We're separating...

[Owl]

Viv- Hang in there friend. Its tough, and I'm sorry that you're in such bad straights at the moment.

 

On the posting in the LS forums...

Thought I'd make the comment that I've told my wife where I'm posting at, and there is NO WAY she wouldn't know who I was on LS...the name is a dead giveaway for those who know me. I've told her that I've pretty much told everything there is to know on here, and that she's welcome to come look, but I know that she won't. For her, the affair is in the past, and she doesn't want reminders of it in her face. Don't feel guilty for posting here...its therapy, and a lot more helpful than chocolate!!

 

I'm not surprised at your daughter's reaction. Our daughter was totally insane when she found out about my wife's affair. Two days after my wife had gone to the motel, my daughter went into our bedroom (I was sleeping in the den on the futon...couldn't handle the bedroom solo) and packed everything of my wife's up into boxes for storage. Without telling or asking me. She was so angry at her mom for what her mom did and was doing to me that we really wondered if she'd ever forgive her. Even when my wife and I began to reconcile and rebuild, it took nearly the whole summer before my wife and daughter got back to where they were before. But, now they're closer than they were before! Now, its like they're both on the same side, and my wife is always talking about how great it is that they're like this.

 

Give her time. Right now, she's hurting over a lot of things. She feels like you've told everyone about what happened. She's probably mad as hell at you for what happened. She can't understand why you would continue contact with the OM, knowing the possible consequences. But, keep loving her, and showing her that you love her. Make sure that you tell her that while you and her daddy aren't doing well right now, it doesn't change your (or his) love for her. Your relationship may be strained and a little bent right now, but its not broken.

 

Hang in there. Don't be surprised that your husband looks awful. Right now that's exactly how he feels. But, keep the hope that you may yet get to where the two of you can talk. Try not to avoid him, no matter how lousy you feel when you see him. Try to be available, both physically and emotionally, so that if he gets to where he does want to talk with you, he knows that he can. Keep on living, and working to make yourself better too. Good luck to you, and know that you're in a lot of prayers right now.

[VivianLee]

meanon, I intend to show her as much love as I can possibly give. I totally understand her hurt and anger albeit, being on this forum isn't something I'm sorry for or regret, well....I regret I came here initially because I was in an affair and wanted to get out but turning here for other advice and seeking some for her benefit, I can't feel badly.

 

I was supposed to organize a birthday/football playoffs party for she and her friends. I'm still going to do so even if she doesn't want me there, I'm going to decorate and prepare the food and house for the occasion.

 

I'm here right now organizing the house because she goes to work and school, my husband goes to school, work and then is a minister, so until I get a job, I'm trying to make things easier on them. It gives me a sort of satisfaction to do little things like this....

 

Owl,

I really appreciate your setting aside your hurt and the fact you've been in the same situation as my husband to help me and give me insight. You are an amazing gentleman!! Everything you say gives me hope and helps me know what steps to take or when to sit back....I'm taking everything in and listening to yours and everyone's advise!!

 

Thank you so much!

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by VivianLee

I revealed in the an NC thread that I was "slipping" into contact. Well, my husband found the call logs and saw that I had (if he'd looked into the past month, he'd seen there were no calls) but it's too late and I was told to never talk to the OM again. I wasn't having an emotional or physical affair this time, I just couldn't break the addiction of talking to him. It truly wasn't leading anywhere or having anything to do with just friendship, I didn't want him or want to be with him nor he did he-me. We just couldn't keep a NC up.

 

I also posted alot in the addiction threads.....

 

 

Well call logs don't show what is in the heart and that is that despite everything my husband and I have been through and were going through, I wanted to grow old with him and I loved him desparately with all that was in me. I should have gotten counseling on the addiction.

 

Anyway, my husband is hurt and devastated, he wants me to leave. My poor child who is already screwed up as it is is going to be told in a way that hopefully won't kill her (like there is a way)...we may just tell her we are having problems.....

 

I want to die but that would be too good for me.

 

I tried so hard and I really, really wasn't having an affair of any kind BUT I still should have maintained NC!!

 

I won't have internet access at my parent's, so I don't know if I can update y'all or not. I will be here till later this evening as I pack my things to leave.

 

If anyone that is in an affair or is thinking of breaking NC...please read this and try and let it make you realize that it's NOT worth it. Get help if you can't fight the addiction but don't hurt poor innocent people because of your problems. I have now messed up my life to the point that I will never get it back and it was good. There was so many good things to it even if my marriage wasn't perfect, I was with someone that I loved and loved me. My poor child is now going to have a broken home and the poor thing is already so messed up inside.

 

I've lost everything precious to me.....just because I needed to talk to that person and couldn't stop cold turkey....it's not worth it....don't hit rock bottom before you stop! Please!

 

Thank y'all so much for talking to me and giving advice.....you all did the best you could...I just didn't get the counseling I should have gotten.....

 

Take care...

 

Get off the wagon of self pity. You make your choices. Addiction, my ass. What your problem is that instead of admitting to yourself that your husband was NOT fufilling the place inside of your mind that enabled you to have an affair in the first place you tried to convince yourself that HE was the one you wanted to stay with. Well guess what, your heart is telling you that's not the case.

 

What you should have done was separated from him a long time ago, instead of dragging this out.

 

And now what? Your husband, if I believe rightly, was a complete and utter turd to you previously. Didn't he cheat on you? Obviously that wound has never healed, and now you've placed HIM on a pedestal, and yourself in the gutter.

 

Your daughter is a horrible, manipulative little b*tch who needs a kick to the teeth along with that warm cup of love and understanding. Until YOU come to the realization that mistakes that you have made do NOT equal in her treating you like sh*t, she'll continue to do so (and by golly, you will almost deserve it with your self depricating BS)

 

Vivian, the pursuit of happiness does not make you evil. Being weak does not make you evil. It makes you stupid. And more than a little in denial.

[Owl]

You know Spock...you have to be about the most bitter, unhappiest person I've seen post on LS. I don't know your life, but wow. Have you ever been happy, or had something happy in your life?

[moimeme]

Always interesting how people who bleat on about others taking 'personal responsibility' have no trouble in blaming others for affairs. VivianLee's affair was not the fault of her husband. There is such a thing as 'love addiction' though it's called that as a popular term. It's why VivianLee stayed in a dysfunctional relationship. She should have demanded he get counselling with her on penalty of divorce if he didn't. Unfortunately, a lot of people who are in her sort of predicament turn to affairs rather than to solving the problems in the marriage. And the daughter is upset for a very good reason.

 

This is lesson time. Spend a lot of time figuring out why you stayed in a poor relationship and work on yourself to fix whatever the cause might have been or else you'll end up in another similar situation.

 

You'll survive and go on for sure but you won't thrive until you process all that's gone on and make some big changes.

 

It won't be easy, but you can do it.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by moimeme

Always interesting how people who bleat on about others taking 'personal responsibility' have no trouble in blaming others for affairs. VivianLee's affair was not the fault of her husband. There is such a thing as 'love addiction' though it's called that as a popular term. It's why VivianLee stayed in a dysfunctional relationship. She should have demanded he get counselling with her on penalty of divorce if he didn't. Unfortunately, a lot of people who are in her sort of predicament turn to affairs rather than to solving the problems in the marriage. And the daughter is upset for a very good reason.

 

This is lesson time. Spend a lot of time figuring out why you stayed in a poor relationship and work on yourself to fix whatever the cause might have been or else you'll end up in another similar situation.

 

You'll survive and go on for sure but you won't thrive until you process all that's gone on and make some big changes.

 

It won't be easy, but you can do it.

 

I'm tired of hearing Vivian verbally bash herself in the head with a hammer. How in the WORLD can she ever expect people to respect her, love her, even forgive her if she won't do any of those things for herself? How can you ever expect your daughter to stop treating you so poorly when you treat yourself in the same way?

 

People f*ck up. It HAPPENS. I always find it interesting when holier than thou types descend from the heights of the pedestal they've placed themselves on to offer the lowly underlings advice. I don't think "love addiction" is half the reason why people stay in dysfunctional relationships. It's so easy to toss that kind of phraseology around and ignore the root of the problem.

 

What you DO need to do Vivian is accept culpability. You can't be that sorry, if you're still contacting the guy. Obviously you weren't quite as ready as you told everyone (and yourself) to let go of the affair and begin anew.

 

So what do you do now? I suppose be as supportive as you can. Please, whatever you do don't grovel to your husband. He has responsibility in this situation too. He had an affair that DEVASTATED you. Why the heck are you being so hard on yourself?

 

 

I didn't realize it but he never broke off communication with her. They talked till he got another job that wouldn't allow him to communicate with each other, in other words, they talked all through our early marriage, through my pregnancy and until my daugher was 2.

 

11 years past supposedly without communication. She found him on our churches website (he's a minister) and e-mailed him. They started talking again for the next 2 years. She even sent my daughter a birthday card and told my hubby how much she wished that was her child with him. The grass got greener and greener for both of them, she was in her 4th marriage (supposedly ALL of them cheated on her) and had 4 kids. She happened to live in a place where he had to take a business trip so they met up and had sex.

Apparently they renewed their romance and wanted to be together. The affair lasted for 5 months, he went one more time to her state and they had sex again. Apparently from the e-mails I read, they were in love (it had always been meant to be) and were going to marry.

 

When he told me about the affair, we agreed not to divorce right away and I agreed even to see about taking him back but he needed to end the affair soon. I didn't give him a time frame because I thought it should run it's course....

Well, it did, she separated from her hubby (who was very, very well off) and my hubby was separated from me. They could communicate all day and night and even try to meet each other.....well.....once everything was out of the way, the intense interest of "what might have been" started going away and they started getting on each other's nerves.....the grass was getting dull.....

 

The only thing I see here is you failing to admit to yourself that your marriage has been over LONG before you ever had your affair. You need to not forget about this above post you made.

[kiababy]

Viv - I read your post only, didn't go on to read the other responses so if I say something already said before my post......too bad, people. Here's what I want to say: you and I have 'chatted' off this forum, you know I stayed in a bad marriage for too long too. I know it's a helpless feeling, not knowing how to make a bad relationship work, feeling like crap and not being able to see your way out because you're deep in the situation and you can SEE NO WAY OUT. Like you, I had a teenage daughter to deal with when my marriage fell apart, and there is no instruction book on how to deal with an angry teenage daughter who thinks everything is your fault anyway!!!!!

 

Doesn't matter what you tell her, she's going to react the same way so just say it: dad and I are not able to work out our problems, so in order to eventually find happiness and peace for all of us IN THE FUTURE - we're separating. This is absolutely not your fault, sometimes adults just can't fix their problems.

 

Want to know what I actually said to my own daughter Viv? "D*** and I are finally splitting up.." and she said 'Yaaaaaaaaa' and jumped around because she couldn't stand the fighting anymore. Telling my sons - who were 4 and 7 at the time was another story. Because the failed marriage was ALL MY FAULT, according to my ex, I had to tell them and he took every opportunity to let them know that I was destroying the family.

 

Well fast forward to 7 years later: the boys survived, my daughter survived (barely - due to other issues), and I survived. Everybody is doing fine, I'm happy, and I know the right decision was made. I do not believe in frivolous divorce, but some people were just not meant to be together.

 

It takes a long time to get your self-esteem back - took me years, and considering my situation (still ongoing), I've only got half of it back Write me Viv, I may not have a lot of advice to give anyone anymore, but I can still offer my shoulder to cry on - take care sweetie. K

[VivianLee]

Kia! I wondered where you had been! I hope you are doing well!! I've missed you on here (as I'm sure others have also)...

 

Thanks for your words....I appreciate them so much! I've still got your Yahoo name so if that name is still correct, I'll look for you on.....

 

Mr Spock....again, you may be right about some things but I disagree with what you consider a weakness. I have done wrong and I should feel badly and I should want to make it up to my family. If I can't or they won't let me, then I've done all I could do. You mentioned holier than thous and pedestals, I don't recall ever being that way or climbing on a single pedestal.....

 

The thing is, I truly love my husband, despite it all, I love the man and if I can have a good marriage with him till we grow old, I'd like to pursue that if he doesn't want to try or gives the tiniest of resistance, I won't go back. I won't beg or be a doormat but I will be willing to work it out TOGETHER.

 

My daughter and I talked today and we are doing well. I know setbacks will happen.....

 

I am getting set for the fact that I may not be married for long. I won't die, I'll make it and so will he and so will my daughter. I hope it doesn't come to that but if that is all we do then that's all we can do...I will have more rebuilding than he, I will have to make new friends, find another church, live somewhere else and just have another life almost 180 from what I had before but I will just look at it as an adventure...either way my life goes...it will be a ride!!

[kiababy]

That's the strongest I've ever heard you Viv! I'm happy you and your daughter were able to actually talk. If it does happen, you will all be o.k. I had to do exactly what you mentioned: rebuild, and make all new friends. Unfortunately I stopped going to religious services.....but my sons are still having their weekly bible study so I feel good about that

 

I'm still 'involved' with MM, although I haven't seen him since September so now it's more of an affair of the heart - but we still talk all the time and you know, he's still claiming he'll never leave me....etc. But, I'm seeing a single guy right now so I'm pretty happy Eventually things work themselves out - and yes, they know about each other.

[Leikela]

Vivian, I want to express to you that you have a lot of courage. You know you'll make it through this and that's great. I know you will. Times like these are always hard though but the end result is a stronger person.

 

You said you wanted to try and works things about because you LOVE your husband. Isn't that why you stayed after he cheated on you? Isn't that why you've tried to make your marriage work before?

 

What I am getting at is this: Love is not enough. It takes more then love to make a marriage work. I won't get into what you need for a good marriage, but what you really need to do if there is any hope for your marriage is marriage counseling. If your husband decides to take you back, then you both deperately need counseling. You need direction because loving eachother in the past wasn't enough and it won't be now.

 

You are both terribly broken and I'm afraid love will not come to the rescue. Maybe you would even consider starting therapy for yourself now. One thing you need to come to a realization of is when to throw the towel in. You'll always love him so you can't base your decision on love. I am sure he loves you very much too but maybe he has reached his breaking point and will decide in his heart that it's time to leave for good. Counseling will help you realize many things about yourself, how to heal, and also when to stay and when NOT to stay.

 

You have a long road ahead of you Vivian and I wish you well.

[Ladyjane14]

My daughter and I talked today and we are doing well. I know setbacks will happen.....

 

Glad to hear that things are better between you and Daughter. I know you want to be supportive and loving because you feel that you've disappointed her.

 

While, it's great to want to reassure her, don't forget that you're still her Mama. So, don't take a bunch of sass off her.

 

I grew up in the South too. And my Mama made some parenting mistakes that make you look like June Cleaver! But I knew when I was speaking to her that if I didn't keep a civil tongue behind my teeth she might not let me keep it. (j/k, but you get the drift )

 

You do her a disservice if you let her get away with disrespect. Life is full of disappointments. People have learn to deal with negative feelings in a healthy, constructive way. And they ought to learn that at home.

 

YOUR relationship with YOUR husband is YOUR business. So, it's fine to help her understand, but you don't have to take any guff off of her.

 

So, try not to overcompensate. It's a tough ole' world out there! It's best if she has guidance from you in how to deal with it.

 

Ask Husband to get on board if the situation gets out of hand. It's in her best interest.

[Mr Spock]

I disagree to a point Vivian. You've done the lesser wrong here. Your husband destroyed your marriage first. You just kind of flushed the destroyed peices down the toilet. After all the crap he put you through what sane person wouldn't fall out of like with him? And pretty much that's what happened.

 

 

Please remember, that for all your supposed wrongs, no one, not even your daughter or husband has the right to treat you like a peice of sh*t. No matter HOW angry she is. It's not her marriage, and you won't stop being her mother and he won't stop being her father.

 

And I wasn't talking about you in reference to a pedestal. You obviously haven't put yourself on one, though it might not hurt to try it out.

 

 

Good points here. Love isn't enough. I love my shoes, but if they fail me and they're beyond repair they get chucked out. Don't you think you DESERVE a relationship where you're not cheated on, and you don't feel like cheating on him? Because that's not what you have. And apparently haven't, for quite some time.

[johan]

I haven't read all the history on this, so forgive me if I miss the mark.

 

Is Spock right about this?:

 

He cheated on you and you forgave him and re-focussed on your goal of keeping your marriage together "forever".

 

You get into an emotional relationship with someone, apparently naively, because you keep calling it an addiction, and he's not capable of either trying or forgiving.

 

If she is, then here's my point of view:

It doesn't surprise me that you had a little fling. It doesn't surprise me that you can't even acknowledge it for what it was, because you obviously put undue pressure on yourself to do no wrong. You are unwilling to take credit for your actions and you're too willing to listen to criticism. The anger that you feel at yourself, the blame that you're taking on yourself is totally misplaced. It belongs on him. He mistreated you twice and you aren't sticking up for yourself. Not only will this ruin any chance of a future with him, but it will get in the way of relationships to come.

 

I've done this in the past. I assumed ALL of the blame for a breakup, and it was disabling for a long time. Not to mention that all the anger I actually felt for that person was still simmering under the surface for my future sweethearts to suffer through. I would have been better off if 1) I could have expressed that anger evenly and healthily throughout the relationship, or 2) I could have put it where it belonged soon after the relationship ended.

 

I thank God for the girl I have now, who let me vent it, who made it safe for me to express it. Good luck!

[Debster]

Viv,

 

I'm sorry to hear about this. However, I got to admit, I agree with Spock and johan on a lot of points.

Your daughter is acting very spoiled. She probably senses that you are in a weak state and is taking big advantage of it. Your husband is a complete idiot for telling your daughter about his affair - let alone before telling you. I think right now that yes, you are hurting, but that soon you will realize that it is good to be out of the situation. Remove yourself from the drama, guilt and blame you've been living under. I suggest a mini-break to reknew your self-confidence and give yourself time to heal. When you come back you should have the strength to tell your daughter to treat you with respect and tell your husband that he is a poor excuse for a minister. I mean... my god to have an affair, lie about the ongoing affair and tell his daughter about it, let alone acting like it is all your fault --- this man is going to have a lot to talk about when he meets his maker, IMO.

[VivianLee]

You all have given me great advice and I'm listening to it all!! I have been at my home for the past 2 days (hubby staying with friends) and although I miss "the house" it's not home anymore.....it's been "like home" being with my daughter here and doing all the things I usually do (clean house and I helped her have a party last night) but knowing that my things are packed and that I have to leave when he heads home, it's not like I belong anymore. But that's okay for some reason...I'll live...

 

My goals....to get a job and to move out of my parent's. I would LOVE to have a place of my own. I'd really feel as if I've accomplished something plus I'd feel like I had a home. I think I will be able to do this and hopefully soon. I still dread Christmas....it was one of our best times as a family but....I don't know...

 

Thanks for the advice and help

[Owl]

Hey Viv-

 

Hope things are going well for you. Hadn't seen an update in a bit, so thought I'd post a reply to see if you were still out there.