Only child moved out before wedding but parents causing problems!?

[izzybelle]

i'm not sure if i've seen this perspective on the situation here and i apologize if i missed it. and i also will apologize in advance for my comments here since this is a situation near and dear to my heart.

 

my ex-in-laws were a nightmare! i know i'm not alone in that. my ex is half hispanic, i'm none, i'd been married before and because of those two things i was an awful terrible human being. when we announced that we were getting married we heard many of the same things that you're hearing. his mom would say "it's killing your father that you're doing this." he was just trying to manipulate. he tried to refuse to come to our wedding but did come begrudginly, i wish he hadn't, he was a sour puss the whole time. he did, however, refuse to go to one of his other son's weddings, she also isn't hispanic and had been married before and had kids. my ex MIL is much the same but more subtle. she's one of those people who always has to create conflict within the family. she always needs to pick someone for everyone to be mad at. IMO they are just not nice people all around to those they supposedly care about as family but hey.... my MIL is getting honored by her church for her outstanding service!!!

 

we tried to deal with the situation before we got married and couldn't get anything resolved. and over time it got worse. any time we or my ex did anything else they didn't approve of, he was cut out of the will. and since it's a sizeable amount it was always supposed to be a major threat. he tried to stand up to them, i know he did, i heard the conversations. we tried killing them with kindness, we tried everything we could think of. there were times when things would get so bad that my ex wouldn't want to talk to them because they were so nasty to me. i worked with his mother for a while to try to repair my ex's relationship with his dad. my giving them grandchildren helped briefly but then we got into all the things that I was doing wrong as a mother. i couldn't win.

 

try to do what you can to get this resolved before you get married. i know it's hard, i've been there. but i can't begin to tell you how much damage it ultimately did to our marriage. the constant struggle, the put downs, the nasty remarks. good thing is...i know all sorts of nasty names in spanish because i was called every single one of them. of course all this said, since my in-laws hated me so much one would have thought that they would have been pleased when we divorced. nope...that just gave them the opportunity to call me all sorts of other nasty names.

 

i know my situation was probably more drastic than most and if my marriage had been stronger we maybe could have survived the constant turmoil. i have no words of wisdom for you to help you because we could find nothing that worked. perhaps if my ex and i had gone into the marriage with a clearer understanding of what we would face because of his family we would have been better off. but i don't think either of us knew. needless to say he's getting married again and from what i've heard they're nice to her (who know what goes on behind her back) but they were never even nice to me in front of my mother! maybe they've learned their lesson.

 

i wish you well, and good luck, but please for the sake of you marriage and your future together try to come to peace with all of this before the wedding.

[ehehef]

I probably shouldn't be writing under the influence of being upset, but I just have to get this out...

 

Well, as I suggested and as my therapist agreed, I phoned my father this morning in order to express the following:

 

1. I think it's WRONG that he tries to involve my future father-in-law when he (the FIL) has nothing to do with our problems.

 

2. He has all the right to a social coffee with the FIL (it's a free country) but to discuss anything about the wedding would be WRONG. It should be done directly with us, the couple.

 

Well, I said the above, but the call quickly turned into a shouting match, with us saying more or less:

 

F = father

M = me

 

T: "You have destroyed your family. You listened to others and wrote us off completely!"

M: "I'm TRYING to show you that's not the case, but you don't let me!"

 

T: "One of us is not going to be gone before Xmas... You're not the one running to the doctors every single day!"

M: "Bull****! You're doing this to yourself, Dad!"

 

T: "It's your fault..."

and a few seconds later:

T: "It's your fiancee's fault"

A: "So TALK IT OVER WITH HER!"

 

T: "Now you're rebelling? You're not TWELVE you know!"

A: "Yes Dad, EXACTLY because I'm not 12 I can't understand why you're making it so hard on me!"

 

T: "You don't have the guts. You're afraid of your fiancee and what she'll do if you move back. She made you move."

A: "The only thing others are doing is making me feel stronger to put my foot down for what I want to do and what I believe in."

 

A: "Help me understand TWO THINGS Dad:

1. WHY you took it so hard that I moved out!

2. WHY it's now "your way or the highway"!"

the only response I got (as always) was:

T: "I WARNED you about the consequences before you wanted to move and you went ahead and did it anyway!"

A: "But you're not telling me WHY!"

 

T: "It's over between us... you and I shouldn't talk anymore.... I was considering not answering when I saw your call this morning."

 

T: "If you doubt whether I love you or not, you're absolutely wrong."

A: "Well if my parents LOVE me, they should respect my decisions!"

T: "YOU didn't respect me, how can I respect YOU now!?"

 

T: "You're wrong, and EVERYONE knows it."

 

 

Generally, it was a total mess. My questions are simple:

 

1. IF I didn't see the damage I would cause by moving, why doesn't he try to convince me now that what I am doing is wrong? hmmm...

 

2. WHY doesn't he want to sit down and have a discussion with my fiancee and I, if he thinks she is to blame?

 

3. WHY has he approached my future father-in-law, who is even WEAKER in dealing with my father than I am... why not the mother-in-law, with whom he has more things in common? hmmm...

 

4. Generally, although he is a VERY logical person and has tried to teach me logic all my life, WHY IS HE NOT REACTING LOGICALLY? I know he wants things to be better (goes without saying and he has also said it himself) but he doesn't seem to be ABLE to do anything to make it better!

[Devildog]

He has no logical reason for feeling the way he does. And if he is as logical as you say he is he doesn't know how to deal with the fact that this is something he feels, not thinks logically about.

 

Unfortunately I have no advice on how you can deal with this situation to make things better. I don't think there is anyway to make everyone happy in this situation. You can either move back home and end your relationship with your fiancee and hurt her, which will make your father happy and you will never have your own life, or you can stand your ground and have your own life with your fiancee and hurt your father. It isn't an easy decision I know but it is one you are being forced to make. Best of luck to you on that one.

[ehehef]

Devildog,

 

The choice is obvious. But what's worse is that I have NO GUARANTEE that by standing my ground and living my life, that I will be able to EVER speak with my father again. Not by my own choice -- by HIS.

 

And that if something serious happens to his health, I will never forgive myself. But that's not a reason to put my life on hold, I think.

[Devildog]

You get guarantees with your life? Why didn't I ever have that option? LOL

 

There are never any guarantees with life. All you can do is roll the dice and see what happens. We have to make choices that affect our lives every day. Some are just bigger choices. But they all affect our lives and who we are and who we become.

 

I think any health issues your father might be having at this point are psychosomatic. They are his issues, not what you are doing.

[Debster]

Jeez.... Why don't you just call of the wedding and move back in with your father? A very, very sad, lonely, life for a man in his thirties... but hey, that's the life you seem to be choosing. After all, you should take relationship advice from a man who has been unhappily married for more than 30 years.

 

IMO, It is obvious by your insistence at trying to pretend that your father isn't a controlling, obstinate man that you will never see the light. You made your choice. Do your fiance a favour and let her find someone who can put her first.

[ehehef]

Debster,

 

Thanks for another eye-opening "attack"... my first reaction would be to say that I'm looking for support, not a kick in the rear, but then again, that helps too! :-)

 

I NEVER denied that my father is controlling, obstinate, overbearing, miserable and generally a complainer when he doesn't get his way.

 

I also do NOT intend to change anything about the wedding!

 

But do you not see how difficult it is to "pigeonhole" someone as a "bad person" (my fiancee's words) after being with him for so many years? Considering that we had perhaps a closer relationship than was healthy. I CANNOT LABEL MY OWN FATHER AS A BAD PERSON AND TOTALLY TURN MY BACK ON HIM, it's impossible. Because I'm proud of who I am, of what I have achieved in life, and what I want to do in the future. A part of this has to do with the way my parents raised me, so I cannot ignore that.

 

Lonely? Definitely not. I have plenty of friends who care for me and respect me. But among those friends over the past few years I also included my own parents. Not as parents, but as equals. THIS is what my father refuses to accept now.

 

Your turn! ;-)

[Debster]

There's no point in discussing this further. Re-read the posts you have written. They are all about your father and his relationship with your fiance. Most, if not all, of the responding posts have told you basically the same advice I have. And you refuse to listen. And you continue to make excuses. And you continue to try to see things as you want to see them and not as they are.

 

Do you have to consider your father a bad person to disagree with what he is doing and saying? No.

Do you have to abandon your father by telling him that you will only talk and be around him when he treats both you and your fiance with respect? No.

 

Why you can't, or refuse to see this, is beyond me. Hmmm... maybe there is a bit of your father in you.....

 

Basically it comes down to this - I feel for your fiance and what she is putting up with and will continue to put up with. Being married is challenging enough with inlaws that you do like and respect and vice versa. With inlaws (or a father-in-law) like your father - it would be horrible. With a husband who fails to flee the nest and not side with his wife, I see a future of a lot of fights.

 

But hey, it's your life.

[Elmo]

Okay...I've read the thread and realize this is a very sad situation for you.

 

I have 2 questions, and if you would be so kind to offer, I would like to respond.

 

#1 Is your dad from a different culture?

 

#2 Is your fiance as controlling as your dad....maybe taken his place?

[ehehef]

First, to reply to Elmo:

 

1. A good guess. Yes, he IS from a different culture (European), and although he has spent over 30 years in Canada, assimilated, picked up the language, educated himself, and constantly willing to show his "open-mindedness" to separate him from the other "villagers" (his words), it seems that since moving BACK to Europe a few years ago, he has changed as a person. But I think all this has more with him having to face his non-existent relationship with my mother after all these years, now that I've left the house for good (it's not the first time, mind you).

 

2. No, my fiancee is definitely NOT controlling. But she IS a strong-willed woman who won't take any crap from anybody and stands up for herself in a "this is how I am, take it or leave it". Which I love her for. As she says herself, I am the only person who can get her to change her mind about something.

 

And Debster:

 

Do you have to consider your father a bad person to disagree with what he is doing and saying? No.

 

Agreed. Which is where my fiancee and I don't agree, but we're OK with that.

 

Do you have to abandon your father by telling him that you will only talk and be around him when he treats both you and your fiance with respect? No.

 

THERE IS THE CATCH. _I_ personally will never want to "abandon" him, but his own behaviour is pushing me away. When I phone up to say hello and I hear him miserable and not even willing to make "small talk", how can I be motivated to keep trying? After all, he's the type who the more you push, the less results you'll see. When he himself says that we shouldn't talk anymore, as much as that WOUNDS me, what can I say? When he himself acts as if I have killed his best friend or something, and cannot seem to forgive and forget, what can I do? When his own stubborness and emotional reactions to the whole situation -- basically putting HIMSELF into a no-win situation -- will result in him not coming to my wedding, or seeing his own grandchildren in the future, what can I say or do?

 

It's not about abandoning. It's about ACCEPTING the inconceivable -- that for reasons nobody may EVER know, not even my father himself -- he has reacted badly and is distancing himself and causing his health harm. And as time goes by I realize more and more that HE is to blame for causing this, and that I have shown nothing but good intentions and a simple desire to LIVE MY LIFE with the woman I love -- at the age of 30!

 

I don't see why I should stop showing good intentions (calling him up once in a while just to say hi, dropping by the house to visit them when I feel like it, gifts on special occasions, etc.) but I don't expect any reciprocation anymore, and that hurts most of all.

 

Do you think I'm still not seeing things as they are?

[ehehef]

Again, I'm in a mood right now and just want to get it out...

 

I made the mistake today of phoning up my father... we hadn't spoken since last week, when I called him briefly to mention some good news about my work. I also visited my parents on Saturday, when he came into the house, said hello and went straight to take a nap!

 

Well today he was silent, in a mood, and thought that "these conversations are pointless"...I said, "Your son MISSES you, your son wants to talk to you!"...I asked if there was something I could do, and he said "Nothing." I even asked him about his health (he's seeing a lot of doctors lately, worried about some serious issues) but he didn't give any info. It's yet another time I've shown him I'm concerned, and he has thrown it in my face.

 

I simply told him, as I feel, that "Christmas is around the corner and I want to spend it with my family"... to which he just replied, "Maybe it's not a good idea, let's forget about it"...I even suggested that my fiancee and I might invite them along with HER parents over for a dinner to celebrate the holidays (just in case he think that SHE is the one who doesn't want him) and he replied no.

 

The professional and friendly advice I'm getting is to leave him alone, let him come to me, let him make the first move, but:

 

I said, "Well I'm sorry you feel that way, I'll be here waiting when you need to talk"

"You might wait forever." he replied.

 

The ball IS in his court, and I just can't help but think that I'm banging my head against the wall. I WANT MY FATHER. Not in my daily life, but to know that he is there for me, just to talk to or seek friendly advice, as he has been all these years. I know I'll make it "on my own", I know I am resilient, as we all are, but it makes me sick to my stomach to think that he won't be there.

 

I feel... I feel as if a parent has died.

[blind_otter]

I feel for you. This is a frustrating situation.

 

The ball is in his court. There's really nothing else you can do. In all likelihood he will come around, probably to see his first grandchild. Keep your chin up and do see a professional for some extra support.

[ehehef]

You can say that again, blind_otter!

 

Imagine that after much deliberation and convincing of my fiancee (who doesn't want to see or hear about my father), I sent him a brief e-mail to invite him over to our apartment for Christmas eve, to celebrate the holiday along with us and my fiancee's family (my mother will be there, naturally)...

 

I said, simply and honestly:

"Dad, I'm tired and depressed with all this, I want to make peace and share the joys in my life with you. Christmas is around the corner and I'm thinking of you even more. I know you're not in the mood but I would love to see you on Friday night to celebrate Christmas together. Think about it, please. We'll be expecting you. All my love, always,"

 

And he replied with these these loving words:

" Sorry, under the circumstances I will NOT be celebrating Christmas this year. As far as I am concerned, I am in mourning for losing my only son."

 

To which I replied:

"Have it your way. I am making an effort and willing to do almost ANYTHING so I can show my father

that he HAS NOT LOST ME, and he is rejecting me. When you stop acting like a kid and feel like seeing your son who loves you very much (and is not turning his back on 30 good years), just call me. Merry Christmas."

 

And since he just HAD to have the last word:

"He HAS turned his back after 30 years. Case "CLOSED"."

 

Amazing, sad and funny at the same time. At least nobody can accuse ME of not behaving nicely and even being TOO nice with him!

 

What the $%*?! can you do?

 

My fiancee insists that once I accept that my father was a bad father, was oppressing me all my life and made some serious mistakes in raising me without giving me room to breathe.... WITHOUT however changing the fact that I do love him and want to be in touch with him.... then things will be easier for me. I don't know if I should do that, if I CAN do that, it's just very hard, kind of like a "Matrix" situation where you have been believing and seeing something totally different all your life... :-)

[ehehef]

Just another "rant" from me on the same old, frustrating, upsetting, depressing situation...

 

Although I'm handling it a lot better now and in some ways accepting some things more, it doesn't seem like anything is improving...

 

My father still seems hurt, stubborn, selfish and closed-minded and despite my attempts to get through to him, the only thing I've accomplished is that when I have visited my parents these past couple of weeks, he doesn't leave the room or the house! But no phonecalls, no e-mails, nothing except when I go over there, where we watch TV or eat together or just make small talk.

 

But the holidays were the worst. Even on Christmas Eve when my fiancee seemed to relax a bit and accept that we had to invite BÕTH my parents over for the family gathering we had, guess who showed up? Only my mother. She was there yet again when my fiancee's family had a party a week later and we danced the night away. But no New Year's celebrations or meals with my parents...

 

Yet it seems he's expecting something from ME, perhaps for me to cave in to his insane demand that I move back home before my wedding! I hear from my mother that he is totally stuck... that it's as if he wants things to be better between us, but doesn't know HOW. If he agrees to "make a fresh start" (as I have said and tried to show), it would seem as if he's taking a step back and admitting some responsibility for all this. Which his big fat ego will NEVER allow him to do.

 

How do you get through to someone who WANTS you to get through but hs own ego and selfishness is putting up a wall between us?

 

The worst part is MY feelings... feelings of abandonment and betrayal. The sheer incomprehensibility of it all -- that with 30 good years of a close and happy relationship with my parents, a solid upbringing and general good fortune in life, it has all come crashing down during what should be THE HAPPIEST TIME OF MY LIFE.

 

And then I hate myself for the little "what if" thoughts -- what if my fiancee was a more low-key person and didn't rebel so much against my father's imposing character? What if he knew that she would do this and gave her some space? What if I prepared them both for all this BEFORE they met each other? What if I had put my foot down with everyone early enough and threatened to just walk away if they didn't use some logic?

 

I just want a CALM, DECENT FAMILY lifestyle -- where we can visit both our parents once a week or once every 2 weeks... where they can all phone home and say hello... where holidays and special events are not to be dreaded, but enjoyed....

[Sillynilly]

wow this situation stinks...... maybe you can spend some constructive time together with your father. Say sign up for a bowling league or something that way your father will know you have "father & Son" time once a week. If he refuses still, I think only time will tell. It seems he has his own issues and he needs to work them out himself. Nothing you can do will help him get over the fact that you are not 12 years old anymore and your a grown man starting a new life with your new bride.

 

Good Luck to you and your new bride.

[ehehef]

Originally posted by Sillynilly

Say sign up for a bowling league or something that way your father will know you have "father & Son" time once a week....

 

Bowling????? While I like it, it's about as foreign a concept to my father as kayaking down the Amazon (or something). I usually DO go home to visit them both about once a week or so (but never on the same day, just to keep them on their toes) but not this week (and not anytime soon, just to see whether he'll complain to my mother)...

 

What he needs is a good shaking up, to feel he'll lose me, and snap to his senses. Otherwise, I have friends who can help administer a good beating. (just kidding).