How could I how could I not

[Speakingofwhich]

PS I will come here to check on you in the morning! Get some rest! ((((Wrinkled))))

[Red Wolverine]

No. He says he doesn't know if he can be with me but the answer isn't no. I ask him if he is going to be with her and he says he doesn't know. He was so firm in his resolve. I don't understand what happened. I'm falling apart I need a hug I can't stop crying

 

Seriously, this won't help you but everyone else needs to heed this.

 

Aside from an affair in the first place, the biggest mistake I made was reconciling with him after I ended it when he came back and said he would divorce.

 

It's not that he lied. It's simply too much to end a relationship or marriage and still sustain/build a relationship with another person. He and I discussed this many times. He wanted me with him to help him through it. I agreed because I loved him.

 

I believe he had every intention, that he wanted to build a life with me. It was simply too much to watch the mother of his children be devastated while he was planning a life with me. His conscience finally caught up with him. Happiness at the expense of another is horrific, especially when that person is your wife.

 

When people on this forum tell others to stay away until the divorce is final, it's not just because your MM might be lying. Even with honesty, endings have to play out before you can start planning a new beginning.

[2sunny]

Well, I think this is pretty blatant wavering:

 

 

 

He sounds like a guy who is suddenly realizing he may be free from a long term relationship and doesn't want to be tied down to yet another long term relationship quite yet. Sad to say, this is sounding like an exit affair. Even if he came back around, his actions would be questionable at this point.

 

I think it's cruel to the GF and cruel to wrinkled.

 

Makes me angry the guy doesn't just be HONEST about what's REALLY going on!

 

I mean - ya make a decision and you let others know what that decision is.

 

But it really looks like he's totally playing and hurting both women!

 

 

Unless ---> he never told the GF anything - and chickened out. That would make more sense. I think he chickened out and doesn't want to tell you.

 

If that's the case - and it were me - I would NEVER speak to him or see him ever again!

 

He's selfish!

[happy stillmore]

Red wolverine,

Which is exactly why I will never be in a relationship with an already committed person ever again. Commit me first into the psych ward. Lesson learned. If everyone was honest with themselves first, it saves heartache all around. Even if the spouse is hurt when told a relationship is over, it is easier if there isn't a betrayal too.

Edited September 3, 2013 by happy stillmore

[2sunny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrinkledforhead

No. He says he doesn't know if he can be with me but the answer isn't no. I ask him if he is going to be with her and he says he doesn't know. He was so firm in his resolve. I don't understand what happened. I'm falling apart I need a hug I can't stop crying

 

This sounds like he intends to keep you on the side while maintaining his R with the GF.

 

Is that something you would consider at this point?

 

 

I hope you know you deserve an available man... And if that's not him - you deserves someone who will have honesty in the R. I don't think he's capable of it - not after what he's done with the past few days.

 

In order to have your self respect - it looks like you may need to end communication with him.

 

He's got some major defects to address for himself.

[SidLyon]

It's hard to know IF he's wavering ....

 

I think the OP told us he was wavering, in her earlier post when she said:

 

"He wavers. I'm shattered."

 

I'm guessing from this that she is still in some sort of contact with him and that he hasn't completely gone silent. I could be mistaken of course...

 

It almost sounds like he's doing the flip flop dance...

[SidLyon]

This sounds like he intends to keep you on the side while maintaining his R with the GF.

 

Is that something you would consider at this point?

 

 

I hope you know you deserve an available man... And if that's not him - you deserves someone who will have honesty in the R. I don't think he's capable of it - not after what he's done with the past few days.

 

In order to have your self respect - it looks like you may need to end communication with him.

 

He's got some major defects to address for himself.

 

Quite possibly.

 

Although BW and OW are both being played and betrayed by these MM and both feel the pain, I've noticed that a BW is more likely to issue an ultimatum "it's her or me" than an OW is.

 

I suspect it's because the MM already knows the OW is willing to share (a man), and an OW knows he knows it, so an ultimatum from an OW does not hold much weight. On the other hand a BW (who hasn't previously taken him back after multiple d-days) is more likely to mean it, and be less willing to share. Because realistically most wives don't want to share and most OW are doing exactly that.

[shortee]

I already said I think your man is a sociopath. He told you what you wanted to hear and what you wanted to believe. If he had any intention of leaving, he would. No preparation was necessary. They were not married. Just tell her its over and walk away.

[wrinkledforhead]

Well, I think this is pretty blatant wavering:

 

 

 

He sounds like a guy who is suddenly realizing he may be free from a long term relationship and doesn't want to be tied down to yet another long term relationship quite yet. Sad to say, this is sounding like an exit affair. Even if he came back around, his actions would be questionable at this point.

 

I don't know. He's always been petrified that I'd leave him in the future, in a few years.

 

He came over last night. I'll probably catch **** for it, but he did, and I allowed him. We had sex and then we cried and talked and cried and he carried me to bed. Last night as we sat he asked me if I was wavering, if I had any insight, any thought that I'd leave him in the future. He's insecure in that area.

 

I don't know what to do. I don't know if I'm supposed to be in pain while he figures this out. I care for him. He's in pain, too. It's written all over his face. And he held my face last night as I crumpled and said, "oh, my sweetheart." It's written all over my face, too.

 

So what do I do? Do I stay? Do I let him work through this alone? Do I cling to some shred of hope or do I figure out a way to eliminate it? What do I do?

[xxoo]

He needs to do this on his own, without your soft place to fall. The way he's handling this isn't fair to you or to her. He should not be spending evenings crying with her, and crying with you, and leaving everyone a tragic mess.

 

Require him to get his house in order. Tell him he needs to come to you as a single man, or not at all. Be tough! He sounds terribly weak, already fearful that you'll leave him. He won't make a good partner to anyone until he grows a backbone and realizes that he can stand on his own two feet.

 

Aren't you a little disgusted his inability to man up?

[Calcmag]

He needs to do this on his own, without your soft place to fall. The way he's handling this isn't fair to you or to her. He should not be spending evenings crying with her, and crying with you, and leaving everyone a tragic mess.

 

Require him to get his house in order. Tell him he needs to come to you as a single man, or not at all. Be tough! He sounds terribly weak, already fearful that you'll leave him. He won't make a good partner to anyone until he grows a backbone and realizes that he can stand on his own two feet.

 

Aren't you a little disgusted his inability to man up?

 

Excellent post.

[maidai]

He needs to do this on his own without you there to cushion the blow. You both need a break for a month either NC or LC whilst he clears his head and you clear yours. Take sometime for you. Remember in all this as much as you love him you are your first safe guard. You are the one you need to look after. If he works through it and decides he wants to be with you in time then at least both of you will have had some space to heal and work on yourselves in the meantime meaning it will be much healthier if you re unite after xxx I wish you well. I really hope you get through this all.

[wrinkledforhead]

He needs to do this on his own, without your soft place to fall. The way he's handling this isn't fair to you or to her. He should not be spending evenings crying with her, and crying with you, and leaving everyone a tragic mess.

 

Require him to get his house in order. Tell him he needs to come to you as a single man, or not at all. Be tough! He sounds terribly weak, already fearful that you'll leave him. He won't make a good partner to anyone until he grows a backbone and realizes that he can stand on his own two feet.

 

Aren't you a little disgusted his inability to man up?

 

Yes. I've called him a coward before.

 

See, I know I can stand on my own two feet. Prior to him I was single for 3 years. I'm not afraid to be alone. I am terribly sad to lose a good friend to me. He asked me last night if we are bad for each other. We are. And in so many ways we are not.

[Calcmag]

Yes. I've called him a coward before.

 

See, I know I can stand on my own two feet. Prior to him I was single for 3 years. I'm not afraid to be alone. I am terribly sad to lose a good friend to me. He asked me last night if we are bad for each other. We are. And in so many ways we are not.

 

Why did he ask if you're bad for each other? Is he trying to put some blame on you for something? In my experience, the person who's already committed to another and keeps that relationship going when they meet someone new is usually the one who is 'bad for' the single person. I don't see his line of thinking here?

 

I truly believe that the only way to deal with this is for you to get out and make it clear to him that you will no longer BE the OW nor will you tolerate him having ongoing contact with her. He needs to see that you are firm in this. But honestly, after some time when you can take a step back , ie the pain has reduced somewhat, do you think you will still want him after all of this?

 

How are you feeling today?

[wrinkledforhead]

He needs to do this on his own without you there to cushion the blow. You both need a break for a month either NC or LC whilst he clears his head and you clear yours. Take sometime for you. Remember in all this as much as you love him you are your first safe guard. You are the one you need to look after. If he works through it and decides he wants to be with you in time then at least both of you will have had some space to heal and work on yourselves in the meantime meaning it will be much healthier if you re unite after xxx I wish you well. I really hope you get through this all.

 

Yes. Okay.

 

Please guys, keep telling me. Reiterate. Open my eyes. I need guidance. I need to be awoken. I need help.

[wrinkledforhead]

Why did he ask if you're bad for each other? Is he trying to put some blame on you for something? In my experience, the person who's already committed to another and keeps that relationship going when they meet someone new is usually the one who is 'bad for' the single person. I don't see his line of thinking here?

 

I truly believe that the only way to deal with this is for you to get out and make it clear to him that you will no longer BE the OW nor will you tolerate him having ongoing contact with her. He needs to see that you are firm in this. But honestly, after some time when you can take a step back , ie the pain has reduced somewhat, do you think you will still want him after all of this?

 

How are you feeling today?

 

I'm not always nice. I give him ****. I point out failings. I mock his love, and my love. I am not afraid to say this is screwed up. I show him the pain he puts me through. All of these things . . . They are not all that I do. I do it as needed, and not often in a cruel way. But I'm not just a soft spot. I am an alarm. I am a wake up call. When we are falling apart we don't eat. We don't groom ourselves and thoroughly tend to our homes. This is both of us. We react to despair in the same way. This R has changed us and destroyed parts of us.

 

I'm ready to tell him. I have two classes this morning and plan to see him after. I have a million thoughts racing through my mind. He's not an idiot--he too knows that we could never see this through together. We know this, but then we see each other and we kiss and its comfortable. Or we don't see each other and still text and call. We care for each other. We *are* good for each other in that way. We're best friends. And friends help each other when they're falling apart. We are weak in this way. We meet needs each other have.

 

But I will be the strong one. I have to get to class. He said amazing things in regards to the strength I carry in my every day. I see my weakness and mock my own strength, but he helped me to finally see that part of me that many have admired before. I understand it now.

 

Thank you all. I need this support so much. Thank you.

[xxoo]

Gather your strength! Your pain has a purpose, telling you to make changes in your life. His pain has a purpose, too, but it is up to him to make those changes or not. You can only make choices for yourself.

[imfine]

A best friend won't dangle you by your ankles over the fire causing this type of visceral pain.

[2sunny]

He's just asked you if you're willing to continue being his OW.

 

I hope you respect yourself enough to say no.

 

He follows the typical behavior, now, as a typical cake eater - selfish - wanting both women.

 

I thought he might actually be a rare one I and end it to be with you.but since he didn't - I can't see how he will do it in his future.

 

He wants her - he wants you - at the cost of hurting both women - that's not loving behavior.

 

I hope you're see you deserve better than a weak man crying because he can't have it both ways. He's scared one will leave him and he won't get his needs met.

 

what about you? You deserve more than half a man. If he didn't leave now - he's not likely to leave later.

 

I hope you say no way to his attempt to keep you as his OW.

[Quiet Storm]

This sounds awfully over the top and dramatic for a couple of people who have only been together for 5 months. I'm gonna ask the guy I've been dating for a few months if he's going to stay for me forever, while crying and acting devastated, lol. On second thought maybe not. I think that would scare him off.

 

Later you say he asked you if you two were bad for each other and you said that you are bad for each other. Based on that and on the over the top drama of a 5 month relationship, this makes me think your relationship is one of those high chemistry toxic relationships that people get into and get addicted to when they have unresolved issues and poor boundaries. A lot of people have had at least 1 explosive toxic relationship that they felt powerless to save themselves from, including myself. Some people have several relationships like this.

 

Looking back on my own life and studying the relationships of others, I tend to believe that when a relationship has over the top, overwhelming feelings of love and pain within just a few months, which isn't normal or healthy, that the relationship isn't really about love or even about the other person. Rather it's the way the two are mirroring each other and triggering each others unresolved issues. It's not healthy and not likely to last long term.

 

I really think you need to step back from this guy for at least a month or two and get yourself grounded in reality again. You barely know him and you certainly don't owe him any promises of forever. He has no right to ask that of you. Really at 5 months this relationship should still be in the getting to know you phase, not making lifelong promises. None of this sounds good or healthy to me. Take a break from him.

 

I totally agree. Wrinkled- you are a psych major. You need to get a grip. Your emotions are overriding your logic. You have to know this isn't healthy. You are romanticizing so much that you are unable to see reality. He is not even married, no kids, no excuses. He doesn't even have to move out! He absolutely let you down and misled you, and you still welcome him open arms and have sex with him. You have to know you are worth more than this.

 

You need to cut off contact with him, and do some work on yourself to find out why you are so attracted to this lying, crying coward.

 

This isnt some soulmate love story. You are two people with your own individual issues. That draw you feel, the intensity... It's all part of a dysfunctional dance you two are doing subconciously. I'm sure he has a similar, but different dysfunctional dance with his girlfriend. It's not healthy and I think you intellectually know that. You just have to take action and end this. It will be hard and painful, but you will be ok.

[whatatangledweb]

He seems to be afraid of the future so he doesn't want to leave the safety of the relationship he has now. Someone has to force him to make a choice. If I were you I would tell him not to contact you any more until he has completely ended his other relationship. Otherwise I see him going back and forth.

 

His GF isn't going to force him as she doesn't know there is another OW. She sees the hope he has dangled in front of her and she will be working to fix what ever she thinks he wants. You see the hope he has dangled in front of you of a future together so you wait. He is being selfish and cruel to both of you.

[2sunny]

He's so afraid to be alone - he hurts two women to get what he wants.

 

And the thought of him being with her over the weekend having emotion fueled sex - then running to you Monday crying because he was so wimpy he didn't end it is gross.

 

Top that with rewarding his bad behavior and being a coward - by having sex with him - it's just backwards.

 

Since he's not likely to end his primary R - you be better off ending it now - before he hurts you further.

[wrinkledforhead]

This sounds awfully over the top and dramatic for a couple of people who have only been together for 5 months. I'm gonna ask the guy I've been dating for a few months if he's going to stay for me forever, while crying and acting devastated, lol. On second thought maybe not. I think that would scare him off.

 

Later you say he asked you if you two were bad for each other and you said that you are bad for each other. Based on that and on the over the top drama of a 5 month relationship, this makes me think your relationship is one of those high chemistry toxic relationships that people get into and get addicted to when they have unresolved issues and poor boundaries. A lot of people have had at least 1 explosive toxic relationship that they felt powerless to save themselves from, including myself. Some people have several relationships like this.

 

Looking back on my own life and studying the relationships of others, I tend to believe that when a relationship has over the top, overwhelming feelings of love and pain within just a few months, which isn't normal or healthy, that the relationship isn't really about love or even about the other person. Rather it's the way the two are mirroring each other and triggering each others unresolved issues. It's not healthy and not likely to last long term.

 

I really think you need to step back from this guy for at least a month or two and get yourself grounded in reality again. You barely know him and you certainly don't owe him any promises of forever. He has no right to ask that of you. Really at 5 months this relationship should still be in the getting to know you phase, not making lifelong promises. None of this sounds good or healthy to me. Take a break from him.

 

 

It is very dramatic and emotional. We recognize this. Only at times. Most of the time we are able to have rational, logical discussions. And fun. We laugh together frequently.

 

We recognize that the demands we make for ourselves are unfair to the other person. I demand what anyone wants--a loving, monogamous, commited relationship, and he demands patience. He did recognize the farce of promising forever this early on, and knows its an unfair expectation and question at this point.

 

We both have our moments but ultimately we are sensible people.

 

Which is why we just sat down and had a discussion and decided together that we are hurting each other and ourselves too much to continue in this, in this way. We care too much for each other as people to let this part of the pain continue. I deserve more. He deserves more. We deserve more of each other than what we currently give each other.

 

And having said all that, part of me feels very empty at the thought of not being with someone I cherish, one of the most amazing people I've ever met. While I'm calm and level headed, right now, I'm mentally looking over the stages of grief and noting the stages I will go through, how I will feel in those moments, and how to ultimately save myself. I have to keep my sanity. I mustn't let this make me bitter, carve scars, exacerbate insecurity.

[2sunny]

It's a good decision for yourself - for now.

 

I'd be questioning his ability to be totally honest with others...it's a big issue and shouldn't be over looked.

 

 

Time should give you some clarity - along with some distance from his emotional state - and that should help you understand what's best for you in the long run.

 

Hugs

[Calcmag]

Which is why we just sat down and had a discussion and decided together that we are hurting each other and ourselves too much to continue in this, in this way. We care too much for each other as people to let this part of the pain continue. I deserve more. He deserves more. We deserve more of each other than what we currently give each other.

 

And having said all that, part of me feels very empty at the thought of not being with someone I cherish, one of the most amazing people I've ever met. While I'm calm and level headed, right now, I'm mentally looking over the stages of grief and noting the stages I will go through, how I will feel in those moments, and how to ultimately save myself. I have to keep my sanity. I mustn't let this make me bitter, carve scars, exacerbate insecurity.

 

 

So does this mean that he's going back to her?

He was going to leave her to be with you, and now you two are over so he can stay with her to save her further pain?

All the angsting he did about hurting her and blah blah and talking with his therapist to get advice about how to end it, and it comes to this. It's a pity he didn't talk with the therapist about what to do if he turned out to be a pitiful coward who is prepared to hurt both women.

 

This is all very odd.

 

I really do feel for you and wish you all the best in healing from this.