Support needed-Unusual behaviour from wife

[Baileys2]

That makes it tough then to keep a relationship on track if any matter of fact communication or some general observation/criticism is perceived to be an attack or in my wife's case, abuse. I have always found her hypersensitive to any form of criticism, not that any of us like it particularly, but like when we were married first time round, having questioned if her health was the real reason she would not accompany me to the cinema, after using her illness as her reason for not going for an entire year, she divorces me and stated in the petition, I had been "abusive" to her over her health. On that basis, whatever I was say or do in our second marriage, I was always going to end up getting labeled the same again, abusive by proxy, simply for having conflicting opinions or not sugar coating my words when talking to her.

 

Not good for my psychological health that is for sure. No wonder I have been questioning my own reality as well as my own sanity.

[Porridge]

Baileys, the following just happened to me in the last hour.

 

A few months ago I started a business and the wife mentioned that it'd be useful to have a new mobile/cell phone so that she could do sales calls. I agreed and invested in one as a business expense. I was contracted in for 24 months.

 

When we split, she kept the phone and began to use it to extortionate levels. Although most calls and texts were free, she was picture messaging men at 50p per photo and also calling '08' numbers which carried a charge. When the bill came in, it was sky high.

 

I asked her for payment of her share of the bill and suggested she use 'whatsapp' or whatever it's called to send photos for free. She became evasive and didn't want to pay.

 

I chased this up about five days later and told her it was not on to stop paying for a phone that isn't hers and which she's using to excessive levels without any intention to pay for her usage. With that, she got her parents to drive her to mine, whereby she handed over some cash and told me that if I ever spoke to her like that again she would call the police!

 

Next, all usage on the phone stopped but I later found out she had sold the handset. It wasn't hers to sell, so I told her she either continued paying for the monthly rental charge or i'd take it up as a civil matter through the courts.

 

She then claims i'm being abusive to her for threatening court action. Remember, she's just sold my phone and left me with a £550 contract to oblige, but in her world, I was the evil one.

 

After giving her another four weeks to propose a remedy of some kind (I really didn't want to go down this road), I finally called her today and told her that it's clear she has no intention of resolving this issue and that i'd be sending my claim to the court today. In response, she once again claims that i'm being abusive and picking on her at a time when 'she hasn't got the mental capacity to function'.

 

I have no sympathy. These people know their problems and will often use them to their advantage. They'll happily wallow in their mental issues if it means gaining an advantage of some kind, but will also flip you the birdy at the drop of a hat if there's nothing to be gained.

 

Downtown really summed it up when he likened these PD's to children. Their reasoning and thought processes are so juvenile that it becomes a real issue when trying to operate in the adult world.

 

Just for the record, you weren't being abusive. This is a person with extreme issues attempting to deflect guilt onto you because she cannot handle any criticism herself.

[Baileys2]

Hi Porridge, Its nice to know I am not alone with all this. I feel for you and can see so many similarities about the manipulation that goes on. I would never dream of manipulating anyone, wither I was in a relationship with them or not. In my wife's case over the cinema, if she had said to me that she just didn't want to go, I would have not brought it up again. But to divorce me, when she had in fact, created the entire situation is just madness.

 

What my wife does not seem to get, having walked out now on 4 husbands, 3 of them within one year of marriage, is that she is directly contributing to the marriage failing, and it is only failing because she walks away instead of discussing issues like an adult. What I have got is that "I tried to talk to you" "but you never listen" although hen I asked for examples about when she had tried to tell me she was unhappy, she changes the subject, leaving me dangling, and her triumphant that she did try to tell me and because I wasn't listening, its my fault we have failed in our marriage. My head has been like a shed, I have gone round in circles thinking, and I abusive, did she tell me, was I not listening, amI really this bad that she left me AGAIN....

 

Its a wonder I am still here. right now, I am Mr don't exist. Refusing all contact. I feel like I am dealing with an infant, not a grown woman who devoted herself to me every day for four years.

[Baileys2]

I recently heard from my wife after nearly 4 months of ignoring me. I had asked many times to talk and to discuss our marriage and her reasons for leaving me again, but all attempts to talk have been refused. She did however, send me a list of her reasons for ending our marriage, and this has led to me to an even greater level of bemusement and confusion, and distress on my part.

 

On the back of my adult son’s account, who lived with us daily throughout our marriage (and mine) who described us both as a loving and devoted couple, with a loving home atmosphere and with very rare disagreements and no conflict of any kind, my wife has said that she left because felt so on edge waiting for me to erupt over any little thing.

 

She said that she had been into my adult son's room plenty of times in tears with me having reduced her to tears by my horrid treatment of her, insisting that my son will remember these occasions and that and if he chooses not to confirm this, he is simply being loyal to me. My son is totally bemused by this suggestion, having only ever heard one occasion of me raising my voice which is documented in earlier entries. He insisted he has no idea what my wife is talking about and if I am ever wrong, my son will not hesitate in telling me, we have a very open and honest relationship.

 

My wife also stated that she went to church in tears on a number of occasions after I had again reduced her to tears by my unreasonable and aggrieve behaviour. But I did not wake up on Sunday mornings until my wife woke me with a cuppa before immediately leaving for church, (I didn't go with her but stayed home with the kids) so I have no idea where this even comes from. My wife would never have been seen in public upset so this suggestion just bemuses me even more. Also, she never once said what I had done that had upset her, and when an incident of any kind happened, I never hear the end of it, and she always follows up her feelings with texts and emails on whatever subject had upset her (like using an electric scooter below). So I am left being accused of a number of times of being so horrid I reduced her to tears but no account as to what or when i am meant to have done these horrid things.

 

My wife went on to accuse me of being rude and insensitive to her father because sometimes when he visited I would be on the telephone. He came infrequently as my wife went to see her father every day, as he lives in the same village (how is being not the phone a sign of me being horrid?). Also, I have some memory problems and one time I had asked to my wife’s father to just allow me to finish what I was saying so I did not lose my train of thought, all verity politely, (my wives father is in his 70’s and I had a pretty good relationship with him) anyway, I am now accused by my wife of telling him to “shut up”. I just cannot take it in.

 

Another example of me being horrible to my wife’s father included an accusation of me moving his belongings off my daughters desk one time when he stayed with us about 2 years ago. Not that I can remember this at all, but when her father stayed, he stayed in my wife son's bedroom for a couple of weeks as my daughter shared a room with my wives daughter and the room had bunk beds, so her father would never have gone into my daughters room anyway. To be fare, if his belongings were moved off or around a desk, there were 3 adults and 3 children in the house, anyone could have moved them, but my wife is instant it was me and that it is evince of me being horrid. His belongings were not thrown away or broken, jus moved somehow. I just cannot take in how this is a reason to leave me…

 

Lastly, a few conversations when I had been slightly critical or I have had a differing opinion to my wife has been exaggerated beyond belief, including me “screaming in her face”, “swearing at her” and having “rages”, when we had nothing more than a conversation that her position or point of view was disagreed with.

 

What is hard is that she has refused to discus the allegation but when I bumped into her recently, she was adamant that these allegation are true, and she seemed to me to genuinely believe them, just as she had appeared to genuinely believe that I had been abusive to her (and her two young children) during our first marriage causing her to leave me, even though 3 and a half years later she admitted that I had in actual fact, been really good to them all, which in turn led to us getting back together again in 2009.

 

She is instant that this time I had been frequently aggressive to her, raging, abusive, insulting, and just horrible at other times, an account as far removed as it is possible to get, given we were devoted to each other, rarely ever had so much as a cross word and this account is evidenced in the text and emails my wife sent me daily, as well as the account my children and our mutual friends, and also by a close member of my wife’s own family who saw us together frequently.

 

My wife was also very angry that I had not supported her suggestion that she needed an electric scooter to allow her to go around our local shopping complex. My wife has no trouble walking as a rule, and we have visited this shopping mall over 40 times together, perhaps more, and she frequently walks miles with me on any given day out. Occasionally she has stopped for a rest if she has been on her feel for a long time, but so have I. I had refused to pander to her obvious need to focus unnecessary attention of her illnesses and that has led her to feel abused by my insensitivity.

 

Interestingly, this relative said that my wife has a history of making false allegations (though she herself always seems to genuinely believe these things to have happened), including my wife’s first husband being a violent aggressive abuser of women (not likely), I was the 2nd husband who she first left after accusing me of being abusive to her (and her two young children) after I had called her selfish for using her illness as a reason not to go to the cinema every week for over a year, when it was evident that she was well enough to go shopping, to church, our with her friends, and alike, only to retract it entirely 3 and half years later that led to us getting back together, (though now she is once again insisting that I was abusive to her and her children during our first marriage).

 

A further allegation was that her 3rd husband who she divorced after 6 months of marriage was an alcoholic transvestite who dressed up in women's clothes (though she admitted to me that she never saw him drink but having found empty alcohol bottles in the house was proof to her that he was one, and therefore, as he posed a danger to her and her children as well as their respectable way of life, she had no choice buy to leave that marriage too. She also made allegations that two senior members of the in laws (including her first husband’s own father) had tried it make a sexual pass at her, and that as a 16 years old working in local hospital, my wife had made an allegations that a medical professional had also done the same, all fictions allegations according to my wife’s relative.

 

What is hard for me to understand, as I have heard of these allegation too directly from my wife, is that she truly believes these incidents to have taken place, perceiving herself to be a victim each time, and she speaks with real conviction.

 

Her relative (and I) believes her physical illness of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is not real or is vastly exaggerated, and that most of her symptom are a result of her Anxiety Disorder that she is treated for (though my wife reuses to admit she has any psychological symptoms) and perhaps something more serious effecting her mental health. What is clear, even with her own family, she refuses to have her point of view challenged, and just shuts people down, dismisses their opinions or changes the subject if they do not agree with the allegations she is making, just as she is doing with me.

 

I lost my wife the first time around over things that I had not done and that had never actually happened. It now feels like history has repeated itself and I feel so helpless.

 

I just wonder if anyone has any idea what might actuality be going on. I know people tell lies but this is more than that and actually, my wife is walking away from what was a devoted relationship, she seemed so genuinely happy, 99 % of the time, she loses a man she has showered in love and affection, she could not have been a better more devoted wife, tyne kids were happy, we have a lovely home, together we are financially secure and she never asked for anything from me when she leaves, there is nothing in this for her to benefit from at all, but the slightest bit of relationship stress or difficulty, she changes overnight into someone who is resentful of her life with me, every little incident when i was not perfect is remembered and brought up, vastly inaccurate, levelled with allegations of frequent abusive behaviour, when the evidence of those who have seen us together, my and any children observations and my wife’s relatives and her own account too in every email and text message to me that recorded her as saying that she was in love with me, happy and excited at having wonderful and future together. She then turns overnight into someone cold, indifferent, to me, our history, our life together, my children, it is like none of us matter, she loses all love, all feeling, all care, its like me do not exist, that none of us matter, yet 24 hours before we fell out, I had the happiest wife in the world in my arms.

 

This is I am sure a lot for anyone to ge their head around but as time goes by, I am getting more not less confused with what is going on and some addition thoughts would be really helpful. Her relative has offered to help but just does not know how to.. Same here.

[Downtown]

What is hard for me to understand...is that she truly believes these incidents to have taken place, perceiving herself to be a victim each time, and she speaks with real conviction....I just wonder if anyone has any idea what might actuality be going on. I know people tell lies but this is more than that.

Yes, Baileys, what you are describing does not sound like lying. As Rev and Porridge explained back in September -- when Rev also was talking (post #18) about his being dressed as a woman and placed in a Mexican prison, LOL -- you seem to be describing "splitting" and "projection" behaviors. If your W has strong traits of BPD or NPD (or BOTH), she relies heavily on those primitive ego defenses because her emotional development likely was frozen when she was 3 or 4 years old.

 

When that happens at such a young age, the child never learns how to integrate the good and bad aspects of her own personality. The result is that, absent years of therapy, she never is able to tolerate ambiguities, uncertainties, dualities, and other grey areas in her interpersonal relationships. She therefore will shoehorn everyone (including herself) into a black or white box -- i.e., she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone, moving him from one polar extreme to the other in just ten seconds, based solely on a minor comment or infraction.

 

This process will be most evident in the way she "rewrites history," a behavior that is a hallmark of BPDers and narcissists. This "rewriting" occurs because her subconscious mind projects hurtful thoughts and feelings onto her spouse to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality.

 

The reason that projection is such a wonderful ego defense is that it works entirely at the subconscious level, allowing her conscious mind to be convinced that the outrageous allegation is absolutely true. And a week later, when she is claiming the exact opposite, she will be just as convinced that it is true also. The true beauty of projection, then, is that it is entirely guilt free because no lying is involved.

 

If this seems difficult to believe, keep in mind that we all did this very same projection during early childhood -- and many of us started relying on it heavily again during our early teens, when the hormones hit. Even during our adult years, we "Nons" (non-disordered adults) continue to use projection whenever we experience intense feelings such as infatuation or strong anger. Of course, we are so familiar with this happening that, by the time we are in high school, we all know our judgment goes out the window whenever we have intense feelings. This is why we try to keep our mouths shut until we have time to cool down -- and try to wait a year or two before buying the ring.

 

The main difference with BPDers and narcissists, then, is that they do it far more frequently. And, on top of that, they rely far more heavily on splitting. The result is that they will subconsciously project a flaw or bad thought onto you and then, because they cannot tolerate ambiguity, they will decide that small flaw implies you are "all bad."

 

In that way, your W seems to be projecting feelings of animosity onto you (e.g., the imaginary scooter incident and your imagined animosity toward her father) and then concluding you are an "all black" H who must be divorced.

 

Likewise, at the end of my 15 year marriage, my BPDer exW had me arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail for three days -- during which time she obtained a R/O barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a D in this state). Although the D was finalized six years ago, she still believes that I am a violent man who fabricates a new lie every week.

[Baileys2]

Downtown, you explain things really well. I researched vulnerable narcissist and waif BPD and she seems to fit in a mix of both, but splitting is very evident, though the way you explain it, I understand so much better.

 

I guess this all means I'm helpless to do anything other than say goodbye, something I have fought desperately to avoid. What seems to happen when my wife leaves me, is that she goes on to have a another relationship, only for that not to work out, only for her then to come back and butter me up once again and we start all over, with the same outcome each time.

 

What is hard is that even when she comes back and is apologetic, she doesn't add much weight to the thinking errors that triggered her leaving the previous time, it's like is is just washed under the carpet. What is striking is that when she is seeing me as all good, which can last on a conscious level for 3 or 4 years, her love seems very genuine, she is so thoughtful, attentive, caring, I am put first, each day, every day bar her obvious need to talk about her health issues which is a daily occurrence. But her love does seem the genuine article. But at this time, she is also collecting a list of my wrongs, and that seems to include minor things like saying no, and having a difference of opinion, that is then replayed as me screaming abuse in her face.

 

I never knew life could be so complicated. All my brothers and sisters have 20 year plus happy marriages. Me, I feel doomed lol.

 

Her relatives want to help but they are as confused and helpless as I am.

[revitup]

Downtown , You know I love the Mexican prison in a dress line my brother!!

 

Gosh, It's incredible to be back online here today.I needed to remember how nutty my own life had become.

 

Downtown has nailed this one really good.There is no rational explanation which explains irrational behavior.Your woman has like many been altered in some way that none of us here or anywhere else for that matter,can ever change.

 

Expect the expected.Stay strong and move on.

 

Have any of you (I have been gone for a while) saw the BPD Wife video "The Nail" ?

 

Man that little video is just like my life

 

REVITUP

[Downtown]

Have any of you (I have been gone for a while) saw the BPD Wife video "The Nail" ? Man that little video is just like my life.

Yes, Rev, you must be referring to the short video on YouTube at

. It's hilarious and so concisely captures what it's like when you are living with a BPDer.

[revitup]

YES YES YES Downtown,that little video is so funny now to me that I can't stop smiling just thinking about me sitting on that couch with her nail in my face,thinking, "Why doesn't she just let me pull that nail out"?

 

Now,I can spot that nail from a hundred miles away!

 

REVITUP

[Baileys2]

Hey Downtown and Rev it up, you guys have really helped me you know. Its a lonely old world when your life is falling apart, the one you love turns on a sixpence from being a doting adorable wife into someone who sees you as the devil and accuses you of all sorts, made worse when no one around you believes you. Downtowns last message about splitting just helped everything slot into place, and not that video just nailed it, pardon the pun.

 

I think with a bit of time i will be ok. It doesn't help that my wife has convinced her two children, my step children that all her allegations are true, they no longer want anything to do with me, or to do with my children, their step brothers and sisters, and we all live in the same small village. But ultimately, coming to terms with my life has been built around a very disordered thinker, its little wonder that I am in exactly the same boat now as I was in 2006, that being my wife walking out on me over some minor issue, turning it into the drama of a lifetime, with her once again refusing to consider that she has a nail sticking out of her head

 

At least in time, if will likely find a nice woman to share my life with and have a reasonable chance of things working out. I doubt my wives future on the relationship front will turn out any different than ours has today. I have a tough few months ahead of me, but at least I understand how I have arrived at this point once again.

 

Thanks guys

[Porridge]

Hi Guys,

 

Interesting catch up and wise words from Downtown as usual. Bailey, regarding all the lies and allegations, this again typifies a PD and is something we've all suffered.

 

I haven't posted anything yet but I was in court a few days ago to respond to an attempted injunction that the BPDex applied for. Her statement was about six pages long and in summary tried to say that i'd emotionally abused and controlled her for nine years! It even went into bizarre claims such as I made her feel useless when she struggled to breast feed our youngest child! Just utter rubbish, I might have an opinion on some things but breastfeeding was never one of them!

 

In my response statement I referred to her BPD and previous allegations she'd made over the years:

 

- Her claim that her first husband was a heroin addict that attempted to rape her in her sleep. He was actually a 120lb diabetic and quite ill.

 

- A man who she met after her first marriage collapsed was alleged to have strangled her.

 

- Another man allegedly befriended her but then imprisoned her in his house and sold her for sex to drug dealers.

 

- Her former employer had bought her a house on the proviso that she be available for sex whenever he turned up in the drive.

 

- Another employer (her boss) who had built an obsession for her and had bugged her car so he could track her whereabouts. She would then make pretend calls to the police so they could intercept him before he arrived.

 

- A man who ordered his gangster friend to get her and ended up beating her to the floor and raping her. The police actually proved she'd created the injuries with a saucepan and a sewing needle.

 

There's loads of others things too but i'm sure you'll see the similarities.

 

In addition to this I advised them of:

 

- Her impulsivity which has seen her lose weight dramatically, get in serious financial trouble, have episodes of stealing etc.

- Her recklessness such as naked photo exchanges and other communication with men online.

- Her attempted suicide five years ago

- Her self harming

- Her compulsive lying

 

So anyway, I went to court armed with this information and anticipating a heated contested hearing. Far from it though, there was too much against the ex and she couldn't handle answering such questions about her past. So she withdrew her application at the last minute and didn't turn up.

 

I still had to go to court and formally request that the case be dismissed. The Magistrates (three judges) agreed without hesitation and then began enquiring about our children. They made it clear that they were well cottoned on to what had really happened and were very concerned by the ex's inability to control herself. They also made it clear that they have concerns for the children's welfare with mother, but that's something I won't go into in this post.

 

Before I left, one judge quietly told me to 'keep a diary and record everything'. Good advice and one to take for anyone who has children with a BPD.

 

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is not to spend one second considering the things your ex said about you. It's a complete distortion of reality and just isn't true.

 

As my father says when he's getting seriously p***ed off - 'you cannot reason with a whacko'.

[Baileys2]

Porridge, that's one hell of a time your having. What is so sad is that these disordered thinkers believe we are the disordered ones and if only they took a step back, they would realise (no they wouldn't) that the person they are accusing of being abusive, is the same person who loves them, cares for them and forgives them, even though we are on the receiving end of all the lies and dysfunction.

 

I had kind of convinced myself that if only I could get the wife talking, we somehow would be OK. Not now. I realise that in effect, I am dealing with two people at the same time. The subconscious one that keeps a record of all my failings then sticks them in a washing machine to mix everything up, and the conscious one, who seems to genuinely love our life, but is very sensitive to criticism and alike, and each day the conscious one sends messages to the subconscious one until one day, the subconscious one takes over, and says, WE have had enough of this guy, he is a total **** (I have been keeping a list of his wrongdoings) and WE (conscious and subconscious) need to get the hell out of here.

 

When my wife entered into another marriage and that ended so abruptly just like our first marriage did, the conscious one came back and had another look at me and remembered once again what i decent bloke I am and what a great life we had together, only for the unconscious one to come along for the ride, eventually taking over once again.

 

I now realise that I have no chance whatsoever of ever having a normal life with my wife, and after Downtowns informative reply, I have started sleeping better, and have stopped obsessing as to how to get my wife back. I would not go as far as to say I am ok now, but I am aware that I was flogging a dead horse and that my second marriage was doomed to failure front eh very first day we got back together.

[UnbreakMyHeart]

Baileys2. Thank you for this post although I do wish you hadn't found yourself in the sad position of having to post it.

 

I posted my story a few weeks ago and, although I haven't posted much since, I have been using the place - reading the experiences of everyone else has, beyond a doubt, truly helped with my recovery. It is coming up to 7 weeks since we separated and I am starting to heal... very slowly.

 

I had to comment on this whole discussion though. I have read it through a couple of times and I suddenly feel like someone has turned on a very big light switch. I see lots of behaviours of my STBEXH whether that be BPD or NPD. The inability to hold down a job for any regular length of time. It was a running joke whilst we were married - he liked to talk A LOT and we would regularly all say 'Lets all pay attention to (Name)'. Life and soul of the party one minute, Couldn't be bothered to get up the sofa to go to the bathroom the next minute. Inability to take responsibilities for his actions - so if he quit his job it would just be assumed we 'would manage'. He would quit these jobs (I swear he has had at least 30 in the last 10 years - probably more) on the proviso it wasn't a great place to work (he is a chef) so dirty kitchen, horrid staff, not enough of a challenge. I supported him everytime but... I have just had a huge lightbulb moment - It is him with the issues

 

Ah well - he checked out on 10 years of being together. It is totally up to him to realise these issues now with absolutely no input from me

[Baileys2]

Hi UnbreakMyHeart, welcome to my world.

 

What is striking in my case is that I could not see it. There was a pattern, leaving her first husband accusing him of being abusive, violent, of road rage incidents, of forcing himself on her during intercourse when he was struggling to perform (that allegation prevented our sex life getting off the ground during our first marriage as I wrongly believed she had been traumatised - during our second marriage after I said sex should involve us both, a complete turn around and full participation).

 

She left our first marriage after I had challenged her health being the real issue with us not being able to go to the cinema, causing her to walk out, divorce me, accuse me of being abusive to her over her health, over money, AND towards her two young children. She then meets another man, dates him for a year, marries him, then six months into that marriage, she discovers some empty bottles and decides he is an alcoholic. Divorcing him after he refuses to get treatment. She told me that she never saw him drunk or smelt alcohol on his breath, but convinced me her life was so bad she had to kick him out to protect her and her two children and I believed her, word for word. It is only now that she has walked out on me yet again after only 1 year of our second marriage that the questions started flowing. 4 husbands, all left, 3 left within 1 year of marriage, all men abusers of one description of another.

 

Truth is, when I was drunk, I did text her a few home truths, oooops, but it was the first time in 12 years I had been drunk and she had already annoyed me by not joining in the family BBQ. It wasn't and abusive text, I just referred to her sometimes being boring.

 

But I never expected her to abandon out marriage this time. We had gone nearly 4 years with only one argument, she was or appeared so very happy. I had never been treated better, or more consistently. We were like two teenagers in love, it was magical. But once I had upset her, she not only leaves me, but comes out with all these wild allegations, some so pathetic in seriousness it beggars belief, like me asking her to roll over in bed, and not wanting to take our daughters to a particle caravan site, as in my opinion, the place was a dump. These being some of the reasons she had to leave me and examples of my unreasonable behaviour.

 

But then comes some total fabrication of me moving her dads belongings off my daughters desk 2 years ago, (like that's a big deal, and there were 3 adults and 3 children in the house at the time, and guess who gets the blame. It was not as if I was ever asked about it at the time, or anything was broken and in fact, moving some toiletries etc, so what, what does it matter who did it, but to say that was a reason to leave a loving marriage, it again beggars belief)...

 

and then the few times we have had a difference of opinion, I am accused of screaming in her face, swearing at her and calling her an F.....ng useless wife. She even went as far to say that EVERY time she disagreed with me, which was hardly ever, she insisted I would tell her and her to children to leave. It never happened once, let alone frequently.

 

It left me so confused I have doubted my own mind, I believed everything she said to begin with, it is only after hearing from a family member of my wife about lots of other instances of perverse allegations and help from this forum, did I truly begin to question her mental health rather than mine.

 

I work with managing offenders, some mentally distorted, I just could not see the signs I was married to a mentally disordered female, such is the master of her skills in mimicking normal feelings and emotions. And so good at blaming me for things I didn't know even happened.

 

When she left and shut down all feelings for me in an instant. It is like I do not exist, like we never happened, just like when she left our first marriage, its identical, she does not seem to care if I am alive or dead. Yet 24 hours before we fell out, she had told me, lying in my arms that I had been the most wonderful and loving husbanded she had ever known.

 

Time will I hope bring me relief. You are in good company UnbreakMyHeart.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Baileys2

[dreamingoftigers]

Hi Bailey,

 

I was diagnosed with BPD in my early twenties. I received treatment and no longer "qualify" for the diagnosis.

 

There is something very primal and reactive in BPD, and your wife is very reactive but I don't believe that she has full-blown BPD whatsoever.

 

You did point out early in in the thread that she doesn't seem to express negative emotion and she very obviously contains her emotions and lets them fester without dealing with the conflict at all.

 

BPD people CAN'T contain emotion like this. Emotion floods us and we simply cannot cope with it so we try to manipulate our surroundings to regulate us, because without treatment we are powerless to regulate ourselves.

 

Your wife contains any negativity to that point where it incubates and makes her "ill" and resentful to the point where it looks like she turns on a dime.

 

I think besides the maturity issue that, honestly, from the bottom of my heart she simply does a terrible job of asserting herself, creating boundaries for herself and then has found the only channel she can validate any of her negative feelings or not wanting to do something is to says she's "too ill" (which I am 110% sure is psychological but not any less real because of that) or "abused."

 

I honestly think the stories are a reflection of how she feels but can't express in the moment. But she still wants that validation. So she has to make the "reality" fit her feelings that she otherwise can't articulate.

 

I remember going through something like this as a child and my father is a pathological liar so I somewhat see the pattern.

 

She's only comfortable to express those negative emotions as a victim to them, or else she can't integrate them at all.

 

I wonder if EMDR therapy could be helpful to her.

It is a trauma therapy and I have no doubt that there's something traumatic (or some wonky neurology, lets hope it's the former) in her past that does not allow for negative expression.

 

Did her parents have weird attitudes about crying or anger from children?

Is she like that with her kids?

 

EMDR could (I'm guessing) be helpful to her and it can be presented to her as a way to help her get past the "abuse" she's suffered.

 

Now, know this, there's no point getting defensive (with her) about it because the truth is that you aren't arguing about the veracity of the events here. She'll only feel judged and "re-abused." It won't help you on a personal level at all. Probably just frustrate you. (And we all know what you're like when you're angry. Just kidding. )

 

What you would be literally arguing against is the way that she FEELS. You can't win that argument because the way that the story is told is really how these things makes her FEEL. Ugh. It's hard to explain. I hope I'm doing an okay job.

 

I BELIEVE YOUR VERSION. But I get why she's making up hers. I'm not saying it's "right" but to her "what actually happened" is not the true story. "How she feels" is the true story (to her). And she felt about the vinegar (etc.) as things someone yelled at her (or whatever she claimed). But she can't express it properly.

 

And because she can't express it properly, the emotion itself actually INTENSIFIES because there's almost this blockage inside that builds up.

 

(Crap, I think I just sound crazier as this post goes on but I am trying to articulate what goes on in someone that has this kind of dysregulation.)

 

Alright, last attempt at this one:

 

Envision a pipe that runs through your brain. Think of it as an "emotions pipe." All of the emotions run through it and everything is fine as long as the system keeps flowing. Now what happens if you can't process the negative emotions? You try to block them off from flowing. Well, the pressure slowly builds until finally "POP." Almost like an emotional oil spill that is a royal bit*h to clean up.

 

Every time this woman gets married it's like she can't process any if that negative feeling. Her system gets backed up to the point where she envisions physical symptoms. Truly, emotionally, she must be exhausted. (And exhausting for you too wondering when the pipe will burst).

 

She truly needs help. I'm not saying you have to try to help her at all. I just thought I would try to underline what I felt/thought her experience IMHO was.

 

 

Downtown, you explain things really well. I researched vulnerable narcissist and waif BPD and she seems to fit in a mix of both, but splitting is very evident, though the way you explain it, I understand so much better.

 

I guess this all means I'm helpless to do anything other than say goodbye, something I have fought desperately to avoid. What seems to happen when my wife leaves me, is that she goes on to have a another relationship, only for that not to work out, only for her then to come back and butter me up once again and we start all over, with the same outcome each time.

 

What is hard is that even when she comes back and is apologetic, she doesn't add much weight to the thinking errors that triggered her leaving the previous time, it's like is is just washed under the carpet. What is striking is that when she is seeing me as all good, which can last on a conscious level for 3 or 4 years, her love seems very genuine, she is so thoughtful, attentive, caring, I am put first, each day, every day bar her obvious need to talk about her health issues which is a daily occurrence. But her love does seem the genuine article. But at this time, she is also collecting a list of my wrongs, and that seems to include minor things like saying no, and having a difference of opinion, that is then replayed as me screaming abuse in her face.

 

I never knew life could be so complicated. All my brothers and sisters have 20 year plus happy marriages. Me, I feel doomed lol.

 

Her relatives want to help but they are as confused and helpless as I am.

[dreamingoftigers]

The difference between what I described and BPD is that with BPD the pipè is constantly blocked and then within minutes there is so much flow that the pressure builds and releases at random. We never know when the pipe will burst or we will be flooded. EMDR helped me move last a lot if that and I have not been flooded in about five years. My life has gone from a dark emotional night to a rather breezy spring day. Much much more tolerable than the extremes before therapy.

[Downtown]

It left me so confused I have doubted my own mind, I believed everything she said to begin with...I truly begin to question her mental health rather than mine.

Baileys, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA diagnostic manual (DSM-5), there are only three that are notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds: BPD, NPD, and ASPD. Of those three, BPD is by far the most notorious for making the partners feel like they may be going crazy.

 

The main reason BPD is so crazy-making is that BPDers usually truly love their partners (albeit in an immature way) and genuinely believe most of the outrageous accusations coming out of their mouths. And, a week later, when they are alleging the exact opposite, they will genuinely believe that nonsense too. As Dreaming explained, a BPDer's feelings are so intense that she experiences them as "facts," believing that any feeling that strong MUST be true.

 

In contrast, NPDers and sociopaths do not love their partners. Nor do they believe the false accusations. With them, the allegations consist of manipulation and game playing.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Downtown

[dreamingoftigers]

But to be able to clamp down on that kind of negativity for months or YEARS?

I just can't see that being BPD.

 

There may some BPD "traits" but honestly it's just really. Erm. Hard to believe.

 

BPD Fact Sheet | Borderline Personality Disorder

 

There really seems to be a drive to diagnose but just looking at how she behaves, that pattern shows a real lack of proper assertion.

 

Almost like underneath it all I'd the believe that, "I am not unhappy if I have a nice husband, ever."

 

So, if everything is based upon that it becomes, "I'm unhappy so that means my husband is NOT nice. He must be abusing me because I'm that unhappy!"

 

Or that people in general don't have the right to be upset with one another.

The first time she split from him was after he expressed dissatisfaction about the cinema.

 

The second time was after he had gone through a period of illness and needed a little time for himself.

 

ANY kind of dissatisfaction on his part gets a divorce and abuse accusations.

 

Like NO ONE, including her is ALLOWED to be upset (or even irritated).

It is taken as a very deliberate attack and even PERCEIVED and retold as one.

 

Something tells me that OP is actually a very laid-back guy.

 

A lot of times abusers try to minimize/excuse abusive actions and we can only really respond to what's posted. But I actually get a very genuine feeling of confusion and exasperation coming from his posts regarding this.

[Baileys2]

dreamingoftigers, yes you hit the nail on the head. Any sense of dissatisfaction is unacceptable. What I am aware of is the following:

 

My wife is very calm, accommodation, and agreeable, on the surface. It is only months or years later do I actually hear about what it was that she did not like. She appears to be conflict avoidant, to such a degree that she feels generally unable to express true feelings for fear of it turning into conflict. Though sometimes she get at me for no reason, and is at times, many times in actual fact a very negative person, ignores the 99 good things to fester on the 1 not so good. she has always been like that. Growing up, her father who also does not express emotions and had very high standards to meet and my wife and her brother were not encouraged to express upset or negative thoughts and feelings, just stiff upper lip and get on with it, not a lot of cuddles if any did she get from her father growing up, and her mother was ill in her early years, in and out of hospital a lot, and her mother dies when she was 12, with her father bring in her up.

 

She is treated for Anxiety, but emphasises it is me that puts her constantly on edge, not the condition, though she NEVER seemed on edge at all, quite the opposite.

 

She is rarely ever wrong and is very critical deep down, and when she does speak, it is usually to be defensive beyond need and overtly critical to me, or previous partners. She cannot accept being criticised herself, not even positively, and her switch from devotion to devalue is instantaneous once/i have upset her. In the past when I have been unwell, though she card for me fabulously at the time, a day or so later I will be berated for not appreciating the effort she has gone to and for not appreciating how much it has taken out of her.

 

She is though usually an incredibly kind and thoughtful person, very doting, always putting me first, but in our first marriage she used her CFS/ME to avoid cooking, housework, going to the cinema, sex etc, but when she wanted me back this time, all those things are no problem at all.

 

It is all so confusing, there seem to be so many aspects to her unusual behaviour, love me, don't love me, can't do something because of her health, can do it, wants to marry me, don't want to stay with me, false allegations of a sexual nature from 20 plus years ago when she first started working exaggerations of aggressive or abusive behaviour from first husband, who I know, and her relative is convinced that it all a load of rubbish.

 

All I know is that the love seems real at the time, but she is not an emotional person at all, and the only person she showed real affection to is me, not past partners, her brother or father, not even her kids, just me. But I upset her in a way that others would take in their stride and she goes all out to destroy our life and marriage, believing all this exaggerated abuse claims, me telling her father to shut up, being hostile towards her, and then we get down to the real petty, asking her to roll over in bed, moving her fathers belongings and not going to a caravan site that she wanted to go to. She has also sent years telling me I need to be with someone fit and healthy, so I can go and do all the things she is preventing me from doing, which is nothing, this endless tale is triggered by me making some passing comment about me liking a slow dance with my wife or of wanting to fly on a plane, which my wife won't do again. Its like everything is a blown out of all proportion.

 

bottom line is, I am not allowed to express being annoyed at something, being angry at something, being frustrated at something. She can, but not me. and hen I do, it is like somehow these are non human traits and there is something wrong with me.

Its all so confusing. and Yes, I have my moments but I am a very compassionate person, kind, empathetic and caring, so laid back kind of sums me up

Edited November 11, 2013 by Baileys2

[Downtown]

But to be able to clamp down on that kind of negativity for months or YEARS?

I just can't see that being BPD.

Dreaming, I agree. BPDers are not stable for years at a time. That's why I wrote last September (post #62 above):

Baileys, narcissism is -- by far -- the best fit for the behaviors you describe if you believe your

W

was only

pretending

to love you. As I noted, the splitting you describe -- where you are praised one moment and hated the next -- is strongly associated with BPD and NPD. Rev, Porridge, and I had been ruling the latter out due to your conviction that your

W

actually loved you.

 

NPD completely avoids the two problems we had in trying to make BPD fit. The first problem -- explaining why an apparently stable woman is actually unstable -- is avoided because narcissists are stable. The second problem -- explaining why a woman has a great fear of abandonment even though she has not shown strong signs of jealousy -- also is avoided because "abandonment fear" is not a basic trait of narcisissm.

 

Moreover, NPD also explains how your

W

is able to walk away

so

coldly from her stepchildren -- an action that would be abhorrent to BPDers because they actually experience loving feelings towards others.

In light of Baileys' more recent posts, I believe he's describing Avoidant PD traits together, perhaps, with mild apects of narcissism. I say this because Avoidants are so fearful of rejection that it is common for them to preemptively reject one lover after another -- to avoid the severe pain of being rejected themselves. As to the narcissism, there should be signs of grandiosity if the traits were very strong. This, at least, is my understanding.

[dreamingoftigers]

Whoa whoa Bailey,

 

Looks like the others had their smelling sense better attuned than I.

 

What I gathered from your previous posts was that she was totally mood-wise stable and then "BANG! Divorce!"

 

What you relate here is a rather long history of criticism and berating etc. that sounds like anger to me.

 

And with the childhood you've described, you've got yourself a BPD.

 

Cripes. I must be off my game today.

 

Sorry guys. I really thought he was describing someone that was tepid to the point of listless.

 

I'm guessing there's something a little conflict avoidànt with yourself Bailey.

Please don't be offended.

 

dreamingoftigers, yes you hit the nail on the head. Any sense of dissatisfaction is unacceptable. What I am aware of is the following:

 

My wife is very calm, accommodation, and agreeable, on the surface. It is only months or years later do I actually hear about what it was that she did not like. She appears to be conflict avoidant, to such a degree that she feels generally unable to express true feelings for fear of it turning into conflict. Though sometimes she get at me for no reason, and is at times, many times in actual fact a very negative person, ignores the 99 good things to fester on the 1 not so good. she has always been like that. Growing up, her father who also does not express emotions and had very high standards to meet and my wife and her brother were not encouraged to express upset or negative thoughts and feelings, just stiff upper lip and get on with it, not a lot of cuddles if any did she get from her father growing up, and her mother was ill in her early years, in and out of hospital a lot, and her mother dies when she was 12, with her father bring in her up.

 

She is treated for Anxiety, but emphasises it is me that puts her constantly on edge, not the condition, though she NEVER seemed on edge at all, quite the opposite.

 

She is rarely ever wrong and is very critical deep down, and when she does speak, it is usually to be defensive beyond need and overtly critical to me, or previous partners. She cannot accept being criticised herself, not even positively, and her switch from devotion to devalue is instantaneous once/i have upset her. In the past when I have been unwell, though she card for me fabulously at the time, a day or so later I will be berated for not appreciating the effort she has gone to and for not appreciating how much it has taken out of her.

 

She is though usually an incredibly kind and thoughtful person, very doting, always putting me first, but in our first marriage she used her CFS/ME to avoid cooking, housework, going to the cinema, sex etc, but when she wanted me back this time, all those things are no problem at all.

 

It is all so confusing, there seem to be so many aspects to her unusual behaviour, love me, don't love me, can't do something because of her health, can do it, wants to marry me, don't want to stay with me, false allegations of a sexual nature from 20 plus years ago when she first started working exaggerations of aggressive or abusive behaviour from first husband, who I know, and her relative is convinced that it all a load of rubbish.

 

All I know is that the love seems real at the time, but she is not an emotional person at all, and the only person she showed real affection to is me, not past partners, her brother or father, not even her kids, just me. But I upset her in a way that others would take in their stride and she goes all out to destroy our life and marriage, believing all this exaggerated abuse claims, me telling her father to shut up, being hostile towards her, and then we get down to the real petty, asking her to roll over in bed, moving her fathers belongings and not going to a caravan site that she wanted to go to. She has also sent years telling me I need to be with someone fit and healthy, so I can go and do all the things she is preventing me from doing, which is nothing, this endless tale is triggered by me making some passing comment about me liking a slow dance with my wife or of wanting to fly on a plane, which my wife won't do again. Its like everything is a blown out of all proportion.

 

bottom line is, I am not allowed to express being annoyed at something, being angry at something, being frustrated at something. She can, but not me. and hen I do, it is like somehow these are non human traits and there is something wrong with me.

Its all so confusing. and Yes, I have my moments but I am a very compassionate person, kind, empathetic and caring, so laid back kind of sums me up

[Downtown]

What I gathered from your previous posts was that she was totally mood-wise stable and then "BANG! Divorce!" What you relate here is a rather long history of criticism and berating etc. that sounds like anger to me. And with the childhood you've described, you've got yourself a BPD.

Dreaming, her behavior is confusing -- to all of us, including Baileys -- because it is unclear exactly what was happening in that first four years of their second marriage. Baileys initially wrote:

We only had two arguments in 4 years.... Other than being over sensitive, maybe a bit neurotic at times, things were

very stable

. She was very thoughtful towards me, very caring, very much a giver...

she has no rages, no expressions of anger."

I responded in my first post (#54 above):

I suspect you may be mistaken about this. Yet, if this statement does accurately describe your past four years,

you can rule out BPD

. Emotional

instability

is what distinguishes BPD from NPD and all other PDs.

[Baileys2]

Yes, to explain further, my wife just cannot accept criticism. full stop. Also, she her concern for her step children, or even her own for that matter is non existent at the time she decides to leave the relationship. All our children we happy, settles, we all got on fabulously, but I upset my wife, and she moves out he next day, kids too, no thought to trying to work things out to ensure their stability, it is what she wants and what she wants goes.

 

It is the loving side I struggle with most, I know they can mimmic true feelings, but until she left, I truly bee lived I was the love of her life. She did things that were so thoughtful, always affectionate, buying me things, caring for me, I always felt the love was genuine, but I wonder if she gave the same stories to all the other men she dated, I just don't know, Because one time when she left after I criticised her son, before our fist marriage she left me, and a week later is having sex with the plumber who came to fix the boiler. This is the same woman who insisted on no sex before marriage with her first husband and told me that her religious beliefs would not allow her to sleep around etc. 3 months later when the plumber didn't work out, she is back knocking on my door, professing undying love, though she want thinking of me when she was sleeping with him.

 

When she left our first marriage she camera back 9 months later on the proviso she wanted us to be friends, but hunted she may consider getting back with me because the guy she dated after leaving me didn't work out, but I wasn't sure and she then decided instead of talking to just cut me dead. she then went and married another man, but only after that marriage didn't work out did she get in touch with me, once again professing undying love, and this time she can cook most nights, have sex regally, is financially generous and thoughtful, goes to the cinema every week, (all the things she couldn't do in our first marriage) and now she walks out again, saying she loves me but will not tolerate my nasty behaviour, my disrespect to her father, my constant rages and my vernally ungrateful and discourteous behaviour, that she says caused her to feel on edge al the time and in fear of me erupting into terrifying rages. Its all in her head.

 

So I think there is more than one aspect of PD going on, and the more I look, the more I see, confusion a lll the way.

 

I want to bee live she truly loved me, but I am just not sure.

 

She did though seem so happy, sending me love notes with my sandwiches, cuddles before and after going to work, very loving sex, text messages daily for 4 years saying how much she loves me and how happy she is. She asks me to sort our wills, out, plan to do up the house, no sign or mention of unharness, then I upset her one time, then she leaves, and i get a list as long as your arm, something exaggerated, some totally fictitious and andy times I have criticised her acre changed to me screaming abuse in her face. All of which she believes.

 

I looked up shy/vulnerable NPD and she seemed to fit more. Also she is read about Critical Parent Head in terms of Transactional Analysis, and that seemed pos too. So confusing this one., Trust me to fall in love with someone who on the surface is as easy going, accommodating and loving as it is possible to get, only for her to be as complicated as it is possible to get too.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Baileys2

[Downtown]

Baileys, I agree with you about your seeing a mixture of PD traits. This is not surprising because people having one PD usually have one or two other full-blown PDs as well. I am still skeptical about BPD playing a major role because I've never heard of a BPDer being stable for four years. Nor have I heard of a BPDer (who has no strong traits of sociopathy or narcissism) who can suddenly cut young children completely out of her life.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah, my bad.

 

She's a BPD.

 

If you look at the other traits the only thing that was really missing was her turning angry/depressed on a dime, which she does apparently.

 

I still suggest trying to talk to her about EMDR to get over the "abuse trauma" even include the "alcoholic" and the first husband as being "traumatic."

 

That is, if you still want your wife. It's up to you. I wouldn't touch a BPD relationship with a ten-foot pole unless she was willing to get help. But as a BPD, the only way to talk her into getting actual help to integrate her feelings etc is by rolling out it as though she were the victim (and not victimizing, even though she does that it is very shaming for BPD people and they can't accept it. She won't go for help of she's made out to be the villian in any way.)

 

I know that this sounds very manipulative, and well, it kind of is but I KNOW what it's like inside BPD and I wish someone manipulated me into help quite awhile before it happened. The only reason I out together something was wrong was that I was hospitalized for the third tone and it didn't make sense that the average person would end up in the psych ward three times in two years, no matter the circumstance. But otherwise I really thought it WAS everyone else.

 

As well, I had a second-cousin who got a brain tumor that they couldn't operate on and he became delusional. He cancelled his gas and electric because "he was going to live and everyone else was going to die" so he needed to save his money. He ended up committing suicide by strapping a backpack full of rocks to his body and jumping off of a Ferry near Toronto Island. Some people said it was because he was gay. But really, dude was in his 40s, long past the closet-stage. He had an inoperable brain tumor and delusions. But he thought it was "everyone else" and that stuck with me. Just enough to poke through a little awareness into an otherwise nasty disorder.

 

BPD is a funny thing. The pain (physical) aspect is real. The same channel that gets emotionally flooded gets physically flooded too. But at other times it's like "tidal is the greatest day I could work for eighteen hiyas straight and the Sun is shining yay!" So that would also account for her CFS response being *ahem* selective. When she doesn't feel like doing it, she had the energy of a puddle. When it's i spring to her, she'd drag a trick behind her to go. Is it a manipulation? Yes and no. To the person in the outside, yes. But honestly, inside she's basically living off of the emotional states flooding her primal brain. It's HONEST. But selfish. Because she can't think beyond her own dissatisfaction when she feels it. Not because she doesn't care about you or what you want. But because she can't understand you wanting anything different than what she wants on an emotional level.

 

She probably LOVES to take care of you. Probably SHINES at it. In fact, if my husband is sick, I am all over that, even still. Broth. OJ. Medication. Running baths. Etc etc Etc blankets fresh out of the dryer. But guess what? He likes to do this thing when he's sick called "resting." That's like medieval torture and rejection to me, even still LOL. Although now it's more of a twinge than an underlying threat to my whole relationship/existence. I don't feel "unappreciated" when he needs to rest anymore.

 

Borderlines love to be needed. Because they need you so much. But then they feel drained by neediness. It's a fine line that would require an advanced telepath to navigate.

 

With a BPD person there's trauma associated with both being smothered/rejected and abandoned. Almost every action is going to be interpreted as either. The worst part is that ALL BPDs just want to be accepted BUT if you accept a BPD person, they kinda know that there's something wrong with them on some level (it more flickers through when they feel that they've failed at something) so what they think is "if you accept me than there must be something wrong with YOU."

 

It's a very hard world to live IN and live WITH.

BPD in a nutshell is really self-rejection. If one gets right down to it. They need another person to feel whole, but not too close because if they are seen for "what they really are" then they'll be rejected (they figure) so they reject first to keep you at just that distance to identify themselves but not "as themselves."

 

I really hope that I haven't confused you even more.

I may have more success translating Dr. Seuss books.

 

Emotions are hard to express for a large number of people when we are healthy etc. it's more confusing to try an explain a severely unhealthy state to someone who hasn't experienced the emotional flooding.

 

Think of a rabbit and how fearful they get. It's kind of like having the emotional experience of an abused puppy. You know, they shake and quake at times. They nip or bark. Have anxiety but then switch to tail-wagging and fetch the second you pull out a ball.

 

Dreaming, I agree. BPDers are not stable for years at a time. That's why I wrote last September (post #62 above):

Baileys, narcissism is -- by far -- the best fit for the behaviors you describe if you believe your

W

was only

pretending

to love you. As I noted, the splitting you describe -- where you are praised one moment and hated the next -- is strongly associated with BPD and NPD. Rev, Porridge, and I had been ruling the latter out due to your conviction that your

W

actually loved you.

 

NPD completely avoids the two problems we had in trying to make BPD fit. The first problem -- explaining why an apparently stable woman is actually unstable -- is avoided because narcissists are stable. The second problem -- explaining why a woman has a great fear of abandonment even though she has not shown strong signs of jealousy -- also is avoided because "abandonment fear" is not a basic trait of narcisissm.

 

Moreover, NPD also explains how your

W

is able to walk away

so

coldly from her stepchildren -- an action that would be abhorrent to BPDers because they actually experience loving feelings towards others.

In light of Baileys' more recent posts, I believe he's describing Avoidant PD traits together, perhaps, with mild apects of narcissism. I say this because Avoidants are so fearful of rejection that it is common for them to preemptively reject one lover after another -- to avoid the severe pain of being rejected themselves. As to the narcissism, there should be signs of grandiosity if the traits were very strong. This, at least, is my understanding.