Men On Strike?

[Robert Z]

Something struck me while reading another thread. When I was a kid, there was a parable often told about a farmer and his wife. They were arguing about who had the hardest job. So they decided to switch roles. She went out and worked the fields while he cooked and cleaned and managed the kids. In the end the woman comes home from the fields for dinner but there was no comment as to her state other than she was tired. However the man had been overwhelmed by his house duties. The entire day had been one disaster after another.

 

The moral of the story - women have it so much harder than men do. And while a woman can do a man's job, the man is not capable of doing the woman's job. Sound familiar? We see the same theme repeated everywhere today.

 

Who told me this story? Women I had as teachers, of course. Yep, back then the brainwashing started around the 1st grade.

[serial muse]

(probably have surpassed you academically)

 

 

Oh, I think not. Shouldn't assume things, it's a stupid pissing game and you're on the wrong side of it. You may call me Dr., young sir.

 

But if thinking that helps stroke your little ego, by all means, do what you can.

 

However, what you wrote still makes no sense, hyperbole or not, and no amount of rah-rahs from other dudes who are on your bandwagon

 

Males: Logical, well-thought out arguments.

 

Females: Constant shaming without making any points at all.

 

will ever make it "logical".

 

(He probably didn't actually read it; else I can't fathom that this is what passes for logic in his world, or yours.) I also enjoy the irony that anecdotes and hyperbole are considered logic, while the above two posts are not considered shaming, apparently. Is this bizarro-world or what?

 

Edited September 5, 2013 by serial muse

[carhill]

Actually, the URL redirects users to this site:

 

When I viewed it, the link redirected to a spam site for 'click rewards'. Today it directs to YouTube. Perhaps there was a glitch which was resolved or a spammer caught. Now, if spammers went on strike, or died, no one would complain

[M30USA]

When I viewed it, the link redirected to a spam site for 'click rewards'. Today it directs to YouTube. Perhaps there was a glitch which was resolved or a spammer caught. Now, if spammers went on strike, or died, no one would complain

 

What the hell? The link name should NOT have said that. I changed it. Oh well, my trick was revealed.

[dichotomy]

Men did get it -there was a constant barrage of media and talking heads - we became more caring and involved fathers and husbands - less focused on our jobs and more on family and home. Be more accommodating, compromising, and caring, less dolts. It worked. Many of the men I know in my age group (tail end of baby boomers beginning gen x) are great dads and husbands. Caring, compromising, involved in the family …and so much more

 

At the same time - women were told they were oppressed and denied opportunities to be like men - they could and should have powerful careers, express their sexuality in any way they wished...and to stop compromising, demand more, be driven, take and stop giving - - and in control. They were also told deing a mom and wife (or worse a stay at home mom) is not valued or powerful.

 

I think what we continue to face in marriage are power struggles. Power struggles occur in any partnership - when there are not clearly defined roles, responsibilities, and authority – and respect for each role. Also that marriage involves a hell of lot of compromise, giving when you don’t feel like it – and submitting to one another.

 

With this constant power stuggle - many men are saying "why?" and not making the commitment.

 

I do think it is interesting that now that Gays are getting the right to Marry - some gay partners are suprised to see their partner not marry them now that they have the right to (what? ! you can marry me now and you wont?) still others in the gay communinty are refeinfing marriage with terms like "mongamish". Facintating times.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

At the same time - women were told they were oppressed and denied opportunities to be like men - they could and should have powerful careers, express their sexuality in any way they wished...and to stop compromising, demand more, be driven, take and stop giving - - and in control. They were also told deing a mom and wife (or worse a stay at home mom) is not valued or powerful.

I wouldn't go that far. Sure, a lot of the seminal feminists from the 60s and 70s seemed to look down upon motherhood with considerable vigor. The narrative that actually emerged was the (possibly more damaging) one that women need to have it all in order to be deemed worthy by society: the career, the power, while being an involved parent. I don't really think society has been saying that the role of being a mother isn't valued. Fatherhood has, for the past few decades, been treated as far more disposable.

[M30USA]

I wouldn't go that far. Sure, a lot of the seminal feminists from the 60s and 70s seemed to look down upon motherhood with considerable vigor. The narrative that actually emerged was the (possibly more damaging) one that women need to have it all in order to be deemed worthy by society: the career, the power, while being an involved parent. I don't really think society has been saying that the role of being a mother isn't valued. Fatherhood has, for the past few decades, been treated as far more disposable.

 

Until fatherhood is valued and not criminalized, we will continue to have escalating rates of Borderline Personality Disorder and other psycho- and socio-pathologies. Men are the ones who can see the world objectively. Remove them and you will get children who become disconnected from reality and emotionally immature. I believe the facts support my claim here.

[dichotomy]

I wouldn't go that far. Sure, a lot of the seminal feminists from the 60s and 70s seemed to look down upon motherhood with considerable vigor. The narrative that actually emerged was the (possibly more damaging) one that women need to have it all in order to be deemed worthy by society: the career, the power, while being an involved parent. I don't really think society has been saying that the role of being a mother isn't valued. Fatherhood has, for the past few decades, been treated as far more disposable.

 

I am not sure about this. I think stay at home moms have been looked down on by professional women - and yes some men. It is still often not looked at as a real "job" which of course it is.

 

I am not sure what you mean by fatherhood being disposable, but as I said the culture has changed, and men are very much expected to be involved in their kids lives more than ever before.

[xxoo]

I think what we continue to face in marriage are power struggles. Power struggles occur in any partnership - when there are not clearly defined roles, responsibilities, and authority – and respect for each role. Also that marriage involves a hell of lot of compromise, giving when you don’t feel like it – and submitting to one another.

 

Egalitarian relationships can exist without power struggle.

 

The problem is that many have never experienced it personally, and can not imagine the reality. But many of us live it quite happily and peacefully.

 

And it isn't about parsing everything out equally. It is about a spirit of each wanting to make the other's life easier, and each putting the family first, instead of the individual. That's a marriage worth having.

[todreaminblue]

.....i have begged my girls to get married before they have kids..said to them i dont want the cycle to repeat and you girls end up alone to raise your own children,being both dad and mum..... abandoned when things get rough, its bloody hard.....and yet people look down on single mums liek its all fun adn games and wild sex parties we pop babies out for the fun of it and dispose of the dads in some cruel heartless manner and deny them access to their children.....hardly ever ....very few mums do this if they care about their kids.......

 

its a struggle...marriage is important.......would be less single mums out there if the men would marry the women they help become mothers...takes two to tango............i believe that.....i like your post dichomoty it was succinct and well said...........deb

[Robert Z]

...takes two to tango

 

That is true for both getting pregnant and coexisting. Perhaps more men would be getting married if they saw any benefit in the deal for them. What you are doing is invoking the guilt argument to suggest that men should get married. While they should help to support the baby, that doesn't mean they should get married to a woman they don't love.

 

Using pregnancy and guilt as a method of control is precisely the sort of thing that has men fleeing from marriage.

 

And how many of those single moms would give up their baby if the man wanted to raise him or her? And what about single dads? Do you think it's easy for them?

Edited September 7, 2013 by Robert Z

[M30USA]

Tom, have you read the book?

[M30USA]

Haha yes. I own the book.

 

I read it when it first came out though and I read A LOT (I've probably read about 10 books since then plus all of the info from online sites). So I don't remember exactly what she said or if I read it somewhere else.

 

I do remember thinking that her book was spot-on though.

 

I specifically remember her college section because that was something that I experienced. I was always outspoken in college. So I was referred to as "sexist" quite often (though a lot of girls like this because I was known as the bad boy lol). I also knew of many false rape allegations while in college (though was never at the receiving end of one).

 

I didn't wise up until after college, unfortunately.

[SuperGeek]

Where overseas do you see the men going to acquire women ? South America or Asia?

 

I think more men of my generation are becoming like this. In fact, I knew a decent amount of men my age (20s) that are going overseas to meet women (and sometimes stay there). These are normal, social, sometimes good-looking men with good jobs. They are just wisening up now and realizing how badly this system is stacked against us. I think you will see more of this kind of thing in the future.

[Pompeii]

Where overseas do you see the men going to acquire women ? South America or Asia?

 

When I hear of guys going to other countries to get wives, it sort of makes me laugh. A lot of guys go to Asian countries to get women because they feel South America has now been caught by the waves of feminism. I'd hate to have an Asian wife because once she becomes Americanized, she'd divorce me and I'd lose so hard. But each to their own.

 

Either way, marriage is just a terrible idea especially if you're a man.

 

Egalitarian relationships can exist without power struggle.

 

The problem is that many have never experienced it personally, and can not imagine the reality. But many of us live it quite happily and peacefully.

 

And it isn't about parsing everything out equally. It is about a spirit of each wanting to make the other's life easier, and each putting the family first, instead of the individual. That's a marriage worth having.

 

My parents have this. It's probably the easiest example of one I've seen. I've already defeated the possibility of this because most girls in my generation have their head too far up their ass. The ones that don't either are already scooped up by the top guys or they're just not into me.

 

Whatever, I care more about money and mastery anyway.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Pompeii

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

Oh, I think not. Shouldn't assume things, it's a stupid pissing game and you're on the wrong side of it. You may call me Dr., young sir.

 

But if thinking that helps stroke your little ego, by all means, do what you can.

 

However, what you wrote still makes no sense, hyperbole or not, and no amount of rah-rahs from other dudes who are on your bandwagon

 

 

 

will ever make it "logical".

 

(He probably didn't actually read it; else I can't fathom that this is what passes for logic in his world, or yours.) I also enjoy the irony that anecdotes and hyperbole are considered logic, while the above two posts are not considered shaming, apparently. Is this bizarro-world or what?

 

 

You don't seem very intelligent to me. You seem very condescending (usually a sign of someone that wants to be intelligent, but really isn't).

 

Also, just because you're a doctor doesn't make you intelligent (it's more of a status symbol than anything else....and there's a good chance that you are not what you say anyway).

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I've seen many of your posts.

[HoneyBadgerDontCare]

When I hear of guys going to other countries to get wives, it sort of makes me laugh. A lot of guys go to Asian countries to get women because they feel South America has now been caught by the waves of feminism. I'd hate to have an Asian wife because once she becomes Americanized, she'd divorce me and I'd lose so hard. But each to their own.

 

Either way, marriage is just a terrible idea especially if you're a man.

 

Some guys go overseas and stay there. I've traveled a lot and I've seen this often.

 

I would say, in that case, it would be better to go to Asia. There, you have beautiful beaches and mostly white collar crime. In South America, there is a lot more physical crime (murders, robberies, etc.). So, in that regard, I'd pick Asia in a heartbeat.

[SuperGeek]

I know a guy that moved from the US to Thailand. He married some girl he met there and is living a great life (according to what he says).

 

Some guys go overseas and stay there. I've traveled a lot and I've seen this often.

 

I would say, in that case, it would be better to go to Asia. There, you have beautiful beaches and mostly white collar crime. In South America, there is a lot more physical crime (murders, robberies, etc.). So, in that regard, I'd pick Asia in a heartbeat.