WS, OW, now D Lessons Learned

[road]

I remember two weeks after DDay, when he was out of the house and sending giant bouquets of flowers, I wrote an email which read:

 

'Love and counseling may not be enough. I fear it may be too little, too late, and as you are not a patient man, I am not optimistic about us.'

 

And it was I, not him, who walked out of counseling twice when he wanted to divert talking of the affair to anger at me and our perceived issues.

 

of course we had issues, but I did not cheat. So yes, I wanted him to fix himself and all the insecurities and skewed views of how neglected and unappreciated he was before I would address the marriage.

 

Tall order for any WS, yet what many fail to realize is that I, too, felt neglected and unappreciated with not enough attention and yet....I did not cheat.

 

BS's want every emotional reassurance a WS can give that they understand WHY they did what they did to devastate us before we can ever fathom fixing a marriage we are readying ourselves to walk away from.

 

Why would we attemp to fix a marriage when the WS has lobbed a grenade into it?

 

Explain to us why the grenade was lobbed and how it WILL NEVER happen again and then maybe we will be ready to examine issues the marriage may have had.

 

Not saying it's right or rational or fair to the WS...but after DDAY, it is how the majority of us feel.

 

 

Good insight. I hope the OP can grasp it.

[carhill]

WS, OW, now D Lessons Learned

 

If marrying, hammer out the contract in advance and with competent legal help; if things go sideways, execute the contract's exit clause without hesitation. Don't get involved in affairs, even tangentially.

[ChooseTruth]

Addressing the issue of whether to fix general M issues or the A first:

 

At first my WW said she didn't know why and that there must be something wrong with her, she'd go to MC. I spent 3 months in therapy trying to get to the "why", which eventually my Ex pointed at me. I had finally figured out what I was going to do to fix myself and had started taking action. Then I found she had been trickle truthing me in a nasty way, lying all the way through counseling, never looking at her own issues. That's when I made the ultimatum for her to quit MA class. The trickle truth destroyed everything. She wasn't willing to "start over", I think oldshirt's old car analogy applies. She wanted a new one at this point, she even told me it wasn't fair to me but she understood and just couldn't start over again. I got some advice from Steve Harley (Dr. Harley's son) and he said it was imperative that we fix the bleeding wound first before going to old marriage issues. I raised this point with my ex and she was outraged that we couldn't do both simultaneously...which imo was ridiculous because I had already spent 3 months focusing on her issues only to find out she was a liar.

 

If you talk to her now, her story would probably be similar to yours. She would say I wasn't willing to focus on issues in the marriage and only wanted to address the A. She'd say I did very little to turn things around. Truth is I had started my self improvement program...once the plan was in place but trickle truth kinda destroyed any motivation I had had in an instant.

 

If the WS is lying still, there's hardly any point working on the marriage....

 

Bad post.

 

Why?

 

You did not name this WW or BH. Without that no one can find her story and learn from it.

Sorry, I couldn't remember the username but I hoped my point would be taken anyway. He was the pilot guy who used to be pretty active here. BetrayedH/Kidd might remember. Oh and it wasn't a single thread...he had multiples.

[BetrayedH]

Thank you for your post--our stories seem similar on many fronts and I truly appreciate your insights. If my xH had been able to let go of the "grand gesture" maybe that would've helped, but I too had somewhat checked out of the M a couple of years earlier. However, big difference, he knew and in fact was sleeping in a different bedroom and then had moved out. (But my A started when he was still in the house ) What I wrestled with during R, was how to address the whole M, not just the A. I completely understood that for him, this was so paramount that little else mattered, but for me, I needed him to understand the reasons why I did what I did. This is where we got stuck..he saw reasons as excuses and I separated the two. To me, we couldn't R until we looked as those reasons (some of which were definitely my shortcomings and some of which were his). A spouse who has been faithful for 20+ yrs. doesn't just wake up one day and decide to have an A---at least not in my case. Again, not his fault that I did it--it was my choice, my mistake, and I thought it was important to look at that. But, he was a very linear thinker and only wanted to talk about the A.

I certainly never pictured being D at this point in my life--it has cost me tremendously both emotionally and financially--I was a stay at home mom for many years, after having left a very high paying job--and now I struggle a bit.

Maybe it wasn't a gift to him, but he just kept saying that I wasn't giving him what he needed and I didn't know what else to do....

 

I'm thinking I remember our previous conversations now. Your previous username is on the tip of my tongue. I want to say it starts with an R. Oh well, it doesn't really matter.

 

As a BS, I did my best to multi-task and to address marital issues simultaneously with the affair. Looking back, it was too soon to discuss marital issues. Frankly, the lack of significant marital issues is what tipped me off to my wife's affair. She said she wanted to separate and it took me three weeks to conclude that there was most certainly something going on well beyond marital problems. For that reason, I have a VERY hard time seeing marital issues as a 'reason' to have an affair. I'm sorry but those just come off as excuses.

 

I also agree with the others that believe the affair trumps the marital issues in the immediate months after Dday. But instead of comparing it to a grenade, I'd say it was a nuke. The affair wrought absolute devastation to me, us, and our marriage when a serious (albeit difficult and courageous) conversation might have been enough impetus to get us on the path to solve marital problems.

 

All that said, I recognize that all marriages are different. And I believe there are other marital dealbreakers beyond infidelity. The reality of your own situation is really best known by you and your H.

[Betterthanthis13]

Hmmmm, good question. During the 6 months we tried to reconcile, he kept telling me that I needed to "do something" or as you put it, "repair the damage" but how? I didn't know what to do and when I would ask him, he would always say that I just needed to do SOMETHING! And for the life of me I didn't know what to do. I tried little things, like making a CD of songs that expressed my feelings, I spent hours listening to and accepting his rage. I tried to answer his questions truthfully, I never pressured him to "get over it". After 6 months, I felt completely pulvarized and just couldn't take it anymore, neither could he, so one night we both just said that's it. I couldn't give him whatever it was he needed and honestly, I couldn't take his rage without some glimmer of love, so we divorced and during those months, I guess I did see it as what he deserved.

Maybe he sees it differently? I don't know..sad to think about.

In your situation, what could your wife have done to repair the damage?

 

I'd like to answer this question. I've been thinking about this one.

 

Rewind my life to post Dday #1:

I thought Xbf had cheated on me with one woman. I was a wreck for awhile, then I decided to move out and break up with him. I coulnt deal with it.

 

He was insistant on his remorse and we and got back together. At that point I was trying to look at it like a new relationship and let the past go. We were what seemed like very happy for about a year, but I definitely had my moments where I wanted him to "do something" to "repair the damage". Ok, a lot of moments. Anyway...

He did a lot to prove to me that this is what he wanted. A LOT. I can be difficult. He jumped through many hoops. He has done pretty much everything I've seen mentioned on LS that a remorseful WS is supposed to do. He also hasn't cheated on me in well over a year. Yet I didn't feel better. I never felt safe. It was subconsciously driving me bananas. I had no idea why I couldn't seem to even start to get over it.

 

Now lets get to the glaringly obvious thing he did not do in our supposed R this past year. He left out ALL the details of the actual cheating he was doing. I didn't get those until I snapped one day in June and wrestled the truth out of him. Then I came here and started dumping on you guys.

 

In conclusion, what could he have done to repair the damage after Dday #1?

1. Gotten REAL with the TRUTH. No cover up scam

2. Recognize that he had serious issues. Admit it. Immediately seek massive amounts of help. Genuinely want to face and conquer any mental demons, intimacy issues, etc etc and make it his life mission to do so, no matter how painful. Top priority.

3. Involve me, and make it a team effort.

 

Assuming he did ALL that. And I was crazy enough to want to R with him. We still wouldn't have been ok unless I also made some changes. I would have had to:

1. Get my head out of my azz. Stop lying to myself

2. Recognize that I have a serious problem not only because I am dealing with his issues now- but because I somehow convinced myself I was in love with someone who was that screwed up. Therefore- I am screwed up. Admit it and seek help until I find answers.

3. Involve him and make it a team effort

4. Work on forgiving and letting go

 

He failed on all counts. I failed on items 1-3. It is not enough. Surface level recon doesn't work. Pretending things are ok when they aren't is dangerous for your health, and doom for an intimate relationship

 

I like to think I would have figured this stuff out much earlier, if I hadn't been lied to and scammed for a whole year. Any of that stuff happening was completely dependent on him getting through #1- the TRUTH. Didn't happen. Wasted a year of my life instead with false reality and wishy washy bull.

[BetrayedH]

Sorry, NH. Vaguely remember the pilot but not much else. Great point about being proactive, though. I think a wayward taking proactive steps to show transparency and to anticipate/deal with triggers is absolutely key in showing remorse. It makes it a team effort. On a few occasions during our reconciliation my wife took photos of where she was (lunches, work events, etc) - I even still have some of them on my phone. She tried to anticipate when I might be triggery and did what she could to preempt it. The photos even had a time/date stamp so I could verify that they were current. I think this mirrors what you referenced about a WW that GPSd herself. Great step and a good example of what I think a lot of betrayeds are looking for.

[CantgetoveritNY]

I'm not on here a lot anymore b/c it is painful. But your story is so mirror image of mine I had to comment. I have not read any posts on this thread other than your own first post, so forgive me if I am not responsive to what others have said about it.

 

Yup, I have been a WS and an OW and ...............I would like to try and provide insight into the insanity of an affair, from the WS perspective

 

Thank you for trying. Here, there, anywhere you try we BS thank you. I love to see posts by WS. I know it is hard for you and I appreciate that you tell us BS what you are thinking. Even when it hurts.

 

 

I had been married for 20+ years and then began a 2 yr. affair with a colleague. I wrote about it (under another name) on the OW/OM forum with all of the usual nauseating verbage about how he made me feel alive, appreciated etc.

 

So typical, yes. But thank you for telling us BS that you see it as nauseating now. Maybe share your old LS name so we can see how much of a change can happen with a WS over time. I want to believe my own WS has changed despite the things I saw her write in the first weeks and months post Dday.

 

H found out and we made a brief attempt at R but then divorced one year later. The pain I caused him was devastating. He was broken; I was broken and it was my fault.

 

My WW and I are a little more than one year past Dday. I filed for divorce soon after Dday. Not b/c I wanted to be apart from WW. But b/c WW was ambivalent about reconciliation. Right up until the D was finalized WW said she was not sure if she wanted me long term or not. Now she says she wants me forever but there are still problems. Things she says I have to change or she can't stay long term.

 

What I really respect about WW is that she is still with me. As if we were married. And she does not have the legal status of wife. She gives me full access to all passwords. She hides nothing. She is 100% NC. There is no doubt in my mind she learned that if she leaves me an affair is not the way to do that. She does not lie to me and say we are going to be together forever not matter what. But she makes me feel secure that this relationship will not end with an affair.

 

Most of all, by giving me the divorce and not leaving, she showed me it was not for money that she is staying. She has her settlement. If she leaves she knows what she gets and it is pretty good I have to say. I was generous in the divorce.

 

She really proved something to me by staying after it was finalized. So you were not wrong to try to prove something by giving a D to your H yourself. It may not have worked out for you but your intention was good. I applaud that.

 

What I learned was that I had been a true coward. My H and I had serious problems in our M, of course, and I had been a 100% faithful wife for 20+ yrs. but problems in no way excuse an affair.

 

Thank you for this!

 

In my case, the problems in my M were why I started looking, but looking and acting are two completely different things!

 

Thank you again. In my case, after WW had been cheating for more than a year, I did not know, WW told me to go ahead and have sex once more with my high school GF. I really thought I would. I made plans. I did not. I feel like a total piece of crap for even making those plans but I thank the gods that I did not do it. Looking and acting are 100% different, unfortunately. For you and my WW. And me. If WW had just looked my life would be so much different right now.

 

We had gone to M counseling but instead of having the "guts" to D my H, I cheated.

 

We did MC too. Before the A. She always left saying it was not worth it.

 

And the pain that resulted to him and to our children bc of my A was excruciating.

 

Yes, I am in excruciating pain. Our children are grade school age and in denial about what happened. But they know what happened. She even introduced them to the AP. When they are older I'm sure they will suffer bc of this no matter what we do to mitigate that.

 

The only "gift" I could give my H was as calm a D as possible and to take full responsibility for my actions.

 

As I said, I commend you for this. It is what I wanted and my WW gave it to me. It is a big reason why I am still trying to reconcile. Your heart was in the right place.

 

The D ended up being all about my A and none of the issues that had caused our problems in the first place. While at times I felt that was frustrating (especially bc friends and family only knew about the A and not the other stuff), I knew this was the price I had to pay.

 

You really do get this. You really are a good, changed, person. Anyone that can say they suffered consequences but accepts them is a person that learned from her mistakes.

 

Please don't misunderstand, I am not looking for sympathy here, nor am I a martyr--I'm just offering, perhaps, insight and a different perspective. I will repeat over and over, there was no excuse for what I did.

 

Again, I can not thank you enough for your post. Mission accomplished. It gives me hope my WW is genuine when she says these thing to me. You, a WS who did not get to reconcile still post and say these things means so much to me.

 

 

I guess I just wanted to say to anyone who is going through this horrendous experience, I was a WS and I am a human being who made an inexcusable, selfish choice and I have learned from this experience. I know I never set out to hurt anyone--almost laughable as I write this--but I most certainly did. I wish my xH could've seen what a broken woman I was but now I'm on the mend and I hope others think long and hard about their actions before it's too late.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Zenstudent]

Sorry, NH. Vaguely remember the pilot but not much else.

The pilot might have been SomedayDig, it wasn't 10 years, but 5.

[Zenstudent]

CNY; I think it's great that you return with your thoughts and findings - we can all learn from it - hopefully you can as well.

 

2 comments from me.

 

One thought about the "You should DO something-stuff" - yes I would like my wife to DO something as well. She's pretty good at rug sweeping, doesn't like to talk about feelings and emotional stuff. One thing I really would like from her, is to know/see/feel that she actually reflect on her actions and choices to prevent cheating again. I would just hate to waste anymore of my precious time in life with a person who's just waiting to stabb me in the back. So read, think, investigate, talk - that would do a lot for me, to know that shee cares enought to ensure it doesn't happen again the next time she's bored.

 

Another note. You say several times that nothing excuses infidelity, and that the choice is all on you, that's great, but.... yes, you use the word "but" a lot, which to me means, that you deep down discard the original statement, and replaces it with.... an excuse for yourself.

 

Also, as pointed out by another poster; you demand that your husband should adress pre-affair issues at the same time he processes and copes with your cheating - one of the biggest blows to a persons self esteem and self worth. That, to me, says - that you maybe unconsciously connect marital issues with your choice to cheat. Justifying. Allthough you know it's "officially" wrong to do so.

 

I look forward to read your thoughts about this.

[harrybrown]

When you compare your relationship with the OM and your husband, did you do things with your OM that you would not do with your husband? When you were with the OM, did you ever think about your husband? If your husband had the affair, how would you feel? What would you want him to do to help you? After the affair, did you try to make him feel wanted like he was not second best in the sack to the affair partner?