Babolat Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Ruby I think you seriously need to understand how a healthy, loving relationship is supposed to work. Punishing someone because they don't act and react the way you want to is so petty and immature. I mean show me someone who wants to be in a passive-aggressive relationship like that? I don't believe right now you have the ability to adapt to him, which means you are always going to feel frustrated. Even if you manage to work past this problem another one will come because deep down you know something doesn't feel right. This is your gut instinct talking. It goes way beyond anything logical. You needed to trust this instinct not constantly question it. If something feels wrong then it is wrong. If you listened to the advice you got in your other threads you would be six months single and would have done the work on yourself that you needed to. Instead you are in a mess of your own creating, that is only going to get bigger the longer you leave it. You need to take a long hard look at yourself. This isn't all about him. You are as emotionally immature as he is (just in different ways) and until you truly acknowledge that and work on these flaws, what you seek will forever be out of reach and it will never be your fault.. I think you and xxoo nailed it. This is not about the trip or the lack of communication or planning, these are triggers, reminders if you will to a deeper concern Ruby has with this man. More examples of what's bothering her. Just like my ex accepting a drink from a man in bar is not a big deal; it points to a deeper issue, concern I had with the relationship. Ruby, I have an incredible amount of respect for you. You have helped me navigate thru a difficult time in my life. Your PMs to me have greatly helped me. I feel for you as I am going thru this, again, 5+ months post breakup. We never started dating again, yet we were doing something. I am crazy about this woman and everything feels soooo right...my gut, my inner voice, my intuition just tells me her drinking and my drinking do not align, her values and mine, though very close, are off. Her morals and mine, though again, very close, are off. And just who we are as people, our views, the data we have collected over the years that helps us makes decisions, we are different. Example: she took her daughter canoeing last weekend, admirable right? I looked at the 20+ pics she posted on FB from the adventure. 3-4 of them are her in a bikini posing with her daughter. her breasts are pushed up as high as they can be. 5+ "male friends" comment about her bikini, her body. She "Likes" these comments. All with her daughter in the photos and her daughter can see this on FB. That is just wrong to me. Same thing Friday night, a night out with the girls, low cut skirt, low cut top, lots of photos on her FB page, lots of men commenting on her looks, her body. One types a entire paragraph comment on how beautiful she is, how great her body looks, and she says "I need to frame this!" It's just feels like the need for male attention, too much, lack of confidence, self-esteem. In the end, is this a deal breaker? I struggle with that. It's been 3 days NC for us, it hurts, I miss her, I am thinking about her, I bumped into her best friend and her husband yesterday at a bluegrass festival. I was with my female best friend. We all 4 talked for a long time; all I could think is why is my ex not with me, holding my hand, us being affectionate, and I was sad. I think you, like me, just know, in your gut, something is off, and you, like me, are trying to convince yourself you can work through this, it will make you a better person. He makes you a better person. You are being logical about it, like me. You probably Google like crazy, research, read, try to make it all make sense, like me. He sounds like a great man. Just maybe not the great man for you. Edited September 8, 2013 by Babolat 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Divasu Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Sounds like you have a vision of what a "perfect love" should be and you are trying to mold him to fit that vision. 3 days would not cause this much upheaval otherwise... A week, two weeks of silence? Then I could get on board. But not 3 days. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Eclypse Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 3 days isn't much. If one of us is abroad we're usually busy or have different time zones. I don't think it's healthy to demand this much contact. Link to post Share on other sites
LittleTrout Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) I've been overseas for about a year, and will be for another year possibly. My GF lives in the USA. I skype my girl 2-3 times a week, and we constantly text/ email. I have a local SIM card for my phone and pay $15 a month for internet we use a texting program like kik to avoid real SMS text charges, kik sends messages through the internet. But i don't think i've gone a single day without texting multiple times. other than maybe if i'm in the process of moving between countries on a plane. Edited September 9, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Ruby I like you and most of the time I really do respect your opinions but if a guy can't travel without it causing all this drama it is not a good sign. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Surprisingly, things have gone pretty well since he got back. In short, we're both being respectful, but I'm being very clear and holding nothing back. He contracted some version of strep throat while overseas and is just finishing a course of strong medication now. Some of his travel was in remote regions, overpopulated places with poor infrastructure and water supply, etc. We haven't talked a whole lot about the trip yet, but it sounds like it was busy and stressful. He said he was irritable and complaining a lot of the time, and I definitely noticed that while he was there. He's sincerely apologized several times for the mediocre communication, and said he didn't really get how crummy it feels not to be contacted for days until I responded in kind. He acknowledged that he understood why I pulled away and says it was justified. But he suggested I was assigning too much meaning to it, and says, "You just got a man who needs a lot of man training. And I'm learning." I haven't made any decisions. I'm just staying neutral and responding honestly to what's coming from him. I feel good about that, however it all turns out. Link to post Share on other sites
Babolat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 This comment is a bit concerning..how old is he? It feels like he is saying "I have a lot of changing to do for us". Is that a fair assessment? Not that you are forcing him to change, that he feels he needs to change for the two of you to work; and maybe he just can't cause he is who he is. I am all about improving oneself, working on relationship issues together, at our core though, we are who we are. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 This comment is a bit concerning..how old is he? It feels like he is saying "I have a lot of changing to do for us". Is that a fair assessment? Not that you are forcing him to change, that he feels he needs to change for the two of you to work; and maybe he just can't cause he is who he is. This is his longest and most serious relationship. He had very little experience before this. He comes from a conservative religious background and didn't start dating until his late 20s because he was holding out for real love. He's 32 now. He said eventually he figured he could be waiting forever, so decided to start dating and having sex a couple of years ago. He admits he's pretty clueless about women and our romantic desires. So he was saying he's had very little "man training" by a woman in a relationship. In spite of his inexperience, he does seem genuinely interested in learning, adapting. Sometimes he will not let up until I discuss even minor pesky concerns with him. He even brings up things that only bother me slightly - things I don't mention because it seems like the small stuff that can be let go. But he can usually read even that and wants to bring it to light and clarify it. Link to post Share on other sites
Babolat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) Why don't you let him loose so he can find a woman who really likes him? You seem to be too focused on small things, play games and for him to give you ego boosts regularley. It doesn't seem like a healthy or normal relationship. I don't read this, or "hear" this from Ruby. What I am starting to hear and read, is a man who is not really "where you need him to be" relationship maturity wise. That is not a bad thing, and I am sure it's exciting to be able to mold and shape him to a degree. The question is, do you always want to be putting this kind of "work", this kind of effort, into the relationship? Will you constantly be disappointed? I believe relationships do require work, compromise, talks, understanding, etc. Do you really want to be his mentor, his teacher? It's striking to me to hear myself say this, as I am starting to see how "immature" my ex gf was, even though she was 43 and has had 4 engagements before me. Sometimes it's like being with a 5 year old, sometimes a 15 year old, sometimes a 25 year old, and even sometimes a 43 year old. She craves, and I mean craves attention, affection, needing to feel needed/wanted, needing her man to boost her confidence, and I know a lot if it, maybe all of it, goes back to her abondoned childhood years. Your conservative man may have religious/conservative "issues/differences" that are at his core, regardless of how hard you try to adapt him. Dunno, just putting that out there. Edited September 9, 2013 by Babolat Link to post Share on other sites
fanine Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 My partner was very bad with communicating, not answering calls etc. I spoke to him about it, and how it made me feel. There were time we would arrange to meet and then I would be unable to contact him and didn't know what was happening. This really frustrated me as it was messing with my time and I thought showed a lack of care and respect. I had a proper chat with him, explained how it made me feel, rather than accusing him of anything. I explained if something came up and we couldn't meet etc then to just let me know so I could get on and do something else. I explained I wasn't pissed necessarily because he couldn't make it, even though I wanted to see him, it was the fact he didn't tell me what was happening. With not returning calls etc I explained it made me feel like he didn't really care. He is different to the OP's partner in that he has had several relationships but the fact is the previous women just put up with this. So he didn't see a problem with it. nowdays? He never really acts like this any more. The odd time he has slipped he is the one to say to me first im sorry. He does understand why this behaviour isn't cool now. But it took a proper chat rather than an arguement to get to this situation. It does sound to me like the OP's partner is aware of his behaviour now and how it upsets the OP and It does sound like he is trying to work on it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 "You just got a man who needs a lot of man training. And I'm learning." My gut says that he's got too much to learn, and he is either not a fast enough learner, or not a motivated enough learner. I would advise tabling all talk of moving in together and/or marriage until you are solidly satisfied with the relationship. And manage your expectations for how much he will change. Also, watch your "training" methods. If you use withdrawal of affection to teach him, what is he learning? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Babolat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 My partner was very bad with communicating, not answering calls etc. I spoke to him about it, and how it made me feel. There were time we would arrange to meet and then I would be unable to contact him and didn't know what was happening. This really frustrated me as it was messing with my time and I thought showed a lack of care and respect. I had a proper chat with him, explained how it made me feel, rather than accusing him of anything. I explained if something came up and we couldn't meet etc then to just let me know so I could get on and do something else. I explained I wasn't pissed necessarily because he couldn't make it, even though I wanted to see him, it was the fact he didn't tell me what was happening. With not returning calls etc I explained it made me feel like he didn't really care. He is different to the OP's partner in that he has had several relationships but the fact is the previous women just put up with this. So he didn't see a problem with it. nowdays? He never really acts like this any more. The odd time he has slipped he is the one to say to me first im sorry. He does understand why this behaviour isn't cool now. But it took a proper chat rather than an arguement to get to this situation. It does sound to me like the OP's partner is aware of his behaviour now and how it upsets the OP and It does sound like he is trying to work on it. My ex gf was always late, like 30, 60 sometimes 90 mins with NO contact. I finally told her, if you are going to be late, simply text me to tell me, in advance, not 30 mins after you are already late. She got it and got much better. She even started showing up on time sometimes. The key to your comment is to let them know how it makes you feel, then seek a compromise. Sometimes the other person has no idea how their actions/behaviors, or non- action causes you to feel. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 My gut says that he's got too much to learn, and he is either not a fast enough learner, or not a motivated enough learner. This is my guess. Not in love = not truly motivated to please. I was with someone in my 20s who was clearly crazy about me and showed it - and he had NO relationship experience when we got together. Still, he romanced me on our first date and first everything like a champ. That guy had stars in his eyes and love in his heart, so nothing could stop him. I would advise tabling all talk of moving in together and/or marriage until you are solidly satisfied with the relationship. And manage your expectations for how much he will change. Totally agree. I'm definitely just sitting back and evaluating right now. Totally focusing on what I'm doing, the direction I want my life to go. Also, watch your "training" methods. If you use withdrawal of affection to teach him, what is he learning? Well, my natural response to his actions was for my affection to dry up. I didn't consciously pull away. I was repelled - so much that I wanted to dump him. But I stopped just short of that. I don't understand how I could pretend everything's fine when it is so not. I do recognize that my withdrawing pattern is unusual, though, and probably not the most productive habit! I've been thinking about where that comes from, and have some ideas. I just feel like I need time to simmer down, collect my thoughts, consider the big picture. If I try to talk to him when I'm pissed off, it's hard for me to contain the emotion. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Babolat Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Well, my natural response to his actions was for my affection to dry up. I didn't consciously pull away. I was repelled - so much that I wanted to dump him. But I stopped just short of that. I don't understand how I could pretend everything's fine when it is so not. I do recognize that my withdrawing pattern is unusual, though, and probably not the most productive habit! I've been thinking about where that comes from, and have some ideas. I just feel like I need time to simmer down, collect my thoughts, consider the big picture. If I try to talk to him when I'm pissed off, it's hard for me to contain the emotion. I will shut down when I am hurt, crawl into a hole, when in a relationship. I have worked hard to not do this, rather do my processing then talk, starting with "this hurt me because....." And timing is key too, when to have the talk..the sooner the better though usually not too close to the incident/event that caused the hurt. I think RS is making right moves and the right choices. j Link to post Share on other sites
fanine Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 My ex gf was always late, like 30, 60 sometimes 90 mins with NO contact. I finally told her, if you are going to be late, simply text me to tell me, in advance, not 30 mins after you are already late. She got it and got much better. She even started showing up on time sometimes. The key to your comment is to let them know how it makes you feel, then seek a compromise. Sometimes the other person has no idea how their actions/behaviors, or non- action causes you to feel. Also you need to let them know in the right way. Now I could have started playing games, I'm sure some people would, and done the same thing to him. But to me that is idiotic. I could have also let rip at him, given him the hair dryer treatment, but then the natural reaction to that would have been him becoming defensive. Rather than saying 'you did this, you did that etc' I phrased it with how I felt when he did this. And he listened and took it in. He is now open with me too if he feels something I have done has upset him, which I have been unaware of. Really it is just open communication, avoiding drama, or sulking or confusion.. Link to post Share on other sites
fanine Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 This is my guess. Not in love = not truly motivated to please. I was with someone in my 20s who was clearly crazy about me and showed it - and he had NO relationship experience when we got together. Still, he romanced me on our first date and first everything like a champ. That guy had stars in his eyes and love in his heart, so nothing could stop him. Totally agree. I'm definitely just sitting back and evaluating right now. Totally focusing on what I'm doing, the direction I want my life to go. Well, my natural response to his actions was for my affection to dry up. I didn't consciously pull away. I was repelled - so much that I wanted to dump him. But I stopped just short of that. I don't understand how I could pretend everything's fine when it is so not. I do recognize that my withdrawing pattern is unusual, though, and probably not the most productive habit! I've been thinking about where that comes from, and have some ideas. I just feel like I need time to simmer down, collect my thoughts, consider the big picture. If I try to talk to him when I'm pissed off, it's hard for me to contain the emotion. Yep those kind of talks are always best when emotions are calmer. When my partner was doing the no replying etc at the time I wanted to shoot off texts to him telling him where to go. But I held back once I had sent the initial 'what's happening' text or call and didn't contact him again if I got no reply. However when we were together in person that is when I talked to him about it all. Not on the phone, or by text. Face to face so he could see my body language, hear the tone in my voice and when it could be said in a calm manner. Link to post Share on other sites
veggirl Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Ruby, I honestly find you to be very intelligent, thoughtful, and mature--all in a fun, whimsical way. I can't understand how you put up with this guy. I don't know if it is just how you describe him or what, but he just seems like such a DOPE. You seem like too much of a woman for him, like he needs a girl because he is a boy and you need a man because you are a woman. This "training" s.hit is so...WEIRD. Like, I get that he is new to relationships and whatever, but you've been dating for over a year. My boyfriend when I was TWENTY didn't need as much "training" as this guy does. Yes he sounds sweet and smart and all that, but...he honestly also sounds kinda retarded 2 Link to post Share on other sites
veggirl Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 also not to get OT but his eagerness to bend when "punished" is just....I don't know, it kinda reeks of repressed Catholic school boy. I feel like I'm pulling a random FitChick analysis here, lol, but I wonder if he gets off on being... almost like, reprimanded by you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Yes he sounds sweet and smart and all that, but...he honestly also sounds kinda retarded I know You made me laugh. He's one of those guys who's crazy smart in engineering, math, detailed analysis, and all that left-brained stuff... and just oblivious when it comes to some of the softer stuff. Sometimes I find this endearing - except when it hurts my feelings. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 also not to get OT but his eagerness to bend when "punished" is just....I don't know, it kinda reeks of repressed Catholic school boy. I feel like I'm pulling a random FitChick analysis here, lol, but I wonder if he gets off on being... almost like, reprimanded by you. Good insight. Yeah, I totally noticed that. We definitely have that wrestling control freak vibe to the relationship. He loves to discipline, and to a much lesser extent, be disciplined. We both seem to find this dynamic very intriguing, though, both in and out of bed. Link to post Share on other sites
veggirl Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I know You made me laugh. He's one of those guys who's crazy smart in engineering, math, detailed analysis, and all that left-brained stuff... and just oblivious when it comes to some of the softer stuff. Sometimes I find this endearing - except when it hurts my feelings. I don't mean to make light of your situation, at all. I am sure it is terribly conflicting, I mean really this is NOT a bad guy. We certainly read plenty of posts on LS about guys who really ARE bad guys and your guy does not fit that bill, but at the same time you have needs that aren't being met so no matter how great on paper he is, or how great he is compared to the douches some girls on LS post about...that doesn't necessarily make him "enough". Your internal conflict is absolutely understandable. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. What's a relaxed period in your relationship like? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 We're just talking right now. He wanted to come see me this weekend, but I'm not ready for that and not sure I will be, and told him so. I have this idea that if you're going to split up, it's best if both people can peacefully agree that it's not working and part amicably. I feel that you carry forward much less emotional baggage when you handle it like this. But again, this might be too idealistic. I might get to a point when I just have to make the call and end it. But I'm talking to him about how I feel and what I'm thinking first. I'm making the case for why this isn't working and we're just going to keep hurting each other, and he's making the case for the progress we've made and how much he wants us to stay together. We're having a philosophical discussion about love. Again, I feel like we just have totally different philosophies on the matter. He thinks "crazy love" is for the movies and teenagers, not something he aspires to, and not something he's ever experienced. I have experienced it, but that guy had a barrier to a lasting relationship, so what does that say? I also felt that for him early on, but pulled it back consciously when I felt it wasn't reciprocated - and not long after that, broke it off. I've asked myself what it was - raw animal attraction? I really don't know. There was just something "magical" about him from the very start, and that's never changed. What I think is good about our talks right now is that we're both venting our feelings and frustrations, while keeping it mature and goal-oriented. No matter what happens next, I think it's very good to express these things. Really cuts down on the emotional shock waves later. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 We're having a philosophical discussion about love. Again, I feel like we just have totally different philosophies on the matter. He thinks "crazy love" is for the movies and teenagers, not something he aspires to, and not something he's ever experienced. Maybe try changing the wording to something more concrete, and less Hollywood. Where does he stand on desire to please? Putting your partner first? Making sacrifices for the relationship? In concrete terms, what sort of relationship does he aspire to? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ruby Slippers Posted September 19, 2013 Author Share Posted September 19, 2013 Quick update from the bubble bathtub He's coming to town this weekend. I've told him I'm OK with any outcome, and I mean it. Truly, all I want is for us both to be happy at peace living a beautiful life. If we can do that as lovers, I'm in. If we can do that as friends, I'm in. This feels like true love to me. We've both been so honest and caring through this. I know we'll be OK no matter what. I'm a raw emotional nerve, but I'm staying strong and my friends have been SO loving and supportive. I feel so blessed to know them. I agree I was so petty to avoid him, and I thank those of you who called me out on it. I take full responsibility for that, and I talked to my counselor today about the sad childhood place that comes from. I'd appreciate any and all good thoughts and prayers this weekend 1 Link to post Share on other sites
myothernic2 Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Quick update from the bubble bathtub He's coming to town this weekend. I've told him I'm OK with any outcome, and I mean it. Truly, all I want is for us both to be happy at peace living a beautiful life. If we can do that as lovers, I'm in. If we can do that as friends, I'm in. This feels like true love to me. We've both been so honest and caring through this. I know we'll be OK no matter what. I'm a raw emotional nerve, but I'm staying strong and my friends have been SO loving and supportive. I feel so blessed to know them. I agree I was so petty to avoid him, and I thank those of you who called me out on it. I take full responsibility for that, and I talked to my counselor today about the sad childhood place that comes from. I'd appreciate any and all good thoughts and prayers this weekend Good luck to you! I think everything will fall into place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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