Crossroads - my wife is unhappy

[Dazedand]

My marriage is at a crossroads and this is something I need to vent and hopefully get an outside perspective on. Quick overview on us; we met in summer of 2006, moved in together within a few months of meeting. Got married in 2009 and as of now have a 2 yr old and 6 month old baby. I am 30 and she is 28. In the beginning of our relationship things were like a passionate rollercoaster - we both had our issues and had a difficult communicating in a positive way towards each other, and truth be told, she had a lot of growing up to do. Over the years we've both gained a lot of wisdom from being together so things are stable, but some recent turn of events have things seemingly turning south.

 

 

A bit about me - I am a reasonably intelligent guy and after being very insecure up until the end of high school I came out of shell with what may an over-developed sense of self and confidence. While I can be judgmental, I adamantly strive to be a good person and not to be condescending, something I truly believe I have successfully achieved (I am waiting for someone to quote this and quote how she had growing up to do ). Because of this, once I form an opinion or take a course of action it can be difficult to sway me if not presented to me in a way that can add to my decision making process. I admit, that I can be difficult to live with, but I do not force my beliefs/decision on others and do not expect them to conform (I wouldn't even want that - I think everyone should make decisions on their own and not defer responsibility to others for making said decision).

 

 

My wife and I never really had much in common - I thought we did but looking back maybe we really didn't, although this line of thought could be a side-effect of our recent arguments/discussions. What initially attracted me aside from her being drop dead gorgeous, was the intangible connection we had. We could spend hours talking about literally nothing to the meaning of life and enjoy each others company immensely. We had/have he same sense of humor, enjoyed eating/cooking as food was a big passion, and always preferred walking around talking as opposed to using more convenient modes of transportation (sounds silly writing this last one in, but what the hell). We tried dancing for awhile, but it didn't stick (she kept trying to lead!). We tried going running together, but she hated running. I'm sure there are a few more things we tried to initiate to get us to do something together, but nothing off the top of my head. In the end, it was the connection which kept me to her - I've met only a handful of people in my life that I've had such a strong connection with... we didn't need shared physical activities for us to keep interested in each other as we shared the same basic values and outlook on life. Maybe this is me oversimplifying things, but we just worked.

 

 

On occasion we would have bad spells where the old "what are we doing together/we don't have enough in common/etc" type arguments would pop up, but I always seemed able to show her why we were good together and allay her fears. Around 2.5 years ago I started becoming much more spiritual, which has lead to me a wide range of areas which she didn't really get, but tried to be supportive. That would include indulging me when I would speak to her about with the excitement of something new, but it wasn't something she could relate to herself. This segued into looking into alternative media (I hate the label conspiracy theories as it has such a negative connotation) and became pretty engrossed in it as parts of it tied in to my spirituality. This further segued two months ago into veganism. So basically the situation is the person that she married 4 years ago and is in a relationship with for 7 years did a complete 180 in a very short amount of time and she is left reeling and trying to make sense of it all. To give a short comparison of before after the change, the guy she married was patriotic (we don't live in US), a raging carnivore, an agnostic, and "enjoyed life". Nowadays, I am vegan, aware/paranoid (depending on who you ask ) about the reality of this world, deeply spiritual in a non-religious way, and scrutinize many aspects of the life we live and things we do (I still enjoy life for clarification).

 

 

Understandably, she is having a difficult processing everything as not only am I very different person than who she married, we seem to have moved into different directions and she isn't interested in my interests. She bends over backwards to make things comfortable for me (food-wise for example) but she resents having to do so while she does it. When I went vegan she became vegetarian, but it still requires a lot more work to cook vegan dishes for me. We generally both share the cooking, but as she has been home on maternity leave she has been doing most of it lately.

 

 

I made a stupid comment earlier today and what started out as a discussion turned into an minor fight which turned into her letting everything out. She loves me but is unhappy in our relationship, she is not who she used to be, we have nothing in common, I'm a great husband and dad but I'm not the person she married, etc. She isn't blame shifting (i.e. she isn't who she used to be because of me), but I don't really know what to do at this point. In our fight I tried to get specifics out of her what she would want to do differently, or to give examples of things she that she would consider doing things together, but I didn't get much out of her there. I love my wife very much and want her to be happy, but it seems like I am more content with the way things are and she is becoming more and more filled with resentment. I try my best to show her my appreciation and I think I have improved leaps and bounds compared to a few years ago, but the root of the issue leaves me wondering what to do next.

 

 

We went to counseling a few months back for one session and we took a little out of it, but neither of us really liked the counselor. I'd have no problem going back to a different counselor, so may be that will help, but it is such a money sink and I imagine it would take 5 sessions to get to the crux of the matter.

 

As I mentioned earlier, my wife was on maternity leave (until last week) so she this could understandably be partially form being cooped up in the house with our little one, but I'd rather not take the easy way out and blame that as that won't solve anything.

 

 

It's possible I've come across as a narcissistic jerk - I'm really not; it's just very difficult to sum everything up in a few paragraphs. The bottom line is I love my wife and I would happy for some outside perspective on what I can do to make it work. Surely my situation is not unique and I would love to get some insight as talking to myself only gets me so far...

[Mr. Lucky]

The Swiss psychiatrist C.G. Jung said the crisis of the modern age was a crisis of meaning and you seem to have bought into that lock, stock and barrel. I'd spend less time trying to figure it all out and more time actually living and feeling, a position I'm sure your wife finds herself in daily caring for two small children.

 

By immersing yourself in a semi-existential crisis you're missing out on a magical experience that only comes once - a chance to father and mentor your two young children into life and adulthood. That should be your priority.

 

So "narcissistic jerk", probably not. But a little overly self-aware, most likely so. I'd be less about vegan-spiritual-paranoid-awareness and more about emotionally supporting your wife and kids. Remember, you asked ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[2sunny]

Are you helping her with all the duties at home? It's exhausting and never ending with young kids. Cleaning up and laundry is never ending. Help her out.

 

How about you go to the market? You cook the meal you seem to be preferring?

 

And you're right - you aren't the man she thought she married - and she may not like the man you've become. But either way - she's the Mom to your kids and you may as well help her as much as possible because they are your kids too.

 

You worry about counseling being expensive - it's nothing compared to divorcing. What did the counselor say that made you not go back? Your wife may have deemed that as thinking you don't need to invest your time and energy into the M to a healthy place. You CAN get to the "crux of the matter" with any counselor if you tell them exactly what your issues are when you get to the office. No beating around the bush! It helps if you admit HOW YOU PARTICIPATE and are WILLING TO CHANGE!

 

And I agree - stop "thinking so much" about the M and start participating IN IT.

Edited September 6, 2013 by 2sunny

[Els]

OP, given your timelines, it seems like both of you first met when you were in your early 20s?

 

I think it's perfectly normal, for young people to change throughout their 20s, and consequently, there is an inherent challenge in being able to adjust to personal changes as well grow together in the relationship. It's normal for both of your interests to change over time, and it's okay to have separate interests eventually even if you had very similar ones in the beginning IMO. The key lies in HOW you handle the changes.

 

As for the vegan and her being cooped up thing - perhaps take care of the baby sometimes or hire help so your wife can get out at least 1-2 times a week without the baby? That can make a huge difference. Also if she is resenting cooking you vegan meals on a daily basis when she is not vegan and you were not vegan to begin with, then you could compromise by simply handling the preparation of your own meals by yourself? Preparing two different types of meals AND taking care of a newborn in addition to doing all the work around the house must be very tough on her.

[Mint Sauce]

I 2nd Mr. Lucky's respons, though I'm more worried about your mental fortitude. IMO, well-grounded people are less volatile in such fundamental views on life.

 

I'll share a telling anecdote: I remember discussing the existence of "free will" with some of my friends when we were in our early twenties. No matter which way we approached it, we came to the conclusion that it cannot exist. For three of us, that was interesting, but we went back into the bar to choose our next beer, fully convinced that beer was our personal, free, choice. The fourth guy, he truly went into a minor crisis about the consequences. He is still on medication. My point: if you are so much affected by the philosophy you adhere to, something is not right. Too much power for the "uberich", to say it in Mr. Lucky's (Jung's, Freud's) terms.

 

What happened 2.5 yrs ago? Did you lose someone, e.g. a parent?

[Dazedand]

I appreciate all the replies!

 

I admit, that the household duties are not split 50/50, but they aren't far off. We both share responsibilities such as dishes and cleaning, and there are certain things she does such as laundry. She admits that she is a controlling and prefers things to be done her way so has trouble delegating things to me even when I want to take a more active role. I do help out around the house though, and this item is a non-issue for her as she is happy.

 

My opening post may have come across as me being with my head in the clouds and meditating in the next room while she is cooking dinner and dealing with two screaming children - nothing is further than the truth. I am very well grounded to reality and my family is my life. I am successful at my job, but have made it clear to them that family is a priority for me. It is infinitely more important for me to have the extra time with my kids each day as opposed to putting in more hours, advancing to upper management, and making some more money. For now, we are getting by fine and I get much more fulfillment from my family than I do from work or a higher paycheck. Likewise with the other aspects of my life - I have a good balance and they never ever take a priority over taking care of my kids.

 

I agree that I need to work more on marriage, but am at a loss how to - maybe the difference is too much for her and she just can't accept it. I know that she loves me as a husband, father, but what can I do from my side to make it easier on her? I have encouraged her to go out with friends for coffee but truth be told she doesn't have many close friends. We are flying to the States in a two weeks for a vacation with the family so hopefully this will be a breath of fresh air.

 

Interesting anecdote Mint Sauce - haven't come across something that extreme but I suppose it can happen. Most people who aren't receptive or open to things outside their paradigm show polite interest in my experience but their eyes glaze over look if you push them. Nothing traumatic happened 2.5 years ago, although it could have started around the time I found out my wife was expecting.

 

Stopping MC was around 70/30% her decision. She didn't like the counselor and there were a few things I disliked about her as well, but was more willing to give it another session or two. Liek I said though, just having a professional 3rd party allowed us to break free and open up a lot with each during the session that we took a lot out of it, not in any particular thanks to the counselor herself. I'd like to go and try again with someone else, but she seems somewhat against because of last time - although this was just in passing and not a serious discussion.

 

I do plan on taking a more active role in cooking my own meals (or making tasty vegan stuff for everyone), but the root of this problem is the fact that she feels she can't relate to me anymore. I challenged her yesterday in what she wants in a partner, what her ideal partner would be and she couldn't/wouldn't give me an answer. Honestly, I don't think she knows what she wants as she has a history of always wanting the fantasy life/relationship which isn't always grounded in reality. I don't dismiss the problems she brings up when they are valid and I do work to change them, but it can be frustrating for trying to impossibly live up to her expectations in certain aspects.

[Mr. Lucky]

I do plan on taking a more active role in cooking my own meals (or making tasty vegan stuff for everyone), but the root of this problem is the fact that she feels she can't relate to me anymore. I challenged her yesterday in what she wants in a partner, what her ideal partner would be and she couldn't/wouldn't give me an answer. Honestly, I don't think she knows what she wants as she has a history of always wanting the fantasy life/relationship which isn't always grounded in reality. I don't dismiss the problems she brings up when they are valid and I do work to change them, but it can be frustrating for trying to impossibly live up to her expectations in certain aspects.

Food issues aside (as a confirmed carnivore, "tasty vegan stuff" is a true oxymoron ), I can't help but wonder if your "aware/paranoid (depending on who you ask ) about the reality of this world, deeply spiritual in a non-religious way, and scrutinize many aspects of the life we live and things we do" self doesn't come across to her as smug and condescending? In other words, she may not resent your changes but rather the way the new you presents himself. Something to think about...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Dazedand]

Food issues aside (as a confirmed carnivore, "tasty vegan stuff" is a true oxymoron ), I can't help but wonder if your "aware/paranoid (depending on who you ask ) about the reality of this world, deeply spiritual in a non-religious way, and scrutinize many aspects of the life we live and things we do" self doesn't come across to her as smug and condescending? In other words, she may not resent your changes but rather the way the new you presents himself. Something to think about...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You are somewhat accurate with that assessment - she always knew me as a confident person and she being that she used to be very insecure it caused a lot of resentment and frustration from her side. I know that I can come across as smug - during arguments she vents her frustrations at how my confidence makes it impossible to argue with me because I will always prove her wrong. The truth is I am well aware of my limitations and I won't stick my guns if I realize I am in the wrong, but I because she usually doesn't manage to communicate in a way that sway my stance/opinion, she claims I have too much confidence.

 

So while that is also an issue in a marriage, I think the root of the issue is that I used to fit the profile of the dream husband she always wanted and have become something that although has many aspects of that profile, doesn't quite fit the bill. I can write pages on why I think she can't or isn't willing to accept this, but I can only change myself and would prefer to focus on advice as to what I may be missing or can do to make this easier for her to accept.

 

Appreciate you input.

[dichotomy]

Some people grow appart it happens.

 

However, if I had dime for everytime the phrase "your not the person I thought I married.."

 

The question I would ask your wife - what would be a happy life for you? and how am I responsible for not allowing you to have it?

 

One last note - want to go through changes in personality with someone you love? Have a female child. Mine has had more personallity, mood, interests, and appearance changes than.... chameleon playing a game of twister set up over a fire. Still love her - and let her explore those lifestyles (within reason - hate the emo stuff)

[KathyM]

I know that I can come across as smug - during arguments she vents her frustrations at how my confidence makes it impossible to argue with me because I will always prove her wrong. The truth is I am well aware of my limitations and I won't stick my guns if I realize I am in the wrong, but I because she usually doesn't manage to communicate in a way that sway my stance/opinion, she claims I have too much confidence.

Here's a big problem that I see. The way you communicate to her. What you are calling confidence she is perceiving as smugness, arrogance, rigidity, always wanting to be right and not being willing to listen to her perspective. I suspect you don't listen well to her, and you don't take her feelings/opinions/perspective into thoughtful consideration, and don't acknowledge, listen or empathize with her feelings or perspective very well. It's probably a communication issue that is your main problem, and a lack of respect that you are showing for her feelings and perspective that is coming across in the way you communicate with her. There are, of course, probably other things that are coming between you. If there is not any couple time without the kids, that can drag a relationship down, and the partners end up getting caught up only in running the household/taking care of the kids, and they lose the emotional connection with each other. There are probably compatibility issues if she is resenting having to change her diet/lifestyle just because you changed yours. These are things that should be worked out in counseling IMO, since there are several issues, the main one being poor communication patterns. And give the counseling a solid try. It takes months to correct multiple issues in a marriage. One session is nothing.

[Mr. Lucky]

Asked...

I can only change myself and would prefer to focus on advice as to what I may be missing or can do to make this easier for her to accept.

...and answered

Here's a big problem that I see. The way you communicate to her. What you are calling confidence she is perceiving as smugness, arrogance, rigidity, always wanting to be right and not being willing to listen to her perspective. I suspect you don't listen well to her, and you don't take her feelings/opinions/perspective into thoughtful consideration, and don't acknowledge, listen or empathize with her feelings or perspective very well. It's probably a communication issue that is your main problem, and a lack of respect that you are showing for her feelings and perspective that is coming across in the way you communicate with her.

You're at a point many of us come to in our marriage and the challenge is basically this - you can be right (in the absolute sense) or you can be happy. Majority of the time, pick one.

 

Were I you, I'd accept responsibility for communicating things on her terms, in ways she relates to and in a manner that makes her feel supported. If you're going to build confidence, build hers. Go beyond 50/50 and accept the burden of being the person that adapts to the needs of the situation. Long term, you'll have a better partner and a better marriage...

 

Mr. Lucky

[xxoo]

The truth is I am well aware of my limitations and I won't stick my guns if I realize I am in the wrong, but I because she usually doesn't manage to communicate in a way that sway my stance/opinion, she claims I have too much confidence..

 

Make it your goal to understand her stance. It isn't her job to sway you, but rather your job to understand her.

 

I wouldn't say that generally, but to you specifically, because it sounds like you are steamrolling her. This is your wife, not your adversary. Do your best to support her and understand her.

[janedoe67]

A big thing to remember:

 

She is not your student, and you are not her guru.

 

Also, marriage is not a debate stage. It is a partnership. Even as you are asking us to help you understand her and help you help her, you are minimizing her feelings (ie "she always wants the fantasy, isn't realistic, cannot communicate in a way that is good enough to sway me")

[2sunny]

You have the choice to pursue what you think is right for you.

 

She has the right to decide she doesn't agree with your choices you've made and changed since marrying her.

 

If it no longer matches - it may be best to end it.

[Dazedand]

Some great points made here and it's given me a lot of food for thought.

 

KathyM, I think you hit the nail on the head - I am a good listener and can empathize but there are certain things she does which invariably cause me to dismiss whatever she is saying with prejudice (usually when twisting the truth). I don't like this aspect of our communication because it's me that is initiating the dismissal but it is extremely frustrating to me. When she says those things I put up my walls and go quiet as there doesn't seem to be much point in arguing with her at that point so I just let her vent.

 

An example - our older son had trouble falling asleep a few weeks back and I was working like a dog for the past month so after reading him a few books at bedtime he wouldn't always be tired - they would make me more tired than him. While she was nursing the little one I would shut the light off and sit with him to say goodnight. For about 3 or 4 days I would lie down next to him and just fell asleep until he fell asleep (my wife woke me up when she came in or I could have been there all night). She didn't like me doing that as it would get him used to it and make it more difficult for him to go back to sleeping on his own. The next week he did make it more difficult for us to put him to bed and would get up a lot - this was probably partially because of that, but this was behavior that was going on a week or so before that - the kids just has more energy. A week after the last time I fell asleep with him we had a rough night where they both wouldn't fall asleep and in her frustration she said "this is why you have to stop falling asleep with him". This had been about the 5th time she had reminded me about that in the past week and I had a small burst of anger but quickly left the room to release some steam. During our argument after she insisted that she said we need to stop, not I. Her argument sounded logical, how she would never say something like that when we were both already frustrated, but I know what she said. She has done this many times in our marriage and it drives me crazy - I don't whether she is lying to me, to herself, or trying to get me to believe a half-truth so it will help her weasel out of admitting to herself and to me that she was wrong. Usually it is scenarios like this which cause me to shut down and just flat out dismiss things she says as she loses credibility in my eyes. She doesn't do this as often anymore, but I've seen her do it with other people in the past and it drives me crazy when it does happen so I may be over-reacting here... my memory may be failing but I generally have an excellent attention to detail and this has happened too many times in my marriage for me to believe that it isn't a manipulation tactic.

 

I know what all the above means - MC! I'll be booking us sessions with a new counselor after our trip to see if we can work out some of these issues, as communication is a big one. I don't want to end it, and I don't think she does. I hope we can find a good counselor this time - any ideas how to find a good one? She doesn't want to ask friends/family and I just picked the other one at random.

[JourneyLady]

One thing about supposed "spiritual" people. If they don't listen well, they are very obviously "not there yet". Nothing is more spiritual than the art of listening and understanding others, in my view. No good deed on earth gives life meaning more than that.

 

Because spirituality itself is the understanding that other people are mirrors of yourself in the way you understand them.

[xxoo]

During our argument after she insisted that she said we need to stop, not I. Her argument sounded logical, how she would never say something like that when we were both already frustrated, but I know what she said. She has done this many times in our marriage and it drives me crazy - I don't whether she is lying to me, to herself, or trying to get me to believe a half-truth so it will help her weasel out of admitting to herself and to me that she was wrong. .

 

Why are you even arguing this point?

 

The goal in this scenario should be to figure out a bedtime plan that works for both parents and both kids. Refuse to play the blame game. Stop taking the bait, and simply put the discussion back on track: How are we going to solve this problem?

 

The "this is why you should..." came out of frustration. It wasn't name calling, it wasn't nasty, maybe it wasn't accurate (we tend to overuse ALWAYS and NEVER when we are frustrated, too), but it wasn't worth getting into a second argument about. You need to let some things go and keep your focus on the solution.

[Dazedand]

Why are you even arguing this point?

 

The goal in this scenario should be to figure out a bedtime plan that works for both parents and both kids. Refuse to play the blame game. Stop taking the bait, and simply put the discussion back on track: How are we going to solve this problem?

 

The "this is why you should..." came out of frustration. It wasn't name calling, it wasn't nasty, maybe it wasn't accurate (we tend to overuse ALWAYS and NEVER when we are frustrated, too), but it wasn't worth getting into a second argument about. You need to let some things go and keep your focus on the solution.

 

I know, and you are 100% correct. I feel like I used to be more calm and collected and lately can't seem to let that stuff go. I tried being the bigger person in the past and the hits just kept on coming so it got to a point where I got tired of being blamed for things. Maybe I went about it a way that was too passive and not being more assertive in steering things into a healthier direction. Something for me to work on.

[2sunny]

Given what you've explained - I don't see your spirituality as being very strong. And since that looks like the case - are you sure you need all these changes more than you need your marriage/family?

 

First up - counseling to learn to communicate effectively with your wife - without fighting.

[Dazedand]

Given what you've explained - I don't see your spirituality as being very strong. And since that looks like the case - are you sure you need all these changes more than you need your marriage/family?

 

First up - counseling to learn to communicate effectively with your wife - without fighting.

 

I would think that given what I've explained, my marriage/family comes first - I want my wife to be happy and our relationship isn't in competition with any other aspect of my life. Not sure how you define spirituality here, but that isn't really the topic of this thread or even this forum so I've refrained from going into details as they aren't as relevant. I am not the Dalai Lama and well aware of my flaws - I came here because I knew that with as much self-reflection as I can do I was still missing something and needed some outside perspective. Even if I can't accurately share my marriage or my feelings in a few paragraphs, I've gotten some great feedback and insight which I deeply appreciate.

[2sunny]

If family comes first - then I guess your wife expects you to be the man she THOUGHT she married.

 

If she is that important - are you ready to loose the food preferences and spirituality preference that seems to be driving a wedge between you two?

[2sunny]

I would think that given what I've explained, my marriage/family comes first - I want my wife to be happy and our relationship isn't in competition with any other aspect of my life. Not sure how you define spirituality here, but that isn't really the topic of this thread or even this forum so I've refrained from going into details as they aren't as relevant. I am not the Dalai Lama and well aware of my flaws - I came here because I knew that with as much self-reflection as I can do I was still missing something and needed some outside perspective. Even if I can't accurately share my marriage or my feelings in a few paragraphs, I've gotten some great feedback and insight which I deeply appreciate.

 

Have you realized yet what you thought you were missing? What do you plan to change?

[BetheButterfly]

Make it your goal to understand her stance. It isn't her job to sway you, but rather your job to understand her.

 

I wouldn't say that generally, but to you specifically, because it sounds like you are steamrolling her. This is your wife, not your adversary. Do your best to support her and understand her.

 

This is beautiful advice. It really helps remembering that you two are a team, not 2 teams opposing each other!

[Grumpybutfun]

Some great points made here and it's given me a lot of food for thought.

 

KathyM, I think you hit the nail on the head - I am a good listener and can empathize but there are certain things she does which invariably cause me to dismiss whatever she is saying with prejudice (usually when twisting the truth).

 

Whose truth? Perception is reality and sometimes two people's perception can be aligned in physical while neurologically and spiritually be different. You may see things one way and she another but that does not make her way a version of a lie.

 

Also, I can see very little admiration or respect for your wife. You make her sound like she is less than you for not sharing your interests, which truthfully I find them pretty extreme to find interest in myself and I am a spiritual and intellectual sponge. Not trying to be pedantic here, but when would she have time to jump through all these hoops you are holding up in order for her to be interesting to you or relevant to your interests?

You talk more about your search and your changes than about her role as a wife and mother. Living in your head, and focusing on your interests and mental acuity doesn't really inspire a cohesive partnership with your spouse. With two small children, your focus on world matters and spiritual dogma is fairly selfish since she is left with the burden of being present with your children. I cannot stress this enough....you have babies and with them comes a great deal of hard work and sacrifice. Searching for the meaning of life, stressing about sharing meatless entrees or creating ideas of governmental conspiracies right now isn't really conducive to helping her with a toddler and a baby. She is unhappy because you are living in your head and she is living in the real world. She is also probably unhappy because with two small children her entire world is turned on its head and she has a husband who is more worried about sharing interests and her intellectual contributions than about making a home and family his priority. The bedtime argument was the only time you spoke of family dynamics (and this was just to stress your views) so I think you are still focused on your needs, which she doesn't have the time or energy for right now. Do you want to be right or do you want to be a family?

It is your inalienable right to have your interests. However, while she is trying to be a vegan chef, a homemaker for four, trying to find her new identity as a mother to two small children and a soundboard to a quirky conspiracy theorist, it is probably best if you do not judge her through your distorted lens right now.

Good Luck,

Grumps

Edited September 9, 2013 by Grumpybutfun