Ladies: reasonable communication while your boyfriend is abroad?

[Babolat]

That is a good post babolet.

 

The obvious thing to me is just how 'changeable' Ruby is. She wrote this herself in April. "A few people on this forum even commented that I seem to paint things with him as absolutely wonderful, or hopeless and never going to work, with not much in between". She still does it. I mean at the start of the weekend they are 'probably' going to breakup and now things look 'potentially' rosy!? Come on man (as they say on ESPN football)

 

If you pull her up on any of this, or the relationship in general she gets defensive.

 

When things don't go her way she engages in passive aggressive behaviour. An example of this when she initally refused to see him on his first weekend back, because she didn't get enough attention while he was away. Please show me a healthy relationship with this kind of dynamic?

 

He has now gone 180 from wanting to bend through hoops and getting man training to accept me for what I am, or leave. Ruby it seems (correct me if I am wrong) has gone 180 from I need him to show me this and that (or I can't see it working) to feeling optimistic after he telling her he is no longer willing to jump through hoops for her. I mean I just don't get that...

 

I guess now we are one major disagreement away from the envitable breakup. He lets her down in a way we haven't seen. Ruby says I can't do this anymore and he agree's. It's just a matter of when. Ruby relationships where these kind of rules need to be established and one or both are on eggshells will fail. This isn't negativity. This is cast iron fact. Like night following day..

 

In the meantime the clock is ticking...Tick tock. Tock tock. Your 36, not 26 and the window is closing quicker then you think. I urge you to REALLY think this through and act..This 'pull' you have to one another is NOT healthy and this is what you can't seem to recognise..It's great to want to learn from experiences and not regret them but if it means future dreams never happening is it really worth it?

 

You will never be truly satisfied with this man. No matter how many 'chats' you have. No matter how much you want to kid yourself. You will never be truly satisfied with this man. Not only that he can't be truly satisified with this version of you...

 

Changable or, adaptable. I can be this way too and I am working very hard to recognize this. I also have a difficult time saying "No" once in a LTR, ands getting what I want and need.

 

I like your clock talk too...at 47 I do not want to invest time in the wrong relationship anymore..probably why am am not doing anything right now but observing, seeing how I feel, listening to how I feel.

[Babolat]

He has now gone 180 from wanting to bend through hoops and getting man training to accept me for what I am, or leave. Ruby it seems (correct me if I am wrong) has gone 180 from I need him to show me this and that (or I can't see it working) to feeling optimistic after he telling her he is no longer willing to jump through hoops for her. I mean I just don't get that...

 

This jumped out at me in her post too..where he is now. A man who was willing to change/compromis/adapt for her, do things different for her, to one who is now saying "accept me for who I am" and learn to appreciate how "I love" and show affection.

 

I have been there, done that, have many T Shirts, and I will not be getting anymore! Being with my ex gf did showed me I am a very affectionate person with the right person, and I now crave giving and receiving affection.

 

The smoking the cigar thing jumped out at me too. Why? Because me ex gf was like Ruby, and her free spirit side attracted me. I was smoking cigars with her, smoking a cigarette occassionally, doing things "because of her" thinking I "need to let loose more". I even considered smoking pot, even though my compay does randmom drug tests. Really, it was not me, at least not on those terms.

 

Since breaking up, I have smoked a cigar at a Cuban restaurant, because I wanted to. I have taking a puff from a cigarette a couple of times, because I wanted to.

 

He seems confused himself is my point....trying to be who Ruby wants him to be..maybe trying to be somethign he really is not.

[Babolat]

It sounds like you guys "talk" about the relationship you wish you had rather than participate in the one you're in.

 

Wow, well said!

 

This is how it was with my ex gf. We both got tired of talking, thinking how to make it work, instead of just "being" and living.

 

Ruby, I think you and Mr Conservative may be there too.....

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, with a day's reflection, I'm feeling like it's gonna be a big mountain to climb to get where we want to be.

 

But all the negative spin in this thread just looks like noise to me.

 

I still don't regret a moment I've spent with him. I wouldn't change any of it.

 

I'm glad that we're being honest and fair. I think that's where the good feeling is coming from. We haven't handled everything perfectly, but overall, we're being respectful, honest, and fair.

 

I got involved with him knowing full well what the risks were, and I accepted them.

 

It doesn't bother me if a million strangers on the Internet think I've been foolish or wasted time. People's negative comments here used to bother me. I think it's telling that now it's like water off a duck's back. The negativity is a product of the person writing it, not me.

 

I appreciate all the constructive advice.

[Babolat]

I don't think anyone is trying to be overly negative. It's just that you're basically in the exact same place you've always been with him. I don't know about you but I'm in my 30's, and would love to have a family at some point. For me, my time IS precious. So much so that I can't waste it trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. It either works or it doesn't, and I'm not going to settle for anything less than magic.

 

It does seem like there is a lot of love between you, and I know that isn't easy to find, which makes the thought of walking away a very painful one. But at some point you have to make the firm decision about whether or not this guy can make you truly happy and light you up from the inside.

 

From an outsider's perspective, it doesn't seem that way.

 

I will agree..I don't see any of this as negative spin. I have been in your shoes, and know how it feels, how difficult it is, how much you just want it to work.

 

And I do not regret a minute I spent with my ex gf, while we dated, or over the past 6+ months post break up. I have learned a lot, grown a lot, and I do feel like I am in a better place. And, I am very grateful that she entered my life. She taught me a lot just by being who she is. I have a better understanding of what i am looking for in a partner now.

 

I see a lot of people who "care" about you, in an Internet kind of way, myself included. You are a good person.

 

And I do think you should take some time apart after this weekend to reflect, maybe a couple of weeks, see how you feel then. You suggested this to me, and I did, and it helped me, a lot.

[BluEyeL]

It sounds like you guys "talk" about the relationship you wish you had rather than participate in the one you're in.

That's exactly what popped into my head when reading this thread. I just abstained from posting.

[Ruby Slippers]

Fluorescent, I think you and Ninja should go have a beer You have a similar doomsday approach. I suggest you look within yourself to see where all that darkness is coming from.

 

I'm broken because I'm having problems with my boyfriend? Give me a break.

 

I am facing reality. That's why I initiated these tough conversations.

 

We discussed in a very direct way that we should not stay together simply because we fear losing each other. I've been telling him this all along. He's starting to get it.

 

You can continue to rant and insult me in this thread all you like. But I find your approach very off-putting. You had one constructive post. The rest are dramatic, exaggerated, and unhelpful. Ever heard the expression - you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

 

Your sig says "Never waste your words on a fool who won't listen." Then you spew words at me, someone you condemn as a fool who won't listen. And I'm the one with the problem? Ask yourself what you get out of wasting your words on a fool like me. Does this make you feel important? Superior?

 

If you could communicate in a calm, sensible way, I'd listen. But nobody wants to get close to a swarming hive of negativity like yours. That's the last thing I need.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Ruby Slippers

[Babolat]

I get both of you, however, do Understand where Ruby is right now. I have been there. Have a little empathy.

 

Fluorescent, your words speak to me, and make total sense to me, as I can be objective now, not emotional, as mine is in the past, But, you nailed me 6+ months ago, on the head, to the T.

 

Ruby is moving through the emotions right now, and I feel for her. I think she does get your points, and probably knows what has to happen here, yet like me 6+ months ago she has hope, dreams if you will of what could be. She is a very self-aware woman, always introspective. I just don't think right now is the time to "preach" to her, which is kind of how you are coming across. Not to me, but to someone who is "feeling" this right now.

 

When I go back and read all of my posts from when I was in my relationship, and the ones since, and see all the great advice I was given, yes, it all makes sense. At the time, though I needed to hear it, in a way, I really did not want to hear it though. I kept hoping to hear some magic, something that made sense, a supporter, a cheerleader....I read them now and think "why did I do this to myself?"

[Ruby Slippers]

Thanks, Babolat!

 

You have given me some tough love in our PMs, and I have appreciated that and listened to every word - because you did it without any insults or attacks.

 

My confidence is strong now, and that's been hard won, so when anyone tries to tear me down in any way, I just wave their noise away like a mosquito.

[xxoo]

What shyte is going to hit the fan?

 

These are two self-sufficient adults navigate an imperfect relationship. No one is being abused, and no one is at risk of being devastated. Most recently, there has been a step toward clarity, as he has stated that he will only be who he is henceforth. Whether that will be a step toward success together or ending the relationship is yet to be seen, but it is a step toward truth.

 

Why is the down side of Ruby taking some time to see where this goes?

 

And why is Ruby's avatar more fluorescent than Fluorescent's?

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, there will be no "shyte". Again, the people who prophesy doom are simply revealing what's inside themselves.

 

I've never tried to get an ex back, and never felt the pull to do so. I took him back because he asked me to, and I felt it was worth another shot. I don't regret that decision in the slightest. I wouldn't go back and make a different decision.

 

I have a strong network of support around me. I handled the breakup fine last time, and I think it will be even easier if it happens again, because I've already shown myself that life will go on without him. In fact, I've been amazed to see how caring my friends were when we broke up last time, and how they're all stepping up right now to tell me clearly that they are here for me no matter what happens. Messages like: "Are you OK?", "I'll always be here for you", "If you need anything, just let me know, and I'll be more than glad to help", "We're family. No matter what happens between us, if you're ever in trouble, I'll fly halfway around the world to be there for you."

 

The guy I dated briefly while broken up with my ex brought all the same practical qualities to the table that my boyfriend does, along with lots of sweetness and emotional good stuff. I just didn't think we were compatible in some key areas (values, family).

 

Now that I've made big strides forward personally, it's much easier for me to attract good relationship prospects than ever before.

 

A good friend of mine told me the other day that I can easily find someone who will "worship" me. I've had that a couple of times before, and that wasn't what I needed, either. Worship is too much. I just want more emotional support and sweetness.

 

My boyfriend and I discussed this, and he agreed, "It would be very easy for you to get any kind of guy you want." The same is true for him with women. Smart, sweet, cool women have always offered themselves up to him without him doing a thing except being himself. Attracting men and women isn't hard for us. It's finding just the right fit that's hard.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Ruby Slippers

[Ruby Slippers]

I said it will be easier than last time - because this time, I'll know without a doubt we tried every possible solution, so I won't be left wondering what could have been. In those circumstances, I think I'd have a much easier time focusing on the blessings of having spent the time together, and considering friendship in some form moving forward.

 

After my last relationship before this one, I was single and didn't get into anything serious for years. Though I think that solitary time had its purpose, that time feels like more a waste than any time I've spent dating or in a relationship. I'm sure I'd give myself some time to get over it. But this second attempt has only been 6 months, so it's not as though I'd be ending a very long relationship.

[MissBee]

So, I'm wondering what the women in particular think is a reasonable amount of communication to expect from your boyfriend of 1 year while he's abroad.

 

He just got back in touch after going 3 days with no contact, with no real mention of it up front. This is after regular daily contact for months. We also discussed before he went on his trip that he'd stay in touch - because his last girlfriend dumped him when he went abroad and didn't contact her at all during that time. I had to explain to him that, yeah, just dropping off the radar after 3 months of dating gives a woman the impression you don't really care about her that much.

 

He did tell me before dropping off the radar that the next few days were going to be busy, but he didn't say anything about likely not being in touch. I wouldn't have minded at all if he'd explained the situation and let me know he was going to be out of touch.

 

He has very little relationship experience, so I often wonder if he's doing these things because he doesn't care, or he's just clueless. When it comes to being attentive, in some ways he goes above and beyond. In other ways, like this one, he seems clueless.

 

This particular incident isn't a huge deal, but I'm noticing it falls into a pattern of him just not being very considerate about these things. And I'm tired of it.

 

He's also made it clear he wants to marry me, so I'm considering him for that - and stuff like this is what makes me hesitate.

 

So ladies, if your boyfriend of a year were out of the country for 3 weeks - what's the minimum degree of contact you'd find acceptable?

 

These things are all personal to each couple.

 

I don't really buy that he is clueless, as being considerate isn't really something you'd need to have dated many women to understand, and if you've spoken with him about it or he has been dumped before by a woman because of it, then he's not new to this.

 

Disappearing for 3 days is unacceptable to me personally. But it also depends on where he is and the state of available ways to communicate and simply being upfront and considerate about it. If my boyfriend were going to some remote place where I understood that he'd have no way of communicating with me frequently, I'd understand that communication would be sparse. If he is going to a place where he can still get wifi/internet regularly or even if not regularly, but it's possible...then I'd expect him to be in contact with me once a day to check in or to explain when he'd be able to check in. But to just have no contact and no explanation for days and days is not acceptable.

 

I travel a lot and generally even if my phone doesn't work in a country, my wifi does, so I can still message my friends, family and bf. I usually WANT to message the man I'm with because I miss him or just want to share about my trip. I went abroad once for a program that was intensive where we got up at 5:30 am and went on different tours, meetings, trips and got back home at 11pm on average. I didn't have phone service, I also didn't have a smart phone, so couldn't pick up wifi while out, and where we stayed had no wifi, but they did have some computers with sloooow internet we could use. Needless to say, my schedule, no phone service and lack of wifi made it impossible for me to be in constant contact so I only really emailed my family once to say I was there and alright. I didn't have a bf a(was actually getting over one at the time so it was perfect NC ) but in a case like that, if I had a boyfriend I'd email him letting him know I was okay and although I got in late at night and was tiiiiired, I'd probably take an extra 10 minutes to shoot him an email checking in. Maybe I couldn't do it every night, but I'd let him know how things were and I'd also really make the effort as much as I could.

[Ruby Slippers]

Maybe so.

 

At the same time, ask yourself how emotionally healthy it is of you to insult a stranger on the Internet who's struggling with a personal problem by calling her "broken".

[heartshaped]

It has never ceased to amuse or amaze me how some claim to know so well the intricacies of another's relationship. Relationships are more detailed and complex than what can be transcribed across a medium such as this.

 

There is advice, but then, there's judgment. I personally find it a tad insulting for some to be so preachy when those same people live in such translucent housing. Don't throw stones. Someone might catch one, throw it back, and shatter your entire home.

 

Maybe this relationship won't work, but if it doesn't Ruby will be fine and she will know that she gave it her all. Love isn't some neat, tidy little package that some want to make it. I cannot think of a single person who did not have some issue with their partner whether large or small.

 

It's only a matter of whether you can live with it or cannot or perhaps, if you're lucky, the love you share with someone will encourage that person to work on their downfalls and become better human beings.

[Babolat]

My Break Up was almost identical to Rubys, and **** did not hit the fan. We talked openly, a lot, there were many tears, and we said our goodbyes.

[Babolat]

While I agree with this, no relationship is perfect or tidy... RS has been battling this same issue with him which even caused them to break up, for quite some time now. In a nutshell, she wants to change how he operates within the confines of a relationship.

 

Men hate to think that they don't know how to make us happy. And quite frankly RS, the type of dude your BF is wouldn't make me happy, either. That doesn't make you wrong, or him wrong. In fact, I don't think you're broken. I just think you have a hard time walking away when something so glaringly obvious to a third party is right out there in the open.

 

I think you're quite insightful, and seem to be a very loving and wonderful girlfriend.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Agreed. And, if one were to summize all of my posts during and after my last relationship, it all came down to compatability and both of us trying soooo hard to make it work. My posts were all over the place, she did this, she did that, is this normal, is that normal. In the end, we were just different creatures who fell in love.

 

Ruby did a better job of keeping it to one or two posts!

[Eternal Sunshine]

I don't see the need for this excessive protection from possible heartbreak down the line. Every relationship is a learning experience and I am sure Ruby will be fine whatever the outcome.

 

I regret much more chances I didn't take because of fear and trying to protect myself, than those I did that didn't end up with "happily ever after".

 

I don't see spending time with someone you love as wasted, no matter what age you are.

[Ruby Slippers]

If you were really truly in love, the thought of breaking up would be a devastating one, and being "friends" wouldn't even be something you could stomach for quite some time.

 

And no, this is not a harsh judgment of you, and I'm not an unhappy person.

I've always found your comments helpful, never harsh

 

But I don't agree with what you're saying here.

 

The thought of breaking up with him has felt devastating many times. But at a certain point, you have to put the emotions aside and face the facts, which is what I'm doing.

 

I'm crazy about this guy and have been all along. I've never questioned that. What I have questioned is whether his feelings for me are enough, or his ability to express them is sufficient so I feel emotionally secure and happy. He's a sexy, brilliant badass with whom I've always felt a powerful soul connection. He just looks at me the right way and I'm in heat.

 

I'm an emotional person. But I also have the ability to be very rational and analytical when I must. Feelings only take you so far. Love alone is not always enough.

 

As for being friends, my view is that if you really love someone, you love them as unconditionally as possible. If we can't love each other in a romantic way without a lot of conflict and pain, then I'm willing to let go of my attachment to him being mine, and love him in another way - as a friend he can turn to for advice and support. I feel this is far more loving than simply tossing him away if we don't work as a couple. He has expressed to me in his most vulnerable moments that if we don't work, he hopes we can stay in each other's life in some way because the thought of having nothing to do with each other at all just kills him. He's just that kind of guy. He doesn't get close to people easily, but once he does, nothing breaks his loyalty. At first I dismissed the friends idea. But then I let go of my fears and opened my heart and mind to the idea. We've discussed that it's unlikely we could be more than distant friends, because we're both intense and very serious about our commitments, and will have other relationships if we don't stay together. But I said I would try.

 

He was just texting me about how stressful work is and how badly he needs to find another job, because he feels this job is taking years off his life. He's been venting to me about this for the past year, since he started this job, and I continue to listen and offer support and ideas. He told me everything he's worrying about, and said he's also thinking about us.

 

He left here last night to catch a plane to a satellite office that got delayed, and numerous travel debacles ensued. Due to a missed connection, he had to overnight in a random city, arrive late to the office, and then immediately go work his magic and try to make giant business deals in two long meetings. Then he has to go work some more over dinner with a client.

 

I said try not to worry, and definitely don't worry about us. There's no rush and no pressure, and I'm here for you no matter what. He said he would call tonight, but I said that if he's too tired and busy to call tonight, I understand and don't mind. And I mean that.

 

This kind of graciousness is the only thing that has ever done us any good together, wherever things are going.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Ruby Slippers

[Imajerk17]

These threads always have a way of going on too long IMO. At any rate we're not there. I definitely don't think RS should break up with this guy because some people on the internet think she should.

 

I actually think this is a great relationship for RS to be in personally--not that it should really matter--I'm just a dude on the internet. I think that even if it doesn't last, it is teaching her a lot of lessons about love. I think she is doing her share of growing here too.

[Ruby Slippers]

These threads always have a way of going on too long IMO. At any rate we're not there. I definitely don't think RS should break up with this guy because some people on the internet think she should.

 

I actually think this is a great relationship for RS to be in personally--not that it should really matter--I'm just a dude on the internet. I think that even if it doesn't last, it is teaching her a lot of lessons about love. I think she is doing her share of growing here too.

Exactly. This is a tremendous learning experience for both of us.

 

This relationship is forcing us both to face our fears and self-defeating tendencies, and do something about them. His position has always been: Can't we learn and grow together? Yes, we're going to make mistakes and unintentionally hurt each other sometimes, but at the core, we are good together, and we'll just keep learning and getting better.

 

Then I think of all that "don't be with someone for potential" advice.

 

I think about my dearest friends, in some cases people I had significant disagreements with early on. The friend who told me we're family and said she'd fly halfway around the world to be there for me anytime - we've dropped contact with each other numerous times over the years, due to our personal dramas. But we always come back to the friendship and forgive. And now that we've both grown up some, it's effortless and great. We're still us, and the issues that caused tension before are still present in us as people - but now we know how to handle them and not let them cause problems.

 

And yeah, this thread is now the dead horse

[Babolat]

Exactly. This is a tremendous learning experience for both of us.

 

This relationship is forcing us both to face our fears and self-defeating tendencies, and do something about them. His position has always been: Can't we learn and grow together? Yes, we're going to make mistakes and unintentionally hurt each other sometimes, but at the core, we are good together, and we'll just keep learning and getting better.

 

Then I think of all that "don't be with someone for potential" advice.

 

I think about my dearest friends, in some cases people I had significant disagreements with early on. The friend who told me we're family and said she'd fly halfway around the world to be there for me anytime - we've dropped contact with each other numerous times over the years, due to our personal dramas. But we always come back to the friendship and forgive. And now that we've both grown up some, it's effortless and great. We're still us, and the issues that caused tension before are still present in us as people - but now we know how to handle them and not let them cause problems.

 

And yeah, this thread is now the dead horse

 

No, it's a rabbit with a pancake on it's head!

 

What you just descried to me, is timing. My ex and I talked about this a lot. She was going thru a lot of life transitions when I met her, I was not. I told her in the beginning I did not think she was ready to date, for us, but she insisted. And when I say a lot, I mean a lot, like the top 5 stressors. No job, no home, recently out of a 6 year engagement, just moved, single mom raising a 12 year old daughter....

 

Maybe the timing is not right for you guys...

 

She too has always said I am her best friend, she can't imagine a life without me in it...and I believe her. Just not sure I can be that for her right now.

 

And, what upsets me when I think about our 12 months together, IS that transition, and the behaviors and actions I saw in her. And now, she tells me, she is changing, and that she realizes she was going through a transition, and has apologized many times.

 

So, do I wait it out while she changes, continues to work on herself? It took me a while, but the answer is No. I get mad when I think about what I saw over 12 months, and what may be now. Her life has settled, and I see that she has too. I am just not willing to take that risk and go there again.

 

So, maybe today is not the right time for the two of you.....

[Ruby Slippers]

I broke up with him today. I'm sad and have been crying off and on since we talked, but I feel it was the right decision and I'll be OK.

 

I tried to break up with him 3 other times this past week, and every time, he broke down crying, saying, "But I love you, Ruby," and asking me not to make the decision yet, to sleep on it, to give it more time and talking. Because I love him, I kept holding out.

 

But today he finally accepted it. He said several times that he loves me very much, and I said the same.

 

I suggested 6 months no contact, and he negotiated that down to 3 months. I said if either of us wants to, we can check in after that and see if we're ready to consider being friends. He lives in another city, so it's unlikely we'll be in the same city again, but we could be distant friends over e-mail and phone.

 

He said he's really going to miss having Thanksgiving dinner with me (we cooked a huge feast for all my friends last year), and asked if he could send me a non-romantic Christmas gift. I said it's a nice thought, but no, that is a form of contact, and it will be too sad for me.

 

He asked if I'll ever be open to being more than friends again, if he can "get his head straight". I said unlikely but maybe, but he has some growing up to do, needs to learn to open his heart, something.

 

At the end, we were both crying, and he said, "I want you to be happy. Take care of yourself. I love you." I said basically the same thing, and then said goodbye.

 

It was the gentlest, most caring breakup I've ever had. Very sad, but as caring and amicable as possible. I feel we handled it the best we could, and I'm pretty sure we won't carry forward a lot of emotional baggage from this because of the way we handled it.

[xxoo]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out. It sounds like it's for the best, and that it ended as well as possible.

 

Take care of yourself.

[heartshaped]

I wish you luck as you move forward. It's terribly sad- the end of relationships always are- but sounds like it was a well thought out decision and ended as well as could be expected.