Do any OW/OM feel guilt?

[Goodbye]

My guilt comes when I think of the BS in my case being in the dark. My exMM did quite a sales job on me about how his marriage was "over" at his wife's choosing. Yes, yes...I fell for it probably because I desired to be loved, not because the signs of dishonesty were lacking. The long distance relationship enabled me to not see the truth. When the exMM finally did tell me he was NOT in the process of a divorce initiated by his wife, anger flooded me. Anger and confusion. I threatened to expose him to his wife and he claimed he'd already told her. I chose to believe that he did tell her...at least told her enough so that she could make decisions about the state of her marriage. But, in reality, I doubt he told her anything of substance.

 

My guilt comes from her not knowing what happened. She is likely living life with her H not knowing much transpired. She probably has written of "signs" as part of his busy life with travel. Who knows. I have considered enlightening her via letter. This would be very much out of character for me, but I do feel she deserves to know. I have waited to do this because I have also felt the urge to "out" exMM out of anger. To hurt him, not her. That wouldn't be very productive.

 

So, for now I take what guilt I have and vow to not get myself in this position ever again. I will be vigilant about my choice of mates in the future. I will ask questions, I will not allow myself to be so consumed with love that I cannot see the obvious truths.

[Goodbye]

I have the ability to spot an ow and a bs from a mile away. I can also spot a couple that are affair partners when their out in public places. Like the middle of the day in a movie theatre two people in their forties aren't that affectionate with their spouses but are with their ap's.

 

 

This is kind of funny. I think I can spot the "affair couple" now as well.

[ComingInHot]

So many dynamics to an A. Mostly it was just exhausting. Here is what I learned from my H, the exOW & myself;

I did not have guilt for any of the repercussions/consequences that exOW inflicted upon herself from her choices. I did however feel pity & sadness that she had a rough road ahead due to her choices and My REaction.

My H Did feel guilt, shame, & self loathing as he betrayed Himself & all he stood for. He didn't feel "remorse" until he got Caught, and then it took him months to feel & acknowledge what his actions and betrayal Did to me. It was Then that he realized the ultimate betrayal to me & our children, his famy & mine that his actions caused.

I felt humiliation, shame & embarrassment due to exOW & My H's A. I felt guilt that My H.s cheating was somehow my or partly my fault. I felt partly responsible for exOW's pain as I thought, "if only I'd done this, or been more..."

The exOW had Zero guilt or remorse at first and maybe at all. She just wanted to get "revenged" or get back or make even the score of being used. She wanted to make Me pay for standing in the way of what she thought she deserved & wanted. I would Like to think that these days, she has had time for reflection and considering her now status of wife & mother, understands what her part (and continued actions) caused in the lives of so many. I imagine her "happy" now. *

[So happy together]

Wow. Did you really just say that? You think a BS deserves what's coming to them? I could understand if you said an OW deserves what's coming to her if the BS blows the top off of everything, causing her to lose her job and family, but I don't understand how in the world you can imply that a BS "deserves what's coming to them". Even when my exH was abusive, he didn't deserve for me to cheat on him. He deserved for me to leave him, for sure, but there's no justification for cheating rather than leaving.

 

(I know, I sound like such a conflicted OW. I still firmly believe that you should leave a relationship before starting another and I will never believe that someone deserves to be cheated on. I tell MM this constantly so I know I sound like (am) a hypocrite since I am enabling him by being a willing participant in this relationship.)

 

I think that the Bs in my situation did not take responsibility in the failure of her marriage. It's all about the affair. That is sad on her end because she will never grow or learn what she could have done differently. I don't think you are conflicted. If you have these feelings for the Bs, then end your relationship. I like you Bentley, but I don't think you're conflicted. I think you make excuses for yourself and then try to get on everyone's good side. Feel bad? End it. Tell her. Good luck.

[So happy together]

I am not in a relationship with anyone other than MM nor am I dating anyone else so no, I do not consider myself to be cheating.

 

And here is when you excuse yourself.

[cocorico]

Wow. Did you really just say that? You think a BS deserves what's coming to them?

 

I did not say that every BS deserves what is coming to them.

 

Nor did I say that no BS ever deserves what is coming to them.

 

But some do, and my post referred to that subset of BS that do.

Edited September 8, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed quote

[velvette]

Actually, lacking in empathy and being unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings of others is one of the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

 

While this is true, I think its not usually whats at play in A. An A often plays out with the classic victim, persecuter, rescuer drama and an OW who sees herself as rescuing MM from the big bad wife is not going to feel guilt.

 

IMO this is more often about OW playing out some FOO issue where she was victimized by an abusive parent than NPD or sociopathy.

[thefooloftheyear]

I would think there would have to be some feelings of guilt involved..It takes a real lack of compassion, IMO, to say something like "they deserve it" or "i rescued him/her"..Over time,, I suppose those feelings would subside, but I just dont see it as normal behavior to not have any care or feelings..Then again, it does make it easier to justify if you view that other person(BS) as some kind of abusive beast-even if they arent...

 

TFY

[truthbetold]

I have the ability to spot an ow and a bs from a mile away. I can also spot a couple that are affair partners when their out in public places. Like the middle of the day in a movie theatre two people in their forties aren't that affectionate with their spouses but are with their ap's.

 

:laugh:

 

Well then I don't think you must encounter many happily married people to make that sort of judgement.

 

My husband and I are often PDA, not so much over the top but it's still there. He will grab me sometimes in stores or parking lots for an affectionate grab, kiss He doesn't give a crap what others think.

 

We were A LOT more affectionate in public when we first married. Sat on the same side, sit with a leg on top or holding hands. Granted that has calmed down a bit after being married for a while, but we still have those moments like that in public, for us anyway that's a huge key, to stay playful and romantic even in public at times, keeps the spark alive in the marriage. To still "date" each other and not take each other for granted.

 

Now there are other times where we may appear "distant" in public. I have a very stressful, depressing job in healthcare, I am not in direct care but my focus is still with oncology patients. When you are surrounded by terminally ill people with such sad stories, it really makes you take stock of your life. Nevertheless sometimes work overflows into my personal time, so I may not be all happy and light in public, again that's called life. You would be dead wrong if you thought we were unhappy based on that one snapshot of our lives.

 

I find it interesting when OW come to these determinations based on small snippets of what they may see if they see their MM out with their wife on what the state is on their marriage. Some people are not PDA and that's okay because they may be all over each other at home! Some people are both affectionate in public and at home. And yes, sure I bet some show over the top PDA and may fight like cats and dogs at home. And some may appear distant in public and are in a distant marriage, but the point is unless you're a fly on the wall of their lives, you have no idea.

 

So maybe you see now that all people do judge, even you and while you are making the judgement that you are seeing people in an affair you may have stumbled upon the rare species of the happily marrieds We're out there, even if LS is generally not representative of that.

 

To the OP yeah, it's normal to feel guilt if you are truly part of the "human race". No matter what higher power you ascribe to, all of them have peace and harmony at their core. "to love one another" which means do unto others, is a key to finding happiness within yourself which in turn will overflow onto others. If you don't feel guilt I would think you are either lying to yourself, which will come back to bite you, or are lacking in empathy which is a whole host of other problems. The fact that you are questioning it is good. Guilt should be a motivator for change to the positive. You shouldn't stay stuck in the holds of guilt. The guilt is telling your gut something is wrong and to make positive changes to restore harmony in your life.

[So happy together]

:laugh:

 

Well then I don't think you must encounter many happily married people to make that sort of judgement.

 

My husband and I are often PDA, not so much over the top but it's still there. He will grab me sometimes in stores or parking lots for an affectionate grab, kiss He doesn't give a crap what others think.

 

We were A LOT more affectionate in public when we first married. Sat on the same side, sit with a leg on top or holding hands. Granted that has calmed down a bit after being married for a while, but we still have those moments like that in public, for us anyway that's a huge key, to stay playful and romantic even in public at times, keeps the spark alive in the marriage. To still "date" each other and not take each other for granted.

 

Now there are other times where we may appear "distant" in public. I have a very stressful, depressing job in healthcare, I am not in direct care but my focus is still with oncology patients. When you are surrounded by terminally ill people with such sad stories, it really makes you take stock of your life. Nevertheless sometimes work overflows into my personal time, so I may not be all happy and light in public, again that's called life. You would be dead wrong if you thought we were unhappy based on that one snapshot of our lives.

 

I find it interesting when OW come to these determinations based on small snippets of what they may see if they see their MM out with their wife on what the state is on their marriage. Some people are not PDA and that's okay because they may be all over each other at home! Some people are both affectionate in public and at home. And yes, sure I bet some show over the top PDA and may fight like cats and dogs at home. And some may appear distant in public and are in a distant marriage, but the point is unless you're a fly on the wall of their lives, you have no idea.

 

So maybe you see now that all people do judge, even you and while you are making the judgement that you are seeing people in an affair you may have stumbled upon the rare species of the happily marrieds We're out there, even if LS is generally not representative of that.

 

To the OP yeah, it's normal to feel guilt if you are truly part of the "human race". No matter what higher power you ascribe to, all of them have peace and harmony at their core. "to love one another" which means do unto others, is a key to finding happiness within yourself which in turn will overflow onto others. If you don't feel guilt I would think you are either lying to yourself, which will come back to bite you, or are lacking in empathy which is a whole host of other problems. The fact that you are questioning it is good. Guilt should be a motivator for change to the positive. You shouldn't stay stuck in the holds of guilt. The guilt is telling your gut something is wrong and to make positive changes to restore harmony in your life.

 

How long have you been married?

[MissBee]

At the time I did feel badly/guilty about it, but it wasn't a constant. What was constant was never being genuinely comfortable in that kind of situation and never feeling like it was acceptable. It was always a case of "I'm doing this BUT..." kind of thing. I remember most strongly feeling guilt the first time we slept together.

[So happy together]

While this is true, I think its not usually whats at play in A. An A often plays out with the classic victim, persecuter, rescuer drama and an OW who sees herself as rescuing MM from the big bad wife is not going to feel guilt.

 

IMO this is more often about OW playing out some FOO issue where she was victimized by an abusive parent than NPD or sociopathy.

 

Lol. Wrong.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Um. No. Just no. I'm not a sociopath. I have great love for many. But I don't feel guilt for helping a man that I love see his real potential for love. His wife gave him nothing. I am empathetic toward HIS pain. She ultimately caused her own pain with her inner issues. Or is that never addressed? This is why I say always that BS's play a part. They do. And they love being the victim, don't they? They did nothing... psht.

 

The notion that an OW is some sociopath / narcissist / pop psych insult de jour simply because she recognises that the BS in her particular situation has brought her situation upon herself, is at best a complete stretch!

 

Most OW function very well in the world, have normal or even greater levels of empathy - just not towards that particular person in that particular situation.

 

And if someone deserves what's coming to them, why should the OW feel guilt for her part, unless she's transgressing against her own value system in some way.

 

 

Judge, jury and executioner...all rolled up in the unbiased thought process of an ow.

 

Bottom line, the state of someone elses marriage has nothing to do with YOUR choices. A healthy person, a person who really wants to help...would advise MC or divorce...not a roll in the sack.

[threelaurels]

This rings familiar. But not from OW, from Bs. Break it down.

 

I'm sorry, I just don't feel the need to answer to this because you think you know more from your therapy experience. I don't think you do.

 

Do you think the BS deserves to be cheated on because they did something that you consider wrong?

 

I don't follow your logic here. Is rape partially the victim's fault because the victim chose to dress provocatively, get drunk at a party, or trust someone they shouldn't have? Should a rape victim blame themselves for contributing to the circumstances that led to their victimization, or should they blame the person who chose to victimize them? Is it partially their fault that they didn't take the proper precautions to prevent being raped?

 

If you feel comparing rape to being cheated on is an unfair analogy, I would love to hear how you think they are different.

 

I seriously feel like throwing up. This is one of the worst cases of victim blaming I've seen in a long time. I suddenly feel ashamed to be a human being.

[janedoe67]

I think that the Bs in my situation did not take responsibility in the failure of her marriage. It's all about the affair. That is sad on her end because she will never grow or learn what she could have done differently. I don't think you are conflicted. If you have these feelings for the Bs, then end your relationship. I like you Bentley, but I don't think you're conflicted. I think you make excuses for yourself and then try to get on everyone's good side. Feel bad? End it. Tell her. Good luck.

 

You do comprehend that most BS's are not in the state that the BW of the man you are cheating with allegedly is, right? And that bashing BS's in general based on a sample of one is probably NOT the most logical course of action.....

[janedoe67]

This rings familiar. But not from OW, from Bs. Break it down.

 

I'm sorry, I just don't feel the need to answer to this because you think you know more from your therapy experience. I don't think you do.

 

My marriage was not good when I cheated. But since I am a health grownup I can still take responsibility for MY choices. That is the thing that seems to be...well just a big gaping hole here. Somehow a BS's faults mitigates the reality that someone who cheats on or with someone is, well, a cheater.

 

You can blame put a bow on a pig and blame the farmer for not putting out enough slop....but a pig in a pretty bow is still a pig.

[So happy together]

Um. No. Just no. I'm not a sociopath. I have great love for many. But I don't feel guilt for helping a man that I love see his real potential for love. His wife gave him nothing. I am empathetic toward HIS pain. She ultimately caused her own pain with her inner issues. Or is that never addressed? This is why I say always that BS's play a part. They do. And they love being the victim, don't they? They did nothing... psht.

 

The notion that an OW is some sociopath / narcissist / pop psych insult de jour simply because she recognises that the BS in her particular situation has brought her situation upon herself, is at best a complete stretch!

 

Most OW function very well in the world, have normal or even greater levels of empathy - just not towards that particular person in that particular situation.

 

And if someone deserves what's coming to them, why should the OW feel guilt for her part, unless she's transgressing against her own value system in some way.

 

 

Judge, jury and executioner...all rolled up in the unbiased thought process of an ow.

 

Bottom line, the state of someone elses marriage has nothing to do with YOUR choices. A healthy person, a person who really wants to help...would advise MC or divorce...not a roll in the sack.

 

Only the top portion of that was from me, but I'll say, my relationship with my boyfriend, who left his wife, who I am in a relationship with, was not just a 'roll in the hay'.

 

And nobody is healthy. Everyone has issues. Are you saying YOU are healthy?

[So happy together]

Do you think the BS deserves to be cheated on because they did something that you consider wrong?

 

I don't follow your logic here. Is rape partially the victim's fault because the victim chose to dress provocatively, get drunk at a party, or trust someone they shouldn't have? Should a rape victim blame themselves for contributing to the circumstances that led to their victimization, or should they blame the person who chose to victimize them? Is it partially their fault that they didn't take the proper precautions to prevent being raped?

 

If you feel comparing rape to being cheated on is an unfair analogy, I would love to hear how you think they are different.

 

I seriously feel like throwing up. This is one of the worst cases of victim blaming I've seen in a long time. I suddenly feel ashamed to be a human being.

 

They are very different.

[So happy together]

You do comprehend that most BS's are not in the state that the BW of the man you are cheating with allegedly is, right? And that bashing BS's in general based on a sample of one is probably NOT the most logical course of action.....

 

I'm sure they don't think they are...

[randomwoman]

I feel guilt if I am around her.When she is around me and I realize that I like her as a person, I feel bad about all that has happened behind her back. I try to avoid her at all costs obviously because it works my nerves and stresses me out to be around her at all.

[AlwaysGrowing]

People who recognize when they are wrong...admit so. Then they make amends..to either the person/parties they injured....or to themselves. By making themselves accountable.

 

Personally, I believe that we should strive to constantly grow. To hold ourselves to a higher standard. To actively engage in that growth. Healthier should always be the destination.

[threelaurels]

They are very different.

 

Unless you can clarify how they are different in this circumstance, I am going to assume you can't refute my point. The only thing that causes cheating is a choice. Other factors may be correlated with cheating, but they do not cause it.

 

Cheating requires willful intention. It cannot be directly caused by negligence or mitigating circumstances. Even if I agreed that a particular BS held partial culpability, it wouldn't negate the fact that they are still a victim.

[Sarabi]

Yeah I feel guilty. I feel bad for her for a variety of reasons... obviously him sneaking around and hurting her but well...because of what she knows or doesn't know about life. Although we are not too different in age, I feel bad that she married so young(bloody he11, if you ask me, 20 and only just 20 is very young to be married in this day and age when there are so many opportunities for young people)...& as a result probably had little time to experience much of a life of her own. I feel bad that she is with someone like that and probably feels that he is all she's got-he is her whole life; if I had married young I would imagine my views on marriage/relationships would be quite fairytaley...so for someone to cheat, would not be on my radar and would not be something I could envision. So to then have to deal with it if it happens...not easy. I feel bad wondering what she will be feeling for the rest of her marriage-will she worry that she can't trust him? Will she worry that he will do it again?

I do feel guilty.

I spoke with my therapist about all these things and he said I was very humane and that it was a nice quality to see how I showed empathy for the other side of the situation and how she might be feeling.

So...we are not all so cruel and unfeeling

[So happy together]

Unless you can clarify how they are different in this circumstance, I am going to assume you can't refute my point. The only thing that causes cheating is a choice. Other factors may be correlated with cheating, but they do not cause it.

 

Cheating requires willful intention. It cannot be directly caused by negligence or mitigating circumstances. Even if I agreed that a particular BS held partial culpability, it wouldn't negate the fact that they are still a victim.

 

I am not refuting the fact that they are sometimes the victim. I am bothered by the fact that someone would not have a clue in the world why her husband would cheat. That entails lying to herself. If she thinks she was happy she is either A. Lying. or B. oblivious to the needs of her husband. I will give the serial cheater up here, as that is not the same story, but generally, women don't want to believe what is happening or take her part in the unhappiness of it all. I find it fascinating that Bs's (generally) expect OW to take responsibility, but Bs's refuse, playing the martyr. No thanks.

[truthbetold]

How long have you been married?

 

Just shy of 8 years. The first couple were all the hot and heavy and state of limerence that is common. Even though we still share those butterflies that originally attracted us (chemistry) we still need to do the work, ie choice, that keep things alive.

 

When you live day in and day out with someone of course that sense of familiarity is going to take over. Boredom can set in if you so "choose" or you can choose to always keep the marriage a priority. Which means it isn't going to all be sunshine and rainbows. No matter who you are, you are always going to have disagreements and frustrations living with another. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise, but it's how they are handled and how strong your commitment is to another that make the difference. Again, ie choices to keep that original spark alive.

 

I think when you see that elderly couple that still look at each other with romance in their eyes when they are sharing a dance on NYE or walking in the park, that there is the mistaken belief by some that they are just lucky and found that person that clicked with and don't have any strife in their marriage. But that's false. That's why we applaud those that have made the 50 or 75 years together, because marriage "at times" can be very hard but oh so rewarding if you're willing to put in the work and nurturing. No matter who you are you cannot stay in that state of limerence that is so talked about on here. It's impossible without "work".

 

That's where most MM fail. They are constantly chasing that high and those feelings of falling in love. They don't like the "work" that is required and lack the commitment needed. Their coping mechanism is to cheat.

 

That's where my husband and I are different. I'm well aware we are judged by some that we haven't been married all that long. That's one thing that weighs on me, that we will never have those 50 years together. 30 if we are very lucky healthwise, but that's why life is so precious to us, it's so short.

 

If circumstances would have been different in our previous marriages (as we both were the ones to end them) we would have stayed married, even if we weren't happy in those marriages, both of us took our vows seriously but our spouses didn't share that view, so we had to make the choice to end it.

 

Neither of us think that life should be a bowl of cherries here on earth. This is a testing ground so to speak for the other side. I was divorced for 12 years before we met. He was divorced for 8. Five of those years were strictly devoted to raising his daughter that she walked out on. He did no dating whatsoever for five years. Then he had his dating horror stories as did I.

 

We literally "knew" when we met that we were meant to be together. I'm sure there are many people suspicious of that. Even my friends, until they met him, were wary and thought maybe I had lost my mind! But they know me and know I don't make rash decisions, they knew I had often talked of never marrying again because I was totally happy on my own and then when they met him, they "got it" They saw what I saw and it was truly amazing and humbling to witness their reaction. We met and married within 6 mos. Not every one should meet and marry that fast, we totally get that. But I also believe there is not set timeline for these things.(for us not to be corny it was truly, when you meet that person you want to spend the rest of your life with, you want that life to start ASAP! ...to quote When Harry met Sally!) Both of us had long courtships with our ex's mine was 4 plus years, 2.5 engaged and where did that lead? It's more important to share core values and morals.

 

The things that we knew that would provide a solid foundation is that Jesus is at the center of our lives, we both have the same world view, basic core values, would never tolerate cheating, a commitment to us is for life, so we literally took that leap of faith and I we have absolutely no regrets, this is the most fun I've ever had working at something and he says the same. the rewards are so very worth it. Communication is the key. But I maintain we get up each day and make the "choice" to love one another and show that love.

 

Love is action not merely a feeling. That's why I'm sorry but it's a joke to see what is described as love on here sometimes. I thought I was really in love before but it was a passionate dysfunction because when you have true love you can see that, the difference is vast. My ex is not capable of love. I've managed to teach my son the difference too.

 

Maybe that's why we were blessed to find each other and share in this joy here on earth. That because we get that life lesson that just because things are hard at times doesn't mean you should throw in the towel. Perhaps because God knows our heart that we do respect and honor all marriages that God himself (in our eyes) has instituted that is the reason he gave us the tremendous gift and honor of loving each other.

 

So that's my long winded answer. More than you asked but I also remember you wanted to pm me and didn't so maybe this answers questions that were on your mind. This of course is my opinion and experience. Others I'm sure may be different. But our good friends who are married 30 plus years, share many of the same things I've outlined. And it's pretty cool because as much as we've learned things from them (about the long haul) they have learned things from us. About keeping things alive. So yeah, even with all the crap that life can throw, it's pretty awesome to be a part of it all.