My MM's wife finally found out

[Patiently waiting]

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[T-Mama]

how did she find out.......?

[Patiently waiting]

Hi everyone (or anyone),

 

Not too sure how actively this site is used but I thought is was worth trying out.

 

I am currently the OW in a relationship that has spanned nearly a year. I was married for many years but after my spouse cheated on me our relationship never recovered. Probably because he was still secretly seeing her the whole time we were (supposedly) attempting to repair our marriage. At some point during that time I just lost the "love" for my husband and honestly felt a sense of relief. No more wondering if he was lying to me, I didn't care. It was shortly after that, that other men started to take more interest in me. I guess it was that they noticed my change in attitude or something. No longer was I the hurt and forlorn wife anymore, but once again back to the perky and outgoing girl I used to be. Since I have been at my job for many years, people do remember how I was before.

 

So one day out of the blue I meet this guy at my work whom I have never met before. We have both worked at this place for over a decade but never interacted because our positions are not affiliated with each others. Well, one day our paths crossed and the attraction was instant and very strong. I knew he was married, he and his wife had just had twins only a few months prior and it was posted on our company's intranet website. But being the "new woman" that I was and so needing someone to want me, I allowed a friendship to develop. I was very reluctant at first to even go out to coffee with him as I would have never done that before because I felt it was wrong to spend time with another man alone if either of us was married. He was so nice to me though, and also extremely good looking. He made me feel like a schoolgirl and I melted just looking at him. Well, we went to lunch for a few weeks and took breaks together and realized we had a lot in common. (I know my story is common, please bare with me).

 

Well, as we all know......things progressed and got more intense. We spent more time together, went away for the weekend once etc.... Then one day, had a big fight with my spouse. I threw him out for good. I guess that being in love with my MM gave me the strength to finally take a stand. As I have read in other posts, I knew if I loved someone else that I was no longer in love with my spouse. I just stuck around for other reasons, kids, convenience, familiarity etc.....

 

So, after all the "stuff" that comes with going through a divorce, which I am still going through (divorce will be final in January 2005), I am still with my MM. He was pretty disappointed when I ended my marriage a few months back, said we were not on an even playing field anymore. Well, honestly I was not aware we were playing a game to begin with. He has been honest with me pretty much as far as saying he wasn't intending to leave his wife (he has cheated before several times). But sometimes he would tell me he was looking for apts. and he would occassionally take a weekend to "find himself" (with me of course). All the while his wife not knowing about me, but allowing him to get away if he needed to. Come Sunday morning though, he would run back home. Arrgghhh, MEN!!!!

 

So, anyway......just the other day she decides to follow him......she sees him go to my house. I really wondered if she even suspected because I couldn't imagine how she wouldn't have. But he is pretty clever....he does legitimately work late and voice mail retrieval from anywhere has got to be the cheaters fav. invention! Plus, he never contacts me from home on weekends, goes right home after work or at least calls her and gives her a viable excuse. She is so busy with kids, the nanny, working from home etc, that she probably didn't really even have a chance to contemplate the possibility of him cheating. Or maybe she just really didn't want to know?

 

So, now she has seen us together, but just outside on my patio. He could really get around that if he tried, being that I am a single mom I could have asked for his help somehow and being a nice guy he stopped by (he left her a note he was going out to grab some coffee down the street). Well, I do live on the way to the coffee place (conveniently......) I moved here after losing my house during the divorce.

 

She did not confront us, she waited til he got home and told him that she had made an appt. to see a mediator next week. Apparantly this was all done in a very calm manner. They have been together for a long time and have kinda drifted apart over the years, but I know she still loves him as he just recently told me she told him so. He says he does not love her, (but I know he stays for the usual man reasons). Kids, security, family pressure, and of course sheer laziness in pursuing something better for himself. Like the rest of them, he ultimately wants his cake and eat it too.

 

So why do I want him, why do I love him? God only knows...... I must be crazy! I have practically lost my job over him, I have given up my marriage (although probably would have ended it eventually anyway), and pretty much given myself more heartache and stress than any heart attack victim would have endured before needing a serious lifestyle change.

 

He says he loves me but not to expect anything at this point since they have not even seen a mediator yet. Like I said, he would have never left anyway. He wants to still live at home even if they get a divorce. He says that the financial part of him having to find his own place would be an unecessary waste of money since he figures they could still live together as friends. He says he wouldn't have moved more than a block away anyway (apts. near his home), so he could still see his kids everyday. Strange.....but somehow logical...... I guess they have just kinda worn out their marriage, neither wants to really put forth the effort to fix it. She says he is the one that needs to change, I think she's right.......She has always been the faithful wife, she has never been with anyone else (she was only a teenager in high school when they met). He is only a few years older, but apparantly got most of his experience with women after they had started a serious relationship. They got married nearly a decade after their first date and he started cheating about 7 years into the marriage. He says once he had done it, it became easier each time to deal with it in his own mind.

 

So go ahead and give it to me straight, I have heard it from my girlfriends, but they also understand that I am a woman in love and that somehow being in that state of mind discounts all the obvious "red flags". Am I crazy to continue to stick it out? Will they even go see the mediator or like before when they saw a counselor just decide that they would ignore the problems because they were too busy taking care of kids to really work on their marriage. They are supposed to go Monday.....I am betting she blows it off or just goes to shock him into shaping up. He told me that he would continue to cheat on her anyway if they stayed married so I guess unless she decides to ignore it or accept it (which I can't imagine how someone could degrade themselves like that, although I have seen it far too often), she may actually go through with it. But do I want him by default? I mean that kinda sucks, I feel like the booby prize ya' know? He even tells me that we may not wind up together even if he does become single. But then......he tells me he loves me and how I have made his life so much better. He tells me that he was so depressed during the time we were broken up. He was the one that contacted me first, then I of course wound up responding. We really tried being apart, but you know.... The attraction is so strong, we cannot stay away.

 

What should I do???? I am a total mess......

[EnigmaXOXO]

You don't need a clairvoyant to read between the lines, PW. All you need to do is shake off your fog of denial to see what's standing right in front of you.

 

This man IS NOT leaving his wife unless she gives him the boot. Even if she files for separation or divorce, he's already told you this:

 

He wants to still live at home even if they get a divorce. He says that the financial part of him having to find his own place would be an unnecessary waste of money since he figures they could still live together as friends...

 

Wake up, Wake up dear PW. You are asleep and unconscious! This man does not "love" you. At least not enough to end up with you. As a matter of fact, he's already told you as much:

 

…He even tells me that we may not wind up together even if he does become single.

 

Believe him!

[Patiently waiting]

EnigmaXOXO,

 

How do I go about leaving him? Despite our fatal attraction, we are very good friends too. Can we actually sustain a friendship without the sex? We are dynamic together, it really is amazing. I have never been with anyone so incredible. It can go on for hours.....

 

Another thing is, he says he wants to help me financially, which he actually does do. He even tells me that he does it to relieve his guilt for not being able (I always correct him and say "not wanting" to spend more time with me. I am not poor, just not as well off financially as during marriage. I did adjust to a certain standard of living during my marriage. There are things I simply just won't give up now that I have had them so long. They are part of what keeps me going.....

 

So, like I said......"I know what I am" to him (at least for now) and I do really love him (I think?, arrghh, so confused.....love or lust or just plain need). So is it wrong to let him give me financial support or should I let him do it and relieve his guilt.....Don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face so to speak.....Any input on this?

 

BTW, do you do this professionally????? You are very insightful......

[EnigmaXOXO]

Since I have never been in this particular situation myself, this kind of "help" would better come from those other ladies on the forum who have already been where you are. They're more likely to respond to your thread after the weekend. You'll find their help and support amazing since they've already gone through the painful process of surviving the fallout of an affair.

 

My knowledge is limited to "addictions," and the best I can do is provide you with link on "relationship addictions." Only you can decide whether or not the information applies to you:

 

http://love-addiction.com/loveaddict34.html

 

As for me…gotta cut out. J's just come in from the garage so LS time is over. You take care and try not to allow your worries to spoil your weekend.

[gypsycat]

My two cents...I don't think you can sustain a friendship without the sex. Maybe I'm bringing too many of my own experiences into this but I tried that path, and all that happened is as the romantic relationship ceased and the fog cleared somewhat I realized what a "(insert choice of expletive)" he was.

 

I know it's probably not what you want to hear but you deserve better. This is a guy who obviously has no problem cheating and really is somewhat spineless when he says he'll go through mediation and yet still cheat. You've got to feel sorry for his wife and realistically if he ended up with you, he's going to do the same to you in due course. Yes it's very hard to leave, yes it's extremely painful, tell me about it but have to say I surprised myself, I'm 9 months down the track now and I wonder now what on earth I was thinking. 9 months ago I thought I would never be able to get through it.

 

I have a really good friend who is a single guy, we don't have a serious relationship because neither of us want one right now but he can't work out why women go for the married guys. Have to say that after the married guy, my non serious relationship with this guy is so much more like the real thing, and it's not even close to a relationship.

[Cupcake]

I dated a married man once. He told me he just needed the time away from his wife. He assisted me financially for a while. I was lucky enough not to get too in love with him that I could not see clearly. I never expected him to leave his wife. The relationship ended when I got tired of the sloppy seconds. Him not being there when I needed him, ect. I broke it off. He cried, begged, and even stalked me after I ended it. But eventually, he moved on. That happened 3 years ago. The man is still with the same wife. He still cheats on her. Turns out that she knows he cheats. They argue all the time. But her self esteem is too low to leave him. And he doesn't want to leave her for fear that no other woman would allow him to cheat on her, and get away with it.

 

What a shame!!

 

There are a lot of men who LOOK for a women who will allow them to cheat. Most cheaters are like this. The only love they have is for themselves. In your case, the wife is a fool if she allows him to just be her roomate after the divorce. And he is a real manipulative prick for even assuming she would be okay with it. You are certainly blinded right now by your NEED to be wanted and loved. I'm no expert. But I think the most important thing for you to realize, remember, and never ever forget: THIS MAN DOES NOT LOVE YOU. HE WILL NEVER BE FAITHFUL TO YOU.

 

Maybe then you can focus on all the good he offers you without getting your heart broken. You will either leave him alone all together. Or you will settle for the facts. If you get your hopes up, you will definately get your heart broken and you will feel much worse than you did when your ex-husband cheated on you.

[I Survived]

Patiently Waiting

 

Give yourself the greatest gift you ever can. Thank the MM for giving you the strength to rid yourself of your husband whom you claim was already out the door, and end the relationship with MM. If you thought you felt free before, wait until you end what promises to be years of heartache, anxiety, and pain for everyone.

His wife knows about you and she will always be on guard. It appears that she is determined to make things work in their marriage. He doesn't love you honey, he just thinks he does. You are an escape from his reality; wife, kids, bills, chores. Is that what you want? I wish you the best of luck. Be courageous.

[Patiently waiting]

Arrggghhhh!!! I knew it!!! My MM called me earlier (he had to run over to work tonight so he was able to call without his wife knowing) and I asked him what time his mediation appt. was tomorrow (Monday). He said he didn't know. I asked how could you not know? Don't you have to make arrangements at work to take off for a while? He says "oh, we will probably go during my lunch hour I guess, I haven't been privy to the info. as of yet as to what time we are going though" So I said hmmm, sounds odd that she didn't tell you what time your appt. was for. Then he goes off on me saying oh you think everything is odd cause you are so golden. (which I think he really does mean, that I'm golden as in pure and pristine). I mean I left my marriage, I didn't want to carry on a facade. So I said well you know mediation takes more than a lunch hour. Then he says oh, it's just the 1st intro appt. to get it started. Ok, this guy has a Master's in Finance and I have seen websites where you can do this stuff on your own with a kit, so it would be easy for him to do without actually seeing someone. And if they are so matter of fact about it all it shouldn't be a big deal right? Well, I believe it boils down to the fact that it is all bull****. I think he is lying. I think he wanted to see how I would react to his wife finding out. I bet he made some excuse (like i said he could in my earlier post) and she either bought it, or chooses to buy it. Whatever!!! Now he tells me that how he wants to give me the money he had offered but is now making excuses like "oh, well, I don't know how much it will be after taxes are taken out and also I have to figure out how much I need for myself and how much i can viably get away with giving you. what a F-in a**h***. If I don't get my money, he' s done! He can go F himself or some other girl for all I care!!! I may be his whore, but I certainly will not put up with that **** for free!! I am a WHORE no more!!! F---- Him!!!!!

[I Survived]

Patiently waiting

 

YOU ARE NOT A WHORE!!!!! And thankfully, he has given you the out you need. You don't need his money, you don't need his lies and BS, and most of all you don't need HIM. Tell him to hit the highway. Take a long hot bubble bath and wash that looser out of you life. What a jerk! Do it now, be strong, don't cave, he is not good for you. Let her have him. You don't need another cheating man in your life. God Bless You. I'm rooting for you. YOU GO GIRL!!! Women are ten times stronger than men. We think with the brain we have in our heads. And you know what brain they think with.....

[Patiently waiting]

Thank you so much for your support stillhurtin, will you go with me when I ask for the copy of my house key I gave to him??? Arrrghhh, this is gonna be difficult!!! Guess I'll do it AFTER my bubble bath!!!

[I Survived]

Pw - I'll be right there beside you (in spirit). However if you can afford it, get the locks changed or add a new one that he won't have a key for. Nevertheless, if you are firm when you tell him, he won't be coming around anymore. Good luck, God bless, I'm so proud of you. SH

[Patiently waiting]

Well, I did it. I told him that it has to be platonic between us and if that cannot be done then we must go our separate ways. He did not see the mediator today, said the mediator called to reschedule. Doubt it!!! He pulled the same thing with the marriage counselor attempt. It's just getting old and I'm privy to his game.

 

So tonight I have gathered the few items he had left at my house (his security items to ensure he would be over here again). I will once again ask for my key back, I know he will give it to me. I think he knows that i am just too exhausted to play his game anymore. My final e-mail to him was congratulating him for a great article that was written about him in the newspaper today. I told him that I wished I was the one who was entitled to celebrate with him but I knew that could never be. Then he said, thank you for believing in me. I replied with "you are welcome, my work is done here, I must be moving on". That was it. No response from him. I think he just kinda knew what I was saying. I am very sad, I do love him, but I have been in love before and recovered from those relationships as well. I hope one day to be in love again, but this time with someone who loves me back (and definately is NOT married).

 

Needless to say, i am getting drunk tonight, I think I deserve it for all I've been thru!

 

Wish me luck!

[I Survived]

YEEE HAW!!!! Congratulations PW! I'm proud of you. Even though you're sad, don't you feel much better. You're free!!! Don't get too drunk - I tied a good one on last Friday night and spent the whole day Saturday sick in bed. Guess I should have stopped at 4 shots - numbers 5 & 6 put me over the edge. God bless. You're alright in my book.

[Patiently waiting]

Thank you for your support Still Hurting. I am really trying to feel much better but the sadness kinda takes over. I can't stop crying. My big problem is that I don't like being free. I really loved sorta belonging to someone. I guess I have some of my own self-esteem issues to work through above and beyond the whole OW issue. I think I need to find myself a good self help book. At least that will keep me occupied during my breaks at work (we used to take all our breaks and lunches together). I just gotta keep my mind occupied, oh and not eat or drink myself into oblivion. I have a tendency to do that when i am depressed. I do have two little ones (ages 3 & 4), plus I work full time, so at least I am physically busy. That can be challenging all in itself. Sometimes I wanna just run and hide (which occassionally I do actually lock myself in my room and cry). My kids are so crazy sometimes, I know it's been rough on them with the divorce and all. We have moved from our brand new house to a 2 bedroom apt. and our neighbors are less than pleased that there are 2 little children stomping above their heads. I have already gotten a lease violation notice. I don't know what I will do if we wind up getting evicted. I cannot afford to move, I would literally wind up living in my car since I have no family whatsoever and my credit is totally shot from the divorce. It's really hard to get an apt. with bad credit. I used to have excellent credit, divorce just sucks all around. But I had to leave my ex, he continued to cheat on me (I was no better toward the end, but still did not get satisfaction from it), and he was becoming more abusive mentally and physically. He also just completely let himself go, he had lost all lust for life since he could not be with his OW on a regular basis. He was misrable to live with and I was misrable living with him. Well, enough rambling........I've got bigger fish to fry! I'm a man-a-holic, gotta do the 12 step program I think.....One day at a time.....Hopefully by the end of tomorrow I'll be 1 day MM sober!

[Patiently waiting]

Ok, so I just watched "how to lose a guy in 10 days" Normally a cute movie, under the circumstances, absolute torture! Now I am drinking the only alcohol I have left, a bottle of merlot. Wish I had some tequila.....Also smoking cloves more than ever, I've nearly gone thru a whole pack today.

Does this MM know what he is doing to me or worse yet, what I am doing to myself over him? Probably....I have spilled my heart out to him before....Does he care, NO! Oh, great, the movie that just came on just showed someone getting killed and a little child crying.....Does it get any F-ing worse??? Now I know why I NEVER watch television!!! Life F-ing sucks!!!!!!!!! I swear to god...this whole thing better make me stronger, cause it's killing me..........

I'm a F-ing mess.....I wish I could just stay in bed forever and hide. I just pray I can make it through work tomorrow. I'm falling apart in front of my own eyes.....

[I Survived]

Okay PW - take some deep breaths. You'll be okay. There is a book entitled "Women who love too much" get that one for starts. PW you have so much to be thankful for and you're focusing on what you don't have. Children can be a pain sometimes but they can also give us so much joy (and keep us tremendously busy). They are something good to focus on. You HAVE a job. There are a lot of people unemployed right now. Televison - yikes - what a bunch of crap. I usually end up watching the travel channel or discovery. All these so called "reality" shows. You and I could tell them a story about reality, huh? I know that it's difficult. I could be absolutely fine and then something happens and it makes me remember the pain. It does pass with time, I promise. Do you like to write?? One of the things that helps my ANYTIME I am in conflict is to write. Write letters to people and spill your guts. You don't have to send it, just get it out of your head then rip it up, burn it. One time, I started writing my story. I mean from my earliest memory and the things I remembered from the past. It was very cathartic. It also helped me understand who I am and why I do some of the things I do. Once you can recognize yourself, you can take control. Sometimes I even find myself laughing "at" myself because I'll react to an episode in a certain way and realize that it's the old me, the unaware me that is reacting. Think the Merlot had something to do with your crying jag, honey. Take little sips. Besides it will make it last longer. Have some cheese and crackers. You will be fine, I promise. How come no family?

 

By the way - crying in this situation is very very cleansing. Have a good one, you deserve it. We have to take care of the little person in us all. We all have past experiences that were hurtful. Give little pw the love that she needs.

I'm here for you too.

[Patiently waiting]

ok, today we e-mailed and we have come to the conclusion that he is a complete coward. He cannot make any decisions for himself in any aspect of his life. He just waits to see what happens and deals with whatever comes about. I am so the opposite. I make things happen, I pursue what I want. I'm really doubtful that his wife actually knows about us now. No mention of the mediation appt. today. I told him that I don't want to be involved with any aspect of his marriage, that he and his wife need to choose what they want or don't want. That I can only be a friend as I want him to have a clear head. I know he is hurt that I don't want to participate in this affair any longer. He sends me e-mails like "what it means to be an adult". an example he underlined was not to use the "all or nothing" line, something about no one is perfect blah, blah, blah.......

Anyway, now he is bieng very formal with me. It's so ridiculous I have to laugh at him.

 

But I must stand my ground. I do believe we can be friends if he can learn to deal with the idea that WE CAN BE FRIENDS! Of course I still want him and love him, but I am not blind. I see what the future does not hold for us. I hurt really bad, yes I want to cry but in time my tears will dry and my heart will mend. My life will go on. Just for a while it won't be so wonderful..........

 

1 day MM sober.

 

Thank you all for being here for me, you truly are my "higher power"!

[Patiently waiting]

I must say.....he is making it much easier for me. He is now rejecting me. He makes little jokes about everything I say when I am talking seriously.

 

Anyone know any single men around 40 with a good job somewhere in Ventura County?

 

Oh, no....he just called me.......he's coming over. Hopefully just to give me my key back.

 

Pray for me.......

[Patiently waiting]

He just left, we talked....about work, how we were together, gazed at me with that sinful look.....but nothing happened. I think neither of us wanted to be responsible for the reprocussions if something did happen He did give me a modest kiss good-bye and a hug and then he left.

 

So now I'm all outta my head with lust, but I did get through the "no sex" part. Am I on my way to recovery, or am I fooling myself? I don't think I would have resisted him if he tried......

 

Damn that Adam and Eve, it's all their fault!!!!!

 

But I remain 1 day MM sober (at least in flesh)

 

On to day 2 .............

[I Survived]

You are making great strides. Of course, you're going to have feelings. No one is denying that. You have invested a big part of yourself into that relationship. Your writings tell me more about him as the "Player" he is. He really has a lots of issues and that is something you don't need to take on for yourself. You have little kids that need you. That BIG KID is going to have to find his own way. He is going to try several different techiques to try and get you back into his world. He's really acting like such a child PW and that is what tugs at you. Do you want to mother him? You need a man who will give you what you need as an adult. Until you find that person, you are going to have to relieve yourself of that "urge" if you know what I mean.

I think you're doing great. But don't fool yourself...he's no friend. You are always going to have to be on guard and at some point you're going to tell him that you want nothing to do with him. He's poison. Did you get your key?

Remember - baby steps - one at a time. Keep me in the loop please - I care. SH

[Patiently waiting]

Well, today we had lunch, that's it. I do not call him to take breaks together anymore, if he wants to take me to lunch he has to call me. I make other plans otherwise. He said to me today "why can't we go back to the way it was?" I'm like "because our relationship is not real and I am tired of being the OW" "You need to face your marriage issues with a clear head" I told him I would be his friend, but that's all. We got on the topic of me needing to change my work schedule due to childcare needs and I mentioned that I would be able to at least now take an hour lunch (currently taking 45 minutes). I said, what I really need is an hour and half lunch. Then he blurted out "If you took an hour and a half he would never eat, he would F--K" I told him you need a partner for that and it isn't gonna be me!

 

My key.....he asked if I wanted it back, I said yes. He said take it off my key ring then. I told him he should do it cause I didn't want to break my nail (key rings are killers on a manicure!). Anyway, he starts taking it off and then says do you really want it? Then he says "I'm just gonna hang on to it for a while". I'm like "whatever..."

Not that he's ever gonna come over here anyway and just waltz right in. He's too paranoid his wife will follow him! I mean he only lives a block away, literally!

 

So, that's how it is now. I still want him, but hate him at the same time. I love the outer candy shell, but don't like what's inside. This is one M ( & ) M I won't be letting melt in my mouth!!!!

 

2 days MM sober!

 

Any single guys out there????

[izzybelle]

congrats on staying sober.

 

really like the M & M analogy

[I Survived]

Cute analogy PW but I really think you need to get your key back. It's not about him being able to use it, it's about him knowing that you're really serious about it being over. I don't know how you can have lunch with him. Is it just the two of you? I asked my husband to use the following rule when he considers something. Is it something you would do or say in front of me? He is much more respectful of our relationship now as I am.

Don't go out there looking for a guy right now either. It would be rebound. Take your time. Pay attention to you and what you really need. I care. Keep up the good work.

Would that me M&Ms with NUTS? HAHA