Caught in a Lie

[Kaiten]

I seriously need some input from random strangers who may or may not be perusing the interwebs for helpless people like me to troll.

 

No seriously. I need help.

 

I know I am rather light-hearted about it...but this is a serious issue.

 

There has been something going on for a while now in my church. I was always skeptical...but i could never put my finger on it.

 

Here is the gist. I caught a pastor in a lie. I don't know what to do about this now. I am young. (far too young to have an opinion in church) and my only advantage right now is that she doesnt know that I know she lied.

 

And so it begins...

 

At my church, I was the most skilled person in dance. Im not arrogant. I sucked at dancing. I was just the person who worked on dancing the hardest. I worked on it because I knew it could be used in great outreaches. Our church had a dance ministry. Naturally, I just thought I would try to be a part of it because why not?

 

So as soon as I joined the leader left and the whole thing shut down.

 

"Not to worry" i said. "We are leaders, ourselves."

 

Eventually, girl #1, who was a member of dance ministry was chosen by the Pastor's wife, Wanda (not her real name).

 

Over the course of an entire year, Pastor Wanda insisted that girl #1 wanted to do it because "It was her passion", despite obvious evidence to the contrary. I would ask many times if I could lead it since girl #1 barely came to church. I was always met with fierce opposition from Pastor Wanda.

 

Of course I began to wonder why I had to ask Pastor Wanda to lead the team. Why could I never see the actual head pastor about it? Pastor Wanda had no inclination towards dance whatsoever...but i digress.

 

While girl #1 was in charge we would have meetings to discuss what she wanted to do with the dance ministry. I was like "lets do whatever you want to do!". In those meetings girl #1 would get very excited. And then about a week later she wouldn't even answer the phone. I would see her again, and she would be upset with me and would avoid contact with me. This angered me. What did I do?

 

As time would pass girl #1 would get over her grudges against me, but only after I would show the most extreme forms of humility (is it prideful that I said that?). Oddly enough, the cycle would repeat...She would get mad at me out of nowhere. As in i wouldn't even see or talk to her for a few days, and then she would not be able to stand me. She wouldnt return my calls or texts. Completely ignoring me. Why? I never knew. It never made sense.

 

I went to Pastor Wanda and discussed this issue, trying to get to the bottom of it. I didnt care if I was wrong. I just wanted to fix the problem so that we could share our passion with the world. Though I was humble, I wanted to be clear. In my opinion girl#1's emotions weren't stable enough to lead it and it was as if she wasn't even there.

 

I predicted that girl #1 would eventually just quit...and guess what? Girl #1 actually became the leader of a large ministry that performed for a huge conference in our city later that year.

 

Just kidding. She quit.

 

When girl #1 quit...the dance ministry stopped in its tracks yet again. Pastor Wanda persisted in her defense of it. She didnt want me to lead it. Which caused me to think that she would rather have it not exist than to have me lead it. I did the mature Christian thing...I just kept my mouth shut and let it go.

 

So 1 and a half years later...enter Girl #2.

 

Girl #2 was a girl who used to go to our church but then she left and came back. As soon as she came back she was given leadership of the dance ministry. As in THE DAY she came back. She had been gone for years.

 

Here is the good news: I am friends with Girl #2. Let me be clear with you readers as i was with Pastor Wanda...

 

I did not want to be the leader of the team. I just wanted someone there who I knew was passionate about it enough to produce results. The youth begged for me to be the leader. Because no one else worked on dancing like I did. No one else was passionate like I was.

 

When girl #2 entered the fray, I was ecstatic! She was made the leader and now my friend would come and get stuff done.

 

Only she didn't get stuff done.

 

When i saw that my friend girl #2 also wasnt getting things done, I asked if I could help. NOT TAKE OVER - I ASKED IF I COULD HELP.

 

Pastor Wanda declined. Her reason?

 

"Girl#2 doesnt want to work with people your age."

 

Hm... That is odd because Girl #2's friend (who is the same age as we are) is her main helper.

 

I called a Church leader Bryan (not his real name) to make sure I was hearing things correctly.

 

Bryan said that the reason that I would never be picked for the dance ministry is that I was "too skilled" and that "a person as skilled as I was would only take glory away from God"

 

This crushed me. The whole reason I had started dance was because I wanted to do some kind of outreach. I didnt plan on becoming "as good" as I was at dance. And now (apparently) I had accidentally become too skilled to be used by God.

 

Anyway, Girl #2 wasn't doing anything in the position of leadership. So what else would a passionate soul do? I went to Pastor Wanda again.

 

I asked Pastor Wanda...begged her to allow me to do it. She insisted that Girl #2 was more passionate than I ever was. Wanda then told me that I would be better off doing something else, like children's church. I politely declined and asked her again. She would adamantly refuse and then she would do the same thing...try to redirect me in these oh-so-elaborate ways to get me to try something else. I knew where my heart was. And so does she.

 

After that meeting i was kind of upset. Not only was i "overqualified" for God, but my friend, Girl #2 didnt want my help.

 

So it came time for Girl #2 to choreograph. She came straight to me. I was infuriated! Why would you say you dont want my help and then get in a bind and come to me? At this point I wanted to see her lose. I told Girl #2 that i wasnt going to help her at all. Not in any way, shape or form. I felt betrayed by her, honestly. Whenever I would decline Girl #2's pleas for help she would look at me with these big beautiful eyes and then I would kinda feel sorry for her. Nonetheless, I still wouldnt help. Not until she admitted she needed help.

 

Eventually...girl #2 quit.

 

Now i was curious. Girl #2 is my baby. I wanted to know why she quit so suddenly. I am all about conflict resolution. I wanted to be all "Hey lets not be like that...Lets work together."

 

Girl #2 replies "I asked for your help"

 

So of course I say "Why did you tell Pastor Wanda that you didn't want my help then?"

 

Girl #2: "WHAT?! I never said anything like that!!"

 

Now im in total WTF mode. I explained to her exactly what Pastor Wanda said.

 

Girl #2: "I fought tooth and nail with Pastor Wanda so that she would allow you to help me!...I was so burned out...to tell the truth I never wanted to even be the leader."

 

Me: "thats funny because Pastor Wanda was telling me how passionate you were about it."

 

Girl #2: "No i was backed into a corner by Pastor Wanda. I felt volunforced. That is why I left the church. I never wanted to do it in the first place but Pastor Wanda wouldnt let me be! Pastor Wanda said that I had to do it because you didn't want to."

 

Me: "SHE SAID I DIDN'T WANT TO?!?!?!"

 

Girl #2: "Yes...she said it over and over again whenever she was asking me."

 

I asked Girl #2 over and over again what was said, and how it was said, and who said it.

 

It was Pastor Wanda...

 

There is no way possible that Pastor Wanda thought that. Furthermore, Girl #2 told me she never said anything that could have been mistaken for "I dont want to work with people his age."

 

We were manipulated and set against one another. This is crazy. Girl #2 is very hurt by this.

 

I went back and talked to Girl #1. The same story.

 

How many people is this happening to at our church? I don't know...I don't know what to do...What could we ever say? None of us have any rights in church. We are too young (in our 20s), none of us have kids for the church to love and adore, or are in our career fields. We feel disposable.

 

It was one thing for them to do this to me, but to do this to Girl #1 and to Girl #2, and who knows who else...I am incredibly upset! I don't want to see this happen to any more people! the Girls are afraid to speak up about it. Speaking up about it will surely cause a lot of controversey and trouble and drama...

 

Please I am begging you on behalf of all young adults everywhere...please help me figure out what to do...

[Els]

I think that if you really want spiritual guidance, your best bet would be to post on a Christian board.

 

That being said, after 20 years in a church and hearing all of the dirty secrets that are usually only known to elders/committee - I can assure you that religious groups are absolutely not immune to the lying, backpedaling, backstabbing, and cliques that occur in other groups. Churches are no exceptions. It wasn't just my church, either.

 

I have seen a Pastor of a respected church conduct an affair with the wife of one of his congregation members. I have seen Pastors filch committee money and lie on their expenditure declarations. I have seen Pastors blatantly take sides with certain members of the congregation.

 

I'm sorry to disillusion you, but I don't think this is at all abnormal. Pastors are human too, and the process for selection/training is fallible. Perhaps leave your church in search of greener pastures?

Edited August 25, 2013 by Elswyth

[Kaiten]

Gosh Elswyth...I really believe you. I was trained to believe that Pastors are so high and mighty...no more.

[todreaminblue]

i am not a young adult i am prehistoric man....smilin.... but I will try and help

 

 

we all sin differently and i dont know the reason why the pastors wife lied or would want to make it hard for the both of you

 

 

i dont know why they would consider you too skillled...skills are gifts from god.....and if you are humble then those skills are not for personal gain anyway, all glory to god.....

 

I have a solution but you may not like it.....

 

go with your friend and ask her in a calm and rational manner, to explain why you both cant work together.......two things will happen ...one she is going to probably be a bit embarrassed so have some sympathy and do not bring up the fact she lied...you wont need to...she will feel it in her heart...sit down all together and work out some kind of resolution to the problem at hand...if she is not wanting to do that......

 

 

 

 

honestly...you cant change her mind for her......thank her for her time to talk to you both and let it go........i know that it causes you distress....... pray and ask where you might be able to help someone or do outreach another way........and wait for guidance from the perfect one who will never lie or lead you astray...dont be sad, i am sure you have many skills tohelp others...dancing is just one......you work hard at whatever you do i sense and if that is the case there are many ways you can outreach.......have faith i wish you brighter days ahead...less conflict and unified dreams for outreach possibilities...best wishes......deb

[Els]

Gosh Elswyth...I really believe you. I was trained to believe that Pastors are so high and mighty...no more.

 

Well... I wouldn't go the opposite way and think that all Pastors are the spawn of the devil, either.

 

Your church may have an unhealthy environment, though, and you may be better off in another. One of my best friends in high school went to theological school and became a pastor, after graduating. She was the kindest, sweetest, most selfless person ever, and honest to a fault, and probably the reason I actually remained a traditional Christian for as long as I did.

 

So take heart, there are good Pastors out there too.

[pureinheart]

I'm not sure how objective this will sound, or if there is an ability for me to be objective in this area. I've been to many churches in my day- many. The worst experiences concerned Pastor's wives (whether they carry the title of Pastor or not).

 

My God-mother used to speak of the jealousy she encountered with a number of Pastor's wives... I thought she was being unreasonable until I experienced it first-hand twice.

 

You could go through the chain of command and let the church leaders know what happened, but even with the astounding amount of evidence you have, you will most likely be dissed.

 

The Pastor's wife, for whatever reason doesn't like you and I see a religious spirit with a major dash of jealousy.

 

I suppose this is your call to stay or go, but I would suggest getting deep into the Spirit and ask for the Lord to lead you- He may want you to stay in order to break a religious spirit through whatever means He chooses...or He will tell you to leave so that you can operate in your anointing.

 

Dance IMO breaks the powers of darkness through praise and worship...the enemy cannot exist where there is praise and worship.

 

Good luck to you love, my prayers are with you:)

[Kaiten]

Yes, purein heart I have been feeling that the Pastors wife doesnt like me. And as the story suggests, I have reason to feel that way. I have noticed that she is always trying to get females to lead up. Here is another thing...

 

One of the girls in the youth likes to sing and dance and although she is underaged, and although they had someone ready, willing and waiting to lead it (ME), she went to a girl who was in high school over me. Oddly enough the girl that she went to wants me to be the leader of it along with just about everyone else...

[pie2]

Sometimes God closes doors for reasons. And sometimes, we try and try and try to break the door down....until God finally gives us what we want. But do you know what often happens? We realize that there was a reason God was keeping us from something!

 

It doesn't seem to be in God's plans right now, Kaiten. It's not only the Pastor's wife at work here. God's plan is at work. And for whatever reason, it's just not happening. I know it's beyond frustrating, but I think that these are the times when we need to pray even more. Pray for the Pastor's wife, pray for the dance team, for the church, and for those who aren't saved.

 

You really don't know what sort of trouble God is saving you from, as he has kept you from this position. Instead of frustration for how it's happening, say "thanks God!" for saving you from something you can't even see.

[CC12]

I am young. (far too young to have an opinion in church)

 

Bryan said that the reason that I would never be picked for the dance ministry is that I was "too skilled" and that "a person as skilled as I was would only take glory away from God"

 

We were manipulated and set against one another.

 

None of us have any rights in church. We are too young (in our 20s), none of us have kids for the church to love and adore, or are in our career fields. We feel disposable.

 

I'm not a church-goer (I only know a little bit about it,) so maybe anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt, but if you said the above things about any organization, I would suggest the same thing: Maybe it's time for you to consider joining a different church where you'll feel important and valued.

 

In my opinion, it's kind of ridiculous that you're "too young" to have your opinions listened to, or "too skilled" to use your talents in a meaningful way. They may have had their reasons for assigning leadership roles to certain people, but I would not appreciate being lied to about it, and I would be very angry that lies about me were told to others. It damaged relationships, and I don't think I would leave myself in a position where things like this could happen again.

 

But if you want to work it out with your church, I'm sure there's a proper way to go about it. Isn't there kind of an established method of resolving conflict in the church? You're not the first person who has had a problem with someone or something. It shouldn't be some big, scary thing to bring up your issues. If it is, maybe that's another sign that this church isn't a healthy one for you. Personally, what I would hope for would be a sit-down meeting with you, Girls #1 and 2, Wanda, Bryan, and the head pastor (or whoever handles conflicts) where everyone is calm and civil and allowed to speak and be heard.

 

And I hope you can get apologies from Wanda for lying, and from Bryan for saying something really dumb. "A person as skilled as I was would only take glory away from God." That doesn't even make sense to me. How can your god-given skill and passion take glory away from god? From my understanding, you're supposed to use your talents to serve god. A church should encourage that, not prevent you from it.

[2sunny]

This is why I hate organized religions.

 

Wanda misused her power - at your expense - I'd have something to say to her if I were you.

 

Tell her to stop speaking for you! And stop lying about your intentions.

 

Girl #1 obviously was qualified if she pulled off that big event.

[CC12]

Sorry, one more thing (as if my first post wasn't long enough.)

 

I just wanted to say that it was very cool that you cared enough to offer to help and take on a lot of responsibility. There are often not enough people who will dedicate their time and effort to help out, and there are even less people who are willing to assume the duties of a leadership role. You were willing to do all of that stuff, and that's a very special thing. Good on you. Don't lose that.

[Kaiten]

Sometimes God closes doors for reasons. And sometimes, we try and try and try to break the door down....until God finally gives us what we want. But do you know what often happens? We realize that there was a reason God was keeping us from something!

 

It doesn't seem to be in God's plans right now, Kaiten. It's not only the Pastor's wife at work here. God's plan is at work. And for whatever reason, it's just not happening. I know it's beyond frustrating, but I think that these are the times when we need to pray even more. Pray for the Pastor's wife, pray for the dance team, for the church, and for those who aren't saved.

 

You really don't know what sort of trouble God is saving you from, as he has kept you from this position. Instead of frustration for how it's happening, say "thanks God!" for saving you from something you can't even see.

 

Pie2, I used to think this way for years. This year I re-discovered something when I stopped going to church. I re-discovered that I was gifted and talented and mature and that I had something of value to contribute to the world. I think that church leaders and even pastors are too quick to dish out "God plans" for people. No matter what I endeavor to do, "troubles" come with it. If I wasnt ready for those "troubles" then what am i ready for? And who is to say what I am and am not ready for?

 

No matter how you slice it, my friends were lied to. We were set against one another. And only because we were trying to do some good in our community. This is neither holy nor just.

[Kaiten]

 

 

But if you want to work it out with your church, I'm sure there's a proper way to go about it. Isn't there kind of an established method of resolving conflict in the church?

 

Im afraid not. I have had another problem with someone in church and the "solution" is always the same. Rather than talking things out and reaching an actual conclusion, sweep it under the rug and ignore it. Claim that "moving on" in this way is a sign of maturity.

 

What I hate about this is that A) the problem never gets solved and B) It teaches young people that it is perfectly fine not to resolve conflicts. That it is okay to talk about people behind their backs, because after all, "we are human".

 

If we get everyone together then there will only be the usual pseudo-solution. Blame it on God. And by that I mean just tell the young people that it was all "God's plan". Or that there are things that we just dont get at our age. (things that they are conveniently unwilling to ever explain)

[Kaiten]

I just wanted to say that it was very cool that you cared enough to offer to help and take on a lot of responsibility. There are often not enough people who will dedicate their time and effort to help out, and there are even less people who are willing to assume the duties of a leadership role. You were willing to do all of that stuff, and that's a very special thing. Good on you. Don't lose that.

 

Thank you very much. Some people tried to pass my intentions along as "You feel entitled to leadership". That wasn't true at all, as i tried so many times to explain. I just wanted the dance ministry to produce what it was capable of. Am I wrong for this? Does not God want the same? I haven't lost that. I can't. I am more passionate than ever before. I will not stand for this to happen to more of my young adult friends and neither will I tolerate young people being brought up to believe that this is ok.

[Knoxpwns]

No disrespect in answering a long story with 4 words but...

 

Find a new church.

 

 

The way the people act in this one is despicable.

 

I predicted that girl #1 would eventually just quit...and guess what? Girl #1 actually became the leader of a large ministry that performed for a huge conference in our city later that year.

 

Just kidding. She quit.

 

I love your attitude xD

[happydate]

Im afraid not. I have had another problem with someone in church and the "solution" is always the same. Rather than talking things out and reaching an actual conclusion, sweep it under the rug and ignore it. Claim that "moving on" in this way is a sign of maturity.

 

What I hate about this is that A) the problem never gets solved and B) It teaches young people that it is perfectly fine not to resolve conflicts. That it is okay to talk about people behind their backs, because after all, "we are human".

 

If we get everyone together then there will only be the usual pseudo-solution. Blame it on God. And by that I mean just tell the young people that it was all "God's plan". Or that there are things that we just dont get at our age. (things that they are conveniently unwilling to ever explain)

 

What you've experiencing here is not all too uncommon. It all started from the top, the head of the church itself even in the middle ages about 500 years ago. Once the church in the middle ages claimed that the earth was the center of the Universe and of course people like yourself who know that isn't true voiced the untruth only to be met with bullying and even death. Once when science proved that it was wrong is when the church then backed down. Same with the earth was flat.

 

God once said:

 

"I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven"

 

Adults gained a lot of baggage living too long on earth, whereas children and young people are actually more pure and more righteous.

 

What you are noticing now is the individualization of moral and righteous among young people. The self-expression and self-leadership role they want to take over the adults of the very institution they are in, be it in church, religion group and new age movement.

 

Jesus Christ when he was living on the land has greatly opposed the orthodox teachings of the various religion that employ fear to submit to their god. He did exactly what a lot of young people today did -- speak out what is right and not be shoved under the rug. That's not a level of maturity. That is called the "Sin Of Omission". A lot of great leaders and even the famous Christian saints fall under the Sin of Omission.

Just look at the handling of the Sexual Abuse Scandal in the Vatican and how difficult John Paul had to deal with only to shove it under the rug, hoping like past events that it will somehow magically dissappear. Well it didn't and what that showed to the other churches is that, actions like this is encouraged by the higher church and so therefore it must be right. It's no wonder the churches of today are loosing millions of young membership, the very young people God wants to spread the gospel so he can populate his kingdom with.

Edited August 26, 2013 by happydate

[BetheButterfly]

I seriously need some input from random strangers who may or may not be perusing the interwebs for helpless people like me to troll.

 

...

 

Please I am begging you on behalf of all young adults everywhere...please help me figure out what to do...

 

Wow. I think it'd be good to find another church!

 

While I admire your desire to help, you can't force people. If I were in your shoes, I'd ask God to lead me to a different church, because I do not think this church is conducive to your serving. I very much respect and admire you for your dancing skills!!! Blessings!

Edited September 9, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[OpenBook]

Adults gained a lot of baggage living too long on earth, whereas children and young people are actually more pure and more righteous.

 

Well I agree about the baggage, but I don't know about righteous. Have you watched little kids on a playground? They can be mean as hell to each other. Same thing in middle & high school, only in more complicated social situations. Brutal!

 

Just some perspective for the OP. You're not the only one!

[happydate]

Well I agree about the baggage, but I don't know about righteous. Have you watched little kids on a playground? They can be mean as hell to each other. Same thing in middle & high school, only in more complicated social situations. Brutal!

 

Just some perspective for the OP. You're not the only one!

 

Yes, but let me explain your situation and also the meaning of little children.

 

When the child was born, the child possess a pure heart and a pure consciousness as what God had intended to be. As the child grows up, he or she is programmed by both their parents and their environment. If a child is raised by narcissistic parents, then the grown child will develop narcissistic behaviours. If a child is raised by people pleaser parents, then the grown child will develop people pleasing behaviours. If the child is raised by bullying parents, then the child will grow up becoming a bully. But if a child is raised by unconditionally loving and supportive parents with the drive to provide all the child's freedom of expression and independence, then the child will grow up becoming a loving authentic individual who is NOT AFRAID in expressing his or her thoughts and ideals and that going onwards, he or she will accumulate the least amount of baggage and his or her outer conditions in the world are almost always favourable. They do not have an excessive psychological imbalances that shoulder a lot of other kids in less favourable upbringing conditions.

 

To the adults who see them play on the playground, they can look mean or brutal! Especially adults who are people pleasers (nice guys, A.F.C or nice girls)! People pleasers try to please everyone by manipulating them to give you a favourable outcome is by themselves people with a certain amount of psychological imbalances. So when they look at kids and teens who express themselves authentically and truthfully, they are looking through their own psychological imbalances through a filtered lens and judge them to be mean. Cause they would not do that. They would PLEASE these people instead. Also, our society is setup in a way that we must express our opinion with political correctness rather than our true expression. This builds up repressed emotions as hate, anger, injustice, remorse, unfairness etc... As it builds up through your adult life, this will become your baggage and will become a hinderance in your quest to be one with the Lord. Because when you have fear, it's your subconscious mind that is projecting that though through a filtered program routine you've been subjected to in your younger years and had not been resolved.

 

Jesus always said that "Look at the beam in your eye" and especially made mention in Matthew 7:15. The judgement we made are made through our emotional baggage as adults! When we call people liars, perhaps then someone like myself may look at the same people, talk to them and will find them honest. Now since I look at the beam in my own eye, what happens to your beam. Did the beam that lands on your eye been somehow filtered by your own version of rose coloured glasses because you had developed some unresolved psychological imbalances through childhood?!?

 

The key to any spiritual techniques is to raise your own spiritual consciousness through internal healing. Healing the heart inside of you is the ultimate goal, not chasing and worshipping an outside god, church or diety. They won't resolve your internal psychological imbalance.

 

To be honest, I had some psychological imbalances which I resolved through therapists using a number of techniques including E.F.T.

 

Blessings..

[whichwayisup]

No disrespect in answering a long story with 4 words but...

 

Find a new church.

 

 

The way the people act in this one is despicable.

 

 

 

I love your attitude xD

 

Ditto. Find a new church because Wanda isn't going anywhere. As long as you are there, you're going to feel awkward and mistrustful towards her, as well as it is going to ruin your time focusing on what you love, dancing. She is messed up as a person and she certainly isn't doing her job properly.

[Kaiten]

WhichWay...I guess I don't really have a choice. Can I ask a question? A few people suggest that I bring the issue to someone's attention (Perhaps Wanda herself) in order to get to the bottom of it. I know my church...no one is going to even begin to believe me or either of the two girls. Not for a second. So i guess there is nothing else to do but cut ties?

 

I wouldn't want to bring it to anyone's attention like i am trying to "usurp" the Pastor's wife. I understand that they are the leaders and they decide what goes but I do not believe that deceitfulness, lying, or manipulation are able to be in the repertoire of a great church leader.

[Eve]

Didn't read some of the responses as I always look at what is needed more than what is present. If you are at the point of 'what is present' really you are doing a risk assessment more than relying on faith. There are punch in the face examples where caution is a must such as in the case of people who are probably mentally ill but really what are you saying? If a person has been found to not be truthful there are two choices, highlight it or hightlight it with something else to add.

 

Part of the essence of 'faith' is that you have something else to add and can withstand the arrows of darkness therein due to ... faith.

 

I think you need to look at what faith is all over again. You have not even entered the gate. Pointing out error is easy peasy... the then of 'what' is faith proper is NEVER entered into on ones own.

 

God fights His own corner in such matters.

 

People by large are a disapointment. God, never.

 

Take care,

Eve x

Edited September 13, 2013 by Eve

[whichwayisup]

WhichWay...I guess I don't really have a choice. Can I ask a question? A few people suggest that I bring the issue to someone's attention (Perhaps Wanda herself) in order to get to the bottom of it. I know my church...no one is going to even begin to believe me or either of the two girls. Not for a second. So i guess there is nothing else to do but cut ties?

 

I wouldn't want to bring it to anyone's attention like i am trying to "usurp" the Pastor's wife. I understand that they are the leaders and they decide what goes but I do not believe that deceitfulness, lying, or manipulation are able to be in the repertoire of a great church leader.

 

Yes, they won't believe you. And if you make waves they could ask you to find another Church.

 

It really is in your best interest to find somewhere else to go. Fresh start and be around those who you can trust and not have such stress about. Church isn't supposed to be like this! At least I hope it isn't.

 

The thing is, it's his wife and he will protect her no matter what and others will not go against the grain. And you can take that to the bank!!

[todreaminblue]

i struggled for years tryign to find a faith i felt accepted my history is pretty horrible not godly at all..feel a bit like a walking curse at times but well a little bit....godly as i am gods daughter.....he is my father so in essence .....

 

 

i just couldnt find home......home is where the heart is...translation.......wherever your heart feels comfortable that is home to you....i finally found home.....and i struggle thinking whether i am worthy to be at home now.....but the people around me are so supportive adn tell me how they are not perfect.....whatever they say i know they love the gospel as best they can they do their best and they are humble about it they live it as well as read the words they put them in practice....they follow a defined chain of command...which is how it should be.....it is protection against corruption and exaltation we are all equals.....and should follow an order that is godly given....i think they rock pretty much imperfect people like me that they are.....they follow the same order as i have to and see me as an equal.....even though i dotn feel that they see me as their sister ...and that i am ....i am part of their family.....that's what home is...family .....church should feel no different

 

 

 

i feel good when i am there emotionally overwhelmed but my heart is truly happy and at peace there...hoping i don't ever get asked to leave ...i know they wouldnt but i fear it anyway...but that's history involved so ...i have to learn now to believe i fit in......when you know leaving would break your heart....you have to feel that deep by the way....knowing you heart would break lets you know you are in the right place...... when i think about leaving the faith i have found and know to be true......i feel heart sick......until you have that sonic boom feeling you are not home ...when you are home you feel it...i also have gotten oppostion....the more opposition i get the more i know i am in the right place my heart feels indignancy.....automatic defense mode...my heart will only fight for what i love and know to be true and pure....love of family love of faith love of country(people)

 

 

 

 

you are not home ....i hope you find home.....with people who love and accept you and not out for their own personal exaltation......yours in faith of god and jesus christ..and the beauty of fidning home when you do find it.....i send my prayers that you do that god leads you....HOME...deb