My girlfriend cheated - 2 questions.

[AlwaysGrowing]

She says that she now values our relationship much more than last year.

 

This right here.....is the get out of jail thought processes that cheaters use.

 

Bottom line...the state of your relationship should never matter whether one cheats or not. What difference should that make in regard to cheating? Breaking up or divorcing....absolutely...cheating..NEVER.

 

Whats to stop her from cheating when there is another lull in the relationship..is she going to get herself a "cup of validation" from the first available dude? Does she even see how her cheating is a reflection of herself...not you?

[oldshirt]

Hi Everyone,

 

 

 

The brief story is that she met this guy at a party 6 weeks into our relationship. I saw them flirting and she gave him her email. She promised me she was not interested in him so I let it go – I had no reason to mistrust her at the time. Now I know she was sending him flirty emails through August last year. However, they never actually met up last summer – I think he maybe had a girlfriend at the time. Then they got back in touch in November, and she slept with him 3 times in December.

 

 

 

After that, he went away for a few months, and came back early this year.

 

 

 

 

Secondly, she admits she was interested in him last year (both in the summer and before Christmas).

.

 

 

 

 

 

b) She still cannot explain why she chose to stay with me, and what her current feelings are for him. She has said that this guy likes to have “lots of girlfriends”. So, I guess this means he could not offer her an exclusive relationship.

 

.

 

I could never consider getting back with her unless I was sure what her feelings are for him. But she can't seem to explain it in any detail.

 

 

She says she sees him as “just a friend”, but I'm not sure how deep this goes.

 

One more thing – is it not a bit odd that she has remained friends with him?

 

 

Brace yourself, this is going to have a sting to it but it will help you understand the situation and your position in this R better.

 

She was 6 weeks into dating you but he clearly caught her eye but she didn't dump you outright at that time because he had another GF and didn't take her on full time. She likely would have if he had been available and had given her the green light.

 

They kept in touch and she get giving him the green light and was holding out hope for him for several months until they couldn't resist anymore and they got it on.

 

She admitted to 3 times in the sack which there are 3 times with potential witnesses and or 3 times with holes in her alibi. They have likely had much more contact than that. Women often don't count BJs and HJs and heavy make out sessions so there were probably quite a few of those as well.

 

The reason she hasn't completely dumped you yet and taken up with him is because he may still have a GF or is an actual playa' and won't take her on full time as his GF.

 

In other words, he is sexier and more sexually attractive to her but you are the "safe" "nice guy" and she doesn't want to break it off clean with you until she has the next one all lined up and ready to go.

 

In the mean time when she is a lone with her thoughts, he is probably the one she is pining for and fantasizing and dreaming about:(

 

The question you need to be asking yourself is are you willing to be the safe, nice back-up boy that keeps her entertained while she wishes her legs were over his shoulders? Are you willing to be her Plan B in bed?

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

She admitted to 3 times in the sack which there are 3 times with potential witnesses and or 3 times with holes in her alibi. They have likely had much more contact than that. Women often don't count BJs and HJs and heavy make out sessions so there were probably quite a few of those as well.

 

 

 

And if on the very outside chance that she is being completely candid and upfront (she isn't, but lets just say she is ) going to bed with someone for the 3rd time is a very intentional act.

 

You can chalk up a drunken one night stand as being drunk and stupid. You can even say going back for seconds was an attempt to see if the first time was a fluke or if there really was some chemistry there.

 

By the 3rd time the clothes come off, it is an intentional, premeditated act and it is because she was getting off on it (literally).

 

The key thing to keep in mind here is she was intentionally engaging in an ongoing sexual relationship with him and the only reason she didn't walk away from you and take up with him is because he wouldn't have her full time.

 

Are you sure you want to be with his leftovers?

[ChooseTruth]

What are you looking for? If it's an eventual long term partner, this girl is not it. My GF never cheated on me...but she kissed another man after 7 marriage and then got pregnant and didn't know who the father was after 13 years of marriage and 17 years together. We had a 9 year old girl at the time (she's 10 now). Your chances of ending up in a situation like mine are quite high if you end up with this girl. The major huge warning signs are there. I'm jealous of you, my signs were much more subtle and I didn't heed them because I thought they were much too small to worry about.

[RavenWolf]

Run. Cut your losses.

 

She disrespected you by giving her info out to a man she was clearly interested IN FRONT OF YOU.

 

She then slept with him multiple times.

 

She told you that guy likes to have "lots of girlfriends." You are her backup. If she is still in contact with this guy you can be pretty certain they will have sex again. ESPECIALLY if she throws it in your face how many opportunities she has had to do so.

 

Drop her.

 

If a woman (or a man for that matter) has so little respect for her partner that she would give out her or his contact info IN FRONT OF their partner, there are more than just red flags.

[Bryanp]

You are in such denial. If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would be so accepting as you have been.

1. She lied to your face and deliberately gave him her email because she was interested.

2. She continued to email him with flirty messages while still being your girlfriend.

3. She has sex with him at least 3 times putting your health at risk for STD's while still being your girlfriend.

4. She blames it on you.

 

I guess it is acceptable that she screwed another man behind your back 3 times and continued an emotional relationship with him putting your health at risk for STD's? What is wrong with you?

 

1. Get tested for STD's.

2. Move on and find some who can truly respect you and understands what it means to be in a committed relationship because she certainly does not.

3. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes toward her lack of respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

[Darren Steez]

First off let's cut all the guff.

 

I cheated because I wasn't sure but I am now

 

I cheated because you didn't pay attention to me

 

I cheated because he wore a pink bowtie and I thought it was hot

 

The only reason one cheats is because they want to.

 

You seem like a logical guy, so let's look at this chronologically (get it)

 

She meets him at a party..most likely likes him enough to give him contact details..then lies to your face

 

While you were working, she's talking to him, escalating that sexual attraction..while lying to your face

 

She meets with him, has sex, likes it enough to go more than the three times she claims..while lying to your face.

 

and now she gives you all the reasons for cheating except the one which is true. She cheated in spite of you and because she wanted to.

 

You take her back, you're setting the expectation level of values you require in a relationship. One where lying, cheating are ok.

[bubbaganoosh]

I could only think that if she's a lovely girl, she did a good job of spreading the love.

 

Dude. She's not a lovely girl. Maybe on the outside but start looking deeper. What's behind the T and A is a girl who is only important to herself. She cheated on you and then blamed you for it rather than take responsibility for her actions. Why? because it's easier to point a finger and blame another rather than endure the shame she brought on herself. If you want to continue with her, be prepared to carry the blame for many things because she won't.

[aliveagain]

A woman only gives out her contact information when she want's him to contact her, period. She was with you at the time, major red flag, she doesn't respect you to do that in front of you. She lied about being interested in him, don't start a serious relationship with a liar, the lies will continue to get bigger the longer you're with her. She banged him several times and then throws it in your face by telling you she could have banged more guys but didn't, sorry but you can't believe her because she's a liar. She still has feelings for him that's why their still friends, he's her back up in case things don't work out with you. She is a very poor wife candidate, you'll be wondering where and who she is really with every time she is late or out with her friends. Find someone you can trust.

[Jonah]

James, I hope that with all the replies you can see that you are not alone. Very typical WS situation, one that I have lived. We love our mates so tend to believe what we want to believe. Truth is that this lovely lass is not yours, that her fun with other guys outweighs her desire to be loyal to you. When you imagine how lovely she is, again how lovely she is with another guys penis in her mouth, a guy that you knew about, who she was deceptive with, who she had conversations about you with.

 

Then imagine being with a lady that you had complete confidence in. She is out there waiting for you and she will give you a more peaceful live.

 

I'm sorry you had to experience this, but the experience will give you insight on relationships and emotional pain that you would not have had, had you not experienced this.

 

Embrace the lovely moments with this girl, but let her, and the hurt that she brought to you go. Everything that you said she told you, it is clear to all of us that have been through this that she is being deceptive. IT is that deceptiveness, the lines that have obscure meanings, that are most harmful. Good luck to you James.

[James-London]

Dear All,

 

Firstly, thank you all so much for your guidance. I have never used these forums before and its been so helpful. I will contribute other the questions of others as I want to give back.

 

I just want to run one more thing by you...

 

When this all came out initially, she told me she was with him casually in August/September, and she had a right to do this because we were broken up at that time. However, when I found out about her cheating before Christmas (while we were together), she changed her story. Now she says she never saw him in August/September and only pretended she was to avoid me being suspicious about November/December.

 

I accepted this for about a week. Now I am thinking: why would this guy turn down the opportunity for casual sex with her in August? He was very keen on her and it just does not fit.

 

I really want to know if she was with him then too. Also, she says she never cheated this year. But she probably did. Why wouldn't she? There were two times she was crying in my house this year and would not tell me why. The only explanation is that she was feeling guilty about cheating.

 

How can someone act so caring and interested in me, and then have so little respect for me that she would cheat like this? I really don't get that.

 

All thoughts welcome....

[Zenstudent]

First... if something seems not right, there's good chance it isn't.

 

Your story could be mine 25-27 years ago. There were red flags all over the place, but I was too young, too much in love and too thankfull to have found the one for me, to realize it. When lies, flirting and being intimate with other guys than your boyfriend/husband is that easy, there's a good chance it's part of a belief system/value set - and therefore will pop up again down the road.

 

Speaking from experience... Breaking up and dealing with this isn't going to be easier with 25 years of common history and kids in the baggage.

[road]

Dear All,

 

Firstly, thank you all so much for your guidance. I have never used these forums before and its been so helpful. I will contribute other the questions of others as I want to give back.

 

I just want to run one more thing by you...

 

When this all came out initially, she told me she was with him casually in August/September, and she had a right to do this because we were broken up at that time. However, when I found out about her cheating before Christmas (while we were together), she changed her story. Now she says she never saw him in August/September and only pretended she was to avoid me being suspicious about November/December.

 

I accepted this for about a week. Now I am thinking: why would this guy turn down the opportunity for casual sex with her in August? He was very keen on her and it just does not fit.

 

I really want to know if she was with him then too. Also, she says she never cheated this year. But she probably did. Why wouldn't she? There were two times she was crying in my house this year and would not tell me why. The only explanation is that she was feeling guilty about cheating.

 

How can someone act so caring and interested in me, and then have so little respect for me that she would cheat like this? I really don't get that.

 

All thoughts welcome....

 

 

Polygraph time.

[Bryanp]

You know the answer. She is very good at lying to you and cheating on you. She has a broken moral compass that allows her to be a good actress. You are trying to understand this as if she was a moral rational person. Unfortunately she is totally into herself and does not see things like you. You are very very foolish to even consider being with her. She is toxic to you.

[aliveagain]

You have more than enough information to make a decision regarding a future with her. Your best predictor of your future with her is to look at your history together, she lied and cheated right from the beginning. This girl has problems, none you can fix. You have the opportunity to change your future, don't pass up this chance to a better outcome. Why would you ever continue in a relationship that will require you to question the paternity of your future children? Things still don't make sense because she is still lying to you. You have been given good advise, it's your decision to accept it. Remember the wise words of Forest Gump, "Stupid is what stupid does."

[James-London]

Dear everyone,

 

Thanks for being so supportive on this. I think I am usually a very logical person. It is so funny how love stops you from seeing what is right in front of you.

 

The deal is that she has gone on holiday for 10 days. If she never contacts me again, that is fine. I'll leave it. If she still wants to talk, I will ask her again if she also cheated more than 3 times - ie. before and after December. If she denies it, I will ask to see her telephone records which will very likely confirm things. I will also grill her on how she really feels about this guy, and if I was her 2nd choice.

 

Your posts have helped me realise that she is highly manipulative and dishonest person. So, I accept that I may not get to the truth, even if she does talk to me again. I could learn to accept that, but I would like to try to get closure if I can.

 

I know I need to move on now - I have done little else for 16 days now!! But I am finding it very hard to let go. Even though I am 99% sure that is the right thing to do....

 

Thanks again guys,

 

James.

[BetrayedH]

Not married.

No kids.

You still don't have the truth.

She wants to remain friends with the OM.

 

If you weren't so close to this situation, you would realize that it's a no brainer. What would you tell your best friend if he told you this story about himself?

 

As for forgiveness (which you have mentioned several times), she needs to demonstrate true remorse BEFORE you can even consider forgiveness. By this time you should know EVERY DETAIL or she is not truly remorseful. And a truly remorseful wayward GF wouldn't even consider asking you to let her keep a friendship with the OM.

 

Stay with this woman and yes, 25 years and three small kids from now you'll get another dose of it all.

[James-London]

I agree. I try not to be too black and white about relationships. It is always possible that she could COMPLETELY change, beg me for forgiveness and never see or think of this guy again. Obviously, I think it is very unlikely, but it is at least possible.

 

Perhaps the important thing is that the onus is really on her to be able to prove that things have changed. But I must not try to change her or wait for her to have some epiphany on her own.... I need to genuinely let go and move on.

 

Once I am totally over her in a few months (and preferably with someone else), I might see her for a coffee. Although, as I write this, I am also thinking - what would be the point?....

[aliveagain]

So she begs for forgiveness so what, you still have the same broken liar and cheater, nothing has changed. If you want to give her a second chance make her earn it. Get her counseling, she needs to fix what's broken or you can expect more of the same. There will always be another man with more money, more toys, the last thing you need is to be with a woman that is actively dating. She's looking to upgrade friend.

[James-London]

ultimately, I think you are right. I don't want to give her a second chance. I'm pretty sure she cheated before and after December. I would still like to know the truth, but it doesn't matter so much anymore.... Cheating 3 times in December, not telling me about it, and then trying to blame me/not show real remorse is plenty reason not to be with her.

 

The bottom line: she will likely cheat again. Even if she was totally faithful going forwards, I would never trust her again. So, that is a practical reason to split, regardless of the truth of what she actually did.

 

Finally, I also realised my social relationships have not been strong recently, so I have focused too much on her. This has probably made me too forgiving on my cheating ex. I need to reconnect with people and my projects.

 

thanks again.

[GorillaTheater]

If she still wants to talk, I will ask her again if she also cheated more than 3 times - ie. before and after December. If she denies it, I will ask to see her telephone records which will very likely confirm things. I will also grill her on how she really feels about this guy, and if I was her 2nd choice.

 

No f*cking way. Talk about an unproductive interrogations session. I'd recommend this instead:

 

"I want to talk."

 

"I don't. Where do you want me to send your stuff?"

[Jonah]

Dear All,

The only explanation is that she was feeling guilty about cheating.

 

 

All thoughts welcome....

 

That's the way my mind worked to, to twist things into a perspective in that she loved me. I am sorry to tell you that her tears may not have been about you at all, in fact she may have thought very little of you at the time. Her tears were more likely because she wasn't able to manipulate him as easily as she was manipulating you. After they both enjoyed their orgasms he probably told her "whatever, go back to your boyfriend". ...until he was ready for her again. But you are a nice safe place for her to recover so she needs you man.

 

Just telling you like it is guy, best you know now rather than have to figure it out for yourself later. What she would like you to believe is that yes she was crying because she loves you so and felt oh so guilty.

[tru]

two things I see here James.

1. I think that there is more to the story, like drug use.

2. I knew a man who after f...king a married woman said go back to your husband I don't want you becos your a slut.

[BetrayedH]

It's the lack of true remorse that's the key problem. You know you haven't been given the full truth. And she still wants to be friends with the OM. Those two things alone show that she doesn't "get it."

 

Some people have to hit rock bottom before true remorse sets in. Offering her cheap forgiveness will stop that from happening. She won't have learned the lesson she needs to learn. And THAT is what makes reconciling with her impossible; reconciling with a wayward that's not truly remorseful makes you into a volunteer instead of a victim. Don't sign up for that.

 

This won't be fun for a few months but trust us, it's better now than when you've been married for years and have kids.

 

The next woman will be a gamble, too. Sadly, there are no guarantees. But I think you'll better know when to fold next time around.

[James-London]

OK. well, both of us were unhappy in the relationship: she wanted me to spend more time with her, and I needed more affection and better communication from her.

 

I do not for a moment excuse the one time I cheated. What I did was horrible. What I can say is that, in contrast to her: a) it happened only once, b) I immediately told her all the details when I found out about her cheating, c) I genuinely feel bad about what I did and would not want to do it again, d) I had NO emotional feelings for the girl I cheated with.

 

She, on the other hand, slept with a guy 3 times (probably more) and she is really attracted to him and has feelings for him. She still partly blames me for what happened, and she is hardly begging for my forgiveness. Also, she has changed her story quite a few times to hide the truth.

 

So, yes, what I did was wrong and inexcusable. But I don't think what I did was on the same scale as what she did. Although feel free to disagree if you wish...?