in our municipal drinking water and general environment which could be disrupting your testosterone cycle.

 

There isn't a consensus but it is also believed that women can smell men with higher testosterone levels when you are in close proximity via pheromones.

 

I have high levels of testosterone. It hasn't really helped me though...

[Mrlonelyone]

Well tell me whens the last time you grabbed a girls ass or pushed her against a wall and kissed her? Come on man stop playing it so safe.

 

 

Provided that you have built up to it with the proper emotional, and physical rapport that actually does work more often than not. You can't just do it to a woman you've never met.

[carhill]

All theories welcome. I'm interested in ideas as to why some men seem to be able to get dates/relationships/sex, whatever it is they're looking for while some men don't.

 

The vast majority of both sexes have generally satisfying romantic lives, the major problem is finding the right person, rather than just any person. So what divides the successful from the unsuccessful?

 

I'll chime in with my own thoughts in a bit...

I see it similar to achieving success in any other area of life:

 

Preparation

 

Ambition

 

Persistence

 

 

When I observe males of my generation who are successful with women, whether that be having many dates/lovers or retaining a spouse through many decades of life challenge and change, they generally are charming and sincerely want women in their lives for whatever reasons they want them. The more experience they get, the more polished their interactions and more successful they are.

 

Amongst my personal friends, as an example, I'm an anomaly in that I remained single during/after my divorce, where nearly all the other men I've known, when confronted with such a life change, immediately sought to replace that spouse with another partner, most prior to their divorces being finalized. They wanted a woman in their life and polished up the skills to achieve that goal. If social success is measured by such interactions, they are successful, and success breeds more success. This is critically important in my demographic, as competition for women is high, so much so that I can count the single women in my wider social circle, irrespective of age, on one hand with a few fingers left. Successful men here recognize that and bring their A game and never allow it to get rusty.

 

Another potential reason is socialization. IMO, early memories, role-modeling and skills taught have substantial impact on progressing early incremental successes/failures into a pattern of success over time. The earlier one starts, like when dad guides and encourages his pre-adolescent son with regard to innocent associations with 'girlfriends', the more likely a pattern of success can be established and the interpersonal skills gained to fluidly interact with, enjoy the company of, and get what one wants from relationships with the female gender.

[mario_C]

Well tell me whens the last time you grabbed a girls ass or pushed her against a wall and kissed her? Come on man stop playing it so safe.

 

Uh oh, someone's been reading PUA. NOOOOO.....

[johan]

I can say that at least a couple of things helped me:

1) having a decent social life with guy friends

2) not having a laser focus on every hot girl in the room

 

In college I was friends with a really nice guy who also happened to be extremely outgoing and vain and social. He was constantly making friends with some very attractive women, but never getting any action with them. It was good to just be me around all those people. And after a while I found a real comfort level in those situations. The women were silly and flawed and fun, most of the time. As bad as he was. I didn't think anyone was too good for me after a while. I was very relaxed.

 

I think I was probably the wingman in that case, but mostly we were just having fun. College was a lot of fun thanks to them. And I learned a lot about myself.

 

I'd say your complaint about not getting dates is like addressing the symptoms and not the cause. The cause is too little exposure to people who you can learn from. By talking to hundreds of people in social situations, you just relax. You learn how completely idiotic you can be and still get by. So the little shell you have yourself trapped in is way safer than necessary. And limiting.

 

And you get to know that attractive women are just as insecure and neurotic as anyone, and you don't have to take them so seriously. The truth is they really aren't even as attractive as you think.

 

My social life mostly just happened to me. I can't give you advice on how to get a good one of those going. But it really makes all the difference.

[fortyninethousand322]

I certainly think socialization plays a big role. I think for most people, they start dating sometime between 14 and 18, with the remaining "late bloomers" getting caught up in their first couple years of college. Early on you have a curfew and other restraints so you're kind of learning with the training wheels on, gradually getting more freedom and responsibility corresponding with your ability to handle it. By the time you get to you middle 20s you pretty much have a hang of it you're just working out some of the kinks.

 

Sometimes, with some people, something happens that messes that up. So you don't really learn very much and you have no idea how to go about attracting potential mates. Sort of like someone who never learned how to swim being thrown into the deep end. It's a very tough spot to be in.

[johan]

Well, I understand. The years since college have had their ups and downs for me. But take care of your mental and physical health as your first priority. Make sure you're proud of the things you do in life. And maybe it's worth remembering that there is only a very thin barrier between who you think you are and who you really can be. It just takes a good circumstance or two and you suddenly realize you're on the other side where the grass was supposedly greener, doing quite well. Just have faith in yourself.

[johan]

Oh and remember not to talk politics with any girl you're interested in. Save your crazy ideas for LS.

 

 

 

[fortyninethousand322]

I can say that at least a couple of things helped me:

1) having a decent social life with guy friends

2) not having a laser focus on every hot girl in the room

 

Yeah I can see that.

 

My social life now is a little slowed down, but I had quite a few friends in college. Never really a dull moment. In fact I probably spent too much time hanging out, tossing a football or shooting hoops with my friends than I should have. Thankfully my grades weren't too bad as a result.

 

One of my friends in particular was really good with women. He's still pretty good except now he's married and has a kid so it's not a big deal. I tried to learn from him, hoping it would rub off on me. Never took. He's a cool guy though so I liked hanging out anyway. Anyway long story short, I never really was able to use my social connections to help me romantically. They did introduce me to a couple of cute girls but nothing ever happened, I was too shy and too awkward for anything to happen I guess.

 

And as far as the laser focus, I don't know. I'd like to think I don't have a laser focus on hot women, but then again, I don't know if my definition of hot is the same as everyone else's.

 

In college I was friends with a really nice guy who also happened to be extremely outgoing and vain and social. He was constantly making friends with some very attractive women, but never getting any action with them. It was good to just be me around all those people. And after a while I found a real comfort level in those situations. The women were silly and flawed and fun, most of the time. As bad as he was. I didn't think anyone was too good for me after a while. I was very relaxed.

 

I think I was probably the wingman in that case, but mostly we were just having fun. College was a lot of fun thanks to them. And I learned a lot about myself.

 

I'd say your complaint about not getting dates is like addressing the symptoms and not the cause. The cause is too little exposure to people who you can learn from. By talking to hundreds of people in social situations, you just relax. You learn how completely idiotic you can be and still get by. So the little shell you have yourself trapped in is way safer than necessary. And limiting.

 

And you get to know that attractive women are just as insecure and neurotic as anyone, and you don't have to take them so seriously. The truth is they really aren't even as attractive as you think.

 

My social life mostly just happened to me. I can't give you advice on how to get a good one of those going. But it really makes all the difference.

 

 

I mean I have a sister who gets hit on by men, and despite this, she's still insecure and neurotic. So I know that many attractive women (and I suppose unattractive women too) are insecure. It's just, they're not insecure with regards to me. I'm not someone you need to be nervous around in that sense. I'm like a table lamp or a wall clock or something.

 

I definitely need to rebuild my social life, but I'm skeptical that it will matter.

[thefooloftheyear]

The less you care about it and obsess about it, the more successful you will be..

 

I know this sounds counter -intuitive and perhaps its not what some might agrree with, but it does seem like the ones trying hard, seem to spin their wheels..

 

part of it may have to do with the fact that of you are trying-then you give off an air of "neediness" which just about all women are going to find unattractive. The guys that dont seem so much "on the make" seem to fare better..Some of it has to do with an air of self confidence and perhaps they are spending more time and energy focusing on themselves and their careers-hence they may be more successful and financially independent-which women generally find attractive...

 

Eh, but what the hell do I know:laugh:

 

TFY

[jma500]

Confidence and persistence.

 

Women can smell low self esteem and they bolt. If you act like you own the world.......most of the time you can own the world.

 

If you act like you own the world that is arrogance not confidence.

[fortyninethousand322]

Oh and remember not to talk politics with any girl you're interested in. Save your crazy ideas for LS.

 

 

 

 

Yeah don't worry. Politics is pretty boring to talk about actually. I prefer history or culture, or nifty ideas as conversation topics.

[jma500]

Wrong, there is a difference

 

No there isnt. You just don't know the difference between confidence and arrogance.

[fortyninethousand322]

The less you care about it and obsess about it, the more successful you will be..

 

I know this sounds counter -intuitive and perhaps its not what some might agrree with, but it does seem like the ones trying hard, seem to spin their wheels..

 

part of it may have to do with the fact that of you are trying-then you give off an air of "neediness" which just about all women are going to find unattractive. The guys that dont seem so much "on the make" seem to fare better..Some of it has to do with an air of self confidence and perhaps they are spending more time and energy focusing on themselves and their careers-hence they may be more successful and financially independent-which women generally find attractive...

 

Eh, but what the hell do I know:laugh:

 

TFY

 

I think you're right. People who have a patience about them and a good sense of confidence do fairly well.

 

Honestly, speaking personally here and not just about unsuccessful men in general, I have absolutely no confidence. Even if a woman hypothetically came up to me and said she was madly in love with me, I'd probably not believe her. I cannot for the life of me think of any reason why a woman would be interested in me. They haven't so far, why would they start now? There are many better men to choose from.

 

On top of that, I'm awkward too, because I have no experience.

[johan]

Like I said before, as bad as you feel and as far away as it seems you are from where you want to be, it's actually quite a small thing to get there. It can happen easily and in no time. You just have to have faith in yourself. And push your own boundaries a little bit here and there.

[carhill]

The less you care about it and obsess about it, the more successful you will be..

 

I experimented with this for about ten years a few decades ago and found myself to fail spectacularly. YMMV on this one.

 

I know this sounds counter -intuitive and perhaps its not what some might agrree with, but it does seem like the ones trying hard, seem to spin their wheels..

 

Without the relevant skill set for their demographic, indeed one can definitely 'spin their wheels', respecting one's sincere 'trying'. To relate it to work, it's the difference between working 'smart' and working 'hard'.

 

part of it may have to do with the fact that of you are trying-then you give off an air of "neediness" which just about all women are going to find unattractive.

 

My experience with this has been mixed. I'm often surprised by how openly 'needy' men find success with women. As a friend once shared, many people, perhaps most, like to feel needed. A man struggling with his feelings, whether about relationships, a loss in life, or his place in the world, if otherwise attractive, can be and often is attractive to women when he shares that peek into his 'inner self'. I also hear this from wives about their husbands. However, this varies and my own failures in my marriage in this regard underscore how each woman reacts differently to such emotional openness.

 

Overall, my impression is that successful men, over time, found the most widely accepted combination of desire, charm and personal openness which works with the majority of women in their demographic. They're 'socially smart'. Perhaps for some that is genetic and natural; for others it's learned. Some of us never learn and don't have the innate style. I would say my own experience trends to the middle, meaning learned, not natural, leaning to the latter. It is what it is.

[tbf]

The less you care about it and obsess about it, the more successful you will be..

No, you have this backwards. It's not about not caring. It's about not fearing loss. Fearfulness and desperation aren't attractive qualities.

[ThaWholigan]

No there isnt. You just don't know the difference between confidence and arrogance.

TO be honest, from some of the things I've seen you say on the matter of confidence today, I don't think you really know the difference between the two. It would help if you could outline your particular definition of either of them so as to understand why you keep bringing up arrogance anytime someone mentions anything close to a love of themselves or self-belief.

[carhill]

TBF brings up a good point, one which perhaps I should clarify as to what 'cared less' meant during my experiment. In my case, it aligned with what is discussed on LS as becoming less 'outcome dependent', hence I made a conscious choice to enjoy each interaction discretely without fearing the loss of my investment, time and the company of the lady. Reflecting back, perhaps it was an incidental timing issue as, at the end of that decade, experience and success improved markedly. Maybe that time was 'school', the learning process alluded to prior.

 

This line of thought brings up a related reason why some men are more successful with women: Being more 'in the moment' without fear of loss or dependency on outcome allows for more discrete interactions and potential partners to be approached/assessed/dismissed, so the man gains a fluidity to 'how it works' with women, simply due to larger sample size. More experience, and being open to the lessons it teaches, can lead to more 'success'.

[tbf]

This line of thought brings up a related reason why some men are more successful with women: Being more 'in the moment' without fear of loss or dependency on outcome allows for more discrete interactions and potential partners to be approached/assessed/dismissed, so the man gains a fluidity to 'how it works' with women, simply due to larger sample size. More experience, and being open to the lessons it teaches, can lead to more 'success'.

Boom tish! You've got it.

[fortyninethousand322]

Interesting theories here.

 

I like to look at the guys around this forum who are notorious for their lack of success. Some ended up finding success (SD81 and ThaWholigan for example) while almost without exception the rest are still languishing here years into their time on LS. It makes for an interesting case study I think.

 

To be honest, I think a big factor is simply having someone reciprocate your feelings. It makes you think you're not a complete failure and that it is possible that someone worth wanting actually does want you.

[thefooloftheyear]

When I say cared less, I am primarily relating my own experiences..

 

Look...I freely admit that I can have a shytty personality at times..I see myself as aloof, locked in thought and analytical during my daily life. I am not afraid of anything and will usually tell someone exactly what I am thinking/feeling-even if its not what they want to hear. I am successful in my career, though.

 

In terms of physical aspects, while I am told I am attractive, I dont necesssariy see it so much...I do have a very good physique, but I dont walk around shirtless and 9 months out of the year I am covered up. And I am short...like 5'7" on a good day...

 

In my entire life I have been approached by women fairly regularly.. Some good looking-some..eh...Some successful, some basket cases. The point is. I dont ever really hit on women...I see guys at the gym aggressively hitting on women and I just could never see myself in that role..Its even borderline creepy, the way I look at it...Im no stud., believe me.

 

Even in HS, I was heavily involved in varsity sports and didnt really think about girls at that time. I just really didnt care about it at all...But they were always around..My HS buddies all joke around that I had all the hottest girls in the school..

 

Til I joined this site, I didnt even know what PUA is..I still dont know what it stands for. For me to walk up to a woman and say something like "Hey baby, You are a hottie." or some other crap...well...Id have a better chance striking out Derek Jeter than doing that..I dont get it..

 

My insurance guy is someone who was always on the outside looking in. this poor bastard pulled out all the stops and tried everything...Hes pretty well off, owns the company. has a nice house and car. Doesnt seem like a bad looking guy -just kind of a girlyman, but many women like that...Anyway, he was so dejected he finally went the mail order bride route and got himself a Chinese woman..Seems happy..(shrug).

 

He certainly tried a lot harder than i ever did/do..What the difference is, I just dont know.?.All i have learned is that this is one area where effort and time generally do not wind up necessarily working in the end.

 

And if you have to come up with a plan or "scheme" to attract women, you are already stepping on your dick...Women are far too smart for that shyt.

 

TFY

Edited August 25, 2013 by thefooloftheyear