Codepencency & Counterdependency

[Zapbasket]

Does anyone know much about this term, "Counterdependency"?

 

My therapist, who is seeing both my recent ex and me, separately, said that in the relationship I was codependent and he was counterdependent. If this is true, it explains a lot about our dynamic...but I want to understand more about it.

 

Does anybody recommend a book on this subject? Can both codependents AND counterdependents change?

 

It seems that counterdependents would be less likely to achieve significant change, since they have so many barriers against being honest with themselves about their vulnerabilities.

 

My therapist also said that my ex was "constitutionally incapable" of loving, so I'm trying to understand if what he's really saying is that my ex will never really be able to change. Which would mean that the only thing I can do is to work on myself so that I'm not susceptible to entering a relationship with someone like this again.

[Betterthanthis13]

I have not heard that term but I'm sure there is a book about it. I have heard that the opposite of codependent is not independent but interdependent. But I don't think that's what you are talking about.

[2sunny]

Is your H so cold and unfeeling that he shows little emotion or attachment to you?

 

 

What can you change about you to become more healthy, balanced?

 

Have you read codependent no more by Beattie?

 

It's always best to focus the change for you - the way you participate - when you change - other things change as well.

 

Best not to focus on an ex - best to focus on changing you.

Edited September 5, 2013 by 2sunny

[knitwit]

If I recall correctly, I read about counter-dependency in a book by Robert Burney,The Dance of the Wounded Souls. It's been a long time since I've read it though.

[Silly_Girl]

You're right. He's less likely to change. And your place in the dynamic would have also have been influenced by his...

 

So the focus is on restoring your equilibrium and tooling you up so that you don't find yourself back here. It's so very doable. Good luck!

[Zapbasket]

You're right. He's less likely to change. And your place in the dynamic would have also have been influenced by his...

 

Not disagreeing with you; just want to understand better....

 

But...if he's "constitutionally incapable" and a therapist deemed him to be so, then why would the therapist continue to treat such a person?

[Zapbasket]

Is your H so cold and unfeeling that he shows little emotion or attachment to you?

 

It's not so cut and dry; hence, why the whole dynamic was so confusing and why it's so hard to find my part in it separate from what he blamed me for.

 

What can you change about you to become more healthy, balanced?

 

A great many things, evidently.

 

Have you read codependent no more by Beattie?

 

No. Is it good? Do you recommend it or is there a better book?

 

It's always best to focus the change for you - the way you participate - when you change - other things change as well.

 

Best not to focus on an ex - best to focus on changing you.

 

I agree. I just was in such a confused state for so long, I want to try to separate out the strands of our dynamics. What was I dealing with, in dealing with him? What do I ultimately WANT to deal with? What about me kept me in the relationship and what were good, accurate instincts I had about the relationship versus fears disguised as instincts that distorted what was going on?

 

If a therapist's opinion is that someone is "constitutionally incapable" of loving, then that's kind-of saying I was loving on a brick wall and hoping the brick would crumble at last and let some love through for me to bask in. Was I loving a brick wall, or was I loving a flawed human being where, perhaps, had we been better in touch with our inner dynamics, we might have more frequently behaved in ways that nurtured our ability--an ability we both had?--to give and receive love?

 

So many questions, and these labels are clarifying as much as they are confusing.

[Silly_Girl]

Not disagreeing with you; just want to understand better....

 

But...if he's "constitutionally incapable" and a therapist deemed him to be so, then why would the therapist continue to treat such a person?

 

The cynic in me says £££...

 

However, if he wants to understand more, and the therapist can enlighten him, it doesn't seem so weird they would continue?

 

Are you hoping to hear that he can/will change?

[Grumpybutfun]

Counter dependency in itself is a major red flag for a relationship as it is refusal to attach. Are you trying to get back together with him? Is your ex wanting to get back together? Someone who is counter dependent wouldn't work really hard at that so you might be better off working on yourself and moving forward in your own life.

Good luck,

Grumps

[Zapbasket]

Are you hoping to hear that he can/will change?

 

Mixed. Part of me hopes to hear he can change, because then it justifies my 3.5-year investment in him and in the relationship. It also makes my romantic fantasy of deep growth and change on both our parts leading to a reconciliation where the relationship is healthy and good. We did (and do) love each other, despite the tremendous difficulties.

 

And part of me hopes to hear that change is impossible, that he will always be counterdependent, that he will have troubles forevermore. I don't know why I'd hope that, really. Maybe because then it justifies the relationship not working out in a way that reduces my role in it to simply picking the wrong guy and staying with him too long.

[Zapbasket]

Counter dependency in itself is a major red flag for a relationship as it is refusal to attach. Are you trying to get back together with him? Is your ex wanting to get back together? Someone who is counter dependent wouldn't work really hard at that so you might be better off working on yourself and moving forward in your own life.

Good luck,

Grumps

 

I don't know what I want. I guess right now I want to understand my role more. I want to grow into a stronger person in relationships so that I won't keep making the same mistakes and finding myself always in a morass of relational unhappiness. I want to find my way to a healthy relationship where we can love each other freely and fully, communicate when it counts most, and most of all just enjoy life side by side.

 

Of course, I wish I could have had / have that with my ex. That's a big unknown, what the future could bring....

[2sunny]

Yes it's a good book. Melody Beattie wrote it - it should give you some insight.

 

Why are you wanting to waste time trying harder with a person who can't attach feelings? That would suck balls!

 

You can change things FOR YOURSELF by choosing opposite of what you normally would choose.

 

Contrary action always brings change and new hope!

 

I always ask myself "how can I do things differently than before" - that helps me have different results automatically.

[sunshinegirl]

Mixed. Part of me hopes to hear he can change, because then it justifies my 3.5-year investment in him and in the relationship. It also makes my romantic fantasy of deep growth and change on both our parts leading to a reconciliation where the relationship is healthy and good. We did (and do) love each other, despite the tremendous difficulties.

 

I get that this is part of the bargaining stage of grief, but... NO NO NOO NOOO NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

You wasted 3.5 years on this guy -- don't even CONTEMPLATE throwing more of your precious time and self on someone who will not fundamentally change.

 

You have to trust me on this. Every *****ty ex I've had is exactly the same today as he was when I was dating him. My gay ex is still an insensitive jerk; and my 2008 ex, now remarried, is reportedly still just as closed off as ever (I've heard that the new wife complains about how not-nice he is).

 

You have to take the long view, here, and believe that (1) he's not gonna really, deeply change (seriously - he's not); (2) no other woman is going to be able to unlock him or figure out his puzzle pieces in a way you couldn't (and therefore reap the rewards instead of you); (3) even if/when he finds someone else and it looks like it fits from afar, all that means is that her issues "fit" with his issues - and hallelujah for them! You're still free of this albatross of a relationship.

 

You're still bargaining - playing the "what if" and "I wish" game. Some of this is inevitable - I do remember doing it myself - but ultimately it's a dead end, and the more time you spend trying to analyze HIM instead of YOURSELF, the longer you will delay your healing and moving on.

 

Have you read Women Who Love Too Much yet?

[Zapbasket]

I get that this is part of the bargaining stage of grief, but... NO NO NOO NOOO NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

You wasted 3.5 years on this guy -- don't even CONTEMPLATE throwing more of your precious time and self on someone who will not fundamentally change.

 

You have to trust me on this. Every *****ty ex I've had is exactly the same today as he was when I was dating him. My gay ex is still an insensitive jerk; and my 2008 ex, now remarried, is reportedly still just as closed off as ever (I've heard that the new wife complains about how not-nice he is).

 

You have to take the long view, here, and believe that (1) he's not gonna really, deeply change (seriously - he's not); (2) no other woman is going to be able to unlock him or figure out his puzzle pieces in a way you couldn't (and therefore reap the rewards instead of you); (3) even if/when he finds someone else and it looks like it fits from afar, all that means is that her issues "fit" with his issues - and hallelujah for them! You're still free of this albatross of a relationship.

 

You're still bargaining - playing the "what if" and "I wish" game. Some of this is inevitable - I do remember doing it myself - but ultimately it's a dead end, and the more time you spend trying to analyze HIM instead of YOURSELF, the longer you will delay your healing and moving on.

 

Have you read Women Who Love Too Much yet?

 

I get that this is part of the bargaining stage of grief, but... NO NO NOO NOOO NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

You wasted 3.5 years on this guy -- don't even CONTEMPLATE throwing more of your precious time and self on someone who will not fundamentally change.

 

You have to trust me on this. Every *****ty ex I've had is exactly the same today as he was when I was dating him. My gay ex is still an insensitive jerk; and my 2008 ex, now remarried, is reportedly still just as closed off as ever (I've heard that the new wife complains about how not-nice he is).

 

You have to take the long view, here, and believe that (1) he's not gonna really, deeply change (seriously - he's not); (2) no other woman is going to be able to unlock him or figure out his puzzle pieces in a way you couldn't (and therefore reap the rewards instead of you); (3) even if/when he finds someone else and it looks like it fits from afar, all that means is that her issues "fit" with his issues - and hallelujah for them! You're still free of this albatross of a relationship.

 

You're still bargaining - playing the "what if" and "I wish" game. Some of this is inevitable - I do remember doing it myself - but ultimately it's a dead end, and the more time you spend trying to analyze HIM instead of YOURSELF, the longer you will delay your healing and moving on.

 

Have you read Women Who Love Too Much yet?

 

Thanks SSG; I need to hear this. Over and over because this is my weakness. I can relate to what you're saying because my previous two exes are still the same. Neither is married or engaged; neither has been in the nearly 7 years since the break-up with Ex #1 and 4 years since Ex #2; both are still, from what I have heard, exactly the same in every respect. So why would I think K would be any different?

 

Well...because he's in therapy? That's a step neither of my other exes ever took. And he *is* more communicative than the other two, though perhaps with deeper trust issues. I just don't know. I do know that I will not reach out to him, and since he blames me so much and has distorted so much about our relationship, I would be surprised if he reaches out to me. Though my mother thinks he will.

 

I do know that I feel uncomfortable with the story I have laid out about my love life: that three times in a row, I have chosen bad partners. That this is the primary thing "wrong" with me and I need to examine the roots of that, i.e., why my man-picker is broken. But then I ask myself: How was I in the relationship? Was I this great partner that these guys could not appreciate, but a guy with healthy relationship patterns could? It troubled me so much that late last night I made a list of all the behaviors in the relationship with K that I was not proud of. There were a lot of cases of unproductive responses and poor communication on my part.

 

So I think, well, it can't just be one way. If I say that some of my poor behaviors and communication was due to how K acted in the relationship, then isn't that reciprocal?

 

It's just that all along I felt that while sure, I was not perfect, K was a bigger contributor to our problems than I was, with his irritability, need to get under my skin, and excuses for why we could not have so much as a conversation about the future. Many people here and IRL told me the same. But now I'm not sure. What if *I'm* half the problem, too? I mean, was there any way I could have altered my behavior to bring out better behavior in K? I know that I can't turn, as you said once, fundamentally "good" guys into "bad" guys...but it seems if there were things I did that made the situation worse, shouldn't I take a look?

 

I don't know. I am bargaining, I know. I mean, I did invest 3.5 years and it just seems sad that we spent so much time arguing. Was it really that bad, I wonder now. Was it really just US, our compatibility, our dynamics...or was it also in part due to the myriad disappointments in our lives that both of us endured during this time?

 

I don't know, because I've never had a good relationship

 

Women Who Love Too Much: I did read that and saw a lot of myself in the women the author describes. The only thing that didn't seem to apply to me was many women's NEED for the men they were with to be fixer-uppers. I thought with K, for instance, that I was dating someone who knew where he was headed and had a lot going for him.

 

*Sigh* I feel so dumb because I'm so confused

[smoky eyes]

Thanks SSG; I need to hear this. Over and over because this is my weakness. I can relate to what you're saying because my previous two exes are still the same. Neither is married or engaged; neither has been in the nearly 7 years since the break-up with Ex #1 and 4 years since Ex #2; both are still, from what I have heard, exactly the same in every respect. So why would I think K would be any different?

 

Well...because he's in therapy? That's a step neither of my other exes ever took. And he *is* more communicative than the other two, though perhaps with deeper trust issues. I just don't know. I do know that I will not reach out to him, and since he blames me so much and has distorted so much about our relationship, I would be surprised if he reaches out to me. Though my mother thinks he will.

 

I do know that I feel uncomfortable with the story I have laid out about my love life: that three times in a row, I have chosen bad partners. That this is the primary thing "wrong" with me and I need to examine the roots of that, i.e., why my man-picker is broken. But then I ask myself: How was I in the relationship? Was I this great partner that these guys could not appreciate, but a guy with healthy relationship patterns could? It troubled me so much that late last night I made a list of all the behaviors in the relationship with K that I was not proud of. There were a lot of cases of unproductive responses and poor communication on my part.

 

So I think, well, it can't just be one way. If I say that some of my poor behaviors and communication was due to how K acted in the relationship, then isn't that reciprocal?

 

It's just that all along I felt that while sure, I was not perfect, K was a bigger contributor to our problems than I was, with his irritability, need to get under my skin, and excuses for why we could not have so much as a conversation about the future. Many people here and IRL told me the same. But now I'm not sure. What if *I'm* half the problem, too? I mean, was there any way I could have altered my behavior to bring out better behavior in K? I know that I can't turn, as you said once, fundamentally "good" guys into "bad" guys...but it seems if there were things I did that made the situation worse, shouldn't I take a look?

 

I don't know. I am bargaining, I know. I mean, I did invest 3.5 years and it just seems sad that we spent so much time arguing. Was it really that bad, I wonder now. Was it really just US, our compatibility, our dynamics...or was it also in part due to the myriad disappointments in our lives that both of us endured during this time?

 

I don't know, because I've never had a good relationship

 

Women Who Love Too Much: I did read that and saw a lot of myself in the women the author describes. The only thing that didn't seem to apply to me was many women's NEED for the men they were with to be fixer-uppers. I thought with K, for instance, that I was dating someone who knew where he was headed and had a lot going for him.

 

*Sigh* I feel so dumb because I'm so confused

 

I think you're being a bit hard on yourself about picking the wrong men all the time. I expect that all your exes have a lot of redeeming features as people, but that they didn't fit well with you in a relationship context. I'm sure you made mistakes in communication, but with the right partner, those mistakes probably wouldn't have mattered. I have a boyfriend, and had an ex, and I'm the same person and say the same stupid things, but with the ex it always led to conflict and with the current one it doesn't.

 

It's always good to work on yourself and identify areas in relationships where maybe you should change your behaviour but the fact that you're not perfect does not mean your broken or that you can't have a perfectly healthy relationship with someone.

 

I second the motion above: I've read enough of your threads to say DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT GOING BACK TO THIS GUY!

[sunshinegirl]

Women Who Love Too Much: I did read that and saw a lot of myself in the women the author describes. The only thing that didn't seem to apply to me was many women's NEED for the men they were with to be fixer-uppers. I thought with K, for instance, that I was dating someone who knew where he was headed and had a lot going for him.

 

*Sigh* I feel so dumb because I'm so confused

 

You and I would never pick an obvious fixer-upper -- we know enough to avoid the addicts, unemployed, and the other obvious problem men.

 

In my case, my habit was to pick men with emotional problems - distance of one kind or another - and sometimes those issues weren't so obvious at first glance. So they looked great on paper (good looking, graduate school degrees, rising in their professions, etc) but they all had intimacy issues, which played directly into my FOO dynamics.

 

With years' worth of threads from you about K, it's actually clear that you knew pretty early on that he was aimless (professionally) and had no vision for his future. Sure, we start dating people not really knowing this kind of thing, but the kicker is that you (and I) have habits of staying in a relationship after it's become clear that the guy has issues that are incompatible with our needs and wants. Hence, they are "fixer-uppers" that we cling to in a truly vain hope that they will change, and in so doing demonstrate their commitment and love, and validate our own worth (arguably in a way we never got from other important men in our lives).

Edited September 8, 2013 by sunshinegirl

[Zapbasket]

 

With years' worth of threads from you about K, it's actually clear that you knew pretty early on that he was aimless (professionally) and had no vision for his future. Sure, we start dating people not really knowing this kind of thing, but the kicker is that you (and I) have habits of staying in a relationship after it's become clear that the guy has issues that are incompatible with our needs and wants. Hence, they are "fixer-uppers" that we cling to in a truly vain hope that they will change, and in so doing demonstrate their commitment and love, and validate our own worth (arguably in a way we never got from other important men in our lives).

 

Yes. And as I am increasingly realizing, evidently some part of me didn't value myself enough to make a DECISION based on what my gut and my concrete observations told me I already knew. It chagrins me to no end that everything I know now about K's ability to give me what I was looking for in a relationship, I knew in the first few months of the relationship. I could have saved myself this heartache I'm experiencing now by decisively bowing out THREE years ago. I took on far more of my share of the work to keep the relationship going; I tried desperately to keep it on track; and in the end, there is no recognition, acknowledgement, or reciprocation for my efforts. To have that lack stare me in the face just serves to underscore how pointless it is to do work for two in hopes doing so will pave the way for more commitment and better behavior from the other person.

 

There's this one point that keeps on bothering me. Many of you have insisted that K won't fundamentally change. I have this awful, sinking feeling that thanks to the therapy he started just a couple of months ago, he WILL change...and some other woman will reap the rewards. Is it really not possible for someone with the kind of issues he has to fundamentally change? I care about this because IF he changes AND doesn't reach out to me as a result, then it negates yet further the time I spent in this relationship.

[sunshinegirl]

I said/feared the same thing. Is it possible he'll change in all the ways you would need him to in order for him to be the right/best/ideal partner for you? Sure. Theoretically it's possible. Is he likely to? No.

 

If you want a fun exercise, list out ALL the ways he would need to change in order to be the right man for you. Everything, big or small.

 

Now look at that list.

 

Now think about how hard change of any kind is for people, when it comes to deeply held beliefs, mindsets, and habits.

 

Now think about how long it would take him to make the change you want on ONE of those issues. Now figure out how long it would take him to change ALL of them.

 

Now think about the fact that he's in therapy to work on whatever he wants to work on. Which may or may not correspond to the things YOU want him to work on.

 

So: basically, you have no idea what he's working on, how long it will take, what he will be like on the other end, and whether he will still want you (never mind whether you would still want him).

 

You have two choices:

1. Wait around (quite likely for years) so that you might one day possibly perhaps (but no guarantee!) get to reap the reward of your longsuffering patience with this ugly duckling of a man (though you don't actually know what he's going to become - a swan? or just an older, slightly-less-ugly duckling?);
   
2. Grieve the fact that another woman WILL "reap the rewards" of whatever the ugly duckling learns from this experience.
   

 

I vote for #2. It's much less painful than #1.

[Silly_Girl]

I felt the same about the investment and someone else getting the relationship *I* was owed.

 

It's a hell of a risk to take. I personally don't think it's worth it. Yes, if he'd changed I'd have 'made it work' but honestly, there would always have been that shadow hanging over. If you had bad patches things could easily revert to the roles you had previously. You would always feel like you 'forced' him and he might feel resentful that you 'won'. If you square it off against meeting someone who treats you well and you two respect one another - well, there's just no contest.

 

My ex claimed to have been reformed. It bugged me a tiny bit but, whatever. Then his new wife of 2 years contacted me asking for money, telling me what a monster he is. So everything is as you'd expect then

[Zapbasket]

Thanks so much for the wise points of view, SSG and SG.

 

I think there's no going back.

 

It's beginning to dawn on me that bottom line? I was in an abusive relationship. Period. And his family, especially his mother, while perhaps mostly well-intentioned, enabled him by making excuses for him. His mother's overtures to me over the years were mostly conversations intended to keep me "in line," thinking I was at least 1/2 responsible for the troubles in the relationship and that I needed to "not make such a big deal" out of K's unsavory behaviors.

 

I intend to keep a firm distance from K and his mother especially, and others associated with them as much as possible, for as long as possible.

 

It just dawned on me. "Face it," I said aloud to myself while driving, "it was an abusive relationship through and through."

 

And then the sadness, the awful sense of self-betrayal, at recognizing that I made excuse after excuse for the behavior I so detested even while my EVERY instinct was telling me this relationship was no good and to get out.

 

I mean, how can a person do that to themselves? I'm so ashamed, because as I look back over my last three relationships, most recent included, there is a lacking-ness to every one of them, a lack I filled with over-giving, over-effort, and some kind of anxious, "oh poor wounded you" passion I thought was love.

 

It's sickening, it really is . I hope this is the dark truth period before beginning to change my behaviors so that I don't end up in this situation again.

[hastoloverush]

Aha! Constitutionally incapable? Therapist probably does not want to call it, as such, but sounds like the ex just may be a narcissist. Look that up and you will be reading on the net for the next 6 months. (lol).

See yourself. See the past and how it may affect today. Those who have suffered abuse are more likely to accept it again.

If he is truly sincere about getting help to change-because he is sick of his own life-then therapy MAY help. It only takes about 10 years to turn a narcissist into a human. Do you have that to give? If so, go back to him. If not, work on yourself.

(Oh don't think me wise....just well read. Putting the ideas into motion to make permanent changes in my life-well it's always a work in progress.

Best wishes

[Zapbasket]

Aha! Constitutionally incapable? Therapist probably does not want to call it, as such, but sounds like the ex just may be a narcissist. Look that up and you will be reading on the net for the next 6 months. (lol).

 

My ex before this one absolutely was a narcissist. This most recent ex, my therapist says he doesn't get a narcissistic vibe from him (he's my ex's therapist, too). My understanding is that counterdependency is characterized by certain narcissistic tendencies, but not enough to be categorized as NPD.

 

But in the session I had with my therapist after the one where he said my ex was constitutionally incapable of intimacy, he reiterated that real change was unlikely, or only, as you say, after a long, long time.

 

See yourself. See the past and how it may affect today. Those who have suffered abuse are more likely to accept it again.

 

Yes, I'm seeing how I'm replaying some abuses from my past in my adult relationships. I didn't see the pattern until this relationship. Hopefully I can find my way out of this pattern. I'm reading some books that I hope will help me reclaim myself (Martha Beck's Steering by Starlight and The Courage to Be Yourself: A Woman's Guide to Emotional Strength and Self-Esteem by Sue Patton Thuole, as well as The Emotionally Abusive Relationship by Beverly Engel. Any other books you recommend?

 

Best wishes

Thanks.

[Zapbasket]

I feel myself moving around in the stages of grief, forward, backward, but I trust that incrementally the prevailing movement is forward. I'm doing things for myself, reaching out, staying active, letting myself cry when I need to, trying new things.

 

On Friday, it will have been exactly four weeks. It feels like ages. Aside from a lengthy conversation with his mom at my house two weeks ago, where we both left with the understanding that it's best not to have contact with a while so that I (and to an extent her, too) can deal with my feelings), there has been no contact. There has been no contact or sighting between K and me since August 23.

 

Now I'm feeling like: were all the problems really such a big deal? Yes, he could be irritable and negative, and it bothered me...but now it doesn't seem like it could have been so bad. I read through my old threads on the relationship in an effort to remind myself how frustrated I became, but now I question it. I did, and do, truly love him, for all his talents and dorky weirdness that suits me, for his good heart. Was my frustration at his irritability and negative attitude about where his life was really worth this having ended?

 

I know on another level that it needed to end because I wanted the relationship to move forward and he could not have conversations about the future that were necessary for that to happen and we couldn't see eye to eye on that. He came up with excuses and also would say, "How can we talk about the future when we have problems in the relationship?" And my response was, "Part of the problems in our relationship stem from not having any conversations about the future." We were never able to agree.

 

But now I wonder: did I make mountains out of molehills? Was it really so bad? Is it really "right" that we are over? I try to get clarity on this but then doubt creeps in the more I miss having him in my life.

 

And I'm no longer sure about this "constitutionally incapable" thing. Aren't we all, at certain points in our lives, "constitutionally incapable" of things until we develop the inner resources to become capable? When I was twenty, for instance, I had nowhere near matured enough to be able to marry someone. I was "constitutionally incapable" of marriage at that juncture. But as I grew in life, and gained insight, and understood certain things about myself, I became someone who while imperfect is capable of being open in the way that is conducive to a marriage.

 

I just found out that the ex who brought me to LS in 2007 got married this past weekend. I don't think that when we were dating he was ready to marry anyone; he wasn't only not ready to marry me. He had serious communication issues and probably still does to some degree, but perhaps his wife is able to work with it in a way I was not, and also even with the same issues he has no doubt matured as a person and has developed other things that might make the communication issues less glaring.

 

So isn't that true of my most recent ex, as well? That if he's "constitutionally incapable" now, he'll become capable later on? And if so, should I have tried throughout our relationship to be more tolerant of his irritability and negativity?

 

Why does this stuff confuse me so much? :/

Edited September 18, 2013 by GreenCove

[sunshinegirl]

Oh honey.

 

I know this is you grappling with everything, bargaining, not-accepting, wishing, hoping, and second-guessing... but please don't act on any of these thoughts.

 

You are deeply discounting the deep angst, anxiety, anger, and frustration you felt for three and a half years. This is, in effect, another side of you not trusting your gut, your feelings, or your needs. This is you bargaining your way back into a deeply unsatisfying relationship, because it had "crumbs" of goodness that you are desperate to cling to.

 

And the reason you're desperate to cling to it is because you haven't yet experienced a truly good, truly healthy, mutually giving, mutually sustaining relationship.

 

The answer isn't to cling to the rotting, hollow half-log bobbing up and down in the ocean, within your reach. The answer is to swim to the distant shoreline, where you'll have firm ground underneath you and a forest of mature, strong trees growing tall all around you.

[Zapbasket]

Oh honey.

 

I know this is you grappling with everything, bargaining, not-accepting, wishing, hoping, and second-guessing... but please don't act on any of these thoughts.

 

You are deeply discounting the deep angst, anxiety, anger, and frustration you felt for three and a half years. This is, in effect, another side of you not trusting your gut, your feelings, or your needs. This is you bargaining your way back into a deeply unsatisfying relationship, because it had "crumbs" of goodness that you are desperate to cling to.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I needed to hear this. I'm trying to remind myself of these things and I may need to create something concrete to serve as a visual reminder, to keep me from slipping.

 

And the reason you're desperate to cling to it is because you haven't yet experienced a truly good, truly healthy, mutually giving, mutually sustaining relationship.

 

That's exactly what I've been discussing with my therapist. How I keep ending up in relationships (plus it sometimes effects me professionally and in other kinds of relationships) where I do most of the work, take the bulk of the blame, etc. And how it repeats an experience from my childhood and adolescence. We're working on building a picture of a healthy relationship, and what appropriate responses are to unhealthy behavior. It's a full-on retraining. Crazy how you think you know your psychological hang-ups, and then you discover a whole new can of dysfunctional worms writhing around in the brain bowels.

 

The answer isn't to cling to the rotting, hollow half-log bobbing up and down in the ocean, within your reach. The answer is to swim to the distant shoreline, where you'll have firm ground underneath you and a forest of mature, strong trees growing tall all around you.

 

You are awesome, SSG. This analogy made my laugh out loud at my desk, perhaps because of the subtly phallic suggestion in the bobbing half-log. :laugh:Thanks for being such a good, clear head against my muddle as I work through this. (((hugs)))