I have just called off my wedding. Was I right in doing so?

[KathyM]

I wouldn't trust what the strippers tell you. They are not a trustworthy source. Most likely your fiancé's friends are covering for him also. I would believe your friend, who has your best interests at heart, and has no reason to lie to you. Everyone else in this scenario has a reason to lie.

[Trimmer]

That's why he's so confident that you can go and ask them: he doesn't think they will tell the truth!

 

Except two people already have. One of whom is a trusted friend of yours. The other may be a liar, but he still corroborated the story without knowing any details from you.

 

I wouldn't trust what the strippers tell you. They are not a trustworthy source. Most likely your fiancé's friends are covering for him also. I would believe your friend, who has your best interests at heart, and has no reason to lie to you.

If you guys are going to base your primary argument on these points, please go back and read more carefully, as the OP's primary source was "a friend of a friend of a friend type thing who’s boyfriend was at this buck’s party..." and who "I barely know." So it's someone she barely knows, who wasn't even at the party, who heard about it from her boyfriend. That's not exactly a trusted friend, who has her best interests at heart.

 

So we've got "witness 1": someone the OP doesn't know well at all, and who wasn't there, and "witness 2": a known liar who loves stirring the pot, who may well have just blurted out a lucky guess... Put it this way, if you ask someone "did anything wild happen at that bucks' party?", even without prompting with any further detail, isn't the very most likely guess a pathological liar would make: "oh sure, the groom got a blowjob?"

 

So unless he told the OP about that unique seahorse-shaped mole on the inside of her fiancee's thigh, or the odd 37° left-hand curve of his swizzle-stick, I wouldn't consider that a very reliable corroboration.

 

(Especially now that we know that someone did get a blowjob, it would be really easy for the known liar to just modify that a little bit, so it was the groom who got it. The blowjob was already on the table - because apparently it really did happen - the liar just had to reassign it to a more interesting character in his little story...)

 

So, you (arbitrarily?) discounted the strippers as not being a trustworthy source: I don't think her other sources are very solid either.

 

(If the stripper wasn't going to tell the truth, wouldn't she just have denied that she gave a blowjob at all? Seems like that would have been the obvious, safe, self-serving, go-to lie. Why, other than telling the truth, would she have said otherwise?)

Edited September 12, 2013 by Trimmer

[Silly_Girl]

No need to be deliberately obtuse. I think anyone getting married trusts their partner, that is just a given. Allowing them to see a stripper is not a big deal to me, I trusted that he would not do anything wrong and he didn't. If anything I feel a little guilty for not trusting when I should have.

 

 

But you didn't trust him, and he wasn't upfront with you, so it's not as straightforward as you suggest.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

You didn't want him to miss the potential to get a blowjob from a stripper, lying to you about it, and possibly end in you guys cancelling your wedding?

 

Traditions like that I can live without

 

ETA: for me the relationship issue would be as big as it was. He lied, he put his friendships before you. You seem satisfied because a physical act didn't take place, but I would be hung up on other stuff that to me would be more important. Trust and respect.

 

It's not a tradition. Some people who respect that type of thing might see it as such, but every young adult I know recently, the guys go fishing or golfing, the girls have a spa day and they meet for a nice meal afterwards! I'd guess the stripper made up a great alibi! Yes, it happened but not with your fiancé! So I guess everyone there was confused about who the guest of honor was? I don't think so. Forgive and move on or end it. DO NOT tell the other guys wife!

[Mint Sauce]

if you tell the other guy's wife, I'm curious to know what he has to say upon confrontation. Will he admit or blame yet another guy?

[stillafool]

It's obvious something happened but I don't want to jump to conclusions that it

is definitely what I have been told. It's not looking good though.

 

But you did jump to a conclusion and called off your wedding. I have to agree that you can't trust the strippers. They don't want to break up your wedding, they just want their money. How do know someone didn't call them and warn them that you would call? I'm sure they get jealous fiances calling all the time asking similar questions regarding boyfriends. Your fiance was the 'guest of honor' and that's the one they usually spend their time with. I say just forgive him if you still want to marry him and sweep this under the rug.

[KathyM]

If you guys are going to base your primary argument on these points, please go back and read more carefully, as the OP's primary source was "a friend of a friend of a friend type thing who’s boyfriend was at this buck’s party..." and who "I barely know." So it's someone she barely knows, who wasn't even at the party, who heard about it from her boyfriend. That's not exactly a trusted friend, who has her best interests at heart.

 

So we've got "witness 1": someone the OP doesn't know well at all, and who wasn't there, and "witness 2": a known liar who loves stirring the pot, who may well have just blurted out a lucky guess... Put it this way, if you ask someone "did anything wild happen at that bucks' party?", even without prompting with any further detail, isn't the very most likely guess a pathological liar would make: "oh sure, the groom got a blowjob?"

 

So unless he told the OP about that unique seahorse-shaped mole on the inside of her fiancee's thigh, or the odd 37° left-hand curve of his swizzle-stick, I wouldn't consider that a very reliable corroboration.

 

(Especially now that we know that someone did get a blowjob, it would be really easy for the known liar to just modify that a little bit, so it was the groom who got it. The blowjob was already on the table - because apparently it really did happen - the liar just had to reassign it to a more interesting character in his little story...)

 

So, you (arbitrarily?) discounted the strippers as not being a trustworthy source: I don't think her other sources are very solid either.

 

(If the stripper wasn't going to tell the truth, wouldn't she just have denied that she gave a blowjob at all? Seems like that would have been the obvious, safe, self-serving, go-to lie. Why, other than telling the truth, would she have said otherwise?)

.

Strippers protect their patrons. They have a reason to lie. The guy's buddies are most likely trying to protect their buddy as well. They have a reason to lie. This "friend" went out on a limb and called the OP after hearing the story from her boyfriend. What reason would she have to do that? To create trouble? Seems unlikely she would go out on a limb like that, but rather felt compelled to warn this woman when she heard of it from someone who was actually there and saw what happened. I think this "friend of a friend" would be the more reliable source moreso than the others. She has no reason to lie.

[Arabella]

strippers don't lie near as much as the religious.

 

 

christians believe a virgin had a child. what a whopper that is. worse they try to convert and bully people into believing this. on top of that they believe people who don't believe this whopper of a lie will spend an eternity in hell, a place far worse than even concentration camps. and christians profess that they are a religion of love. another whopper.

 

not to single out christians but other religions believe just as kooky stuff and believe in just as crazy ways.

 

And this is relevant to this thread HOW?

 

Keep on topic, please.

[JamesM]

Sorry to say....this is not so cut and dried.

 

Not only does a stripper have the motive to lie, but she has the YOU on the phone. She would be more inclined to say it was someone else thinking that you would not call the other man's wife.

 

However, your initial story came from someone who is an unknown per you and not a trusted source either. The one who corroborated the story could have been set up to do so. Yet this seems unlikely. There is no motive to ruin your relationship, is there?

 

And not to play the other side too much, is a BJ too personal? Is it better that your BF fondled another woman than him getting off by another woman? Is a little kiss okay but not a long kiss? Would a hand job been okay but not a blow job? He may have thought this additional step would not be a problem especially if he was drunk.

 

BUT.....at this point, you should choose whom you believe. Your bf or a stripper or a friend of a witness? You have decided that a stripper with motive and your bf with motive are more trustworthy than two people without motive.

 

Honestly, I don't know, but it does seem fishy that a friend whose boyfriend was there would initiate the conversation with you and let you know what happened. Did they have the wrong person in the incident? Seems kind of odd because your bf was the VIP of the party. If he was not, then it would be more possible that a mistake was made. On the other hand she COULD have heard the BF wrong. Have you asked this person if the bf may have covered for the other person by putting your bf in the hotseat and why? Have you asked for clarification that your bf was really the person at fault? It seems that this person has less motive than the stripper or your bf.

 

Not to make you doubt, but marriage is a big big deal (been doing it for 23 years ). Walking into it with this may have been a red flag that you are ignoring. Down the road you may wish you had listened to your friend. Taking some time with the pressure off to evaluate this may be wiser than assuming one way or the other.

[HappyLove]

Is it normal for strippers to pick a random guy from a party and give him a bj? And your fiancé knowing his marriage was at stake didn't say ok ok it was "Bill". And he knows you hate "Bill's" wife anyway so why wouldn't he tell? He probably knows you hate her so much that you'd never tell her so he gave them his friends name. Did you let your fiancé know your calling the strippers, he probably had the same idea and got to them first and that's probably the ONLY reason they even called you back. What skank who gives women's husbands bj's is gonna do the right thing and actually call the wife back? UNLESS, there was something in it for the skank. I mean its not like she's thinking oh let me call her back or they'll never use us again. And they left the room so you can bet they had sex too. Then there's all this deleted evidence SOMEBODY would have fessed up and at least said no it was another guy, not your fiancé.

 

Sorry your going through this I hope you find out the truth. The entire situation is just horrible.

[JamesM]

ISOMEBODY would have fessed up and at least said no it was another guy, not your fiancé.

 

 

This is a very good point. Why did no one who you talked with say, "no, it wasn't your bf. It was someone else." They didn't have to tell you the other guy's name, but out of courtesy to you and your bf, one would think they would have gotten him off the hook.

 

I hope it was another guy and not your bf, but I think it is better to know for sure now than a few months from now when leaving is much more difficult.

[pteromom]

Walking into it with this may have been a red flag that you are ignoring. Down the road you may wish you had listened to your friend.

 

I agree.

 

Another red flag is:

 

"He has had the opportunity to cheat before when an ex of his made it clear that she was willing and would keep it quiet. He told me, showed me the emails and messages just to get it all out in the open in case I heard rumours."

 

It's possible that he was being truthful and he was just being open with you, but it is ALSO possible that he fabricated this story about his ex offering herself to him because one of his friends saw he and his ex doing something, and your fiance was worried his friend would tell - like one of his friends is telling now.

 

I have no idea if your fiance got a BJ from a hooker... errr, I mean, stripper. But I think if you go forward with this marriage that you should do so with your eyes open to the possibility that he did. It doesn't mean you have to live in constant distrust, but just that your eyes are open if it turns out your fiance is a liar and cheater.

[Trimmer]

Strippers protect their patrons. They have a reason to lie.

I'm actually not taking issue with that point. But to take it further, my point would be that I would expect if a stripper did lie, that she would do it primarily out of self-interest, in which case, why would she point the finger at ANYONE at all? If she were going to lie, the most obviously best lie to deliver would be just to say "nothing happened" and let it go at that. How would participating in an existing deception be any more in her self-interest than that? It certainly doesn't "protect the partron" who she wrongly pointed the finger at, does it? The lie that protects her patrons and serves her best interst is "nothing happened."

 

Unless.... we've got a tricky conspiracy theory here, that someone paid her, not just to lie (in which case, you think they'd pay her to stay on message: "nothing happened"), but further, to deflect attention and rat out someone who didn't deserve it?

 

The guy's buddies are most likely trying to protect their buddy as well. They have a reason to lie. This "friend" went out on a limb and called the OP after hearing the story from her boyfriend. What reason would she have to do that? To create trouble? Seems unlikely she would go out on a limb like that, but rather felt compelled to warn this woman when she heard of it from someone who was actually there and saw what happened. I think this "friend of a friend" would be the more reliable source moreso than the others. She has no reason to lie.

She may be telling the truth as she understands it. Remember that she's hearing it from her boyfriend. Is it possible that he threw the fiancee under the bus in order to protect the real BJ'er - maybe his closer friend, with the mean wife? You know the old saying: Bros before Bros before Hos...

 

Did you let your fiancé know your calling the strippers, he probably had the same idea and got to them first and that's probably the ONLY reason they even called you back.

So there's that conspiracy theory, which I admit is a possibility.

 

To the OP: so you've either got the true story and thus an innocent fiancee who stayed in-bounds, or he's so evil that he not only got an out-of-bounds BJ, but then after the investigation closed in on him, he doubled-down on the lie and paid the stripper to throw the other guy under the bus as an alibi.

 

What skank who gives women's husbands bj's is gonna do the right thing and actually call the wife back? UNLESS, there was something in it for the skank.

Hey, go easy! That skank, according to the OP, is a time-honored tradition!

 

Sorry your going through this I hope you find out the truth. The entire situation is just horrible.

I do agree, this sucks. And I've always found the stupid "Bucks' party" to be a hugely immature "tradition"; as quite clearly demonstrated here, it's not an exaggeration to say that it's flirting with disaster.

[Trimmer]

Another red flag is:

 

"He has had the opportunity to cheat before when an ex of his made it clear that she was willing and would keep it quiet. He told me, showed me the emails and messages just to get it all out in the open in case I heard rumours."

 

It's possible that he was being truthful and he was just being open with you, but it is ALSO possible that he fabricated this story about his ex offering herself to him because one of his friends saw he and his ex doing something, and your fiance was worried his friend would tell - like one of his friends is telling now.

Hold on a minute, though - doesn't that become infinitely circular logic? Aren't you essentially arguing that any time someone appears to be honest, you should take it as a red flag, because it's possible they are fabricating a deception?

 

Yikes - now I'm never going to trust anyone again! (Which I already don't, so I'm just being a drama queen...)

[HappyLove]

Seems the only way to get closer to the truth is to out the friend to his wife. Which you better believe I would do if I was possibly marrying a cheater. The friend would be forced to tell the whole truth and maybe get others who were there to back him.

[HappyLove]

OR, ask the other men who were there if it was really the other guy see how they respond.

[pteromom]

Hold on a minute, though - doesn't that become infinitely circular logic? Aren't you essentially arguing that any time someone appears to be honest, you should take it as a red flag, because it's possible they are fabricating a deception?

 

Yikes - now I'm never going to trust anyone again! (Which I already don't, so I'm just being a drama queen...)

 

LOL.

 

No. I am saying you compile these sorts of things in your head to form a bigger picture of a person.

 

If a guy has a story about his ex trying to sleep with him, he could just be honest. So believe him.

 

If a guy has TWO stories about women trying to sleep with him (or give him a BJ, in this case), you say "Hmmmmmmmmmm". Based on the severity of the stories and what else you know about his level of honesty/integrity, you may decide to move forward or end it.

 

If every few months in your relationship, he has to tell you about some crazy thing that happens in case you hear rumors, then... well, you likely got yourself a cheater.

 

So all I am saying is that OP should note these incidents in case this is indication of a pattern.

[Trimmer]

LOL.

 

No. I am saying you compile these sorts of things in your head to form a bigger picture of a person.

 

If a guy has a story about his ex trying to sleep with him, he could just be honest. So believe him.

 

If a guy has TWO stories about women trying to sleep with him (or give him a BJ, in this case), you say "Hmmmmmmmmmm". Based on the severity of the stories and what else you know about his level of honesty/integrity, you may decide to move forward or end it.

 

If every few months in your relationship, he has to tell you about some crazy thing that happens in case you hear rumors, then... well, you likely got yourself a cheater.

 

So all I am saying is that OP should note these incidents in case this is indication of a pattern.

OK, fair enough - that sounds reasonable.

 

I'm not sure about the OP's situation one way or the other. To some degree, I'm playing devil's advocate in this thread, because when I hear things like "You were told this by a close friend who has your best interests at heart", I have to say: let's be accurate here, the OP described her as someone she barely knows, who wasn't there, etc... Just exploring all possibilities, and trying to keep the narrative honest in the face of everyone's outrage.

 

Believe me, I can believe that a man at a bachelor party could easily go over the line. I also think that if you're about to throw away a marriage and a life together, you need to look at it pretty carefully.

 

And I still think bachelor's parties with strippers and the whole tradition of taking it "over the line one last time" is immature.

[stillafool]

There's probably an extra charge for the stripper to lie. They probably get these requests all the time.

[KathyM]

 

And I still think bachelor's parties with strippers and the whole tradition of taking it "over the line one last time" is immature.

Well, that we can agree on. Immature and destructive. Not a good way to start off a marriage (with deception, infidelity, and lack of self control and lack of consideration for the woman he is about to marry).

 

I just think that this girlfriend of one of the buddies who was actually there and saw what happened would be more of a reliable source for the truth, who had no motive to lie, would be a more reliable source for the truth than strippers or buddies who are trying to protect their buddy so as not to nix the upcoming marriage. And the groom-to-be was probably not the only guy of the bachelor party who indulged in the "extra attention" from the strippers/hookers.

[sarah_smythe]

It's possible that he was being truthful and he was just being open with you, but it is ALSO possible that he fabricated this story about his ex offering herself to him because one of his friends saw he and his ex doing something, and your fiance was worried his friend would tell - like one of his friends is telling now.

 

Wow. I don't even know how to respond to this. I am just not that paranoid.

 

Yes he could have fabricated the story. He could also be lying when speaking of his past. He could also be lying when he says he loves me. He could also be lying when he says he is down the bar having a drink with mates. He could also be lying..... well anytime really.

 

I have always found him to be honest. I am not going to go around thinking the worst because hypothetically he could have done something sometime somewhere that someone else either did or didn't see.

 

I'd rather live my life happy that in a constant state of "what if"

[sarah_smythe]

A lot of replies since I was last here. It seems a very divisive subject. I am surprised really, I thought it was straight forward.

 

If he cheated the marriage was off. All the evidence pointed towards that initially. The stripper gave a different account which also seemed plausible.

 

To me the strippers account along with my fiances word (which carries a lot of weight) was more likely than a stranger and a liar (as Trimmer pointed out).

 

I think Trimmer gets where I am coming from on this although I do acknowledge others concerns. Based on that I did speak to the other guy as I said I would and he has admitted it was him although he swears he was never going to have sex with the strippers which is slightly different to their story.

 

I now think there is no doubt. I really do appreciate all the replies, it helped me clear my head and focus on what I needed find out. I have done that now and can now focus back on what is important, my wonderful man and our wedding and life together.

 

I have also leaned a lesson. Traditions of the past are maybe best left for the past. If they went and played golf or something this wouldn't have happened. At the same time though it is good fun to get out with the girls, or in his case the guys, and have fun watching the strippers as long as everyone knows and sticks to their boundaries. I stuck to mine, my fiance stuck to his, that is all that really matters.

[KathyM]

A lot of replies since I was last here. It seems a very divisive subject. I am surprised really, I thought it was straight forward.

 

If he cheated the marriage was off. All the evidence pointed towards that initially. The stripper gave a different account which also seemed plausible.

 

To me the strippers account along with my fiances word (which carries a lot of weight) was more likely than a stranger and a liar (as Trimmer pointed out).

 

I think Trimmer gets where I am coming from on this although I do acknowledge others concerns. Based on that I did speak to the other guy as I said I would and he has admitted it was him although he swears he was never going to have sex with the strippers which is slightly different to their story.

 

I now think there is no doubt. I really do appreciate all the replies, it helped me clear my head and focus on what I needed find out. I have done that now and can now focus back on what is important, my wonderful man and our wedding and life together.

 

I have also leaned a lesson. Traditions of the past are maybe best left for the past. If they went and played golf or something this wouldn't have happened. At the same time though it is good fun to get out with the girls, or in his case the guys, and have fun watching the strippers as long as everyone knows and sticks to their boundaries. I stuck to mine, my fiance stuck to his, that is all that really matters.

Well, if you prefer to believe a stripper, or a guy who knows his neck is on the line about this (your fiancé), and who likely knows it would be a dealbreaker to you if he were to admit it, then all I can say is, good luck with that. Your risk to take, not ours.

[sarah_smythe]

Well, if you prefer to believe a stripper, or a guy who knows his neck is on the line about this (your fiancé), and who likely knows it would be a dealbreaker to you if he were to admit it, then all I can say is, good luck with that. Your risk to take, not ours.

 

I am not trying to start an argument but if I may I would like to ask you to explain your thinking.

 

At the moment I have.

 

My fiancé - known to always be honest and open (99% likely to be telling the truth)

The stripper - as Trimmer said, if they were going to lie why not just say nothing happened or not even call back? (50% likely to be telling the truth)

The culprit - He has admitted it was him. Why would he if it was not? To save his mate (my fiancé) but at the same time possibly causing his own relationship problems? Not logical. (70%? likely to be telling the truth)

The friend of a friend - an unknown. Could be the most honest guy in the world or could be a liar. (unknown% likely to be telling the truth)

The liar - speaks for itself, cannot be trusted. (20% at best likely to be telling the truth)

 

I am not sure how one can, from the evidence above, draw the conclusion that my fiancé was involved.

[sdraw108]

My fiancé - known to always be honest and open (99% likely to be telling the truth)

 

NO!

 

He lied to you about what happened at the party, when it was of critical importance and your entire marriage depended on his response! You told him the marriage was off based on what you thought happened, and even still, he didn't think it would be wise to tell you the "truth" that his friend got a BJ? This makes no sense whatsoever, and is about as far removed from "known to always be honest and open" as it could be, short of him being caught cheating on you.

 

Your 99% should be drastically reduced. He has very little credibility at this point.

 

The stripper - as Trimmer said, if they were going to lie why not just say nothing happened or not even call back? (50% likely to be telling the truth)

 

Firstly, let's be clear, this was a hooker, not a stripper. Strippers do not perform sexual acts.

 

Remember, your fiance suggested you call up the hooker. How hard would it have been to arrange this cover story with her in advance (probably for a bit of extra cash)? The details that she gave which you think make her more likely to be telling the truth is irrelevant if it's a planned lie.

 

Also recall that you yourself said it was unlikely that the hooker would call you at all. Yet suddenly she's eagerly calling you (even when you didn't answer the first time) and pouring out every single detail about what happened. Why? This doesn't seem normal to me - discretion is pretty core part of the service hookers provide, and you're nothing to her - why would she risk her reputation over this?

 

The culprit - He has admitted it was him. Why would he if it was not? To save his mate (my fiancé) but at the same time possibly causing his own relationship problems? Not logical. (70%? likely to be telling the truth)

 

Was the culprit one of the people you originally asked, and who said nothing happened? Yet now, he's willing to "admit" to you about what he's done - he's suddenly not worried about you knowing?

 

You think that lying to save his mate could possibly cause his own relationship problems, but that admitting to you that he got a BJ from a hooker won't? In the first case, he can simply explain to his wife that he was covering for his friend, but in the latter case he's screwed if you go and tell her.

 

The friend of a friend - an unknown. Could be the most honest guy in the world or could be a liar. (unknown% likely to be telling the truth)

 

There's zero motive for the lie.

 

But more importantly, if we assume this friend of a friend and/or her boyfriend have ulterior motives, then it makes even less sense for them to say anything to you at all. If the other guy got a BJ, why would they risk revealing anything at all? By inventing a story and having the girlfriend call you about it, they're opening up the whole situation to scrutiny unnecessarily.

 

The liar - speaks for itself, cannot be trusted. (20% at best likely to be telling the truth)

 

Except that his story matches that of your first source. Coincidence?

 

Also, you haven't really gone into much detail about this guy. Sure, he likes to stir the pot (a practical joker?) but is he willing to ruin his friend's marriage with a lie? That seems a bit strange.

 

Has your fiance said anything about these two guys' story? If his version of events is true, then he should be extremely angry with them both for telling you a "lie". Does he behave as if this is the case?

 

I am not sure how one can, from the evidence above, draw the conclusion that my fiancé was involved.

 

I'm not sure how one can draw the conclusion that he definitely wasn't involved, either. I think you need to dig deeper into this, and see what other evidence you can get to support either case.