My girlfriend cheated - 2 questions.

[James-London]

guys - I know she acted really badly. I was just wondering whether it counts for anything that she could prove to me she has not cheated in the last 4 months when she could have easily done so? If that is not a basis for having some trust in her, can someone help me understand why?

[tart6245]

She's already destroyed your trust. If she's willing to cheat on you, who says she won't again? It's been 4 months, sure, but do you really want to be waiting for the next time she cheats? And she will. Girls like that always do. Don't stay with a girl like that for the long term or you'll always be wondering what she's doing when she's not with you.

[HokeyReligions]

guys - I know she acted really badly. I was just wondering whether it counts for anything that she could prove to me she has not cheated in the last 4 months when she could have easily done so? If that is not a basis for having some trust in her, can someone help me understand why?

 

No. No one can tell you but you. No one can find an explanation but you.

[aliveagain]

The real question is: "Should you pursue someone that is broken, someone that has already shown you she will cheat and lie about it if the right opportunity arises?" Will you honestly ever totally feel safe with her? Would you be ok with her going out for drinks with guys from the office after work? Would you feel ok with her going out to bars with girlfriends? How will you feel safe with someone that is willing to give her contact information to other men in front of you? Do you honestly feel that this is the best you can do? Why would an intelligent man like you be willing to settle for someone that doesn't respect him?

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

James, you sound like you are young. Like if you give her another three or four months, even six months or a year, and later find out the worst, you will be able to recover and move on and have a good life.

 

It is OK to give her as many chances as you want. You don't need anyone's permission. One of the best ways we learn about life is by making mistakes. It is good if you can listen to others who have been there and already made those mistakes, and learn from the mistakes of others, but alas, most of us seem to need to make our own.

 

If you go back with her and are vigilant, if you completely stop bugging her about the other man, let her feel secure, and if at the same time you keep your eyes open and do a little snooping, I am guessing that you will either find out she is still lying to you or find nothing. As long as you find nothing, your trust will be re-built and so will your relationship. If you find she still is being dishonest, then you can end it. Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

 

You sound like you really want to give her another chance, but deep down something is telling you not to.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

When this all came out initially, she told me she was with him casually in August/September, and she had a right to do this because we were broken up at that time. However, when I found out about her cheating before Christmas (while we were together), she changed her story. Now she says she never saw him in August/September and only pretended she was to avoid me being suspicious about November/December.

 

I accepted this for about a week. Now I am thinking: why would this guy turn down the opportunity for casual sex with her in August? He was very keen on her and it just does not fit.

 

I really want to know if she was with him then too. Also, she says she never cheated this year. But she probably did. Why wouldn't she? There were two times she was crying in my house this year and would not tell me why. The only explanation is that she was feeling guilty about cheating.

 

How can someone act so caring and interested in me, and then have so little respect for me that she would cheat like this? I really don't get that.

 

All thoughts welcome....

 

It is so funny how love stops you from seeing what is right in front of you.

 

She has lied a lot. Is there a part of this thread where you tell what she's done that is trustworthy?

[road]

sorry to put this on you guys, but I got one more nagging question here!

 

Right now she is abroad (she went home for 10 days), and she will be back next week. Part of me still really wants her to fight for me, to beg for forgiveness etc.

So, here is my question for you.....

 

If she does not contact me, then I will leave it. I think that would be a simple scenario. However, if she does contact me, I REALLY want to know if she slept with him before and/or after those 3 times in December. If she did, then I cannot see any possibility of speaking to her again. GAME OVER.

 

However, if she denies cheating at any other times other than those 2 weeks in December, I will ask to check her telephone records. I don't think she would have been able cheat without a text or call at the same time...

 

If all this checks out then this means that she could have cheated many more times this year but chose not to. Would that not say something important about whether I can trust her? This guy has been in town for the last 4 months and they have been in contact - why would she not cheated again if she thought she would not get caught? She has admitted being physically attracted to him but promises me nothing happened.

 

If nothing happened this year, then she chose stop on her own volition.... does that not say something important about my ability to trust her?

 

I have a sinking feeling you guys are going to tell me that nothing she could do ever going to be enough, right? ;-) I suppose we could argue that the last 4 months were a little bit more happy than December last year, and that she would cheat again as soon as we went through another bad patch? That feels like a bit of a weak argument to me... Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

You can never believe WW without a polygraph test. To base recovery on when the last time she banged OM is pointless. No matter what a WW did, it always could of been worse. The point is can you verify NC from dday on. That the OMW knows about the affair with your WW.

 

That is needed to know whether to think about recovery.

[JustAnotherz]

You sound like me 1 month plus back now James... I thought you have it sorted out? Why go on further when you know the truth only hurt yourself more? Unwilling to let go still? Is she really that good or you just create your own personal image about her?

 

If you really want to forgive her, you won't come to this forum and ask. Deep inside you, you can't forgive and forget what she did. Even if you two get back? when she didn't reply your messages? Who suffer? The image of another guy banging her will flood into your head again. When the time come are you going to post something like this again?

 

We all know you got a clear picture in your head about what will happen if you accept her back or what is really going on. Just that you are still unable to accept it. Its gonna be hard. You can choose either suffer now for a short period or suffer later dragging the pain.

 

I really hope you can accept the facts that the love between you and her is no longer the same. We are in the same boat. I hope you wake up soon.

[AMusing]

Thanks for your post. I do get it: her values are messed up, or moral compass as you put it. [...] Although it is always possible for people to change, I know they usually don't. At least not in a big way. So, peoples actions (and not their words) are always the best guide to what you can expect from them. [...] My plan is to spend the next 3 or 4 months not engaging with her and working on myself.

 

James, I'm glad for your sake that this relationship is winding to a close. Reading your posts has been painful; it's that toxic. She doesn't deserve a second chance, no doubt about it.

 

HOWEVER, I hope you mean it when you say you're going to work on yourself. I've noticed that you appear to be minimizing/ignoring the fact that you cheated on her, too, and that makes me doubt that you really will. If you say that her values are messed up (and they are) you have to acknowledge that your values are equally messed up. Let that really sink in--and not in the superficial, "Gee I feel bad about cheating but she did worse to me" way you've been talking about it in your posts here. When you cheated, you didn't know she had been unfaithful. Just because later you found out she was a cheater too doesn't excuse you from your misdeeds. If you don't want to be a cheater for the rest of your life, you have a lot of very hard work and introspection ahead of you (as you said, it's very hard for people to change).

[James-London]

Hey there,

 

Thanks for your posts. As you say - it is true that I cheated on her too (around March this year). There is no excusing that, and you are right I need to work on myself too.

 

Although what I did was TOTALLY wrong, I do think that the circumstances around the cheating are relevant. For example: a) I did it 1 time (with no planning and lots of alcohol), she did it 3 times after going out on dates with him, b) I have no feelings for the OW, but my ex-gf is attracted to this guy (- she even left me in part for him during the summer last year!), c) I do not blame her for what I did, she partly blames me, d) I told her the full facts when I found out about her cheating, she tried hide things at the start. etc.

 

During the breakup I have learnt all sorts of new things about my ex-gf. In brief, her father seems to be an alcoholic and a bit of an *******, and she seemed to be pretty messed up as a child. She has hidden this truth from both me and everyone else she knows. As a result, she is unable to trust people, express her emotions, or let people close to her. She also needs a lot of reassurance and attention.

 

She has also now told me that she was confused about her feelings for the OM so she made "a comparison" (!) to know for sure. She says she had no right to do that and she is very sorry about it. But now she says she is sure, and she has chosen me. She also said she felt so abandoned by me (because I was too so busy with my work) that she thought I didn't care about her anymore.

 

Apparently, the OM is very into art and music (like her) so they had more in common and they seemed to have a good connection. With me she felt "safe and secure", and the OM could never give her that, so she chose me. I have asked her if she "chose me" because he would not give her emotional and physical exclusivity and devotion. I presume that is what she means by "safe and secure", but I'm not sure. One of her less charming features is that she cannot directly answer a question. She just starts using new words which only loosely relate to what I had asked.... All this stuff is new in the last few days, when I have spent the last 3 weeks pulling my hair out trying to read between the lines.

 

So - here's the thing... The cheating hurts, big time. The thought of them together makes me nauseous, and 3 times is even worse. But I may EVENTUALLY be able to stay with her and forgive that (especially is she forgave me for my cheating, which she thinks was just as bad). If can see her being proactive about getting professional help for her issues, this would also really help.

 

However, it is her behaviour since the cheating that makes the whole thing impossible. The way she has stayed in touch with the guy and still feels affection and attraction for him (although she claims nothing has since happened). She says she still thinks about him sometimes but nothing would happen because she has chosen me... even if she has really "chosen me" and would not cheat again sexually, NO WAY would I share her heart with another guy! If I am having sex with her, would she be thinking about him? If we are on a romantic vacation, would she wish he was there instead? I just could not put myself through that.

 

The other thing, is that if she loves me so much, she will need to actually fight for me. She would need to tell me more about her family history (which I know is difficult for her to share), she would need to cut all contact with the OM (and do this willingly), she would need to make me feel she was truly serious about me.

 

One more thing - I have asked to see her telephone records. If she was in contact with him before or after December, I will know she "tried him out" once (or 3 times over a 2 week period), and then went back for more. If she has cut him out since December, then this means she has avoided cheating on me with someone she is attracted to, even though she thought she would not get caught. If she was going to cheat again, I am sure she would have done so since late March, when he got back into the country. If she refuses me the telephone records then that will be the end.

[giblesp]

Your relationship was over when cheating came into it. Think about it. One of you cheated, then the other and now your relationship has deteriorated to the point of you asking for her telephone records.

 

Cut yourself and her loose and never cheat again. If its meant to be you and her will be reunited. If not there's someone else out there.

[James-London]

How do I know if its "meant to be"? Are you saying I should just leave it to fate for a random chance meeting and then falling in love again? Otherwise, one of us would have to make the first move I guess. What about leaving it for 3, 4 or even 6 months and then inviting her for coffee to see if there are any feelings there?

 

checking telephone records is a bit extreme, I admit. but if this could show that she has not cheated in the last 4 months, I think I could have some confidence she would not cheat again in the future. After all our relationship was under pressure in April/May and she had his number then.

 

I think the ball is in her court now. If really wants me enough, she will do whatever she can to get me back. Showing telephone records should not be such an issue for her. If she refuses, either she has something to hide, or keeping her records private (when she has NOTHING to hide) is more important than a relationship with me.

 

If I had nothing to hide, I would share my phone records in a heart beat. I'd do it even if I didn't want to get back together, just so I could allay the other persons suspicions.

 

All this started 4 weeks ago now. first 2 weeks were a nightmare, and then last 2 weeks have each been a bit better... maybe I just need to ride this out.

[AMusing]

Thanks for your posts. As you say - it is true that I cheated on her too (around March this year). There is no excusing that, and you are right I need to work on myself too.

 

Although what I did was TOTALLY wrong, I do think that the circumstances around the cheating are relevant. For example: a) I did it 1 time (with no planning and lots of alcohol), she did it 3 times after going out on dates with him, b) I have no feelings for the OW, but my ex-gf is attracted to this guy (- she even left me in part for him during the summer last year!), c) I do not blame her for what I did, she partly blames me, d) I told her the full facts when I found out about her cheating, she tried hide things at the start. etc.

 

Dude, reread what you wrote. "There is no excuse for my behavior, but here are my excuses...." Listen, I'm not saying that what your girlfriend did to you was ok. Her actions were disgusting, and I wholeheartedly agree with other posters: you should drop her cheating behind and never look back. You seem to need to hear that her cheating was worse than yours. Ok, then, sure, it was worse. However, you seem to think that earns you a "get out of jail free" pass. Do you really want to judge your morality, character, and ethics on a relative scale? The trajectory you are taking leads you to cheating on your next girlfriend (but only once, feelings won't be involved, you will be drunk, and you won't tell her about it unless you find out she did something worse to you--so does that make it ok?). If that's not the path you want to take, I advise once again to stop thinking about her misdeeds, and start thinking about your own.

 

This current relationship is dead in the water (whether you try to resuscitate it or not). There has already been infidelity, jealousy, secrecy, lies--on BOTH sides--and you haven't even dated her for a year yet! How will you know if you're "meant to be?" Because sometime, years down the line, you will run across each other again as whole, mature, responsible adults, and both of you will want to start fresh (no, 3-4 months is not enough time for anyone to "fix" his/her moral compass).

 

Bottom line, her cheating and faults shouldn't be your concern anymore. You can only work on your own behavior, which you (sort of) admit was really bad too.

[James-London]

Hey AMusing,

Thanks for your post. its interesting - I had realised intellectually that my cheating was wrong, but it was so emotionally insignificant that it did not feel like a big deal. It was only after I told my ex and saw how devastated she was that I got upset about what I did. Hurting my ex is what really upset me. I am pleased you have said what she did was worse. But then its little comfort to be behaving better than someone else when what I did is still really bad. If I am tempted to cheat in the future, I hope I will re-evaluate my relationship first, rather than just give in to opportunistic selfishness.

 

Going forwards, your penultimate is what I needed to hear. What I don't want to do is have any reason for hanging on hope now I have left her. If I gave her a 3 month time period and then tried again, I would be ticking off the days in my calendar!! What you are saying here is that I need to TOTALLY let go and not plan or expect to see her ever again. If paths cross again once we have both moved on and we are older and wiser, so be it.... If they do not cross again, then I need to be cool with that too.

 

Reasons for this approach are still the same: a) she had feelings for OM for most of the relationship, and on some level she still does, b) she was just never that into me really. I was the "safe and secure" guy, and never blew her hair back - that was the OM!! This explains why she was never fighting for our relationship, either during or before the breakup, and is a strong candidate for cheating again. c) there are other women out there who I have more in common with, who have more emotional maturity and better communication skills, and who can therefore understand and support me better.

[James-London]

deleted post. duplicate already posted.

Edited September 6, 2013 by James-London
duplicate.

[AMusing]

James, I'm impressed by your last post. It sounds like you're finally getting your head back on straight after a very difficult, unhealthy relationship. We've all been there (well, at least I have). It gets better, as long as you keep working on improving yourself (and improving your choice in partners).

[crederer]

Well who did what at this point doesn't matter. This relationship is obviously doomed. You both messed up and now the relationship is messed up.

 

She basically told you the other guy didn't want to be committed with her, he just wanted to sleep with her. So she decided she didn't want that and is hoping you'll forgive and forget.

 

Is that what you want in a relationship? You want to be her second choice until this guy decides he's ready to commit to her? Because you know damn well he's still going to be sleeping with her.

 

Sorry man, relationships can get messy, and this one got really messy.

 

I'd suggest moving on and learning from your mistakes. Don't ever cheat under any circumstance because it ruins everything.