Ladies: reasonable communication while your boyfriend is abroad?

[nomadic_butterfly]

You are spot on! Women tend to be more romantic and idealistic and men tend to be more rational and show us more easily than tell us. As a somewhat too pragmatic at times kind of girl, I think it is riskier for him to stay with her than the other way around. Why?

 

Because he realizes love and sustaining a relationship is more than having butterflies in the stomach every time you even think of the other person. It's also making a conscious decision to stick it out no matter what. It is acknowledging as much as you may "love someone" you may not always like them but that's ok. I personally am skeptical of anyone whose love is based purely on feelings as emotions are too unstable. I am more of love being actions that lead to feelings than the other way around. Whomever he ends up with, if she has his same philosophy there is a good chance they will have their happily ever after.

 

 

Chances are one person will be head over heels while the other person is not (even though they truly love the person deeply).

 

In the case of your boyfriend, it sounds like the temporary insanity that comes with infatuation is seriously unappetizing. This probably doesn't make sense to a romantic like yourself, but trust me, it is a valid desire.

 

What he loves about you is likely the fact that it is a practical, rational, choice. Even though that might not make sense in your world, to him, you are the perfect choice. And that's a good thing, I think.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I dunno Ruby, I have learnt that pragmatic types don't work for me. I need a crazy romantic dreamer like myself .

 

Pragmatic types make me feel like there is always something missing.

[Babolat]

Yes and pigs will fly. In fact there is more chance of pigs flying. Ruby you are just repeating the same patterns/trends over and over hoping for different results. Apparently that is called insanity..

 

The weekend will probably go great and if your recent threads are anything to go by, the following will likely happen..

 

1) We talked things through, he says he is going to try harder.

2) A few weeks/months later Update things going well, really happy.

3) Followed by Boyfriend forgets something small, molehill followed by mountain....

4) He apologies. You think of leaving...

5) Repeat all above

 

Honestly this feels more like a business transaction then a loving relationship. You will never be truly happy and satisfied with this guy and by the time you work this all out you will have lost vital years of your life. It's like watching a movie where you already know the ending..

 

This relationship has no future. You train a puppy, not a man..

 

Brad Pitt wrote this about his wife...

 

“My wife got sick. She was constantly nervous because of problems at work, personal life, her failures and children. She lost 30 pounds and weighed about 90 pounds. She got very skinny and was constantly crying. She was not a happy woman. She had suffered from continuing headaches, heart pain and jammed nerves in her back and ribs. She did not sleep well, falling asleep only in the mornings and got tired very quickly during the day. Our relationship was on the verge of a break up. Her beauty was leaving her somewhere, she had bags under her eyes, she was poking her head, and stopped taking care of herself. She refused to shoot the films and rejected any role. I lost hope and thought that we’ll get divorced soon… But then I decided to act. After all I’ve got the most beautiful woman on earth. She is the idol of more than half of men and women on earth, and I was the one allowed to fall asleep next to her and to hug her. I began to shower her with flowers, kisses and compliments. I surprised and pleased her every minute. I gave her a lot of gifts and lived just for her. I spoke in public only about her. I incorporated all themes in her direction. I praised her in front of her own and our mutual friends. You won’t believe it, but she blossomed. She became better. She gained weight, was no longer nervous and loved me even more than ever. I had no clue that she CAN love that much. And then I realized one thing: the woman is the reflection of her man"

 

A girl like you needs a man like this. Many women do..You haven't attracted a man liken this because you still need to grow more emotionally. Your therapist, self learning should help with that. Right now you have attracted your emotional (maturity) equal. I think this point is completely lost on you. You just suffer from different issues.

 

This guy you are with for all his good qualities will NEVER be capable of figuring this out on his own and showing you this kind of love mentioned in the story above. Instead you will end up being what Brad described Angelina at the start of this message..

 

The problem here is your lack or courage, to do what you know needs to be done. These are the worst mistakes in life and the one's that haunt you the most when you get older. You know what needs to be done but fear stops you. Thats not living, only breathing..That's not love of your life, that's settling.

 

'Hoping' in this case doesn't work. Taking charge does and empowering yourself. The big question is how much more time will you lose flogging this dead horse of a relationship. Only you can answer this..What you want is out there but unless you drop the anchor and fix what's wrong inside it will forever remain a pipe dream for you..

 

Very well said.

[Babolat]

Yikes. Am I the only one who finds that quite chilling? I wonder if she hadn't been the most beautiful woman on earth and the idol of millions if he'd have been willing to "live just for her" and incorporate ALL themes in her direction.

 

I thought this too as I read it. And perhaps you are right, though I do agree with what he did, he stepped up to the plate, he manned up for her. And, if indirectly, maybe even selfishly, he got her back, then kudos to him.

[Babolat]

yeah I see your point MMe. I think it would be totally amazing if he just referred to 'inner' beauty and who knows maybe he is a little bit.

 

I posted this for the message. OP needs a man to be spontaneous. Who makes her feel great when she doesn't feel great. She doesn't need a man who she regulary needs to tell him what to do. All the good is gone out of it for her, if she has to tell him.

 

I actually see her point. Practical is not for me either, but I also see why she has attracted such a guy and why she is afraid to leave. Fear and a little stubborness thrown in..

 

Having chatted with Ruby many times over PM, she is almost identical to my ex. They could be twin sisters!

 

And, I was willing to step up to the plate with my ex, and I did, and it started to become natural, and I liked it. I liked how she would tell me what she needed in the relationship. It was not often, appropriate though.

 

My ways of showing affection, being romantic, were missed by her. Once I learned what she needed, and once she learned how I showed affection, we did align better. Unfortunatley there were other major issues that caused us to end it.

[Ruby Slippers]

Fluorescent, it sounds like you have a very negative disposition. A quick check on your posting history confirms this. I see words like "doomed", "red flag", "run a mile", "damaged", "broken hearts", "verbal abuse", "letdown" in post after post.

 

Your negative perspective is a reflection of what's inside you, not what's going on with me and this guy. You make some fair points, but there's so much venom in your words that I just can't take them too seriously. You're the same person who said I wasted the past 6 months. I don't feel I've wasted a minute with him. I'm happy for all the time we've spent together, and I wouldn't change it.

 

I also find it laughable that you'd compare my relationship to a celebrity relationship. Brad & Angelina's relationship is nothing I would ever aspire to.

 

What I have here is a wonderful guy who's very different from me. All along, I've been asking whether we're too different for this to work. All along, he's encouraged me to give us a chance to adapt and harmonize. He's right that we've come a long way. And I feel I'm right to question whether we can ever harmonize enough to be truly happy together.

 

I'm pretty sure we're going to agree this weekend to part ways amicably, but I'm not entirely resigned to that. We've agreed that if we do continue, the only next logical step is couples counseling, and though he was dismissive about that earlier on, the last time we discussed it he was open to it and agreed it was the only logical next step if we continue.

 

If we do that, we'll set a time frame on it - probably 3-6 months. If we could make sufficient progress in that time, OK. If not, OK.

 

Whether or not to make that investment is up to no one but us.

[Babolat]

Fluorescent, it sounds like you have a very negative disposition. A quick check on your posting history confirms this. I see words like "doomed", "red flag", "run a mile", "damaged", "broken hearts", "verbal abuse", "letdown" in post after post.

 

Your negative perspective is a reflection of what's inside you, not what's going on with me and this guy. You make some fair points, but there's so much venom in your words that I just can't take them too seriously. You're the same person who said I wasted the past 6 months. I don't feel I've wasted a minute with him. I'm happy for all the time we've spent together, and I wouldn't change it.

 

I also find it laughable that you'd compare my relationship to a celebrity relationship. Brad & Angelina's relationship is nothing I would ever aspire to.

 

What I have here is a wonderful guy who's very different from me. All along, I've been asking whether we're too different for this to work. All along, he's encouraged me to give us a chance to adapt and harmonize. He's right that we've come a long way. And I feel I'm right to question whether we can ever harmonize enough to be truly happy together.

 

I'm pretty sure we're going to agree this weekend to part ways amicably, but I'm not entirely resigned to that. We've agreed that if we do continue, the only next logical step is couples counseling, and though he was dismissive about that earlier on, the last time we discussed it he was open to it and agreed it was the only logical next step if we continue.

 

If we do that, we'll set a time frame on it - probably 3-6 months. If we could make sufficient progress in that time, OK. If not, OK.

 

Whether or not to make that investment is up to no one but us.

 

At least Mr Conservative was willing to listen and work on changes. My ex gf was very adoment when we dated "I am not changing for you".I got her point, though it would have been nice to hear a sotry mor elike yours then.

 

And now, 6+ months post break up, she continues to tell me about all the changes she has been making for her, not for me.

 

I too had a wonderful gal who was very different from me. That difference was a big attraction. The drama and unresolved issues that came with that difference was another story.

[giblesp]

yeah I see your point MMe. I think it would be totally amazing if he just referred to 'inner' beauty and who knows maybe he is a little bit.

 

What I got from that was that he was referring to her inner beauty, at a time when her outer beauty was going. Yeah the 'she is idolized by thousands,' was a bit egotistical, but when it comes to her being the most beautiful woman in the world, we all feel that way about our partners. I know I do.

[Ruby Slippers]

Fluorescent, your message comes across as insulting and unhelpful. If you really want to help, you can leave out the exaggerated insults and focus on solutions. I see some glimmers of good advice, but they're wrapped up in a stink of negativity, which repels from the central message.

 

But I get it. You think I'm wasting my time with him. That's fine. I take responsibility for all my decisions, and you don't have to live with them. I have a very different view on the matter. I don't consider any experience to be wasted time. All experiences are learning experiences, wherever they lead.

 

I don't get why you feel the need to attack me for it, but looking at your other posts, it seems to be your pattern. I wonder where this need to attack is coming from.

 

I don't need a man to shower me with flowers, compliments, and public praise. I've attracted a few guys who are very adoring and attentive in those ways, but other elements of compatibility were missing. He provided some of those missing elements and delivered on those way beyond what I even need.

 

This guy is a rock solid, responsible provider. During our talks the past week, he frequently referred to what a good provider he is and will be, making very bold statements like, "I told you I'll take care of you for life", "my money is your money", etc. And I'm pretty sure that if I stick with him, I'll never have to worry about money again.

 

But he doesn't seem to get that financial security isn't the only thing I care about. If it was, I could have had that a dozen times over, long ago. No amount of money or security will make up for a weak emotional bond.

 

I told him I don't feel right taking money from him for anything unless I know the love is genuine and we're in it for real.

 

One of his suggestions for how we can continue a relationship as friends, if we break up, is that he can invest in my business and provide regular business strategy advice. He's already offered the advice in an informal way, but he says if we do this, it will give us a reason to keep talking as friends. His biggest fear seems to be not having me in his life at all. But I've told him I'll be his friend if I can. I'll even give him dating advice in the future, if he wants it. He certainly seems to need it!

 

I can see taking the business advice - when it comes to business and making money, he's brilliant, and I know he could help my business a lot. But I don't feel right taking money from him unless we're in a real partnership.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Ruby Slippers

[xxoo]

Oh, heck no, don't take his money. In fact, I'd take money off the table as a way of investing in the relationship, let alone your business.

 

Is he used to getting what he wants through money?

 

The whole thing about staying friends and being involved in your business if you break up....it is possible that he gets a huge reward from being the financial guru, you his protege, and that's more meaningful to him than a romantic relationship?

Edited September 20, 2013 by xxoo

[Ruby Slippers]

No, he's not used to getting what he wants with money. In fact, he's the first guy with a lot of money that I've dated who has never given me the impression he's using his money to try to win me over. In contrast, a guy I dated a while before him often talked about how well he was doing with his investments, and all the things he could do for me with his money. That was a big turn-off.

 

Like me, my boyfriend started off with basically nothing, and he's worked his ass off to get where he is. He's much more financially far along than I am - but pretty much ALL he does is work. I work very hard, but I have a personal life, too. He hardly had a personal life until he started dating. His whole mission in life is to be a strong provider, and he's doing great at reaching that goal. I also really admire that he's very frugal. He's saved most of the money he's earned, being very selective with his spending. He buys nice things - car, furniture, clothes, food - but he has a relatively few number of things, and all very high quality, the kind of things that will last decades or a lifetime.

 

But yes, he clearly loves being a generous provider with everybody. He spent a few days with his family on the way back from this trip, and he took them all TONS of gifts. His suitcase was packed with 80% gifts for friends and family. It clearly fulfills him to be generous and provide for the people he cares about.

 

He's ready to get married and start a family, and he made it clear from the very beginning of our relationship that that's what he wanted out of dating - evaluating his partner as marriage material. And shortly after we got back together, he told me he had always been thinking of me in those terms, and said he wanted to marry me, but would wait as long as I wanted so I could evaluate him and make my decision.

 

He's told me that his worst nightmare is a woman getting with him solely for his ability to provide - making a business decision about him. He said what he has with me is an emotional and romantic relationship. But I've yet to escape the feeling that he views us as a practical arrangement that makes sense from the business perspective, and from my point of view, the emotional part is lacking.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Ruby Slippers

[Babolat]

No, he's not used to getting what he wants with money. In fact, he's the first guy with a lot of money that I've dated who has never given me the impression he's using his money to try to win me over. In contrast, a guy I dated a while before him often talked about how well he was doing with his investments, and all the things he could do for me with his money. That was a big turn-off.

 

Like me, my boyfriend started off with basically nothing, and he's worked his ass off to get where he is. He's much more financially far along than I am - but pretty much ALL he does is work. I work very hard, but I have a personal life, too. He hardly had a personal life until he started dating. His whole mission in life is to be a strong provider, and he's doing great at reaching that goal. I also really admire that he's very frugal. He's saved most of the money he's earned, being very selective with his spending. He buys nice things - car, furniture, clothes, food - but he has a relatively few number of things, and all very high quality, the kind of things that will last decades or a lifetime.

 

But yes, he clearly loves being a generous provider with everybody. He spent a few days with his family on the way back from this trip, and he took them all TONS of gifts. His suitcase was packed with 80% gifts for friends and family. It clearly fulfills him to be generous and provide for the people he cares about.

 

He's ready to get married and start a family, and he made it clear from the very beginning of our relationship that that's what he wanted out of dating - evaluating his partner as marriage material. And shortly after we got back together, he told me he had always been thinking of me in those terms, and said he wanted to marry me, but would wait as long as I wanted so I could evaluate him and make my decision.

 

He's told me that his worst nightmare is a woman getting with him solely for his ability to provide - making a business decision about him. He said what he has with me is an emotional and romantic relationship. But I've yet to escape the feeling that he views us as a practical arrangement that makes sense from the business perspective, and the emotional part is lacking.

 

He does come across as pragmatic, matter of fact, almost like "this is the plan" in his thinking. Versus just letting go and "feeling". Maybe that is from his religious upbringing. It almost feels like an arranged marriage, like they do in India (one of my direct reports did this and I have talked to him about it, feels very odd to me).

 

It sounds like gifts are his way of expressing love and affection. I can say this as I have been this way in relationships before, was to a degree with my ex gf though I was becominbg more emotionally affectionate. I was becoming a hugger, a hand holder, a toucher.

 

I too buy nice stuff, I too started from dirt, nothing, no family money, paid and worked my way thru college. I was the first of 4 to get a degree and i am the baby.

 

The whole provider thing feels odd to me. I too want to take care of my partner, and will, it's just known though, we don't talk about it. He says it's his worst nightmare, yet he talks about it, brought it up very early on in your relationship.

 

He does sound like a good man, a great man, but, I have to agree with the others here, it just does not feel like he is the right man for you. I use to tell my ex gf a lot of the same things he is telling you, and I meant them. Yet I also just had this gut feeling something was wrong, off.

 

I know you are looking at this objectivley, and with emotion, which is hard, real hard. I went thru all of this over the past 6 - 8 months with my ex. It's been NC for almost 4 weeks this time, and I still think about her, differently though. I have a clearer understanding of why we did not work.

[xxoo]

He's told me that his worst nightmare is a woman getting with him solely for his ability to provide - making a business decision about him. He said what he has with me is an emotional and romantic relationship. But I've yet to escape the feeling that he views us as a practical arrangement that makes sense from the business perspective, and from my point of view, the emotional part is lacking.

 

Yet that sounds like his hard sell.

 

What else does he bring to the table as a partner? Sex doesn't count

 

As a different question, what kind of father do you think he would be? Do you think he'll be emotionally supportive of his children?

[Ruby Slippers]

Yes, I agree he is a wonderful man - just probably not the right wonderful man for me.

 

In the past week, he sounded very down on himself, but I immediately reassured him that there's nothing wrong with him - we are just different. I said, "You're gorgeous, smart, responsible, commitment-minded, and the woman who ends up with you is going to be very, very lucky." I said I'd be the luckiest woman on earth, if only I felt like he really loves me the way I want and need to be loved. I also said that whereas I think most women want this sweet stuff, some women aren't as emotional as I am and even prefer more reserved, pragmatic guys.

 

He brings absolutely everything to the table that a woman could want - EXCEPT what feels like real love to me. Believe me, it has been VERY hard to even think about letting such a wonderful guy go. I'm blown away by him as a person, and I know he's only going to get better in time. And this is why I would go to couples counseling with him for 3-6 months. He would absolutely be worth that investment, even if it didn't work out.

 

I've always known he's quite rigid and a control freak. In most ways, I don't mind this, because he's the leader of the pack, the take-charge guy who gets the job done. I've mentioned before that in school, he was the guy the kids who were getting bullied came to - then he would beat up the bullies and protect the weaker guys. (I've since learned that his father was somewhat physically abusive. Nothing too serious, but physical abuse is never good.)

 

I felt like the core of the matter came out the other night, when we were talking about his reserve in expressing feelings. It took him forever to say I love you, and really, the heart of why I broke it off after 6 months of dating is that he still hadn't said I love you, so I felt like there was no point in continuing.

 

Shortly after we got back together, he initiated all these deep discussions about love and what it is. We're both brainy nerds, and I've always loved our deep conversation, so I enjoyed this. He told me he was afraid to say I love you because he thinks those words equal a lifetime commitment, and he didn't feel right saying it till everything was aligned emotionally and logistically. This totally lines up with what I've read about the Virgo man, incidentally.

 

He finally said it, but then he didn't say it again. So I wasn't feeling good about that, and we talked about it. Eventually, he got into the pattern of saying it about once a week. I tried to make do with that, but I felt very sad that he wasn't saying it more often, and eventually I told him so.

 

Last week, he said, "First you wanted me to say it. Then you wanted me to say it more. Now you want me to say it every day. It's not my personality to say that every day. That turns it into a banality, makes it commonplace. I want to say it only when I feel very moved to say it, at special times. I'm afraid that next you'll want me to say it twice a day, then five times a day, then all the time. I'm afraid you want to control me and I'll lose my personality." He also said, "It feels humiliating that I have to prove my love to you like this after a year of being together."

 

I said, "If it feels humiliating to you to say I love you to me, wow, I don't even know what to say to that."

 

But it seems like his basic fear is the fear of losing control, of being controlled.

 

It's also worth mentioning here that if I want him to try just about anything new - even a new restaurant or something like that - I have to work on him for it FOREVER. Then he finally relents, has a wonderful time, and raves about how great it was.

 

I'm also a leader type, but I'm waaaay more laid-back than he is. Even in managing the people who work for me, I prefer to encourage them, empower them, and give them as much freedom as possible to shine however they can shine best. Even when they ASK me to be more controlling, I prefer to let the responsibility for their work rest with them, and be as hands-off as possible.

 

He, on the other hand, is a MAJOR control freak. I usually don't mind it, because he makes sound decisions and it's nice to be with someone who knows how to take charge and get things done. But if he can't let go enough to express how he feels, I don't see much promise here.

 

I think it's going to take him a lot of failures with not expressing his feelings, and losing people he cares about, to get this. I feel for him, but this is just who he is. I can't say yes to marrying him and just hope that he evolves enough emotionally in time. You can't count on potential. It has to work now.

[Ruby Slippers]

Well go with your gut. I think it's been telling you the same thing over and over for the last year, but because you think he'd make a good "partner" with all of his strong male qualities, you try and talk your heart into staying. Like he's the guy you SHOULD be in love with, but you're not.

My feeling is that I'm very much in love with him, but I don't feel like he's in love with me - because he doesn't do a very good job of expressing it, saying it.

 

I must love him, because I always want to give him the benefit of the doubt, believe in the potential, be patient with him, understand him, support him, encourage him. I think I have been very loving. But it has to go both ways. I have to feel secure in his love for me, too. And I never really have.

[heartshaped]

I have to feel secure in his love for me, too. And I never really have.

 

I completely understand this, but I do wonder if this is your hang up or his?

 

I'm curious, OP, have you ever been loved the way you want/need him to love you?

[Ruby Slippers]

That's a mistake we make as women. Banking on a man's potential. What you have is what it is and what it's going to be.

I get that now. I'm amazed it's taken me this long to get it. But better late than never!

 

Moving forward, I feel like dating is going to much easier for me. If I'm not getting the all the right crystal clear messages that he's into me within a short time, I'm moving on.

 

I'm also beginning to identify why I'm so drawn to relationships with "potential". I think I'm figuring out that it goes back to my emotionally vacant dad. When it comes to emotional expression, this guy totally reminds me of my dad, I must say. Sounds cliche, but I am only human. And at least I'm finally getting some real insight into this, waking up from some sad childhood dream of being good enough to win the love I want and need. Again, better late than never!

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm curious, OP, have you ever been loved the way you want/need him to love you?

Once, but his crazy interfering family ruined it. They told me I was too independent and didn't belong in their family, and my boyfriend didn't stand up for me. Instead, he ran to them to try to talk some sense into them - exactly what they wanted. He eventually stood up for the relationship, but it took him a while, and by then I was already completely let down and checked out.

 

He and I are still good friends and have made our peace about it. In fact, he's my business partner and I doubt I would have been able to do so well with this business if we hadn't created it together.

[clia]

My feeling is that I'm very much in love with him, but I don't feel like he's in love with me - because he doesn't do a very good job of expressing it, saying it.

 

This is on you, though -- not him. You need to hear it more; he doesn't feel the need to say it more. Is this really a dealbreaker to you?

 

This resonates with me:

 

He finally said it, but then he didn't say it again. So I wasn't feeling good about that, and we talked about it. Eventually, he got into the pattern of saying it about once a week. I tried to make do with that, but I felt very sad that he wasn't saying it more often, and eventually I told him so.

 

Last week, he said, "First you wanted me to say it. Then you wanted me to say it more. Now you want me to say it every day. It's not my personality to say that every day. That turns it into a banality, makes it commonplace. I want to say it only when I feel very moved to say it, at special times. I'm afraid that next you'll want me to say it twice a day, then five times a day, then all the time. I'm afraid you want to control me and I'll lose my personality." He also said, "It feels humiliating that I have to prove my love to you like this after a year of being together."

 

I'm like your boyfriend. My boyfriend explicitly remembers the first time I said "I love you" first, because I rarely do it. (I do always say it back when he says it first.) This was months after we first said it. Do I not say it more often because I don't love him? No, not at all. It is because I am not a mushy, gushy "I love you" type of person. To me, it is meaningless (and frankly, silly) to robotically say it every time you get off the phone, every morning right when you wake up, every night before you go to bed, etc. In my opinion, that is what a lot of people do. To me, words lose meaning when you say them automatically, without thinking. I would rather say them when I am strongly feeling it, and want to say it.

 

But, I am not a romantic type of person. They are just words. Are they important words? Yes, of course they are. I wouldn't stay with someone who couldn't or wouldn't ever say them. But, there is a difference between never saying the words, never feeling the words, and infrequently saying the words once "love" has been established between a couple. After that point, I would rather rely primarily on actions, not words. Anyone can say "I love you" four times a day. It takes a much better person to show "I love you" frequently.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that by not saying it every single day doesn't mean in the least that I don't love my boyfriend. I would actually think it was a little ridiculous if he expected me to say it once a day or twice a day, just to reassure him that I still felt that way. To rational, logical me, I wouldn't be with him if I didn't love him. So why do I have to keep saying it over and over again?

[heartshaped]

Once, but his crazy interfering family ruined it. They told me I was too independent and didn't belong in their family, and my boyfriend didn't stand up for me.

 

But that's sort of an oxymoron isn't it? He loved you in the way you needed, but he wouldn't stand up to his family for you. At least, not until it was too late.

 

Did you have these ideals/feelings about love before you dated this man?

 

I guess what I'm getting at is I almost feel as if you're chasing a white rabbit. You are in love with you boyfriend, he's an incredible man, and he loves you but you are willing to end this relationship because he doesn't hold up to the ideal of love you have in your head.

[Ruby Slippers]

clia, it's not JUST not saying I love you often. It's dozens of little things like that which add up to making me feel unloved. For example, he RARELY compliments me. He's probably given me a real compliment less than a dozen times. But he's pretty free with the criticism! (Exactly like my dad.)

 

To me, words lose meaning when you say them automatically, without thinking.

I never say I love you automatically, without thinking about it. When I'm with a guy I love, I WANT to say it every single day at least once, and I MEAN it every time I say it. It's never throwaway. I say it from the heart, with feeling - because I feel it. To me, a day doesn't feel complete without saying that. What if I died tomorrow? I'd be really sad that I didn't say I love you the last time I saw him. If he loves me every day, I find it hard to understand why he can't find some moment in each day to say it. Those are the sweetest words I could possibly hear from the man I love. It's like a little piece of chocolate that just makes the day much sweeter. I can have an OK day without it, but my day would be much more enjoyable with it. It's like a little spoken devotional of love.

 

But yeah, I'm starting to understand that this is just a difference. There are people like you and him out there, who don't want to say it or hear it every day, who feel that saying or hearing it often cheapens it.

[xxoo]

He brings absolutely everything to the table that a woman could want - EXCEPT what feels like real love to me.

 

I question that, based on your threads. It seems he's missing some basic things, like consideration, empathy, and thoughtfulness. Maybe even willingness to compromise.

 

Last week, he said, "First you wanted me to say it. Then you wanted me to say it more. Now you want me to say it every day. It's not my personality to say that every day. That turns it into a banality, makes it commonplace. I want to say it only when I feel very moved to say it, at special times. I'm afraid that next you'll want me to say it twice a day, then five times a day, then all the time. I'm afraid you want to control me and I'll lose my personality." He also said, "It feels humiliating that I have to prove my love to you like this after a year of being together."

 

But of course, the entire point is that you want him to feel very moved to say it every day. And he doesn't.

[xxoo]

Ruby, how does he feel loved? What's his love language?

 

I'm going to guess admiration is high for him....

[Ruby Slippers]

I question that, based on your threads. It seems he's missing some basic things, like consideration, empathy, and thoughtfulness. Maybe even willingness to compromise.

On some points, he's very considerate, empathetic, thoughtful. In other ways, not at all.

 

He did say the other night when I brought up couples counseling that he's been feeling so sad and conflicted these past couple of weeks that he feels like he should see a counselor on his own and figure out if something's wrong with him. That's noteworthy, because he used to say therapy is for crazy people, and he's not crazy.

 

Something else I've mentioned here before is that I'm not the first person to comment on how emotionally cold he can sometimes be. When he got his first job offer, the HR lady made the offer, he accepted, and she goes, "Are you happy?" And he goes, "Yes!" And she said, "OK, great. Because I couldn't tell." He also tells me that people at work have described him as cold and all business, and said he feels he would do better with people at work if he learned to be more emotionally engaged with them. He also said that men often behave as if they're threatened by him, and I see that. He's so freaking stoic and unshakable. His nickname in college was his last name + Bond, as in James Bond.

 

Fluorescent, thank you for softening your tone. I get what you're saying. I still don't agree that I've wasted time, but I hear you. I've overcome a lot to get where I am, and maybe I've taken a more meandering approach than some others. But I'm always doing my best, and that will have to be good enough. And for me, it is. Finally!

 

I'm pretty sure we're going to break up this weekend. And like I said, if we continue, I'm going to insist on an assertive plan of action for counseling so we don't waste time.

 

xxoo, he actually does not like for me to compliment him or express my admiration. He seems VERY uncomfortable with praise. I noticed that right away. He seems confident in what he brings to the table, and doesn't seem to need it reinforced by anybody. I envy that! And it has been a good influence on me. I feel that overall I'm much more secure in myself and confident after spending a year with him.

 

He's told me quite a few times that when he's with me, he's happy 100% of the time - except when I'm complaining. He seems to basically want a companion, someone who's caring and smart enough to give him advice on problems in his life, his career. He likes to be appreciated for what he contributes, but not too much. He wants a good wife and mother, someone who will support him in his goal of being a strong provider. So, basically, kind of a business partner he has sex with, it sounds like to me!

 

That's actually not too far off from what I want. We have ruminated many times about all the cool businesses we could start up together, and eventually nonprofits to do some good. I just want healthy doses of sexiness, dreaminess, and romance, too.

[Ruby Slippers]

I guess what I'm getting at is I almost feel as if you're chasing a white rabbit. You are in love with you boyfriend, he's an incredible man, and he loves you but you are willing to end this relationship because he doesn't hold up to the ideal of love you have in your head.

Yes, sometimes I think my idealism is going to be my undoing. I'm getting more practical with time, but I'm very reluctant to give up my ideals.