PegNosePete Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 She cheated, you cheated. There are not degrees of wrongness. It doesn't matter whether what she did was worse than what you did or not. Your actions were both 100% wrong. There is no such thing as 110% or 200% wrong, 100% is the top of the scale. So she doesn't like the state of the relationship, you don't like the state of the relationship. You think she treats you badly, she thinks you treat her badly. You don't trust her, she doesn't trust you. Remind me why you are even bothering to try to fix this? It's a train wreck dude. Let it go. Move on, find someone who you can be faithful to, and who will return your loyalty. Link to post Share on other sites
tru Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 (edited) loops wrong thread! Edited August 28, 2013 by tru Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 It is always possible that she could COMPLETELY change, beg me for forgiveness and never see or think of this guy again. Obviously, I think it is very unlikely, but it is at least possible. Actually I'd bet good money she does beg for foregiveness and swear her love at some point..... the problem is it will just be another lie and manipulation. She will just be setting you up for an even bigger fall down the road. I think you are starting to see the light through the fog of love a little bit though. this gal is a lier and an operator and she is deceiving and manipulating you. At least you are starting to catch on. The thing with liers is they lie. They can also tell the truth now and then when it suits them better. But you can't tell the difference between their truths and their lies so as far as anyone is concerned everything that comes out of their mouth is a lie. Why would you want to be with someone like that? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 And I'll give you a big piece of advice I wish someone would've given me many years ago - Don't seek closure. Seeking closure is always chasing windmills. Your closure is this chick is a lying, cheating, deceiving manipulator and a future with her can only lead to pain. What can she possibly tell you that will make any of this any easier and less painfull? Answer = nothing. No matter what she says, it's still an end of a R and it is an end to the future you were imagining in your mind's eye. There is still going to be the grieving process and it is still going to have a sting to it and it will still have to heal. Nothing she says will really matter or make it all OK (she'd probably be lying anyway) Your only real closure comes when you move on with your life and follow your own pursuits without be bogged down dealing with her crap. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 No f*cking way. Talk about an unproductive interrogations session. I'd recommend this instead: "I want to talk." "I don't. Where do you want me to send your stuff?" I have to agree. What more do you need to know????????????? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JustAnotherz Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Happy that I found this thread. I got the same situation as you. My Ex for 7 years cheated on me for 3 months. I couldn't get over her. I tried NC but she kept flooding me with text and want to remain friend. She blame me for her cheating and said thing like "do we have thing in common now?", "I don't think we got a future" & many minor things. I guess people who cheat tried to reduce their guilt by doing these. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Hey there, [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]I have found this thread to be very useful too. I am pleased other peopleare also benefitting from it. I feel your pain - this has been one of the worstexperiences of my life. At least I have learnt a lot from this experience whichI can take with me. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]There is one thing I find very weird about all this and would be gratefulfor everyone's comments here. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Even though she cheated (which was cruel, selfish, dishonest etc.), I dothink she loved me (whatever that means), or at least cared very deeply aboutme. I know she would worry about me and check I was meeting my deadlines, , andtimes we had together felt genuinely fun. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]So how does that work? How can you love/careabout someone and still cheat on them? [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]es that work? And if she had so little respect for me that she wouldcheat, why did she just not leave? She could easily get another guy. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]In my case, my ex felt I didn't spend enough time with her so thought Ididn't care. She told me her needs, and when I didn't do enough, she looked forthe attention elsewhere. Was she wrong? ABSOLUTELY. Should she have left mefirst? OBVIOUSLY. But in reality, I think there are many women who would eventuallylook for "emotional gratification" elsewhere, and be too weak to leavetheir partner if they are still in love with them. I’m sure the same thing goesthe other way when guys do the cheating. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]I just want to put that out there because so many people who post here justsay: drop them. They don’t respect or deserve you. That is all true – there isno excuse for cheating. But it does not explain why she still cares about you.It also does not explain why she does not just leave (assuming she has otheroptions or is happy to be single). [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Look forward to your thoughts. Please note – I am not condoning cheating. Ihave said it is wrong – believe me, I know. I just wanted to highlightsomething that seems a bit contradictory. [/FONT][/sIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 deleted post. Link to post Share on other sites
ChooseTruth Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 (edited) Hey there, I have found this thread to be very useful too. I am pleased other people are also benefitting from it. I feel your pain - this has been one of the worst experiences of my life. At least I have learnt a lot from this experience which I can take with me. There is one thing I find very weird about all this and would be grateful for everyone's comments here. Even though she cheated (which was cruel, selfish, dishonest etc.), I do think she loved me (whatever that means), or at least cared very deeply about me. I know she would worry about me and check I was meeting my deadlines, , and times we had together felt genuinely fun. So how does that work? How can you love/care about someone and still cheat on them? es that work? And if she had so little respect for me that she would cheat, why did she just not leave? She could easily get another guy. In my case, my ex felt I didn't spend enough time with her so thought I didn't care. She told me her needs, and when I didn't do enough, she looked for the attention elsewhere. Was she wrong? ABSOLUTELY. Should she have left me first? OBVIOUSLY. But in reality, I think there are many women who would eventually look for "emotional gratification" elsewhere, and be too weak to leave their partner if they are still in love with them. I’m sure the same thing goes the other way when guys do the cheating. I just want to put that out there because so many people who post here just say: drop them. They don’t respect or deserve you. That is all true – there is no excuse for cheating. But it does not explain why she still cares about you.It also does not explain why she does not just leave (assuming she has other options or is happy to be single). Look forward to your thoughts. Please note – I am not condoning cheating. I have said it is wrong – believe me, I know. I just wanted to highlight something that seems a bit contradictory. Pasting from Word doesn't work out very well here usually. (the way I fix btw is to paste into notepad, do a series of search and replaces, and paste back) I think the answer is fear of loss, selfishness, cake eating. etc. They want it all, but that doesn't work. Edited August 30, 2013 by ChooseTruth Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 SORRY FOR MESSING UP THIS THREAD. PLEASE IGNORE MY TWO POSTS ABOVE. Hi there, I have found this thread to be very useful too. I am pleased other people are also benefitting from it. I feel your pain - this has been one of the worst experiences of my life. At least I have learnt a lot from this experience which I can take with me. There is one thing I find very weird about all this and would be grateful for everyone's comments here. Even though she cheated (which was cruel, selfish, dishonest etc.), I do think she loved me (whatever that means), or at least cared about me on some level. For example, I know she would worry about me and check I was meeting my deadlines at work etc., and the times we had together felt genuine and "real". So how does that work? How can you love/care about someone and still cheat on them? And if she had so little respect for me that she would cheat, why did she just not leave? She could easily get another boyfriend, and she knows that. In my case, my ex felt I didn't spend enough time with her so thought I didn't care. She told me her needs, and when I didn't do enough, she looked for the attention elsewhere. Was she wrong? ABSOLUTELY. Should she have left me first? OF COURSE. But in reality, I think there are many people who would eventually look for "emotional gratification" elsewhere. They should leave their partner first, but many are scared of losing the person they still love. Please note, I am not trying to justifying cheating here! I just don't think it is as simple as saying - she cheats so she must have no feelings for you and does not care about you getting hurt. I'm sure that happens too, but it is probably in the minority of cases.... any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanp Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I don't think anybody is saying she does not care for you. People cheat on people they care for all the times. There are many different levels of love. What we are trying to say is that you would not have cheated on her but she did to you putting your health at risk for STD's. You do not have a broken moral compass but she has a broken moral compass. Stop rationalizing her cheating. You need to connect with someone who does not cheat and who does not have a broken moral compass. Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JustAnotherz Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 James... I know its is hard for you to let go. Me too. But sometime we just had to. Not only for ourselves but also for the other part. The only reason you still feel the care from her is because of those time you guys spent together. I ignored her for like 2 days now ever since i give up chasing her back after i read your thread. Its always clearer for people who is outside of the situation to analysis what is really happening. For us, we are blind by our love for them hence unable to think properly. These 2 days, every morning I woke up, there would be like 50+ over or more messages from her asking me to remain as her friends and maybe get together in future. We are just fill for their emotion void now. They got used to us for the past few years. Once they feel stable with the new guy, we will be cast away. And let say they don't feel comfortable with the new guy, we are still the back up. Once another guy come along, we experience all these once again. I am not saying that there will be no chance to get back together. But seriously I bet you know how hard will it be. The trust, love and time required to make it work again. And what if it doesn't work out again? Is it worth it? Take your time on this issue like what I am doing now. You are still living well aren't you? This shows that you can live without her. Maybe now you maybe afraid of not getting another girlfriend like her. But I promise you, there are girls out there who don't cheat and willing to love as much as you love them. Life short and beautiful. Spend few weeks or months to cry, get emotional, hang out with buddy and loose yourself. But get back on your feet again once you get over it. Yea there would be time you will feel sad over her again. But yea, that life isn't it? You can't decide on what you can't control. Yet you can choose your own path from now on. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Thanks for your post. I do get it: her values are messed up, or moral compass as you put it. She gets back from her holiday in a few days and may well try to re-engage with me, even with lots of tears and remorse. But I can't see me taking her back now, or even talking to her. Although it is always possible for people to change, I know they usually don't. At least not in a big way. So, peoples actions (and not their words) are always the best guide to what you can expect from them. I have developed my 4 reasons for not taking her back. In brief, these are: a) she still has feelings for OM, b) she is likely to cheat again, c) she is not even that remorseful or committed to our relationship, d) besides all this, she lacks the emotional maturity to have a functional romantic relationship anyway. My plan is to spend the next 3 or 4 months not engaging with her and working on myself. Although unlikely, it is still possible she could grow up in this period and then re-evaluate how she messed up with me. Also, her relationship with the OM will resolve itself one way or another in a 3 or 4 month period. However, I do want to stress that I will NOT be waiting or hoping for her to prove herself on these 4 points. I will need to GENUINELY moving on from her now. If I can't move on after this period, I will simply not see her again until I have.... I should probably not see her until I have got myself a new stable GF. These 4 points are helping me understand WHY I am letting her go. Understanding why makes it much easier for me. But it does also leave the door open very slightly if she changes.... Maybe this is helpful for me too, while I learn to get over her.... I do suspect that I will have lost any interest in seeing her after 3 months anyway, regardless of where she is at with my 4 points. But I'm not quite there yet!! This is kindof an intermediate step for me.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 ... second thoughts - I'm over rationalising this. she shagged him 3 times. very likely was more. She wanted him not me, and just kept me strung along like a chump. Any future contact with her (friends or otherwise) would make me feel sick. And anyway, I would never properly trust her again, no matter what she said her "new feelings" were for me and the OM... So, forget about the 3 month thing. cold turkey is the way forward! Thanks everyone for your help at this very difficult time!! Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanp Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Good Luck James. Your reasons are very valid. You will look back in time that she wasted your time of you being with someone else who truly valued you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jonah Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 You are a good man James. Most likely you will attract a good woman. Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 sorry to put this on you guys, but I got one more nagging question here! Right now she is abroad (she went home for 10 days), and she will be back next week. Part of me still really wants her to fight for me, to beg for forgiveness etc. So, here is my question for you..... If she does not contact me, then I will leave it. I think that would be a simple scenario. However, if she does contact me, I REALLY want to know if she slept with him before and/or after those 3 times in December. If she did, then I cannot see any possibility of speaking to her again. GAME OVER. However, if she denies cheating at any other times other than those 2 weeks in December, I will ask to check her telephone records. I don't think she would have been able cheat without a text or call at the same time... If all this checks out then this means that she could have cheated many more times this year but chose not to. Would that not say something important about whether I can trust her? This guy has been in town for the last 4 months and they have been in contact - why would she not cheated again if she thought she would not get caught? She has admitted being physically attracted to him but promises me nothing happened. If nothing happened this year, then she chose stop on her own volition.... does that not say something important about my ability to trust her? I have a sinking feeling you guys are going to tell me that nothing she could do ever going to be enough, right? ;-) I suppose we could argue that the last 4 months were a little bit more happy than December last year, and that she would cheat again as soon as we went through another bad patch? That feels like a bit of a weak argument to me... Thanks for your thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 hey guys, thanks for your thoughts. I do have one more nagging question for you! Right now she is abroad (she went home for 10 days), and she will be back next week. Part of me still really wants her to fight for me, to beg for forgiveness etc. Although I do also accept that she is probably not trustworthy and doesn't deserve met etc. So, if she does not contact me on her return, then I will leave it. I think that would be a simple scenario. However, if she does contact me, I REALLY want to know if she slept with him before and/or after those 3 times in December. If she did, then I cannot see any possibility of speaking to her again. That would be great closure for me. GAME OVER. However, if she denies cheating at any other times other than those 2 weeks in December, I will ask to check her telephone records. I don't think she would have been able cheat without a text or call to him at the same time... If all this checks out then this means that she could have cheated many more times this year but chose not to. Would that not say something important about whether I can trust her? This guy has been back in town for the last 4 months and they have been in sporadic contact - why would she not have cheated again if she thought she would not get caught? She has admitted being physically attracted to him but promises me nothing happened. If nothing did happen this year, then she basically chose stop on her own volition.... does that not say something important about my ability to trust her going forwards? I have a sinking feeling you guys are going to tell me that nothing she could do ever going to be enough, right? Perhaps we could argue that the last 4 months were a little bit more happy than December last year, and that she would cheat again as soon as we went through another bad patch or got bored etc. But that feels like a bit of a weak argument to me. It seems to me that if she is a REAL CHEATER then she would have just carried on - I know he was still available and keen for her this year... Thanks for your thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
Zenstudent Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 It's difficult for me to understand why you ask these questions, when you know the answers from both forum posters and yourself. Several posters have told you, that in their opinion, she's much likely to cheat again based on both personal and shared experiences. You don't want to believe it - neither did anyone of us, I for one certainly didn't. Of course it's possible that she didn't cheat as much as she could have due to a lot of unknown reasons, lack of time, opportunity, STDs and maybe loyalty to you etc. It's possible. All we're/I'm saying is, you haven't got much at stake at this time in your life, you're not gonna like it much when she cheats again in 5-10 years when you have kids and even more shared history and assets. I speak from experience and you may call it projecting, but I have absolutely no interest in that, I'm just trying to help you minimize your risk and prospect of pain. But of course it's your call, I understand and respect that, and it is you who have to live your own life and handle the consequences of your choices whatever they are. Link to post Share on other sites
jamandsugarsky Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 No excuse for cheating. If she wasn't happy, she should have communicated with you, not just cheated. You're not a mind reader. Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Hey ZenStudent, Just so I understand - are you saying that if she cheats once, she can never be trusted again? Can people not learn a lesson from an experience? I have read posts on here from women who admit cheating on their man, not telling him, and then not cheating again. Although, I suppose it could be just a matter of time before they do it again. I don't know if she cheated in the last 4 months. All I know is that if she wanted to, she definitely would have: he is still interested, she still finds him attractive, they live close to each other etc. I would not forgive her even if she hasn't cheated this year. And maybe I would never be able to trust her again anyway because it happened once (or 3 times!). I just thought that if she chose to be faithful when she could have cheated, that would be a good sign. Link to post Share on other sites
Author James-London Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 She did tell me she was not happy. She said she needed more time with me, but I was going through work problems at the time.... What I need to know now is whether her not cheating in the last 4 months with this guy (when she could have easily done so) is any good reason to think she is trustworthy going forwards. I think the answer is probably not. but grateful for your thoughts. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Why do you keep inventing these pass/fail 'tests' in your mind? You are going to continue seeing 'signs' in everything and justifying your choices on these imaginary milestones and seeing new signs when life doesn't go the way you want. Try this. When you can't be there at her beck and call YOU send guys to her to keep her company and sexually satisfied. Then it won't be cheating and there won't he any surprises. Or do as others suggested and deal with your hurt and move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Misfortune Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 She did tell me she was not happy. She said she needed more time with me, but I was going through work problems at the time.... What I need to know now is whether her not cheating in the last 4 months with this guy (when she could have easily done so) is any good reason to think she is trustworthy going forwards. I think the answer is probably not. but grateful for your thoughts. Poor cheaters, life is so hard for them. How dare you hold that "not spending enough time with her" to her head and force her to cheat? -_- Why would you not drop work/your problems and stay with her 24/7? Poor baby missed you so much that she just had to get another peen in her; makes sense, right? All they do is blame shift. They hate when life gets in the way of their happiness. They're cowards and experts at manipulation. Things happen, they're all talk, do what they want and blame you. The best part is that you believe it's your fault that they cheated and they become the victim of circumstance. There is no reason to think she's trustworthy going forward, she has to earn your trust again. Link to post Share on other sites
tart6245 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Don't forgive. You can't trust someone after they do something like that. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Link to post Share on other sites
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