Why are some men successful with women and some men not?

[ThaWholigan]

Interesting theories here.

 

I like to look at the guys around this forum who are notorious for their lack of success. Some ended up finding success (SD81 and ThaWholigan for example) while almost without exception the rest are still languishing here years into their time on LS. It makes for an interesting case study I think.

 

To be honest, I think a big factor is simply having someone reciprocate your feelings. It makes you think you're not a complete failure and that it is possible that someone worth wanting actually does want you.

In order to do that, you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable sometimes. Being guarded for fear of the outcome won't really get you anywhere. Like I said in the other thread about callouses, you have to keep playing that guitar even though the blisters hurt. Soon, they become callouses, and it doesn't hurt. When you weight train, you create micro-tears in your muscles, breaking them down and resting to allow them to repair and get stronger. At this rate, you flex your social muscles too. Think of your social skills as muscles, and dating/talking to girls is leg day .

[skydiveaddict]

So what divides the successful from the unsuccessful?

 

attitude...........

[tbf]

Interesting theories here.

 

I like to look at the guys around this forum who are notorious for their lack of success. Some ended up finding success (SD81 and ThaWholigan for example) while almost without exception the rest are still languishing here years into their time on LS. It makes for an interesting case study I think.

 

To be honest, I think a big factor is simply having someone reciprocate your feelings. It makes you think you're not a complete failure and that it is possible that someone worth wanting actually does want you.

SD accomplished his goal by listening to members like TW who told him to go for it. TW accomplished his goals by going for it. What's the commonality?

[fortyninethousand322]

SD accomplished his goal by listening to members like TW who told him to go for it. TW accomplished his goals by going for it. What's the commonality?

 

That's only one part of the story. Both situations involved women who were interested in them. Otherwise it wouldn't have worked. There has to be mutual attraction. That's the key.

 

You just can't go for it without there being some interest in return and expect success...

[tbf]

That's only one part of the story. Both situations involved women who were interested in them. Otherwise it wouldn't have worked. There has to be mutual attraction. That's the key.

 

You just can't go for it without there being some interest in return and expect success...

Sure, mutual attraction needs to happen but one quick question. Do you feel you're a good judge of women's subtle signals?

[fortyninethousand322]

Some one specially told SD to hit on that girl even though he thought she had a bf but than wow she didn't.

 

You say you have lots of testosterone. Prove you have big balls and act like it.

 

Trust me, I thought I had low T and that was what was causing my low sex drive. So I had it checked out by a doctor. So I'm not just saying it, it's factual.

[fortyninethousand322]

Sure, mutual attraction needs to happen but one quick question. Do you feel you're a good judge of women's subtle signals?

 

I don't know. I notice people's behavior, yes. But, I'm not certain that conclusions can always be draw from behavior. I mean I've had women give the classic "subtle signals" and then I go to ask them out or make my feelings known, and they weren't interested. The most notable example being the girl I "dated" in college (notable because it went on for a long time and really I think destroyed me psychologically).

 

You get enough negative responses and you start to doubt yourself and begin to feel hopeless.

[Els]

Quick question, 49k:

 

How many women do you even converse with in a week?

[tbf]

I don't know. I notice people's behavior, yes. But, I'm not certain that conclusions can always be draw from behavior. I mean I've had women give the classic "subtle signals" and then I go to ask them out or make my feelings known, and they weren't interested. The most notable example being the girl I "dated" in college (notable because it went on for a long time and really I think destroyed me psychologically).

 

You get enough negative responses and you start to doubt yourself and begin to feel hopeless.

So you observe behaviour but have difficulty understanding what those behaviours mean.

 

Do me a favour. Try the body talk and reading faces tests. I'm curious to know how you test.

 

Welcome to Test yourself?

[fortyninethousand322]

Quick question, 49k:

 

How many women do you even converse with in a week?

 

What counts? Like a conversation with a cashier or coworker? Or like a friendly/social conversation? Online or in person?

 

I'll just use this past week as an example. At my job orientation I talked to another woman who was also in orientation. Didn't talk too much with her because she didn't speak too much English (nor French or Arabic). Talked with the HR person, mostly work related. At my other job, I talked a bit with my friend's sister (not one on one, but part of a group). And I had lunch with a very good friend of mine for about 90 minutes. So that's what, 4 women this week.

 

On average it's probably 1-2.

[Els]

Hm, I meant socially, really, not for business reasons. So, 3 of the above count.

 

1-2 really is fairly low IMO.

 

Ever considered trying to socialize a wee bit more?

[fortyninethousand322]

So you observe behaviour but have difficulty understanding what those behaviours mean.

 

Do me a favour. Try the body talk and reading faces tests. I'm curious to know how you test.

 

Welcome to Test yourself?

 

Ok.

 

While I'm waiting for Quicktime to download, I want to clarify something. The girl from college wasn't just giving me "subtle" signals. I mean she was grinning like the Cheshire cat, giggling like a school girl at my jokes (not all of which were funny), crossing her legs towards me, touching my hair, inviting me to do things, etc. I thought I was pretty bad at recognizing signs and signals before that, but afterwards, I realized I didn't know what I was doing.

[tbf]

Ok.

 

While I'm waiting for Quicktime to download, I want to clarify something. The girl from college wasn't just giving me "subtle" signals. I mean she was grinning like the Cheshire cat, giggling like a school girl at my jokes (not all of which were funny), crossing her legs towards me, touching my hair, inviting me to do things, etc. I thought I was pretty bad at recognizing signs and signals before that, but afterwards, I realized I didn't know what I was doing.

Without being able to observe her facial expressions and behaviours in their entirety, it's difficult to say whether she was interested or just being friendly.

 

Looking forward to your results.

[fortyninethousand322]

Hm, I meant socially, really, not for business reasons. So, 3 of the above count.

 

1-2 really is fairly low IMO.

 

Ever considered trying to socialize a wee bit more?

 

I mean if I'm in a situation where there's a woman involved I do talk to them. I just don't go out of my way to socialize with women, especially if I'm attracted to them.

[fortyninethousand322]

Without being able to observe her facial expressions and behaviours in their entirety, it's difficult to say whether she was interested or just being friendly.

 

Looking forward to your results.

 

That's true. The point I was getting at though was that if ever I was sure that a girl was into me it was her. I could forward you some of the emails she sent me as evidence (which I obviously kept to look back on with nostalgia).

 

And I got all the faces right. On the body language I only missed question 3, I thought the woman looked uncomfortable but apparently she was comfortable.

[fortyninethousand322]

This one girl once gave me all the signals. Talking to me. Smiling at me. Asked me what I was doing over the weekend. Asked me if I was seeing any one. So I asked her out. Than she was like "No." Than she also went around telling people I asked her out. People were like not cool man. Till I told them the story.

 

I never asked any one out again and from that day forward have lived my life as a monk when it comes to women. JK the story is true but it didn't phase me.

 

Well, see, I did ask this girl out and she said yes. And we continued to go out. All the while continuing to give me signs. But always pulling away whenever I tried to get closer.

 

Moreover, every time I'm interested in a girl she never ends up being interested in return. Literally never. At that point you kind of get to feeling that something has gone drastically wrong.

[tbf]

That's true. The point I was getting at though was that if ever I was sure that a girl was into me it was her. I could forward you some of the emails she sent me as evidence (which I obviously kept to look back on with nostalgia).

 

And I got all the faces right. On the body language I only missed question 3, I thought the woman looked uncomfortable but apparently she was comfortable.

This is good news, in that you're capable of reading neurotypical body language and facial expressions.

 

The other possibility is that there's also a difference between flirting with intent and flirting to be friendly. Both genders use it and a lot of people get confused by it.

[jma500]

Really?

 

I was unaware that you knew me personally? Nothing arrogant about me and if somebody thinks that about me its their problem not mine.

 

I meant you in the general sense not the specific.

[Mrlonelyone]

Well, see, I did ask this girl out and she said yes. And we continued to go out. All the while continuing to give me signs. But always pulling away whenever I tried to get closer.

 

Moreover, every time I'm interested in a girl she never ends up being interested in return. Literally never. At that point you kind of get to feeling that something has gone drastically wrong.

 

You date them, then as soon as you verbalize or make concrete that you like them they run.

 

That could be a function of who you choose to be interested in. What I mean by that is, it is possible that on some level you fear emotional intimacy (and vulnerability) so you pick women who have the same fear. It's a vicious cycle, you fear intimacy so you pick/attract women with the same fear. The result is you never get too close.

[jma500]

TO be honest, from some of the things I've seen you say on the matter of confidence today, I don't think you really know the difference between the two. It would help if you could outline your particular definition of either of them so as to understand why you keep bringing up arrogance anytime someone mentions anything close to a love of themselves or self-belief.

 

I know the difference. I grew up with an extremely arrogant father. Believing yourself to be things you clearly are not is arrogance. Arrogance is not an attractive trait. It is abhorrant and disgusting. I will always be who I am and will never have false, inflated beliefs about myself. I am happy with who I am. If that is not good enough for women then its their loss.

Edited August 25, 2013 by jma500

[thefooloftheyear]

That's true. The point I was getting at though was that if ever I was sure that a girl was into me it was her. I could forward you some of the emails she sent me as evidence (which I obviously kept to look back on with nostalgia).

 

And I got all the faces right. On the body language I only missed question 3, I thought the woman looked uncomfortable but apparently she was comfortable.

 

Maybe you should just become a cop..I am so amazed at how women just fall all over themselves and act like little 14 year olds when they talk about cops. Its the easiest way to get laid there is-outside of dollar night at the whorehouse. Doesnt matter if the guy is hideous or a raging douchebag, have badge-get women...

 

All kidding aside(maybe)..

 

One thing that could be possible here is that maybe you need to just loosen up. If you are anything in life like you are in your postings, you seem to be a tight ass..I dont mean that in a derogatory sense so dont misread what I am saying. I like your posts and your opinions. You seem intelligent, pragmatic and a thinking type of guy. All good. These are things I value in myself as well..But I am not afraid to loosen up and joke around a bit..I dont always take myself so seriously...In my line of work I have to be very precise and sharp..Its a relief to get away from that and be an idiot at times(not in the literal sense-if you get my drift)...Most women really like a guy that is sharp witted, but not a total stuffed shirt..Some humor goes a long way..

 

Just a thought..

 

Also, I would lay off the self deprecation. We all do it at times, but when you are constantly repeating it over and over, it becomes a mantra. And perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

 

TFY

[fortyninethousand322]

This is good news, in that you're capable of reading neurotypical body language and facial expressions.

 

The other possibility is that there's also a difference between flirting with intent and flirting to be friendly. Both genders use it and a lot of people get confused by it.

 

Yeah that's true. I really have no idea how to get unconfused by it...

[fortyninethousand322]

You date them, then as soon as you verbalize or make concrete that you like them they run.

 

That could be a function of who you choose to be interested in. What I mean by that is, it is possible that on some level you fear emotional intimacy (and vulnerability) so you pick women who have the same fear. It's a vicious cycle, you fear intimacy so you pick/attract women with the same fear. The result is you never get too close.

 

That's interesting. I really wish I knew.

[tbf]

Yeah that's true. I really have no idea how to get unconfused by it...

As a man, you can ask her out or push her boundaries lightly to see if she accepts or recoils.

 

As a woman, I assume men are being friendly unless they indicate interest in other ways.

[fortyninethousand322]

As a man, you can ask her out or push her boundaries lightly to see if she accepts or recoils.

 

As a woman, I assume men are being friendly unless they indicate interest in other ways.

 

My fear of that happening is probably what holds me back from pushing boundaries.

 

That, and my generally negative attitude leads me to always assume friendliness rather than something more.

 

I know I have major issues...