Really should I leave my wife?

[m1ke11]

And also thanks for your help Ptero---- I think I was blind to the obvious and your advice seemed to ring true. We are giving this another shot and we both have work to do.

[m1ke11]

Hey guys, he's gone out for a ride. Got better things to do now.

 

Dude, when ya get back, check this.

 

You wanna separation to find yourself? Or whatever? And your wife right now is trying to institute the changes and requirements you've put on the table. There was a really great suggestion about taking her off for a romantic weekend somewhere, but you didn't respond to that idea. what about the suggestion to reward her in some way for her changes as suggested by another wise LS contributor? Oh, I think that may be when you needed to go for your bicycle ride.

 

You are thinking only about yourself. And that is not right, it is selfish. It is obvious you are trying to edge your way out of the marriage now that you are all fit and trim. It is possible for you to encourage you wife, but your head is in separation and EA mode (and also the part you probably haven't told us). This is just my personal opinion, but I don't really buy any of this EA BS, because people that are EAing, can be masterbating with their EA in their mind, too. I mean, these days, you can be intimate together on-line, live, and technically, it's an EA.

 

But when a guy admits to two EA's, and also admits to an unsatisfactory sex life, and also brags about how "buff" he is, there is little chance he is not having some sort of sex with his EA partners. That is just common sense.

 

You want a divorce, and you wanna look like the nice guy.

 

A separation to improve the relationship with your wife, whom you have little faith in? You said several times, her changes will not be permanent. What do you think will happen to her MOTIVATION, SELF ESTEEM, CONFIDENCE when her husband of 20 years takes a "separation sabbatical?". You know what that is, Sir? It is a direct sabotage on your wife's progress, so you can find justification in what you have already determined what you plan to do, and most likely, whom you plan to do it with.

 

Of course, your wife will flip out if you move out and leave the family. Her new found changes, (even if maintenance is an issue), will be the last thing on her mind. How in the world do you think she is going to respond to this news?

 

Done and done. You are looking for justification. But there are enough clues in what you've written to spell out your real story. And you do have a slight conscious, I would guess. Good luck trying to fool yourself. You just got unraveled, man, and I am normally very dead on. What happened to the great biker, Lance? As I recall, he was even known for beating the odds for testicular cancer. Am I right about that? But in the end, he was a big cheater, was it performance enhancing drugs? You never know, maybe that is why he had the testicle issue. I wonder if he stayed married? It must be really embarrassing to lose all you trophies and metals. Karma is a bitch. Yas

 

 

All I can say is you weren't so right about this one....

[Misadventure]

This place blew up when I left!

 

Sure I don't mind the ridicule but what people don't understand here is all the effort I have invested with no result. Over the last five years I have been absolutely miserable. My daughter going off the deep end while my spouse watches "cops" and I'm trying my very best to work with my daughter? And I am the one to blame? Thats one example of a whole year of that kind of behavior. To me that's almost inexcusable.

 

Notice I said almost inexcusable. That brings me to the next part. After my ride (this is how I find my center btw and get rid of that over caffeinated anxiety feeling) I took my wife to dinner. I told her that she deserves every chance and all the support I can give her. Keep in mind this is after trying to support her for 15 years of anxiety, self esteem and a depression or two. Not to mention the last 5 years of disengagement.

 

So we had dinner, talked about it and made plans together for the week end out of town.

 

And btw- riding is what I do when I am distraught. It helps me, what's wrong with that? I'm taking care of myself after 5 years of drinking and not working out and I am proud of my accomplishment. What's wrong with that?

 

What you wrote and how you wrote it is what I responded to from interpretation.

 

No one truly knows whats going on except the two of you.

 

But from what I read it sounded arrogant, selfish, demanding, and that you weren't fully holding up the mirror to you while you are doing so to her. Please realize that all you can control is YOU. Sure, there are some changes you want to see from your spouse, and vice versa. You know the things you have done on the sly and she does not. If you are being honest with yourself and others, you need to have 100000% effort in not doing any more EA or with the OW.... if you are inclined to.. then tell your wife and let her decide what to do with you. It honestly doesn't matter what she has done or not done, it doesn't excuse you to have affairs.

 

So think long and hard about your end... not so much hers... YOUR end. Let her work on hers and then come to the middle.

 

Marriage is two people working on things but if you are already checked out or even somewhat you need to be honest..with her.. yourself.

[cozycottagelg]

I can agree that it seems like she is making changes, and perhaps he should consider those before throwing in the towel...

 

But why, WHY THE HELL, does it take wanting to be completely out of the picture before people actually change. Sorry, that REALLY sucks for the ones who tried ALL the years before.

 

As someone who keeps the house afloat, does everything with the kids, takes care of the finances and planning... blah blah blah... oh, now you wanna help? Now that I'm completely burned out? Here, do it, practice, because I'm OUT.

 

Don't mean to hijack..it was a really awful weekend at my house.

[trippi1432]

So Cozy, now he wants to help....but you are the one carrying resentment. That's what you need to figure out how to get over. Hand him some of those responsibilities and be grateful so you can find your center and be happy. Are you? Or are you harboring them because you don't want to give up those things? We know how you got to where you are by avoiding and not speaking up until the resentments became the biggest elephant in the room.

 

Again, change doesn't start with just your husband, it starts with both of you. It's called forgiveness and working together to share the responsibilities. My exH put everything on me, which allowed him to not be responsible for anything. I'm not telling you anything I haven't learned or been through in an unhappy relationship.

 

Not a thread jack, you and the OP have the same dynamic. Might even be good to see it from the male and female dynamic on the same topic. Of course if the EA's are outted, this thread will take a totally different path.

[cozycottagelg]

So Cozy, now he wants to help....but you are the one carrying resentment. That's what you need to figure out how to get over. Hand him some of those responsibilities and be grateful so you can find your center and be happy. Are you? Or are you harboring them because you don't want to give up those things? We know how you got to where you are by avoiding and not speaking up until the resentments became the biggest elephant in the room.

 

Again, change doesn't start with just your husband, it starts with both of you. It's called forgiveness and working together to share the responsibilities. My exH put everything on me, which allowed him to not be responsible for anything. I'm not telling you anything I haven't learned or been through in an unhappy relationship.

 

Not a thread jack, you and the OP have the same dynamic. Might even be good to see it from the male and female dynamic on the same topic. Of course if the EA's are outted, this thread will take a totally different path.

 

I can agree with this. But I also feel like it's "our" (figuratively) spouses that come on this very board and say "My wife/husband left suddenly" when it wasn't sudden. Yes, maybe for them...and yes, I am an avoider, but as I've reflected on my marriage, I KNOW that he was aware all the times I was unhappy, but he chose to ignore it. I didn't think so before, but now I know that I tried to do all the right things and stay true to myself.

 

I guess part of the problem is the extremes. It's like all or nothing. And I get that the all means they are doing everything they can think of to make it work, and I get that I need to just go if I'm not going to try...IDK..I'm rambling.

 

It's just so discouraging, for me, that I wasn't worth all this effort before. That is heartbreaking for me. Heartbreaking.

[trippi1432]

M1ke - I applaud you on the bike riding and replacing the drinking with something healthy. There is nothing wrong with that, but I agree with MisA's assessment on how it came across at first.

 

I like the fact that you are going to work on this, the weekend I'm sure is to address the intimacy and sex, but I don't see her as the only one with anxiety here. You do the bike to help yours, she needs things to do to help her anxiety as well. That's another point to work on, give her responsibilities, and be grateful with the efforts. It will minimize your stress and make her more productive.

[m1ke11]

I can agree that it seems like she is making changes, and perhaps he should consider those before throwing in the towel...

 

But why, WHY THE HELL, does it take wanting to be completely out of the picture before people actually change. Sorry, that REALLY sucks for the ones who tried ALL the years before.

 

As someone who keeps the house afloat, does everything with the kids, takes care of the finances and planning... blah blah blah... oh, now you wanna help? Now that I'm completely burned out? Here, do it, practice, because I'm OUT.

 

Don't mean to hijack..it was a really awful weekend at my house.

 

It's no hijack. This is exactly where I am and how I feel. I think our situations are very similar. Hopefully you have an outlet like I do.

[Yasuandio]

All I can say is you weren't so right about this one....

 

You will have to wait awhile to find out if I am right. Karma doesn't always happen overnight. Ask Lance.

 

 

Referring to your focus on your accomplishments, you said: "What's wrong with that?" Here is what's wrong with that. Your pseudo-accomplishments and sudden burst of endorphins are not a reason to leave your family, or ignore your wife. Engaging in conduct that involves "EAing" other women obviously robs your wife of her emotional needs - because you cannot come home and provide the emotional needs to a second woman (your wife) effectively - no matter how swift you think you are.

 

You have told us how you have struggled, years, with psychological issues of hypochondria and anxiety. Your wife was by your side the entire time. It is a logical conclusion that exercise is helpful for anxiety. Most importantly, you have done a great service to yourself and your family by doing the work in therapy it takes to overcome what is a serious illness. But don't ever forget, the psychological issues you speak are often treated most properly by a psychiatrist. I am not a medical doctor, bot I think it is possible some might refer to hypochondria and anxiety as psychological disorders you may have to cope with your entire life. Sadly, for some, illness of the mind is not so simple as stitching up a wound and waiting for it to heal, and go away.

 

I would imagine this "hypochondria" to be a big pain in the neck to deal with, I think you should focus on the years your wife devoted to that situation. I myself have suffered from severe anxiety for 13 years - it is so bad it causes me to get paranoid sometimes. Paranoia is very scary to the person experiencing it. But the others that have to deal with the paranoid person, I am sure get really annoyed with me sometimes. I have a feeling, there may be a relationship between paranoia and hypochondria - because in both cases, your imagination is running wild, and the fear or concerns the patient is experiencing seem very real. Do you think that is true? Well, at least I do know for a fact, my paranoia issue has been a big pain in the rear end of everyone of my friends.

 

A little more about my anxiety - 13 years of it. For many years, most of the time it was just worries in my head, nervousness. Then it manifested into panic attacks. Once we got that under control with medication - the paranoia started, and that too is controlled with medication. Now, I always have slight tremors, even when I feel normal. But my anxiety at it's worst, like if I'm under a great deal of stress, my tremors are 1-2 inches wide. Seriously. That is how bad anxiety can get as you age. And I am alone. Of course, my case is complicated with bi-polar disease.

 

What would happen if you got sick again? Who could understand your illness? Especially the Hypochondria? Suppose, for no reason you can control, your anxiety returns, despite your exercise program?

 

I'll give you another example. When I was at the grocery store, my tremors were larger than normal that day cause I was worried about my credit card being declined. The checker asked me, "Lady, are your alright? Should we call EMS?" Do you know how embarrassing that was? During that same very stressful month, last July, I started having chest pains along with the anxiety, and that really scared the heck out of me. My blood pressure was sky high too. After reporting to my MD, she ordered me to go to the ER - which I did not want to do (because of my psychiatric condition). But I listened to her, and went. After that, she put me through a huge number of stress and heart tests. The diagnose was that my heart was in normal condition - and the chest pains were due to ANXIETY. I felt like a hypochondriac myself! But those chest pains started out as tightness in the middle of my chest - and then became totally massive pressure on my entire chest. Now my blood pressure medicine has been doubled - due to anxiety.

 

My point to you is that anxiety is a weird illness. It comes and goes. I have absolutely no tremors or anxiety at all as I type this message for you. What I'm trying to explain to you there is a spectrum of different types of anxiety. I have experienced many versions myself since becoming disabled. I have gone as much as two years without symptoms of this weird anxiety. But at times - it is really frightening to see my body tremor as it does.

 

Now I wanted to say something about your wife's TV addiction. I recall, towards the end of my marriage, having a similar issue myself. There was nothing else to do in the evenings. My husband pretty much just went upstairs to watch CNN all evening, and I would bring his meal up to him, and come back to pick up the empty dishes. My husband was obviously seeing someone else during this time - but I only figured that out a couple years into the divorce process. I really did get hooked on TV, cause husband was not interested in talking to me, or taking me anywhere, nor intimacy for years. I also worked on my art projects while I watched my "stupid" TV shows. My doctor felt I was extremely depressed during this period. The TV was an escape for me - and also a routine that I followed.

 

Now that you have your own illness under control, has it occurred to you that you wife may have developed some depression or anxiety herself by being your "caregiver" all these years? And perhaps the obsession with the TV is a symptom of escape? Would you be willing to take care of your wife, and get her the help she needs if she has developed "caregiver" related or other type of depression?

 

Give your wife a reason not to watch "Cops." The evening you described with your wife sounded like a great start.Be nice to your wife. Be good to your wife. Love your wife. Yas

 

PS I hope my personal examples were helpful to you.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Yasuandio

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Mike,

 

You have received some divergence of suggestions here and I am going to toss in another.

 

Not every marriage is meant to last. Not every relationship has legs.

 

When you are married, and you have children, you owe it to the marriage to give it your best shot before deciding to throw in the towel. But ultimately, the decision to do that's and deal with all the associated fallout can only be made by you.

 

We don't know your wife, but many of us on this forum can empathize with her side and voice her concerns to you. But isn't that why you come to an anonymous forum anyway? To get different opinions and suggestions? Take what speaks to you, but remember if it pisses you off you owe it to yourself to really think about what is being said, because those statements likely have some grain of truth.

 

Based on what you said, and extrapolating, I see the following:

 

Your Wife

Probably depressed, probably needs counseling and medication. Symptoms of tuning out, lack of interest in sex, low self esteem etc. People who are depressed often cannot see it themselves. It's not about sucking it up and just getting better, they don't know how.

 

She probably has lost her identity some in the 20 years you have been married. Your daughter is getting older and sometimes we moms have to figure out who we are when we aren't "needed" anymore.

 

Personal experience-I remember once having a meltdown with my husband saying I never got to do what I wanted to do, he asked me what did I WANT to do...I said...I don't know and cried harder. It's funny now, but at the time was not funny.

 

Maybe she feels unattractive or bored or whatever.

 

You didn't mention if she works, but I know that sometimes getting out there with a career helps some of those issues I mentioned above. Counseling and maybe medication might help, but definitely a physical, where you both talk about her lack of sex drive and depression should be considered.

 

You

You appear to have swapped an unhealthy addiction, with a healthy one, but it is still an addiction. You are using the bike riding as a method to numb your feelings rather than working them out with your wife. Think about it.

 

I am a firm believer that all affairs, including emotional affairs are as a result of poor coping skills...NOT as a result of circumstance. So I disagree with the previous poster that excused your EA because you were unhappy. You turned to someone else to cope with your unhappiness, which is always 100% wrong. You will get no pass on that from me.

 

You appear to have taken (actively or passively) total responsibility for the health well being and happiness of your family. (Chores, child, wifes mental health?) And now you realize you don't want the responsibility, or at least not alone, maybe you never wanted it?

 

You want a change to the current family dynamic. To do this the whole family needs to be involved.

 

Successful relationships require that emotional support and problem solving occur within the marriage unit. As a team.

 

Each team member is responsible for themselves and their actions but at problems are addressed together.

 

You do not have a marital team.

 

Not in the addressing of chores, income, children, unhappiness, sex etc. you are both handling it separately. This is a recipe for divorce.

 

I suggest the following actions.

 

Take your romantic holiday with your wife. Tell her how unhappy you have been, and how you know she is also unhappy. And tell her that you both need to be committed to do whatever it takes to fix it. Talk and listen here.

 

You commit to bringing issues to her, I would tell her about the EAs. You didn't realize what you were doing, but now you know it is an unhealthy way of handling issues.

 

Tell her you need help steering the family ship, chores, money, child issues. You want her to initiate sex a whole lot more, because you think she is beautiful and want to be with her.

 

Listen, really listen to her issues too.

 

Flirt, touch, be romantic have a ton of sex.

 

Read the following book together this weekend The Five Love Languages. You can download to an ereader. It's very helpful. Stupidly easy.

 

If you really try and fail then you both mutually throw in the towel knowing you did what you must.

 

I feel like your thoughts about separating are one of eliminating responsibility and getting to be focused 100% on you for a while. The thing is....that's not what reality would look like. You would have two households to support, visitation, lawyers, anger, etc. it would not be a Mikey's vacation from stress sitch like you imagine.

 

And...what happens if your wife says, sure lets separate, I am unhappy too, and then proceeds to meet a great guy, who loves her the way she is? Is that the ideal end result for you?

 

Again, not all marriages have legs. Maybe yours doesn't...who knows.

 

IIWII

 

Cozy, if you start a thread with your details I will post for you there.

[pteromom]

Not every marriage is meant to last. Not every relationship has legs.

 

I agree -- but I don't think you know that until you've exhausted other options. Mike has not. His wife just became invested in trying to fix things, so he needs to give it a try and see where it goes.

 

Probably depressed, probably needs counseling and medication. Symptoms of tuning out, lack of interest in sex, low self esteem etc. People who are depressed often cannot see it themselves. It's not about sucking it up and just getting better, they don't know how.

 

Agree. Mike, you said that your wife is WILLING to get help, but just doesn't take initiative. So perhaps taking some initiative on her behalf would be beneficial to her. Find her a therapist and make the appointment for her. Drive her there if need be.

 

You appear to have swapped an unhealthy addiction, with a healthy one, but it is still an addiction. You are using the bike riding as a method to numb your feelings rather than working them out with your wife. Think about it.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this. I think his refocus on fitness and riding is more of a reclamation of his true pre-marriage self. The bad part of that though, is he hasn't separated his new self from his single self, and he's taking on the old behaviors of flirting, looking toward other women, etc. He has to find that balance of being himself AND being married. This is a lot to work on while also working on his marriage, so it requires quite a bit of balance.

 

I am a firm believer that all affairs, including emotional affairs are as a result of poor coping skills...NOT as a result of circumstance. So I disagree with the previous poster that excused your EA because you were unhappy.

 

Note that I didn't excuse the EA... I just understand how it happened. But Mike already acknowledged that he knew the EAs were wrong and stopped them, so there was no need to go further with that.

 

You commit to bringing issues to her, I would tell her about the EAs. You didn't realize what you were doing, but now you know it is an unhealthy way of handling issues.

 

I don't agree with this advice. Nothing really happened in these EAs (if Mike is being honest) and disclosing them just adds another issue into an already fragile marriage. This is something he can disclose later when the relationship is stronger (assuming it gets stronger).

 

I feel like your thoughts about separating are one of eliminating responsibility and getting to be focused 100% on you for a while. The thing is....that's not what reality would look like. You would have two households to support, visitation, lawyers, anger, etc. it would not be a Mikey's vacation from stress sitch like you imagine.

 

Agree!

 

And...what happens if your wife says, sure lets separate, I am unhappy too, and then proceeds to meet a great guy, who loves her the way she is? Is that the ideal end result for you?

 

Agree. And don't forget the new guy loves your child as well, and your child loves him. That would suck.

[m1ke11]

Referring to your focus on your accomplishments, you said: "What's wrong with that?" Here is what's wrong with that. Your pseudo-accomplishments and sudden burst of endorphins are not a reason to leave your family, or ignore your wife. Engaging in conduct that involves "EAing" other women obviously robs your wife of her emotional needs - because you cannot come home and provide the emotional needs to a second woman (your wife) effectively - no matter how swift you think you are.

 

You have told us how you have struggled, years, with psychological issues of hypochondria and anxiety. Your wife was by your side the entire time. It is a logical conclusion that exercise is helpful for anxiety. Most importantly, you have done a great service to yourself and your family by doing the work in therapy it takes to overcome what is a serious illness. But don't ever forget, the psychological issues you speak are often treated most properly by a psychiatrist. I am not a medical doctor, bot I think it is possible some might refer to hypochondria and anxiety as psychological disorders you may have to cope with your entire life. Sadly, for some, illness of the mind is not so simple as stitching up a wound and waiting for it to heal, and go away.

 

I would imagine this "hypochondria" to be a big pain in the neck to deal with, I think you should focus on the years your wife devoted to that situation. I myself have suffered from severe anxiety for 13 years - it is so bad it causes me to get paranoid sometimes. Paranoia is very scary to the person experiencing it. But the others that have to deal with the paranoid person, I am sure get really annoyed with me sometimes. I have a feeling, there may be a relationship between paranoia and hypochondria - because in both cases, your imagination is running wild, and the fear or concerns the patient is experiencing seem very real. Do you think that is true? Well, at least I do know for a fact, my paranoia issue has been a big pain in the rear end of everyone of my friends.

 

A little more about my anxiety - 13 years of it. For many years, most of the time it was just worries in my head, nervousness. Then it manifested into panic attacks. Once we got that under control with medication - the paranoia started, and that too is controlled with medication. Now, I always have slight tremors, even when I feel normal. But my anxiety at it's worst, like if I'm under a great deal of stress, my tremors are 1-2 inches wide. Seriously. That is how bad anxiety can get as you age. And I am alone. Of course, my case is complicated with bi-polar disease.

 

What would happen if you got sick again? Who could understand your illness? Especially the Hypochondria? Suppose, for no reason you can control, your anxiety returns, despite your exercise program?

 

I'll give you another example. When I was at the grocery store, my tremors were larger than normal that day cause I was worried about my credit card being declined. The checker asked me, "Lady, are your alright? Should we call EMS?" Do you know how embarrassing that was? During that same very stressful month, last July, I started having chest pains along with the anxiety, and that really scared the heck out of me. My blood pressure was sky high too. After reporting to my MD, she ordered me to go to the ER - which I did not want to do (because of my psychiatric condition). But I listened to her, and went. After that, she put me through a huge number of stress and heart tests. The diagnose was that my heart was in normal condition - and the chest pains were due to ANXIETY. I felt like a hypochondriac myself! But those chest pains started out as tightness in the middle of my chest - and then became totally massive pressure on my entire chest. Now my blood pressure medicine has been doubled - due to anxiety.

 

My point to you is that anxiety is a weird illness. It comes and goes. I have absolutely no tremors or anxiety at all as I type this message for you. What I'm trying to explain to you there is a spectrum of different types of anxiety. I have experienced many versions myself since becoming disabled. I have gone as much as two years without symptoms of this weird anxiety. But at times - it is really frightening to see my body tremor as it does.

 

Now I wanted to say something about your wife's TV addiction. I recall, towards the end of my marriage, having a similar issue myself. There was nothing else to do in the evenings. My husband pretty much just went upstairs to watch CNN all evening, and I would bring his meal up to him, and come back to pick up the empty dishes. My husband was obviously seeing someone else during this time - but I only figured that out a couple years into the divorce process. I really did get hooked on TV, cause husband was not interested in talking to me, or taking me anywhere, nor intimacy for years. I also worked on my art projects while I watched my "stupid" TV shows. My doctor felt I was extremely depressed during this period. The TV was an escape for me - and also a routine that I followed.

 

Now that you have your own illness under control, has it occurred to you that you wife may have developed some depression or anxiety herself by being your "caregiver" all these years? And perhaps the obsession with the TV is a symptom of escape? Would you be willing to take care of your wife, and get her the help she needs if she has developed "caregiver" related or other type of depression?

 

Give your wife a reason not to watch "Cops." The evening you described with your wife sounded like a great start.Be nice to your wife. Be good to your wife. Love your wife. Yas

 

PS I hope my personal examples were helpful to you.

 

I appreciate your efforts and your long posts..... But you've got to read my posts a little better. I never suffered from hypochondria and mental issues? Are you confusing me with someone? I stood by my wife for years with her anxiety and self esteem issues. You don't understand how that can wear someone out? Especially when you are taking all the slack and running the household?

 

Why do you keep comparing me to Lance? I am simply proud to have pulled my life back together even if it took an EA to do it. Considering that I thought I was going to have a complete breakdown last June? What kind of spouse and father would I have been at that point? What good would I have been to anyone? And you did read that I ended the EA once I realized what it had become. I mean that part.

 

Really you don't know me, your not reading my posts all the way. Let me just say this:

 

I am going to start taking care of myself by declining extra work, by riding my bike, being faithful and supportive of my wife. I am going to let my wife do whatever she feels is necessary to improve things. We BOTH have work to do. And if this plan doesn't work and I get close to another breakdown? I'm getting out, it's all I can do.

 

I'm sorry you see me as a cheater and can't see any further than that.

[m1ke11]

Mike,

 

You have received some divergence of suggestions here and I am going to toss in another.

 

Not every marriage is meant to last. Not every relationship has legs.

 

When you are married, and you have children, you owe it to the marriage to give it your best shot before deciding to throw in the towel. But ultimately, the decision to do that's and deal with all the associated fallout can only be made by you.

 

We don't know your wife, but many of us on this forum can empathize with her side and voice her concerns to you. But isn't that why you come to an anonymous forum anyway? To get different opinions and suggestions? Take what speaks to you, but remember if it pisses you off you owe it to yourself to really think about what is being said, because those statements likely have some grain of truth.

 

Based on what you said, and extrapolating, I see the following:

 

Your Wife

Probably depressed, probably needs counseling and medication. Symptoms of tuning out, lack of interest in sex, low self esteem etc. People who are depressed often cannot see it themselves. It's not about sucking it up and just getting better, they don't know how.

 

She probably has lost her identity some in the 20 years you have been married. Your daughter is getting older and sometimes we moms have to figure out who we are when we aren't "needed" anymore.

 

Personal experience-I remember once having a meltdown with my husband saying I never got to do what I wanted to do, he asked me what did I WANT to do...I said...I don't know and cried harder. It's funny now, but at the time was not funny.

 

Maybe she feels unattractive or bored or whatever.

 

You didn't mention if she works, but I know that sometimes getting out there with a career helps some of those issues I mentioned above. Counseling and maybe medication might help, but definitely a physical, where you both talk about her lack of sex drive and depression should be considered.

 

You

You appear to have swapped an unhealthy addiction, with a healthy one, but it is still an addiction. You are using the bike riding as a method to numb your feelings rather than working them out with your wife. Think about it.

 

I am a firm believer that all affairs, including emotional affairs are as a result of poor coping skills...NOT as a result of circumstance. So I disagree with the previous poster that excused your EA because you were unhappy. You turned to someone else to cope with your unhappiness, which is always 100% wrong. You will get no pass on that from me.

 

You appear to have taken (actively or passively) total responsibility for the health well being and happiness of your family. (Chores, child, wifes mental health?) And now you realize you don't want the responsibility, or at least not alone, maybe you never wanted it?

 

You want a change to the current family dynamic. To do this the whole family needs to be involved.

 

Successful relationships require that emotional support and problem solving occur within the marriage unit. As a team.

 

Each team member is responsible for themselves and their actions but at problems are addressed together.

 

You do not have a marital team.

 

Not in the addressing of chores, income, children, unhappiness, sex etc. you are both handling it separately. This is a recipe for divorce.

 

I suggest the following actions.

 

Take your romantic holiday with your wife. Tell her how unhappy you have been, and how you know she is also unhappy. And tell her that you both need to be committed to do whatever it takes to fix it. Talk and listen here.

 

You commit to bringing issues to her, I would tell her about the EAs. You didn't realize what you were doing, but now you know it is an unhealthy way of handling issues.

 

Tell her you need help steering the family ship, chores, money, child issues. You want her to initiate sex a whole lot more, because you think she is beautiful and want to be with her.

 

Listen, really listen to her issues too.

 

Flirt, touch, be romantic have a ton of sex.

 

Read the following book together this weekend The Five Love Languages. You can download to an ereader. It's very helpful. Stupidly easy.

 

If you really try and fail then you both mutually throw in the towel knowing you did what you must.

 

I feel like your thoughts about separating are one of eliminating responsibility and getting to be focused 100% on you for a while. The thing is....that's not what reality would look like. You would have two households to support, visitation, lawyers, anger, etc. it would not be a Mikey's vacation from stress sitch like you imagine.

 

And...what happens if your wife says, sure lets separate, I am unhappy too, and then proceeds to meet a great guy, who loves her the way she is? Is that the ideal end result for you?

 

Again, not all marriages have legs. Maybe yours doesn't...who knows.

 

IIWII

 

Cozy, if you start a thread with your details I will post for you there.

 

 

Thanks so much for your well thought out post. In actuality my wife knows everything. She knows about the EAs she knows exactly why I feel like I do. She has been frustrated, up till now, with the fact that I find her changes hard to believe. The point of the holiday is to be together. I don't have any expectations of sex and don't want any expectations either. The point of the holiday is to reconnect and hopefully set a pattern of many more holidays to come. We need them.

 

She recognizes the need for help. She has started taking meds and this has helped tremendously. She is making some really big changes. But like cozy said, why does it have to come to this before those changes are made? Why? What the scene of her 43 year old husband bawling like a little boy in front of the kids didn't wake her up? I care very deeply for my daughters health and well being and I despise my wife's seemingly indifference. That ones going to be tough to get over. But I am going to try with everything I have. It's what's best for everyone.

 

Btw- for everyone to understand.... The part about me lean and working out and all that..... Is really just me saying "my body isn't the reason she doesn't want me". That's all that was. My friends all know me as a very humble person even if my online persona doesn't come off that way.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Mike,

 

Loads and loads of posters will say it took something dramatic to wake them up.

 

It happens.

 

Don't let that prevent you from accepting what is offered, if you can.

 

Glad you have been truthful with your wife.

 

Best of luck to both of you.

 

Read the book.

 

IIWII

[Yasuandio]

Really you don't know me, your not reading my posts all the way. Let me just say this:

 

I am going to start taking care of myself by declining extra work, by riding my bike, being faithful and supportive of my wife. I am going to let my wife do whatever she feels is necessary to improve things. We BOTH have work to do. And if this plan doesn't work and I get close to another breakdown? I'm getting out, it's all I can do.

 

I'm sorry you see me as a cheater and can't see any further than that.

 

I am sorry about the portion of my post that obviously was meant for another thread. But maybe you can figure out which parts were written specifically for you. Just minus the anxiety and hypochondria issues - that was someone else's thread, and I sincerely apologize for wrongly atributing these Problematic issues to you. My comments are designed to help you, or I would not bother. Sometimes I make mistakes. Again, I am extremely sorry for the error I made. I hope you were able to discern the portions that were for you. Yas

 

PS Does anyone know where I read about the person with those conditions? I worried I'm having delusions. I would have sworn I read it here. I feel really bad that I made this mistake. My apologies to the LS community, also.

[m1ke11]

I am sorry about the portion of my post that obviously was meant for another thread. But maybe you can figure out which parts were written specifically for you. Just minus the anxiety and hypochondria issues - that was someone else's thread, and I sincerely apologize for wrongly atributing these Problematic issues to you. My comments are designed to help you, or I would not bother. Sometimes I make mistakes. Again, I am extremely sorry for the error I made. I hope you were able to discern the portions that were for you. Yas

 

PS Does anyone know where I read about the person with those conditions? I worried I'm having delusions. I would have sworn I read it here. I feel really bad that I made this mistake. My apologies to the LS community, also.

 

No worries. It's all good and I understand the good intentions. I can sift through and figure out what was meant for me. Don't worry about it.

[pteromom]

She recognizes the need for help. She has started taking meds and this has helped tremendously. She is making some really big changes. But like cozy said, why does it have to come to this before those changes are made? Why? What the scene of her 43 year old husband bawling like a little boy in front of the kids didn't wake her up?

 

It has to click. The crying may have come across differently than you intended. It isn't until someone "gets" how their behavior is contributing to the problem that they start making changes.

 

She may have attributed your crying to guilt over your EAs, or if you were crying at the same time you told her about the EAs, she may have even been glad you were hurting.

 

You want her to forget the past - the EAs - and move forward, so you need to give her the same respect. Work from where you are now, not from the past.

 

I care very deeply for my daughters health and well being and I despise my wife's seemingly indifference. That ones going to be tough to get over. But I am going to try with everything I have. It's what's best for everyone.

 

Have you talked to her about that issue? What does she say?

 

Btw- for everyone to understand.... The part about me lean and working out and all that..... Is really just me saying "my body isn't the reason she doesn't want me". That's all that was. My friends all know me as a very humble person even if my online persona doesn't come off that way.

 

For what it's worth, I didn't take that comment as arrogance at all.

[Misadventure]

I guess part of the problem is the extremes. It's like all or nothing. And I get that the all means they are doing everything they can think of to make it work, and I get that I need to just go if I'm not going to try...IDK..I'm rambling.

 

It's just so discouraging, for me, that I wasn't worth all this effort before. That is heartbreaking for me. Heartbreaking.

 

It's ok to ramble and I am so sorry you are hurting.

 

 

I am going to start taking care of myself by declining extra work, by riding my bike, being faithful and supportive of my wife. I am going to let my wife do whatever she feels is necessary to improve things. We BOTH have work to do. And if this plan doesn't work and I get close to another breakdown? I'm getting out, it's all I can do.

 

I'm sorry you see me as a cheater and can't see any further than that.

 

Not everything is just black and white..but reading you try and justify your EA and then go on about it almost with no sense of your own actions.. regardless how you meant to write it, it sounded very ..let's just say, not a good light.

 

I am hoping you will both work it out, but focus also on your own part..it takes two to tango. Maybe ask yourself what you can live with and live without and also be fair to the wife at the same time?

 

You will probably see changes in her at first.. and she will probably see changes from you at first. But can you honestly promise yourself you won't think of another EA again or any kind? Rupaul dressed himself up beautifully everyday, dresses, make up...but at the end of the day he was still a man who looked great in drag.

[m1ke11]

On the cycling:

 

It's been part of my life forever. I started racing BMX when I was six. The problem is not that I started riding again, the problem was when I quit.

 

In the big picture the cycling is not important until you understand that lately I am very anxious and uptight and therefor hard to deal with for my wife. After a ride I am super mellow, calm and understanding. Ya maybe it is a drug but one with positive outcomes.

 

Yesterday I was about ten miles from home when I called my wife and asked if she would pick a place to eat and wanted to know if she would have dinner with me. It was after a ride when I decided that Ptero a person that I've never met, was making more sense then me and my best friend combined.

 

I've really felt pretty good all day because I feel the decision was the right one.

 

So regardless of what the riding really is, or how it came about, it's been good for me.

 

I hope cozy can find resolution.

[m1ke11]

It has to click. The crying may have come across differently than you intended. It isn't until someone "gets" how their behavior is contributing to the problem that they start making changes.

 

She may have attributed your crying to guilt over your EAs, or if you were crying at the same time you told her about the EAs, she may have even been glad you were hurting.

 

You want her to forget the past - the EAs - and move forward, so you need to give her the same respect. Work from where you are now, not from the past.

 

 

 

Have you talked to her about that issue? What does she say?

 

 

 

For what it's worth, I didn't take that comment as arrogance at all.

 

For clarification the crying happened always after some episode or scene regarding my daughter. The day I went home early from work because my daughter wasn't at school. I found her in bed and talked to her a bit. Looked down to find a bloody sock. She had been cutting. Later when my wife was home from work I broke down while she was upstairs watching tv like not a care in the world. Later I've talked to her and and found out she was escaping. Just trying to cope. I get that but it's hard not to carry a grudge. This is just one example. My daughter went through severe depression last year and I was the one that tried to help her through it all the while being told I was the worst dad ever. My daughter absolutely declined therapy. Would not go. Threatened suicide. This is why I broke down several times. I wasn't getting help from my wife. My wife never cried. I'm going to have to forgive her for this and it's not going to be easy. I'm fully committed to understanding her side. I told her that last night and mean it. My wife sounds like an awful person I know but she is my best friend, and I'm starting to believe that she just couldn't deal.

 

I want to see how things go this year. The first day of school for my daughter was today and my wife was unsuccessfully trying to get my daughter out of bed. At least it wasn't me trying to do it by myself.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Mike,

 

As you give more information I see your picture more clearly.

 

I still think that you are currently using biking to medicated your feelings, previously you were drinking.

 

Your wife disconnects from stress with TV and food and isolating herself.

 

Your daughter disconnects with cutting.

 

See the pattern?

 

Please understand, I have a serious amount of experience with mental illness, suicide, etc. this is a family problem.

 

Maybe you need to have everyone do family counseling. Couple sessions all three of you before everyone starts in individual counseling.

 

I really hope you all find a situation that is comfortable and happy for all of you.

 

IIWII

[pteromom]

For clarification the crying happened always after some episode or scene regarding my daughter. The day I went home early from work because my daughter wasn't at school. I found her in bed and talked to her a bit. Looked down to find a bloody sock. She had been cutting. Later when my wife was home from work I broke down while she was upstairs watching tv like not a care in the world. Later I've talked to her and and found out she was escaping. Just trying to cope. I get that but it's hard not to carry a grudge. This is just one example. My daughter went through severe depression last year and I was the one that tried to help her through it all the while being told I was the worst dad ever. My daughter absolutely declined therapy. Would not go. Threatened suicide. This is why I broke down several times. I wasn't getting help from my wife. My wife never cried. I'm going to have to forgive her for this and it's not going to be easy. I'm fully committed to understanding her side. I told her that last night and mean it. My wife sounds like an awful person I know but she is my best friend, and I'm starting to believe that she just couldn't deal.

 

I want to see how things go this year. The first day of school for my daughter was today and my wife was unsuccessfully trying to get my daughter out of bed. At least it wasn't me trying to do it by myself.

 

How heartbreaking!!! I don't think your wife sounds like an awful person - I think expecting your wife, who is dealing with depression, to know how to help your daughter's depression, when she can't even help herself, is unreasonable. Your wife doesn't know what to do.

 

It doesn't give her a free pass to ignore your daughter's issues, but I am afraid this one is up to you. You need to take the lead in getting both your wife AND your daughter some help.

 

I hope your daughter has since had some kind of therapy. Cutting is serious stuff, and she needs to learn other coping skills soon, or her threats can become reality. This is a good website, with stories to help you understand your daughter's emotions, as well as coping skills you can work on with her: Psyke.org - Coping But she really needs a professional.

[m1ke11]

Mid Life Crisis anyone? Anyone?

 

That is my diagnosis for the day.

 

I just see a big **** bomb ready to explode all over you man!

 

Mid Life Crisis (shaking my head)

 

You didn't read any of this except for maybe the first post did you

[m1ke11]

I know everyone needs help. Why am I the only one in counseling right?

 

Daughter refuses any and all help. According to my wife, she's over and done with the depression and anxiety and even the self esteem issues. I caught her admiring herself in front of the mirror the other day maybe it's true. Meds seem to work. I think she will seek counseling soon.

 

As for me I'm going to continue therapy and gain an understanding of how to help myself and take care of myself. Then I can be a better husband and father. I think that's the right sequence.

 

As for riding, I'm not stopping. I feel great physically and it's leading to some positive mental changes like getting rid of my own anxiety and relaxing me. If its doing the job way better than the alcohol. Besides I was never cut out to be an alcoholic anyway I've been riding bikes for so many years its impossible for me to think of just using it to mask something. It's really just finding myself again.

[Yasuandio]

How heartbreaking!!! I don't think your wife sounds like an awful person - I think expecting your wife, who is dealing with depression, to know how to help your daughter's depression, when she can't even help herself, is unreasonable. Your wife doesn't know what to do.

 

It doesn't give her a free pass to ignore your daughter's issues, but I am afraid this one is up to you. You need to take the lead in getting both your wife AND your daughter some help.

 

I hope your daughter has since had some kind of therapy. Cutting is serious stuff, and she needs to learn other coping skills soon, or her threats can become reality. This is a good website, with stories to help you understand your daughter's emotions, as well as coping skills you can work on with her: Psyke.org - Coping But she really needs a professional.

 

This is an outstanding post. Your wife is an adult, and she is married to you, and she has a stake in the game -- I bet anything she wants to preserve her marriage to you. That makes getting her the proper mental health assistance much easier. You have a ton of influence here. Your praise will mean the world to her - and will give her the motivation she needs. You know yourself, it ain't easy. Especially for us non-athletes.

 

Daughter is another story. Depression is one thing. Cutting is a whole new ball game. You do not need your daughter's consent for her treatment. [i.e., she is begging you for help in her own sick way]. She needs to be in a treatment center, not school. There is no other choice, period.

 

Cutting anywhere on her body, could result in injuring a major blood flow vein or artery by accident. When you go to wake her for school tomorrow morning, how would you feel to find her bleed out from a major artery in her ankle she was unaware of during her cutting session? Think about that.

 

I don't mean to frighten you - but you should be frightened. Remember, you do not need her permission. She already is angry at the world anyway. Team up with your wife and make some decisions about this. There is a show called Intervention - where you may be able to tune into a specific episode on this topic with On Demand or your cable system. Just look it up on the net. Yas