Why unfaithful rather than divorced?

[Kristine]

I'm going through a choice right now, and I'm kind of wondering why others made the choice they did.

 

There is a guy that has totally swept me off my feet. The problem for me is I am still married, we've flirted majorly and a spark is there. I've been contemplating a divorce for about a year now, I haven't actually done it yet. My husband treats me well, but I don't love him and never did (I married for the wrong reasons). He's not a good step-dad to my son, and is on probation for physical abuse. But we have a daughter together. I'm very torn on how to proceed.

 

I left my first marriage because he had an affair he wouldn't admit to, among other things. Being twice divorced is just so scary. Yet living without this guy is horrible to consider. I've had this strong attraction once before and let it go (we were both married). I just can't imagine letting love go again. I'm so torn about this, I'm not thinking clearly. Any advice?

[Pocky]

Leave because you're unhappy in your marriage and not because you met the other man. There is a good chance that you're disillusioned by how great you think it may be with the other guy and if you were to leave your marriage for the new relationship only to find it wasn't what you thought it would be you may be devastated. If you are truly unhappy in your marriage then you should deal with that and decide what the best course would be without considering the other man.

[Owl]

When I found out about my wife's emotional affair, she was all set to leave me for him. I tried everything I could think of to get her to stay. Long story short, she did stay, but it really looked like we were going to seperate/divorce at the time. So, for those first few weeks (until she decided that she DID still love me, and DID want to work on our marriage) I told her we'd get her fixed up right. We started looking at getting her enrolled into school, I worked on her resume, and started helping her to look for jobs and someplace to live. I told her that "If you're gonna leave, do it in style. Don't run to another man because you feel like you've got no choice. When you go out that door, STRUT, don't run." She realized during that time that she never had stopped being "in love" with me. The seduction of being involved with the OM, the thrill of the affair, the newness of the relationship with him had blinded her to what had been there in front of her the whole time.

 

Your situation may well be different. But I hope this gives you something to think about. She couldn't give ME a fair chance until she'd gotten HIM out of the picture.

 

Been just over six months since the end of her affair now. She's as in love with me now as she was when we met. And I feel the same way about her. I'm still dealing with what happened, and the scars are going to take a long time to fade, but we're together, and we're HAPPY together.

[KissMyTiara]

Owl, no offense, but your wife had an internet romance, not an "affair." What she did was no different than falling in love with a character on TV or in a book.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Pocky

Leave because you're unhappy in your marriage and not because you met the other man. There is a good chance that you're disillusioned by how great you think it may be with the other guy and if you were to leave your marriage for the new relationship only to find it wasn't what you thought it would be you may be devastated.

 

 

Very true. Just look at Meg Ryan...

[Barby]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

Very true. Just look at Meg Ryan...

 

agreed! Sounds like you have a type of co-dependency. You should leave because you want to leave not because there's a "chance" you could be happier with this "OM" what does it say about him if he wants to be involved with a MW???

 

 

I don't think that just because Owl's wife had an "internet affair" doesn't mean it didn't hurt him just the same. She was communicating with him, sharing her innermost thoughts, dreams, probably desires...things she should have done with her husband. Emotional affairs can be much more intense than physical ones...you can lay down with anyone, have intercourse and the only connection that's being made is strictly sexual..........an emotional affair is more deep. You feel that "soul connection" at least it appears you do....I could go on and on but you shouldn't "minimize" his situation just cuz it's not as "real" as your's was. Characters on tv or in a book don't talk back and tell the person what they need to hear, fill that emotional void, promise a great future...(at least I hope not unless they're delusional)

[Owl]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

Owl, no offense, but your wife had an internet romance, not an "affair." What she did was no different than falling in love with a character on TV or in a book.

 

 

No offense taken, or meant in my response KMT. But I don't know of many wive's who spend weeks IMing and calling the character in a book, do you? Calling them, chatting with them, telling them that they're in love with them and can't wait to be with them for real? Hiding that fact from their husband, disassociating themselves from the rest of the family, and coming to the conclusion that they're falling out of love with their husband, and in love with Yogi Bear?

 

Sorry, but it WAS an affair. An emotional affair. The only reason that it wasn't consumated was because of the distance between them. When confronted about it, he purchased her plane tickets to fly there to live with him. Wow, I wonder if she'd get the same kind of response from a character in a romance novel?

 

Bluntly, the damage she did hurts me as much (I think, not having experienced the rest of it) as if they HAD had sex. That was the only part of it that this lacked...and from everything I've seen and read (perhaps even from a few of your posts?), sex is only a small part of the affair relationship.

 

Call it what you like, feel like you will. I know what it was to me, to her, and to my family. I know that he was damn sure hoping and planning for her to be with him. If that doesn't meet the criteria of an affair, please let me know what's missing.

[meanon]

I just can't imagine letting love go again

I am on the brink of separation and well understand the feeling of being torn by the need to maintain the family and avoid the sometimes devastating emotional and financial consequences of separation. I know a little about the stages people go through when they make such decision. This is the classic time to seek an affair as a way of staying in a loveless marriage or to seek emotional support as you exit it.

 

I agree with the other posters that you should make the decision about the marriage independently of your decision about being lovers with the new guy, otherwise you could regret the decision to end the marriage if things don't work out. In my view, the writing is on the wall for your marriage. People don't stay in loveless marriages indefinitely, it's too hard. The issue is whether you should end it or seek to extend it temporarily with an affair. If you do this be aware that it's a temporary solution only, not a long term one

 

The difficulty is that if you love someone, eventually you are not satisfied with the small part of them that they can share with you. Letting the love go then is far more difficult. The future as a woman twice divorced is scary as it's unknown and you may well be alone for a while. Yet it holds the promise of lasting happiness as you will find love again with someone who can fully share your life. It's your poverty of expection that concerns me. I'm assuming, btw, that the guy you are flirting with is married. If he's not then that simplifies the situation enormously. Even so, if the affair doesn't fizzle out, there may well come a day when he wants more.

 

If you decide you must have this man, that the love is worth the price you will pay later, then that's fine. Do so with a clear head, a knowledge of how your current position has shaped your needs and a confidence that this is not all that life holds for you.

 

.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Barby

 

I don't think that just because Owl's wife had an "internet affair" doesn't mean it didn't hurt him just the same. She was communicating with him, sharing her innermost thoughts, dreams, probably desires...things she should have done with her husband. Emotional affairs can be much more intense than physical ones...

 

 

She DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS PERSON!!!! And we are all communicating HERE our innermost thoughts, dreams, fears, desires, worries, etc...and we do it also with close friends of both sexes. She developed a friendship. Sure, it sucks, and it hurts, but if she was willing to leave her H for a man she never even met, there are serious problems in that marriage and he shouldn't have been shocked that she was looking elsewhere.

[Barby]

but if she was willing to leave her H for a man she never even met, there are serious problems in that marriage and he shouldn't have been shocked that she was looking elsewhere.

 

True but I just love it how when any kind of affair takes place it's considered the "cheated's" fault, like they didn't do enough for their spouses...come on...it could be because the "cheater" is a very low down selfish person, only caring about their own needs and instead of communicating what's wrong they apt to hop in the sack with someone else (or in this case virtaul sack) so they don't have to deal with their real issues..so so lame...there is no excuse for cheating ever...but anyhoo I don't wanna keep hijacking this thread.

[immoralist]

Well said, meanon, as usual.

 

An affair is only a stop gap measure--artificial life support for a dying marriage. When the affair ends, and all affairs end, the marriage ends, too.

 

I understand that many people would much prefer an affair to postpone the day of reckoning in their loveless marriage. But that day of reckoning will come when you can no longer sleep with that person who has become a stranger in the marital bed.

[Owl]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

 

 

 

She DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS PERSON!!!! And we are all communicating HERE our innermost thoughts, dreams, fears, desires, worries, etc...and we do it also with close friends of both sexes. She developed a friendship. Sure, it sucks, and it hurts, but if she was willing to leave her H for a man she never even met, there are serious problems in that marriage and he shouldn't have been shocked that she was looking elsewhere.

 

 

Just as I don't know your whole situation KMT, nor do you know mine. I really don't care if you agree that it was an affair or not. As for not being shocked....puh-leese! Regardless... Do me a favor...look up the definitions of an affair on the internet, and put up a post on them here on the board. I'd be interested to see if you come across a lot of the same definitions as I've seen. Try also using the keywords "online affair", and "emotional affair".

 

As for her not knowing the guy...well, I agree. They both were only showing each other what they wanted the other to see. And, they were only seeing what they wanted to see of each other. And its not any different in a physical affair??? So, in the situation you've been in, you've asked the OM/MM to say, get your feminine products while at the store?? Or he's asked you to pop a zit on his back? You've both been in the bathroom at the same time when one of you drops a stinky?? Not likely...because you're only letting each other see a portion of you. It was exactly the same way with all the IMs and phone calls that my wife shared with this other guy. I agree that it was a fantasy...but that doesnt make it any less of an affair. All affairs are fantasies...if they weren't, they'd be marriages, and they wouldn't happen nearly as often as they do!!!!!

 

So, by your definition of an affair, if I were to go out and start having sex with a woman I didn't know and didn't care for, it wouldn't be an affair, and it shouldn't be devastating to my wife???

[startingover1028]

So, by your definition of an affair, if I were to go out and start having sex with a woman I didn't know and didn't care for, it wouldn't be an affair, and it shouldn't be devastating to my wife???

 

In my opinion, it would be much LESS devastating to her if the relationship involved only sex... rather than "emotions". But sex has a way of defining a relationship, catagorizing it in ways that might not have been intended. Strong emotions can open the door to sex and sex can open the door to strong emotions... It's a catch-22 if ever there was one.

[Owl]

Originally posted by startingover1028

 

 

In my opinion, it would be much LESS devastating to her if the relationship involved only sex... rather than "emotions". But sex has a way of defining a relationship, catagorizing it in ways that might not have been intended. Strong emotions can open the door to sex and sex can open the door to strong emotions... It's a catch-22 if ever there was one.

 

 

Ok, so by YOUR definition...a situation like mine listed above, where they never physically met, but carried on an LDR emotional relationship is still an affair. I personally feel that way at least. And I would have to say that either one would be devestating as heck to the betrayed spouse...and had my wife gone to be with the OM, sex would have been inevitable given the emotional attachment they already felt. That hurts just to think about, but I still think its true.

[Owl]

Actually, I want to apologize to the thread owner, and drop my whole tangent on this. It doesn't matter what anyone wants define as an affair. It doesn't change my situation, or the situation of the person who originally submitted this thread. Again, I apologize. I feel like I've taken this too far off course by trying to 'defend' my own position.

[Kristine]

Just to answer a few questions posted. The guy isn't married, and he knows my feelings about my marriage. My husband has stated he thinks divorce is easier on kids when there's around kindergarten age. Our daughter is 2 1/2. Basically he still acts like he wants to be with me, but I'm completely not into him (unless I'm faking it). And yes I feel it's a co-dependant marriage, there is no love here (even though he says he loves me daily). I wouldn't just leave for this other guy, but leaving would be easier for me. I didn't plan on meeting anyone, wasn't even looking, things just happen.

[startingover1028]

Ok, so by YOUR definition...a situation like mine listed above, where they never physically met, but carried on an LDR emotional relationship is still an affair.

 

Yes, I agree. I think that any time a husband or a wife finds emotional support / comfort / excitement / interest outside the boundaries of marriage it constitutes an "affair". To me the word "Affair" is just a label for any secretive emotional or physical relationship with someone other than your spouse... whether or not the two people have met. (The operative word here is secretive)

 

I have to agree with others here who have said that the problem lies not in the affair but in the marriage. Deal with that first, and the rest will fall into place... one way or another. Don't let the OM be the "reason" that you leave the marriage. If it is, and he ends up walking away, then you will be left forever wondering if you made the right choice.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Owl:

So, in the situation you've been in, you've asked the OM/MM to say, get your feminine products while at the store?? Or he's asked you to pop a zit on his back? You've both been in the bathroom at the same time when one of you drops a stinky?? Not likely...because you're only letting each other see a portion of you.

 

This is actually SO funny to me, because he has voluntarily picked up tampons for me on his way over to my house, and I have popped pimples on his back (and one on his chest from shaving), and although I haven't been in the bathroom when he's "dopped a stinky," we have had many overnight events, including those that began with dinners that, shall we say, roared through him like a freight train (if you get my drift), and left lingering, uh, scents all throughout my house.

 

In my situation, Owl, what's so scary is that despite seeing all of this, actually being with each other, sharing our lives with each other, including experiencing a LOT of the daily grind with each other, seeing each other through family deaths, personal illness, work crises, etc., we still wanted to be with each other alllllll the time. I had never, ever, been in such a situation where despite all the "bad" stuff, I still wanted HIM, all of him - the good, the bad, the ugly. I've had other serious relationships that have experienced the same kinds of things that made me want to run - but from my MM, I just couldn't. And see, I met him through business ties, and I had spent hours on the phone with this guy before I actually MET him, could see and touch him, but it was from the moment I MET him that the real feelings for him as a person developed.

 

What I am saying is this - my affair, and I think most "heavy duty" affairs like mine (and that of others like, for example, Izzybelle) - are not based on fantasy, but just what our own reality is. We have an entire world separate and apart from the married person's marriage, but it's based on what we actually know and experience with that person - it's REAL. YOUR W was leading out a fantasy with her internet friend. Yes, of course I understand that would and did hurt you. But trust me, the damage she caused in her particular internet affair, although emotional, is not nearly as damaging and devastating as it would have been had she been in the sort of relationship like me and my MM. That, my friend, I don't think you would have made it through.

[Ladyjane14]

As the wife of a man who had several EA's, I can testify to the fact that the rage and pain of the betrayed spouse is very real.

 

If it had not been for the laws of God and Man, there is no telling what I might have done to the last OW who was messing around with my husband. If she had actually physically touched him....Well, I'm not sure that I could have maintained my self control.

 

So, I have to agree that there is some comfort in knowing that he didn't go through with it. And I'm very glad that it was an EA, rather than a full-fledged sexual affair.

 

I just think it's a terrible shame that an OM or OW can get so busy justifying their actions and making the situation seem so civilized in their own minds, that they do not recognize the danger that they put themselves in. They put their safety at great risk.

 

If it were in my power and I could have hurt that woman without committing sin, or breaking the law........I would have. But then again, I'm not psychotic. I'm just amazed at her audacity in the fact that she was counting on me being sane.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

I'm just amazed at her audacity in the fact that she was counting on me being sane.

 

 

I pray my MM's wife is sane.

[Barby]

I just think it's a terrible shame that an OM or OW can get so busy justifying their actions and making the situation seem so civilized in their own minds, that they do not recognize the danger that they put themselves in. They put their safety at great risk.

 

YES YES YES Thanks for putting it into the right words...here's some examples of crimes of passion NOT insanity!!!

 

 

-Betty Broderick who's cheating husband ended their 20+ year marriage and married the OW who was like 15 years their junior...she ended up shooting and killing them both!

 

-Loraina Bobbett we all know that story.

 

-Claira Harris who ran over her cheating husband after he promised to end the affair and she and his daughter caught them again together in a hotel room and when they came out Claira ran tried to run over them both but the "OW" was able to get out of the way and she ended up running him over several times until the cheating scum died! They also had been married over 20 years!

 

I could go on and on and on and on but I think the picture is clear...people don't think about the hurt they are contributing too, or if they do they're so selfish they only care about themselves and their few minutes/hours of happiness!

[Owl]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

 

This is actually SO funny to me...

 

Hehe, I did mean it to be funny. Believe it or not, its almost word for word what I told the OM when I spoke with him the day before my wife was supposed to get on the plane to fly off to live with him. I phrased it jokingly in an attempt to lighten what I was saying a bit...honestly I did want to say/do a LOT more to him than I did. I'm sure you can imagine!

 

In my situation, Owl, what's so scary is that despite seeing all of this...

 

 

 

What I am saying is this - my affair, and I think most "heavy duty" affairs like mine (and that of others like, for example, Izzybelle) - are not based on fantasy, but just what our own reality is. We have an entire world separate and apart from the married person's marriage, but it's based on what we actually know and experience with that person - it's REAL.

 

From what you described KMT, I DO believe that your relationship sounds a little more "based in reality" than what I've seen of other affairs. I can only imagine how it is for you.

 

YOUR W was leading out a fantasy with her internet friend. Yes, of course I understand that would and did hurt you. But trust me, the damage she caused in her particular internet affair, although emotional, is not nearly as damaging and devastating as it would have been had she been in the sort of relationship like me and my MM. That, my friend, I don't think you would have made it through.

 

And believe it or not, I totally agree it was a fantasy. I tried SOOO hard to make her see that, but of course that wasn't possible until after she'd stayed and started working things out with me. They really didn't know each other...only what they'd LET each other see of themselves. So don't take me wrong, please. I agree that it was a fantasy. AND, I'll agree with you too that if it HAD gone further, we very well might NOT have made it. The one thing I made clear to her was that if she got on that plane, I would NEVER take her back. Because, I knew that if she got on that plane, and went to him, she would have given herself to him completely. She had already "given him her heart" as she'd told me then...and that hurt more than I think you could imagine to hear. When there is that much emotion going on, the physical "rest of it" would have followed very quickly.

 

I guess what the point I wanted to make to you KMT is that while it definitely WOULD have been worse if she'd gone to him physically, and it was a fantasy, it was still an "affair of the heart". I don't know where you've been or what your life has been like, but I'm not sure I can convey what I felt when all of this came down. Just try to imagine the person you've spent that much of your love and life with telling you that she loves someone else. Its kind of funny...I can still picture that morning in the motel room, when the OM called and she was talking to him. I told her I was going to step out of the room so she could take the call...and at the same time, she told him "I love you too". It hurt so much I thought I would be sick, and I know that it showed on my face. And the funny thing is, she (without thinking about it), signed I love you to me in an apology. She hadn't even realized that she had until I pointed it out to her afterwards. Can you imagine what it still feels like to me, having thoughts and feelings like that in my head still??

 

I was married to this woman for 16 years when this happened. While I knew we were having a tough time in our marriage, I would have NEVER expected her to be ready to pack up and leave me for someone else like that, on the drop of a hat so to speak. The same hurts, doubts, fears are there as there would have been if this affair had been physical. The trust is as shattered as it would have been. The self-doubt, the feeling of worthelessness and the feeling of being "disposable" are all there. The sudden reality check that our marriage really ISN'T any better than anyone else's happened.

 

Would it have been much worse if it had gone on longer, or if it had gotten to the next level?? Certainly. I recognize how luckly we are that it was caught where it was, and that it ended when it did. Had it gone further, we darn well would have had a FAR tougher time in recovering...if we could have. But you know, what happened still hurts like hell every single day.

 

Thanks for the response back, KMT. I don't mean to make it sound like what you're going through isn't huge, or even the same as my situation. Its not. But I wish that there was some way we could ALL avoid getting into the situation where we feel like this, or make others feel like this.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Owl

 

 

Thanks for the response back, KMT. I don't mean to make it sound like what you're going through isn't huge, Its not.

 

 

HUH?? Is that an insult or just a typo?!?

[Owl]

LOL...typo, NOT insult. I meant to say that I'm not trying to downplay your relationship and situation that your in, and that I know that your current situation is different than what my wife went through, and different from what I have seen. No insults intended at all.

[KissMyTiara]

I know, we are all very, very different, and all in very different situations. Honestly, that's what makes these forums so darn frustrating at times, because no two people have the same experience to really effectively be able to help/guide the other.