Only child moved out before wedding but parents causing problems!?

[ehehef]

Those of you who have read my posts before will probably ocngratulate me for finally moving out of my parents' place and now living with my fiancee before our wedding this coming spring...

 

It's an exciting but difficult enough adjustment -- new responsibilities, new space, new compromises, etc. but my parents (and overbearing father especially) are making our life MISERABLE and taking all the joy out of planning our wedding!

 

It seems that every week we have an "incident" where my parents either complain about me not wanting to see them, or about us not including them in our plans, or about my fiancee not behaving "like a proper daughter-in-law" (i.e.: showing she is becoming part of a larger family and wanting to get to know them better) or accusing me of turning my back and "abandoning my family" and being far too influenced by my fiancee! It's exhausting us, seriously affecting our relationship and we have come close to calling everything off because of it.

 

My fiancee thinks we have to "wean" them from expecting and demanding things like weekly contact (sometimes we just WON'T be available, so what?), and I agree. But unlike me she also thinks we can't "hang out" with parents and that mine just stick their noses into our lives too much. But what about making the transition "easier" for the old folks?

 

I have been VERY close with my parents as an only child... they always knew my plans, always gave advice and always influenced my decisions in some way. They're just not used to hearing "no" from me, and they have their own problems which means they have been using me as an emotional crutch all my life...

 

So what do we all need? Therapy (doing that)? Time and patience for everyone to find their balance? A good slap in the head? Christmas holidays are coming up and I just cannot stomach the thought of all of us NOT spending some time together as a "new" happy extended family...

 

Any advice??

[bluechocolate]

Therapy (doing that)

 

It sounds likes you parents are the ones who should be in therapy. What does your therapist tell you about handling them?

 

or accusing me of turning my back and "abandoning my family" and being far too influenced by my fiancee! It's exhausting us, seriously affecting our relationship and we have come close to calling everything off because of it.

 

As parents they should know that your new family is more important to you now.

 

Christmas holidays are coming up and I just cannot stomach the thought of all of us NOT spending some time together as a "new" happy extended family...

 

Christmas is one of those time when families should get together - it's very important to many people. However, I imagine your fiance has a family too(?) & it just may be that some years you won't be able to see your parents at Christmas.

 

They're just not used to hearing "no" from me, and they have their own problems which means they have been using me as an emotional crutch all my life...

 

I know this is easier said than done, but you cannot allow you parents to control your life anymore. They are bringing their emotional problems into your new marriage (& you're not even married yet!). It sounds like, rather than dealing with their own problems they're projecting them onto you. Things could very well get worse before they get better. I hope your therapist has some good ideas on how to handle them.

[ehehef]

Wow, that was quick!

 

Well the therapist suggests being patient and making sure I communicate to my parents (we're talking about my father, really, my mother is more OK with all this) how I FEEL and give them a chance to express how THEY feel. But other than that, it's a slow process and I think it's wise for everyone to calm down before we start dealing with the issues, meaning:

 

1. my relationship with my parents (father), especially now that I've moved out

2. my fiancee's relationship with my parents

3. how involved my parents are in the joy of our wedding planning

 

But I need more advice! I just want everyone to be calm and get along, even on just a polite level! Right now nobody wants to see each other (fiancee and parents) and I feel stuck in the middle! Frustrated and upset and disappointed that things have come so far...

[bluechocolate]

Wow, that was quick!

 

I type fast!

 

I just want everyone to be calm and get along, even on just a polite level!

 

What a mature attitude! One would think parents could see things the same way.

 

Not too long ago I had an ugly confrontation with my mother while we were on vacation together. She had definitely gone into "mother-mode" & suddenly I was a 10 year old child to her. The next day, first thing in the morning, I sat down with her & said, "I refuse to shout & I refuse to get angry and I refuse to listen to you if you do the same. We have to talk about this calmly & you have to treat me with the same respect as you would another adult & I promise to do the same with you. Otherwise the only solution is that we no longer spend time together like this." She wasn't happy about it but our relatinoship did eventually change for the better. She will always be my mother, but now she is more of a friend than a mother - if you know what I mean. In my family it was my father who seemed to get this first.

 

Sometimes it can be really difficult to have an adult relationship with your parents. They've had years of being in control over your life & old habits can die hard. It is rather difficult to advise on a situation like this. It depends very much on the personalities involved, your histories together & your father's willingness to want to work things out in a way that doesn't involve him only getting what he wants. Of course he is still important to you & you to him, but he really needs to understand that he has to step back & allow you & your fiance to live your own lives. Ask your therapist to recommend a book for parents about this very thing - there are some good ones out there. Read it & then give it your mother - maybe she can intercede on your behalf & get him to read it.

[bluechocolate]

I've just gone & read your other posts - I think you've received plenty of good advice here, I hope you find what you're looking for.

[ehehef]

Thanks bluechocolate, your example with your mother helped...

 

What bugs me is that I should probably "shake up" my parents a bit to get them to see what they are doing to me (this is what most people suggest) but that is so HARD that is for me to do! We're talking about simply restraining myself from talking to them once or twice a day as I have been doing, and if they complain about that to say, "Well, YOU are doing this to us, I've shown nothing but the best intentions to both of you"... basically lay low for a few days and see how they react.

 

I had a surprisingly calm chat with my father over lunch yesterday (probably one of the few times we actually TALKED and didn't yell or get emotional) and he showed me that he just won't budge. His "bottom line" seems to be that it's ALL ABOUT THE TRANSITION... meaning that I "threw away the chapter in our lives" where they could get to know my fiancee better, spend time with us, share the joy of us planning to be married, etc. By moving out, apparently, this is what I did, and he cannot forget it and he is determined to have nothing to do with us anymore (though some small actions of his show otherwise).

 

I consider it a very real possibility that my father may not come to visit me in my new house, may not show up at the wedding, and may not want to even visit us once we're married. I really don't know if I have the will or strength to handle something like that. My fiancee is prepared to, consider how "victimized" she feels by my parents, and they are strangers to her anyway. But I don't know if I am.

[ehehef]

A small update on the situation:

 

Just had a "chat" with my father today. I have to seriously accept the very real possibility that as a result of my actions (moving out) he may not only not be at his only child's wedding, but out of our lives altogether.

 

"I cannot condone something that is KILLING me" he said, and it IS affecting his health... which I know will only get worse if things are not patched up. If I lose my father, am I ready to accept feeling that I was partly to blame?

 

He only sees "ONE solution" to the problem... me moving back home with them 6 months before my wedding, in order to work on patching things up between him and I, and between my fiancee and him. I just can't see this happening. But he sees absolutely no other options, he is adamant about that.

 

He claims "this is not a textbook case" and that even the experts cannot understand how he is feeling. No, he does not believe in seeing a "shrink" himself... and the ones I do see are probably causing me more harm than good, he thinks.

 

He feels I left my house when things were so bad, that I threw away the "one and only opportunity" to fix things. Now my fiancee "has the upper hand" and since she and I have what we wanted (me moving in), there is less motivation now to fix things with my father.

 

SHE is definitely intent on "deleting" him and not discussing the matter further, because that way he gets between us and causes us grief and stress. She says she cannot help me because I am asking "to pardon the murderer, which I just cannot do", and of course if I ask her to do that, then I'm not considering her and don't love her...

 

And here *I* am, stuck in the middle and going crazy.

 

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE there is no "middle way". I refuse to believe that my effort and good intents to patch things up with my father "after the fact" are not enough, as he says. He says "you don't shoot someone and then try to patch things up! I will NOT give you the gun."

 

Is this emotional blackmail? Or should I really try to understand him? it seems each time I speak with him about this, I end up getting frustrated and upset to the point of tears.

[magda]

Good God.

You need to get some balls and don't let your father speak to you that way. You cannot let them turn your fiance into the bad guy here - it is not fair to her and to your future family. You can tell your dad that's he's full of it. It is not your fault that your father's inability to handle his life as a grown man is affecting his health and he needs to mess up his son's life in order to.. patch things up. Your father is full of it and you need to think about your future wife and future family. Don't let your father feed you a load of bull. That is definately without questino "emotional blackmail" and don't put up with it! Maybe your father will suffer some, but maybe it will also be a rude awakening that you are you own man and out from under his control. Tell him that if he stays home from the wedding he is going to embarrass himself in front of your 'new family' and that if he's going to be such a controlling bastard you don't want him around in your life anyway! Tell him his relationship with his only son is in HIS hands and on YOUR terms. Be strong - I can only imagine how ground into you all this manipulation is, but you have to just be strong!

 

But then, I don't know the entire situation, and if your fiance loves YOU she will make an effort to get to know your family as much as possible. But you can't really blame her for not wanting to at this point, after all the speeches your parents give. But good lord, usually people hang out together because they WANT to - you should not feel obligated and told you're killing your father.

[Debster]

I have given you advice on this before and, I'm sorry to say it but the gloves have now come off. I think what you need is a cold jolt of reality.

 

1) You have failed time and time again to stick up for your fiance and tell your father to back off.

2) You have continued to allow this situation with your parents to fester and it has now blown up in your face.

3) You continue to allow your father to manipulate and control you.

4) You show no comprehension of the fact that your father is in the wrong and you make excuses for it.

 

If you don't do something about it NOW, In my opinion, you will lose your fiance. Be a man. Stand up for yourself and your fiance. Tell your father in no uncertain terms that he has to either accept your future wife and apologize for his childish, selfish behavour OR realize that he will lose you. No if and or butts about it.

 

If you don't, then IMO you're just delaying the inevitable. Your fiance will finally have had enough and will go out and get herself a real man who knows how to cut the cords and put their relationship first. I'm actually surprised she is still hanging on. She must really love you.

[ehehef]

Thanks to you all for the advice... and especially to Debster for "taking the gloves off" (nice to hear from you again!)...

 

After many sessions with an expert to get "professional" advice, I'm starting to realize how important it is to just say STOP -- to my mother whenever she wants to complain about my father or relate something he has done/said, to my fiancee whenever she is upset and the subject comes up, and above all to my father in order to show him I won't take this anymore (I just started writing "to show him I can't deal with this anymore" but I deleted it... hmmmm...).

 

Realize it's VERY hard to do when I have been used to talking things over all my life... with family, friends, etc. I can talk a subject to death, overanalyze it and think about it until I get a headache. I'm only just NOW realizing that that is not always the best approach.

 

As my therapist said, "I get the impression that you're not protecting yourself", and she's probably right. By deliberately starting conversations with my father (and let's face it, I have been doing it lately, not him), I'm just asking for trouble, heartbreak, anxiety and stress. Who knows what it does to him. It's shocking to think that yesterday I was in a cafe having lunch with him, and pretty much in tears, BEGGING him to be at his son's wedding. I was so frustrated that I could not understand why HE would create a situation where he is blocking HIMSELF from doing what he really wants to do (be at the wedding, be on good terms with me, etc.) that I just couldn't take it.

 

So I will now apply the STOP approach. It's easy if you think that nobody really wants to talk about this anymore. If my father starts accusing me of ignoring the issue and not doing anything and "the gap widening between us with each passing day" (as he said), THEN I'll have to put my foot down a bit stronger, I guess.

 

After 30 years of being close to my father, loving my father, respecting his opinions, guidance and admiring him for his GOOD qualities, it's VERY hard for me to admit he is 100% wrong. I just refuse to be so absolute. I refuse to think in black and white, because I know I am that type of person. If I take it for certain that he is wrong, EVERYTHING is up in the air and I may lose him completely. At least that's the gut feeling, and I hope it changes soon!

[Devildog]

I am going to have to agree with everyone else here. Your father seems like a controlling, stubborn and emotionally manipulative person. I dealt with a similar situation with my father. We were very close when I first started dating my wife. And as time passed he began to resent that I was spending time with my wife and that we didn't get as much time together. I wasn't going to put my family before my wife and I spent 2 years not really talking to my father at all. We talk somewhat now, but there is still a strain on our relationship because he doesn't want to get over feeling my wife stole his friend from him.

 

If you are going to make your marriage work, and indeed make it to your wedding day, you need to realize that your fiancee is now your top priority and if your father can't accept that, that is his problem.

[Debster]

After 30 years of being close to my father, loving my father, respecting his opinions, guidance and admiring him for his GOOD qualities, it's VERY hard for me to admit he is 100% wrong. I just refuse to be so absolute. I refuse to think in black and white, because I know I am that type of person. If I take it for certain that he is wrong, EVERYTHING is up in the air and I may lose him completely. At least that's the gut feeling, and I hope it changes soon!

 

yikes, excuses, excuses, excuses.

Be a man. Who gives a crap where he is 100% wrong. The fact of the matter is - he is wrong and he started the big kaffufle. So fix it, or hand your balls over to your father to yank whenever he feels like it.

[ehehef]

I'm getting tired of hearing that "be a man" stuff... which of course means that everyone else sees something I don't! Or at least something I don't want to admit yet... :-)

 

_I_ "give a crap where he is 100%" wrong so I can HANDLE him better. So I know when to pay attention to his advice, ideas and feelings, and when to just think, "Dad, I love you, but you're full of it, so I'm gonna let this go in one ear and out the other"...!

 

But as I said, I now refuse to talk to him about this anymore, so I may never be able to understand him.

 

It's just sad that things have come to this when I least expected it. I used to talk to my father every day, and he used to call me and tell me his news. Now _I_ have to take the initiative and in it's like talking to someone who has just been to a funeral or something... miserable, miserable, miserable. I should just IGNORE him for a few days, see what happens.

[ehehef]

More thoughts from little ol' miserable me :-)

 

 

It seems these days my father doesn't call me, doesn't show interest in talking to me, and according to my mother, is moping around the house in a depressed mood. Seems like he's waiting for ME to make a move --- to give in to his wishes and head back home. Which I refuse to do. But in the meantime, WHAT CAN I DO to salvage some shred of good relations between us? To show him that we can get along and be on good terms without agreeing about this issue?

 

I strongly worry his stubborness, psychology and whatever other reasons he has will force him to distance himself from me and my fiancee. It's as if he's shooting himself in the foot and then blaming me for giving him the gun!

 

Just yesterday I went home to visit them and he was miserable... I was stronger, remaining cheerful and talking with my mother. Only in the last few minutes before dropping me off at my fiancee's house did he say "each day that passes just makes things worse" to which I said "I'm sorry if you're expecting something from me, because I don't see that I have to DO anything. Please think about what you are asking your son to do!" (meaning about him wanting me to move back home, the ONLY solution according to him)... and he said "Well don't expect anything from me either"....

 

So we're at a gridlock, and it's VERY FRUSTRATING. To make things worse, my fiancee feels she is not wanted by him and so doesn't want to come with me when I visit my parents.

 

I just don't know what I can DO (IF there is anything I can do) to mend things... and have my own father be at my wedding in May!

 

There are moments when I feel that if I hadn't met my fiancee... that it was some other woman, that maybe all this wouldn't have happened. Then I think of the advice of relatives and friends -- that NO woman would be able to stand my father's grumpy, overbearing, over-attached nature. And even if I have doubts about that... at least it's time I show him that I can be something other than a carbon copy of him.

 

What drives me crazy is that I see people who have met him only on a social level and think that he's the best... outgoing, friendly, funny, etc, and always ask me to pass on greetings to him. It kind of makes me wonder... are they right in some small way? Or they just don't know the "real" him?

 

And the biggest WHAT IF: What If what he says is true, and nobody (not even the specialists) understand what is going on in his head... that he raised me to not "betray my family" and hurt him so much by leaving "when he needed me the most"...

 

It hurts to hear your own father say "maybe you and I shouldn't see each other anymore... it's good you're seeing your mother but for us it doesn't do any good...". Brings me to tears.

[Devildog]

I tend to agree that it isn't your fiancee. Any woman that took you away would be a problem for him.

 

Which will you regret more, not having your father at your wedding, or not ever having your own life and own family? That is the decision you will have to make. Is continuing to live under your father's thumb until one of you dies more important to you than your fiancee, and your own happiness?

[ehehef]

Which will you regret more, not having your father at your wedding, or not ever having your own life and own family? That is the decision you will have to make. Is continuing to live under your father's thumb until one of you dies more important to you than your fiancee, and your own happiness?

 

Devildog,

 

Agreed... but perhaps the change was just too sudden for everyone. If the transition was smoother, if my father and financee were on better terms, then I think things would be much easier. Since things were rough to begin with, it hit him hard when I moved out. There are many other factors to his behaviour that we may never know but the gist of it is this:

 

I love my father too much and feel I "owe" it to him and myself to be on good terms with him for all the years that he has raised me... because he will be (hopefully) around for a few years longer!

 

Otherwise I would have already said, "Suit yourself, Dad, you're doing this to yourself, see if we care if you show up at the wedding!" instead of putting me and my fiancee through this crap..!

[blind_otter]

You need to bite the bullet and accept that your Dad is in the wrong, is not thinking logically, and he needs to come to terms with it, himself.

 

I was also very close to my Mom, when I was younger, and she was very controlling and domineering. When I moved out, when I was 19, she was furious and determined to cut me out of her life for good. So I kept visiting my Dad, who has always been great, and let her do what she wanted. I did say, "you need to grow up Mom. There are consequences for your actions. That's what you always told me. So, you live with the consequences of your choice."

 

She didn't say anything to me, and we didn't speak for a year. I lived my life, learned to be independent, and she eventually came to her senses and realized how absurd it was to demand that I live with her, basically for HER comfort level.

 

Basically, all parents have to deal with the fact that their children will grow up, leave home, and have independent lives one day. Some are healthy and supportive of this process. Others....aren't. But you still have to do it.

 

My brother-in-law's parents disowned him for marrying my sister because she is biracial (as I am) - they said that if God wanted the races to mix, he would have made them that way. Well, they didn't go to the wedding and didn't speak to my sister and her husband for 5 years. But then my sister had her first son and they HAD to see their grandchild.

 

Moral of the story - be patient. If he CAN come around, he will, and you will have earned more respect for standing your ground.

[ehehef]

Blind_Otter:

 

Wow, impressive! That is one of the wisest pieces of advice I've heard and also what I keep hearing from many people... PATIENCE is the key... but unfortunately I'm not a very patient person and want to FIX things as soon as they are broken. At least I admit this.. :-)

 

What you said to your mother is EXACTLY what I have heard from my father, that I have to "accept the consequences of my action". As he said, though, he never expected those actions to be against what HE thought was the right thing to do.

 

Problem is, I can be independent and be on my own if I have to. But it's VERY important for me, emotionally, to feel I have my father behind me. Not for financial support, just to know he is there, as he has always been and as _I_ am trying to be for him.

 

The one light of reassurance in all this is that I will DEFINITELY be respected more -- by everyone and my father AND myself, for standing my ground.

 

But what about making sure to show him CONTINUOUSLY that I am NOT "the bad guy", that I care about him, want to be there for him, and to be on good terms with him. Instead of listening to his stupid comments about us not seeing each other and turning my back on him altogether. I seriously worry for his health and sanity if I do that, it's just too cruel. My fiancee, however, would have no problem doing this, which makes me feel even more alone in dealing with my father.

 

Let's hope this doesn't last a year or years because I really don't know if I can take it!

[blind_otter]

You can take it. Human beings can take a lot, that's what makes us what we are.

 

I wasn't dependent on my family financially, I was very close to my Mom in that she micromanaged my life and, like your Dad, was shocked when I chose to do things that she didn't want.

 

But you're not the bad guy, regardless. That's a construction, and a fallacious one at that, inside your Dad's head. If he was schizophrenic we would refer to this as a delusion. He is just using guilt to manipulate you into doing what he wants. I mean, honestly it sounds like he's just not used to NOT getting his way.

 

He's acting childish. Therefore, his behavior doesn't merit any more effort on your part. When people are clinging to a delusion, you can sit there and talk and talk and reason and reason until you pass out. They won't budge. The less you push him to see it your way, the better off you'll be. That way it doesn't look like you have something to prove.

[ehehef]

[The less you push him to see it your way, the better off you'll be. That way it doesn't look like you have something to prove.

 

Can we elaborate on this? Do you mean that by pushing less I might actually achieve MORE? It's true that my father is that type... since he's secretive about his thoughts and feelings, he has rarely shared them with us except when we give him the time and space to tell us when he wants to.

 

Important point is that my parents have not gotten along for years. To the point of a near divorce a few years back. And let's just say that I think that my father stating that he stayed with us for 30 years because of his son, is probably quite true.

 

I just feel that he's not giving me a chance to show my appreciation at him being a good father when I was growing up. And ESPECIALLY now when I need his support and space to make such a big move in my life, it's like he's throwing it in my face.

 

Although I have done things in the past that my father has not been too happy with, he always showed his support. Except this time. And what's worse, he said: "I cannot support something which is KILLING me!", and I believe it. His health is seriously suffering as a result of stress, anxiety and being upset. But I guess he has brought all this on himself...

[blind_otter]

My (very wise) father once told me that the best way I can show my appreciation for him raising me was to move forward and be successful in my life.

 

Basically, talk is cheap. The more you try to talk it out, the less it looks like you really mean anything. Actions DO speak louder than words.

 

Well, your father put his life aside in order to provide for his child. That was his choice. He needs a reminder of that. As a parent you can't expect a child to dedicate their whole life to you - they need their own life. Ever seen "Like Water for Chocolate"?

 

And no, you, nor the situation, is killing him. He is allowing this to affect every aspect of his life, and that, too, is his choice. Stop feeling responsible for someone else's emotional state. It is every adult's responsibility to handle their own emotions, and figure out how to best function in life. You are his child. He is not your child.

[ehehef]

A new development (hope somebody can reply to this QUICK!)...

 

My father apparently today called my future father-in-law to "casually" ask him to meet for coffee... something he did about a week ago and was politely brushed off since my father-in-law was generally busy. But my in-laws called us over, wondering why my father was suddenly calling after not being heard from for over 6 months. We informed them of his position, and of ours...

 

BUT now here he is, insisting. I consider it INEXCUSABLE that he is doing this behind my back, probably as a way to PERSUADE my fiancee's parents of something ... or maybe just to prepare them that he won't be at the wedding. Nobody knows really. They wanted advice, since they will do what their daughter wants, and basically we told them that they should do what they want.

 

THIS time we have to be more firm. I'm just about ready to phone up my father and yell at him for all this, but I know that won't help. I'm also indecisive about this meeting -- maybe it should be done with all of us present, to "clear the air"?? Or maybe we should be firm and say, "If you've got something to say, it's between us -- me, my fiancee and you" and we should leave the others out of this problem. They don't want any part of it.

 

I know that if we're not firm, or if this meeting doesn't happen, he'll keep insisiting. I honestly don't know why, but he's such an effective diplomat that he might try to CONVINCE them of something........

 

Personally, I just feel like jumping on a plane to Timbuktu....

[blind_otter]

You're right - this is between him, yourself, and your fiancee. The in-laws should not even be involved in your dispute with your father. They should tell him that unless this is a polite visit, he needs to take up this matter with you and your fiancee.

 

Otherwise this could become a big, huge, complex fracas that no one wants to deal with.

[ehehef]

Well, if he wants to tell them in person that he won't be at the wedding, they have a right to know.

 

I think I will suggest that they simply tell him what you wrote... that if it's a polite visit, to come on over for coffee. If not, he should talk to us.

 

Keep in mind my father is SUCH a diplomat that he'll say it's a polite visit JUST to get in the same room with them, and then beat the issue around the bush before getting to what he really wants to say!

 

My fiancee of course is about ready to call HIM up and tell him off, because she thinks I can't control him......but that's another issue. She wants me to have the kind of control over my parents as she does over hers....

[blind_otter]

I think it's more a matter of, he isn't respecting your wishes. You've made it clear that you're going to do what you're going to do. It's not like you said, "Hey Dad, I'm getting a sex change operation and shooting up heroin and there's nothing you can do about it!" You're getting married and want to work out how to live with your fiancee. You've been a respectful and obedient son.

 

Ya know, Dad should appreciate that in YOU - so few children are respectful and obedient, these days.