Ladies: reasonable communication while your boyfriend is abroad?

[xxoo]

Yes, sometimes I think my idealism is going to be my undoing. I'm getting more practical with time, but I'm very reluctant to give up my ideals.

 

I'm idealistic, too.

 

But I think that, when you meet the right man, and you are very in love with each other (mutually), ideals go out the window.

 

Here, there is plenty telling you "this isn't the one". When you are mutually in love, you tend to gloss over the faults, with the overall feeling being "this IS the one!"

[Babolat]

Ruby, the more you type and the more I read, your man is soooo much like me, or was like me. I have done a lot of "me" work since my marriage ended. He exhibits a lot of the same qualities I exhibited in my marriage.

 

And your willingness to make it work, reminds me sooo much of my last relationship. I saw all the good in her, and tried to accept "the bad". In the end I could not.

 

The control part is concerning for me. That is something to think about seriously. As a free spirit I am sure you like this control. It's usually a sign of low self esteem and confidence issues with him though. Working hard, making money, all signs of confidence issues, trying to be a provider, maybe even trying to say "look at me dad, I did well, I am OK".

 

My dad was emotionally abusive to me, emotionally and physically abusive to my mom. Sounds like he has some emotional/control/abuse issues that he needs to resolve. His dad was model if you will for how a man behaves/acts in a relationship. Be very careful; this could come out on you one day.

 

As a free spirit, he probably feels he can tame you; but he can't, and should not want to. I remember some of our PMs where he was saying he wanted to smoke pot with you, he wanted to do this and that with you, trust me, he doesn't, he may think he does. In the end, he probably wants to change you. He can't understand and wrap his hands around why you are the way you are, a free spirit. You talked about how he did not like to be with your friends, that he did not seem comfortable. That struck me, as I felt the same with some of my exes friends, as, I did not "approve" of their lifesytle choices, and I thought I wanted to change, to be more like them.

 

Back to my comments about at our core we are who we are.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm idealistic, too.

 

But I think that, when you meet the right man, and you are very in love with each other (mutually), ideals go out the window.

 

Here, there is plenty telling you "this isn't the one". When you are mutually in love, you tend to gloss over the faults, with the overall feeling being "this IS the one!"

The confusing part is I've had that feeling MANY times. Sometimes the inner voice says "HE'S THE ONE!" And sometimes the opposite. Which is why I've felt so conflicted.

 

The moment I met him, the thought flashed through my mind, "This is the man I'm going to marry." That NEVER happened before. And right away, within the first month of dating, we started having these elaborate symbolic dreams about each other, mixing and mingling with each other's families and histories. Like his whole family being there, him rescuing his dad from drowning, kissing him on the cheek, then me morphing into his dad.

 

There have also been a lot of very strange coincidences and moments of synchronicity. Like, his dad kept recommending that he read this one particular book, for years and years, but he never did. On one of our early dates, I recommended that he read the same book. Many times it has felt like he can read my mind.

 

From the beginning, I felt like I've known him forever.

 

I've always felt that we have this strong connection on the soul level - but the upper layers of things we've been taught and socialized with are different.

 

But maybe this soul connection would be better expressed in friendship. Maybe we were just supposed to teach other a few lessons and that's it.

 

I told him the other night that meeting him was life-changing for me, and it was. He agrees with that. Overall, my life is much better after knowing him.

[heartshaped]

Yes, sometimes I think my idealism is going to be my undoing. I'm getting more practical with time, but I'm very reluctant to give up my ideals.

 

I think for some idealism is poison.

 

I would say the two of you are simply incompatible, but it doesn't seem that way. It's obvious how much you love him and I think he loves you just as much. I also think however, he's a bit closed off in some ways and he isn't the most comfortable with emotions, romance, etc.

 

But all of the issues you have with him honestly seem like things that could be worked out with time with compromise and understanding from both sides.

[xxoo]

Not moments of thinking he is the one, but a consistent feeling of certainty about it, after the first 6-8 months of honeymoon period.

 

All that early stuff really doesn't count for much. Many couples find early connection, only to realize they are not compatible for the long term. It's just chemistry--necessary, but not enough on it's own.

[heartshaped]

I see this point but for me its about gut instinct. Rubys instincts are telling her something isnt right. Instinct is soooo powerful. Many times we dont know where it comes from. We can at times have difficulty rationalizing it but its there.

 

To me, gut instinct is a bunch of hogwash. People feel and think any number of things for any number of reasons. I find often people call a feeling or emotion a 'gut feeling' or an 'instinct' when they cannot rationalize it. Acting on thoughts or feelings that a person cannot explain or rationalize is irrational, imo.

 

Besides all of that, gut feelings are very often wrong even amongst people who have 'good instincts'. I just cannot fathom living my life or making decisions based upon 'gut instinct'.

 

However, facts would suggest that they are incompatible. I cannot deny that. OP is dealing with a man who is by nature, emotionally, the opposite of her. His way of expressing love is not the same as hers nor is his communication methods, levels, and strategies.

 

But I don't believe this is because he doesn't love her or because he doesn't love her in the way that she needs. I believe it's because he is such an analytical person. He doesn't give her the amount of affection, reassurance, and just general thoughtfulness she requires/wants, but I don't think it's for a lack of loving her.

 

It would seem that both the OP and her boyfriend have underlying issues that are contributing to the problems in their relationship. OP doesn't feel she's loved by her boyfriend, at least, not in the way that she needs therefore she does not feel secure and is not happy. But the underlying issue here is that somewhere along the way OP defined love as X.

 

To her, loving someone and being in love with them equals X behavior, attributes, etc. She is almost saying if you were really crazy about me you would do this behavior. Anyone will tell you that is dangerous thinking. You cannot define something like love in such a way or expect your partner's response to be x,y, or z. Yes, we all have expectations of the people we are with whether it be that he/she is a moral person or that he/she is ambitious, but those things are expectations when it comes to a person's character. OP has built up a very complex set of expectations that dictate a significant others actions or reactions.

 

I believe this all has something to do with the OP needing to feel loved. It isn't enough for her to know that she's loved or valued. She needs to feel it I would almost say constantly. Without these actions or responses from her partner she becomes discontent, but I would pose the question what if she found someone to do all of these things only to have another problem with that person. No one is going to be perfect or live up to an ideal.

 

I suspect her boyfriend does love her even in the way she describes love, but is unable to express it in the ways she deems necessary. Is it because this is who he is or because of his limited relationship experience or because of his past? It's hard to say, but I will say it sounds as if he's suppressed, has an unhealthy relationship with control, and has trouble being emphatic.

 

I think he could benefit greatly from counseling whether the two of you choose to continue or not.

 

My simple argument for not breaking up with him is that you've already ended it once and obviously was dissatisfied/unhappy with it. You chose to try things again for a reason. I wouldn't give up until you found there was simply no other avenue to be explored to make things more satisfying for you both.

[Ruby Slippers]

My simple argument for not breaking up with him is that you've already ended it once and obviously was dissatisfied/unhappy with it. You chose to try things again for a reason. I wouldn't give up until you found there was simply no other avenue to be explored to make things more satisfying for you both.

I totally see this point. This is why I'm open to giving it a little more time with counseling. I also suggested we read and discuss a good relationship book together, and my counselor said he'd ask some colleagues and recommend something good.

 

I agree with you that whether it works out or not, therapy together would be educational and help us both develop as relationship partners in general. Of course, he'll have to be open and ready to commit to that, too.

 

He gets in early tomorrow morning, and right now I'm about to go bake him a simple birthday cake. His birthday happened while he was out of the country. I asked him if he wanted to do anything to celebrate when he got back, and he said he didn't want to trouble me, and has rarely celebrated his birthday as an adult, but if I want to it would be fun. I got him something and am baking him a cake I know he loves.

 

He texted earlier and asked if he should bring a cigar to smoke. I said bring it, because no matter what, we should enjoy our time together. Smoking cigars and a pipe is his new-found hobby he picked up while we were together to help him relax. And man, he needed it bad!! He prefers to save his cigars and smoke them when we're together, which is sweet. I got him a really nice butane lighter to go with his new hobby, and I figure we can light the birthday cake candles with that. I think he's gonna love it

 

Even if we part ways this weekend, I want to end on as high a note as we can. We deserve at least that much.

 

I'll be back in a couple of days or so with an update.

[Weezy1973]

As a random comment - I would say that a more conservative man makes better relationship material. Dependable, reliable, committed etc - those are all qualities that one should look for if they want a long term relationship.

 

Question - if you are a free spirit, do you actually want a "rest of my life" relationship? Wouldn't you be happier being "free"?

[Leigh 87]

Dear Ruby,

 

I went through stages with my ex where I could cling tightly to the notion of us being "right" for each other.

However, something was amiss. Something within myself, or perhaps even with himself.

 

My ex and I parted in a similar fashion; we knew from the start that there was something peculiar that drew us together, as people.

It turned out we needed to be together, and this has resulted in a very special friendship.

 

My hunch is... You will meet some one, one day; you will see what was missing with your current guy.

 

You clearly love each other in a very deep way, so I have no question whatsoever that this has anything to do with not loving each other "enough"

 

I can see this working out very well for you.

 

There were a lot of tears when things ended with my ex and I. The thing is, it is now extremely bittersweet; I can tell you and your ex have made each others lives better, too.

 

Please enjoy your time with him.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Leigh 87

[FitChick]

 

Brad Pitt wrote this about his wife...

 

“My wife got sick. She was constantly nervous because of problems at work, personal life, her failures and children. She lost 30 pounds and weighed about 90 pounds. She got very skinny and was constantly crying. She was not a happy woman. She had suffered from continuing headaches, heart pain and jammed nerves in her back and ribs. She did not sleep well, falling asleep only in the mornings and got tired very quickly during the day. Our relationship was on the verge of a break up. Her beauty was leaving her somewhere, she had bags under her eyes, she was poking her head, and stopped taking care of herself. She refused to shoot the films and rejected any role. I lost hope and thought that we’ll get divorced soon… But then I decided to act. After all I’ve got the most beautiful woman on earth. She is the idol of more than half of men and women on earth, and I was the one allowed to fall asleep next to her and to hug her. I began to shower her with flowers, kisses and compliments. I surprised and pleased her every minute. I gave her a lot of gifts and lived just for her. I spoke in public only about her. I incorporated all themes in her direction. I praised her in front of her own and our mutual friends. You won’t believe it, but she blossomed. She became better. She gained weight, was no longer nervous and loved me even more than ever. I had no clue that she CAN love that much. And then I realized one thing: the woman is the reflection of her man"

 

 

Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are not married. This was written by someone who doesn't speak English as his first language, according to Snopes website

[travelbug1996]

As a random comment - I would say that a more conservative man makes better relationship material. Dependable, reliable, committed etc - those are all qualities that one should look for if they want a long term relationship.

 

 

In addition, women in general would prefer a mate that she's also emotionally compatible with.

 

Ruby it sounds like there is a disconnect when it comes to having an emotional connection with him, which I understand is important for us. We want somewhere that cares about how we feel and cares about how their actions affect us.

 

We want a man that calls when he's abroad because HE wants to

 

We want us a man that says he loves us everyday because HE wants to.

 

One minute he says he wants you to "train" him and the next he says he's worried that you want to "control" him. I say let live and let live. Let him be who he is and take your time deciding if you can deal or not.

 

I think it would be frustrating for you to wait and be patient until he learns to emotionally "connect". Hell, what if he never gets it?

 

I also agree with the person above that said we should learn to feel loved and valued regardless to whether our mate is making us feel that way. No one is going to meet our needs all the time but I think you understand this.

 

I'm rooting for you and I wish you to find someone who is more emotionally compatible with you. I love deeply as well and I believe that people who are emotionally repressed make poor partners. They may be good in other areas but having an emotional connection is very important to me.

[nomadic_butterfly]

Yikes. Am I the only one who finds that quite chilling? I wonder if she hadn't been the most beautiful woman on earth and the idol of millions if he'd have been willing to "live just for her" and incorporate ALL themes in her direction. Constant praise, etc. It sounds like he's married to an emotional vampire. Yuck.

 

She IS very gorgeous though.

 

The same wife that he CHEATED ON and then went on to have a brood with the skeletor?? Angelina is one cold-hearted..b...well you know the rest. LOL. And extremely weird and loopy too. His love was based on superficiality and that is fleeting...CLEARLY. That's why I am not a "hopeless romantic" but rather a "hopeful romantic" that needs balance of actions AND feelings. Too much feelings and not enough action is bad; and vice versa.

[nomadic_butterfly]

That's a mistake we make as women. Banking on a man's potential. What you have is what it is and what it's going to be.

 

Not always true. Some people just need a little push or someone in their lives (platonic and otherwise) to help them realize the greatness inside of them. I would never ever want to be with someone who lacked vision or didn't challenge me to be a better woman. I know I challenge my friends and all my former flames to be better people in all aspects.

 

I will say however, you should accept someone for who they are NOW to the extent of not trying to mold them into what you think they should be and in your own time frame. Nothing wrong with inspiring a man to be better but he has to want to be better for himself first. I believe in the saying "behind every good man is a good woman" and vice versa.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Not moments of thinking he is the one, but a consistent feeling of certainty about it, after the first 6-8 months of honeymoon period.

 

All that early stuff really doesn't count for much. Many couples find early connection, only to realize they are not compatible for the long term. It's just chemistry--necessary, but not enough on it's own.

 

Is this really how you should feel when you meet "the one"?

[Ruby Slippers]

He walked in the door, hugged me harder and longer than he ever has, and started crying on my shoulder.

 

We had a wonderful weekend, had a very honest talk, and came up with a good new idea. I don't feel like talking about it and analyzing anything yet, but we put it into practice immediately, with excellent results.

 

He apologized for not being in good touch and explained what was going on, I apologized for overreacting and avoiding him.

 

I felt the love oozing out of him all weekend. And even though I felt fine without even hearing it, he said I love you several times, and showed me clearly in dozens of ways.

 

We haven't made a plan to see each other again yet, and he said these past 2 weeks have brought up some doubt and concern, so he wants to think and reflect before making further plans. I totally understand that.

 

We both admitted we went into the weekend pretty much certain we were going to break up, but within 5 minutes of seeing each other, knew that wasn't going to happen.

 

I suggested we try our new idea for 1 month and see how it goes. He said he likes that idea, but wants to think about it a little before agreeing. That's fine with me.

 

I have a good feeling about what's coming. I'm prepared for anything, but I have a good feeling

[Ninjainpajamas]

I cometh in the pageth of number 14...wow!

 

This "relationship" is still going on! you've really got your hooks in em eh RubySlippers? can't lose the good fight?

 

This guy really just doesn't sound like he knows how to break up with you, man...he can't just let it go or find it within himself...he's got to find the courage and fortitude to just face how he feels, I don't even remember much about this relationship except for the fact that I remember him wanting to go but not know how, just a matter of time in the end...he sounds like he's breaking down when the moment comes to actually taking the knife and pushing it in...

 

You're fighting for him and he's fighting within himself...and that's just making it harder, it sounds like he's getting all emotional because he can't pull the trigger...you know like in the movies the guy is about to pull the trigger on other some guy and then he just breaks down and starts crying because he's like "not the killing kind"...that's what he sounds like to me.

 

I'm not even going to bother reading the thread at this point, has to be more of the same...I imagine you're still making excuses for him in every way, trying to find some parallel or reasoning between him wanting to be with you and not being able to move on...it's always the same imaginative roller-coaster when dude just doesn't know what the hell he is doing or how to manage his feelings, he sounds subdued by his obligation of having to stick to his convictions and words said long ago.

 

Poor guy man....oh well, disaster averted for the time being! It feels like a racing game where you just gotta get to next check point to add 20 more seconds before time runs out.

 

I know, I know I'm not welcome here...I'm going now...but 14 pages? c'mon...if anything Ruby, you do know how to engage and entertain the LS crowd, I'll give ya that.

[Ruby Slippers]

No relationship thread is complete without some big black Ninja thunderclouds

[xxoo]

A new idea? I'm intrigued.

 

Keep us updated! Hoping for the best

[Leigh 87]

It honestly sounds like he has grown to love you, opposed to falling in love with you.

 

You do sound rather cool Ruby, I can see that he must really think highly of you and love you as a person, too. He probably realises he will not get a better "match" than you. Hence he holds on. He cares too much to be able to leave.

 

Grown men do not tend to cry on your shoulder and break down, and put off breaking up with you for so long UNLESS they truly do care for you on a very deep level. This guy has other options by the sounds of things, and I can tell he must think you are pretty special to have fought hard for you over the months.....

 

I could be wrong though. About the in love thing. I just don't know of any men who took 6 plus months to say they love a women. Every man I have spoken to or heard about on here, realises they are " in love" within mere months.

 

Being the person he is, he sees you as an ideal partner who he has grown to love deeply and therefore cannot see the logic in breaking up with you..... It is very hard to abandon the idea of a future with you, when you have both grown so close and think so highly of each other.

 

Look, there are only really to options here:

 

- he is, in fact, in love with you and the way you have portrayed things to us is not how it truly is in real life.

It is therefore you that has something within yourself that is hindering you from accepting he is in love with you?

 

- or, he has grown to really love you and you KNOW he will never be in love with you in the way in which you so desire.

 

 

 

I commend you for trying to work on things and have such a positive and open outlook on relationships. You definitely will not be one to walk way in the face of adversity if you two are to break up and you find another lover...

 

I, however, would not continue based on what you had written. I have a gut feeling from the way in which you describe him and your relationship.

 

It also seems so similar to the way my ex and I were. We tried to stay together because we WERE genuinely crazy for each other; but I do not believe he was in love with me, despite how close we grew. He still tells me he has never found anyone in life like me.

[Leigh 87]

 

If YOU love HIM, you will accept him.

 

 

 

 

I strongly suspect it is him that she is doubting. I can sense it fairly strongly based on the way she has described things.

[Ruby Slippers]

The main message in what he said was: This is who I am, accept me or not. He basically asked me to stop questioning and doubting him, relax, and let him love me without trying to control how and when he does. He said I think if you can relax and stop worrying, you'll be very happy with me and we can have a good life together.

 

He said it was not the right move for him to keep adjusting to my requests and demands, but he felt like we're so good together that he needed to try anything and everything. He also said he never thought he would come back to a girl who rejected him and broke it off, but he couldn't get me out of his head and he felt my decision was premature.

 

I acknowledged that I've become more controlling and over-reactive, unintentionally, due to fear and doubt, and agreed that's completely counterproductive.

 

I'm not going to get into the details of the new idea right now, but what it boiled down to was him asking me to relax and let him give what he naturally wants to give. He said his ways of showing love are more subtle than mine, and he'll never be the romantically cartwheeling type that I am, but if I stop worrying, I'll see and feel how much he loves me.

 

I agreed to it, and from that point on, things were back to how they were at the best times. His loving actions and words went above and beyond what I was hoping for, and they were genuine.

 

Now, I know this was just one weekend after not seeing each other for a while, so you can't make any big decisions off that. We discussed that if we're to continue, our next step will be to give it another month with this new mindset. But first we're both going to reflect and see if that feels right.

 

I've been thinking and analyzing for about a month now, and now it's time to quiet that down and just get back into the positive flow of my life.

 

Of course, everybody's free to comment and question, but I'm not going to get bogged down in deep analysis of anything right now. I'm exhausted of that at the moment.

[heartshaped]

Of course, everybody's free to comment and question, but I'm not going to get bogged down in deep analysis of anything right now. I'm exhausted of that at the moment.

 

I think that's the right decision.

 

If you put anything under a microscope it will look totally different.

 

Just go with the flow. I'm optimistic for you.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I cometh in the pageth of number 14...wow!

 

This "relationship" is still going on! you've really got your hooks in em eh RubySlippers? can't lose the good fight?

 

This guy really just doesn't sound like he knows how to break up with you, man...he can't just let it go or find it within himself...he's got to find the courage and fortitude to just face how he feels, I don't even remember much about this relationship except for the fact that I remember him wanting to go but not know how, just a matter of time in the end...he sounds like he's breaking down when the moment comes to actually taking the knife and pushing it in...

 

You're fighting for him and he's fighting within himself...and that's just making it harder, it sounds like he's getting all emotional because he can't pull the trigger...you know like in the movies the guy is about to pull the trigger on other some guy and then he just breaks down and starts crying because he's like "not the killing kind"...that's what he sounds like to me.

 

I'm not even going to bother reading the thread at this point, has to be more of the same...I imagine you're still making excuses for him in every way, trying to find some parallel or reasoning between him wanting to be with you and not being able to move on...it's always the same imaginative roller-coaster when dude just doesn't know what the hell he is doing or how to manage his feelings, he sounds subdued by his obligation of having to stick to his convictions and words said long ago.

 

Poor guy man....oh well, disaster averted for the time being! It feels like a racing game where you just gotta get to next check point to add 20 more seconds before time runs out.

 

I know, I know I'm not welcome here...I'm going now...but 14 pages? c'mon...if anything Ruby, you do know how to engage and entertain the LS crowd, I'll give ya that.

 

Woah, what a prophet of doom

[xxoo]

He basically asked me to stop questioning and doubting him, relax, and let him love me without trying to control how and when he does.

 

This is a good breakthrough on his part. I'm not sure if things will work out between you or not (hoping for the best), but at least you will be on a more honest path from here on in. Let him show you exactly who he is, and then decide if that is what you want.

 

He was never going to keep up "best dating behavior" forever--esp of that behavior was already forced.

[Babolat]

And the cycle begins again....See you in 9 months (or probably less) Ruby.

 

Ninjainpajamas may be frank but is spot on. You are BOTH too emotionally immature to pull this off. This 'talk' and feeling good has happened before.

 

Ok here is where you call me negative blah blah blah but its a fact. This is two emotionally immature people scared of being alone, bending into different shapes to accomodate each other. This relationship simply cannot work.

 

You are in denial Ruby. You posted this in April after another BIG chat? Please show me the difference between now and then? There isn't any...

 

Unfortunatley, I have to agree with both posters here, having been thru something very similar and spent some time PMing Ruby.

 

My ex gf and I would go a few weeks and not see each other. In less than 10 seconds of seeing each other the emotions would just poor out. The warmth, the love, that "draw" we felt for each other. And, like Ruby, we would talk about "new ways of getting it to work". It's almost like the great sex after an argument affect.

 

We did this for a few months post break up until I finally realized, emotionally I could no longer do this, and, no matter how strong the draw to her was, how much I cared for her and loved her, how great the intimacy and sex was, at our cores, something was off. And I love to try to "fix" things, go to counseling, read self help books, all that stuff, like you Ruby. And to this day I still think about her, I probably always will.

 

But, we are just differnet, in ways that will bug both of us, always. I still have not been on a date in 6+ months; I have been on OLD sites looking. Last night I had 5+ chats going at the same time, it was overwhelming, all of them want to meet me, yet I can't "pull the trigger". And sometimes I think I should, just to see how it "feels' to "be" with another woman.

 

We are 4+ weeks NC; I feel a lot better, I am healthier, yet I still think about why it could not work.

 

Ruby, you know how much I like and respect you. Be careful here. Be logical. Our relationships ran in parallel in sooo many ways and I can hear and feel you as you write.