Was it sex?

[Rustyram]

I'm 23 and my girlfriend is 24 and we have been dating for 9 months and living together in an apartment for 4 months.

 

We both love each other, have a strong bond and many things in common.

 

About 2 months ago my gf lost her job and as two of her single friends from high school (one male and one female) are teachers, they were on summer break. So my gf went out with her friends a few times until early in the morning.

 

Naturally I didn't like this as I have to get up at 5:30 am for my job. So we would hang out, eat and have sex, then she would go out with them to bars/clubs here in Chicago.

 

She swore that nothing was going on but hanging with her friends like she has done since high school and before we met. She also would call me throughout the night to check in and let me know that everything was cool.

 

I started being nasty with her because I resented this, mostly because I was jealous and wanted to go out during the week and party too! She didn't like how I was acting and kept saying we had problems and needed to talk. I told her that her going out and partying while I was sleeping was the problem and that she was being "crazy".

 

Regrettably, I even made her cry a few times because I was jealous and wanted to party too. She probably went out with her friends 4 or 5 more times and then it stopped.

 

Things got better between us, a few weeks later she got a new job and things really turned around and we were both happy.

 

2 days ago she says we needed to talk. She said that when she was hanging out, one of her friends cousins (a male) was there a few times. She said he was really nice and always interested in what she had to say. She said she would talk about us and our problems with him and he was a good listener. But she told him that she wasn't sure what to do because she felt like I was pushing her away and being mean (which I guess I was).

 

Well one night she gave him a ride to his apartment after they had all been out drinking and he asked her to come up to see something. She went and he said it was on his computer, which was right next to his bed. So she sat down and he leaned in and kissed her and laid her back, and she kissed him back. But when she kissed him she says she felt confused and didn't like it.

 

While he was kissing her which she says was really quick, he was pushing her panties aside (she had on a mini skirt) and trying to penetrate her. She says she asked him to stop and that this wasn't right, but at that time the tip of his penis has entered her. She pushed him off and said this is wrong, I have a boyfriend and I need to go.

 

She says she left and he called her the next day saying he really liked her and she didn't deserve to be treated like I was treating her. But she told him she loved me and wanted to work it out and for him not to contact her anymore. And that was the last of it.

 

So I am thinking she was confused and hurt by me and he was trying to take advantage of her.

 

I told her we are done and I left the apartment (am staying by my folks) and she is crushed.

 

When I left she was on her knees, crying like I have never seen her cry before, and kept saying "I love you" and "I made a mistake, the biggest of my life". I just told her I can't be with a cheater and I'll think this through because I love her and have never felt so hurt before.

 

She has called me only to tell me she loves me and has never been in love like this before.

 

I really do love her and believe her. I've never met or had feelings this strong for anyone before. Not even close!

 

I'm VERY hurt, but can't help feeling like I was partly to blame because of my reaction to her going out with her friends, and I did upset her, made her cry and called her names because I was jealous I wasn't able to have fun too.

 

I feel empty without her and think I might be able to work this out. Which is what she said we can do because we make each other stronger and understand each other.

 

What do you guys think?? I'd love to hear some opinions.....

[nescafe1982]

She cheated. There's not "just the tip." She willingly went home with another man, went into his house, into his bedroom, onto his bed, and laid with him long enough to end up on the other end of his penis. This is infidelity, not a mistake.

 

I know it's kind of harsh to say it like that. But yous post sounds like you are trying to downplay her betrayal and even accept some responsibility for it. DON'T! If you guys had a few trouble (and TBH it sounds to me like you were being totally reasonable there too), that does not mean she is less to blame for her actions.

 

She did something terrible. And you're the one who is suffering the emotional repercussions of it. That isn't right.

 

Now, if you're anything like I was when this happened to me, you will be feeling a lot of negative stuff in the coming weeks, months, etc. There is NO way you can process this event and decide whether to keep her in your life or let her go in the next short while. So here is what I would recommend:

 

1) You establish distance/space apart from her. No contact for a while. If you two live together, she moves out. This isn't necessarily a break-up (unless you want it to be), but IME the last thing you need is her interferring in how you respond to this betrayal. If she truly loves you she will understand this and seek her own means of getting better (she likely needs counseling to understand what she was failing to cope with that lead her to cheat.).

 

2) Be around people who have your best interests in mind, who care about you and who you can trust.

 

3) In the coming weeks (or months) you process this horrible thing. You don't need to decide whether to "take her back" until you are done reeling from the shock of it all.

 

Eventually, you two will either break up or reconcile. But I gotta tell you that the most important thing right now is not to rush to closure, especially if reconcilliation is what you want. She's broken.. something is seriously wrong with her and she's been not dealing with whatever her issue is (it's not clear from your post but cheaters are usually running away from latent issues that may or may not have to do with the relationship). You cannot help her figure herself out, but you can get some space that will hopefully encourage her while you try to process things on your end.

 

In some time, things will be clearer and you will have a sense of what to do. But reconciliation if very, very, very difficult. Bear that in mind as you two are not that far into the relationship, and honestly, if cheating is already a problem this early on, the chances of it happening again are significantly higher.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that this happened to you. It's a really awful thing. Good luck as you move forward.

[Rustyram]

Thanks..... it is hard because the last 4-5 weeks have been unbelievable. We took a trip to California and have had ZERO problems since she went out for a few weeks.

 

As she said, she was confused because I was pushing her away and calling her crazy and telling her we didn't have any problems other than her going out. And she was going to tell me but she feared that her mistake would cost her me, so she kept putting it off because things turned around and got better.

 

It's a tough one because it happened a few months ago, but I'm finding out now. We have insane, intense chemistry, both psychological and sexual and I really can't imagine myself with anyone else. When I think of having her move out and not seeing her, I feel empty. She really has become a best friend to me and until she told me, I feel that this is someone I could end up marrying.

 

I'm afraid to risk losing her and respect that she ended up telling me what happened.

[Rustyram]

One more thing. I have a friend who is a little bit older (27) and when he was dating his wife, early on in their relationship, he slept with an ex-gf while at a party. He said the booze wasn't to blame and told his then girlfriend that he messed up and loved her and begged her for one more chance.

 

She took him back, she said it was hard at first, but she forgave him, saying that we are all imperfect human beings and we make bad decisions.

 

They have been married for 1 1/2 years and have a newborn baby and are happy.

 

My situation isn't even as bad because we were fighting and I admit that I was being pretty crappy towards her because of my jealousy. And she stopped herself from letting the guy have sex with her as she "thought" she was with someone who was being friendly and is the cousin of one of her friends.

 

My friend said he wouldn't risk losing a potential lifetime of happiness because of a few minutes of kissing and near sex and that he is proof that it can be worked out if I want it to.

[heartshaped]

I don't think either of you are mature enough to be in a long term relationship.

 

You called her names + made her cry all because she was going out with her friends. Eventually, she stopped going out and I'm sure that had a lot to do with you. If this is how you reacted in this situation, I'm sure your actions have been similar in other situations. You need to work on yourself before you can be with anyone.

 

She cheated on you, lied by omission about it for weeks (months?), and now is trying to feed you some BS story line that he 'took advantage of her'. She's 24 not 4. I'm sure she realized where things were heading when she went in his bedroom. If this was such a mistake, she felt so terrible, and was taken advantage of why wait so long to tell you? She needs to work a lot on herself as a person as well.

 

Bottom line, the two of you certainly aren't meant for each other and probably could do with some time single to better manage your behaviors in relationships.

[bubbaganoosh]

One thing you don't understand. She drove this guy home, went in his apartment sat down on his bed and if you want to get to the nuts and bolts of it, had sex, even if it was with just the tip of his penis. I was still cheating. Not bad enough? she's crying the blues to this guy and telling him about your problems. Whooo boy, this guy saw his opening and took it. He didn't put a gun to her head or threaten her with bodily harm or blackmail her. I think that covers it. So now your in a funk because of her cheating and I think you did the right thing except you should have thrown her out.

 

If you want to give her a second chance, it's your life but with the information you now have, what's going to happen when you and her hit another rough spot in your relationship. I promise you that if she goes out with her friends, your going to remember what happened the last time so think hard on this. She lied and cheated. Is this they kind of woman you want in your life?

[veggirl]

Healthy individuals who are invested in their relationships don't punish their partner or deal with their problems by getting into bed with someone else. Bottom line.

 

She cheated on you, it was more than "the tip" and it doesn't even sound like they used protection

 

You guys are too immature to be this serious, this fast. you moved in after 5 months and she wants to party. You are trying to fit a square peg (serious, adult relationship) into a round hole (immature young people). Not gonna happen.

 

PS: just discussing your R with another man is wrong. Your R problems are between you two, she shouldn't be bringing other men into them. It clearly opens the door for bonding and "I can treat you better" and "wow you're sooo understanding, my bf is so not" so on and so forth.

 

btw why did it takes months for her to tell you about this?

Edited September 15, 2013 by veggirl

[Space Ritual]

You now those old movies where there is some really bad Vaudeville act doing a tired old routine and the crowd is booing and and yelling for 'The Hook"? And a long wooden hook appears out of stage left and grabs one of the Vaudeville act members by the neck and yanks them off stage as the curtain drops?

 

Your girlfriend is the Vaudeville act with that whole story. It has been a pretty scripted tale she fed you. All with the old "He is not treating you well, Baby"...."but I love Him!" That is older than time itself.

 

Time for you to give her the Hook....

Edited September 15, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Chi townD]

Well, if that story was true, then it's on the border of rape. I would ask her if she was willing to press charges against him or at least talk to the police to see what hey have to say on the matter.

 

If she doesn't think it is necessary, then it wasn't rape and she knew what she was there to do.

[nescafe1982]

I hear your frustration and despair, but I just want you to hear how this sounds to me:

 

I really can't imagine myself with anyone else. When I think of having her move out and not seeing her, I feel empty.

 

This sounds like enmeshment, not a secure romantic attachment. In a safe, secure relationship, you can go for log periods of time without seeing one another without such intense feelings of emptiness or despair.

Now, you guys are in a very insecure situation right now... but it is an insecure situation that she created by cheating on you (and lying about it for months, to boot).

It will go against most of your instincts (which will call for more intensity, greater closeness to counteract her betrayal), but if you don't get some proper space as you heal from this thing, a toxic degree of relational codependence might result. Meaning, you might actually smother your relationship to death by overcompensating for her actions.

 

 

I'm afraid to risk losing her and respect that she ended up telling me what happened.

She doesn't deserve respect for telling you. That's basic, a bare-minimum line of human decency. It's not something admirable.

And if she leaves you because she's unwilling to wait out the fallout you're left with after her infidelity? Well, what does that tell you about her?

 

(My friend) is proof that it can be worked out if I want it to.

 

The truth is you do not have control over whether or not this relationship works out. Or at least, you have significantly less control over this than you seem to think you do. You can't keep your GF from cheating again, you can't keep her from leaving, you can't even make her change how she treats you. These things all have to come from her.

 

You can change everything about yourself and this problem will not be much different. Why? Because the biggest problem is her.

 

It's tempting to "take control" of a situation involving infidelity because as the betrayed partner, it's really easy to feel powerless. You feel powerless, so you assume some/all of the blame for her actions: it becomes your fault. If only you hadn't been mean to her, she wouldn't have done this. Deep down, though, taking the blame is about her refusal to own what she did. Or, barring that, it's a response to feeling utterly powerless in your relationship... which you are (we all are. we can't control what our significant others do).

 

All of your feelings and responses above are extremely common of people who have been betrayed. They are normal self-defense mechanisms and eventually you will stop feeling the need to justify what she did, blame yourself, or try to take charge. BUT (and this is a big but), you have to maintain clear distance from her for a period of time until you get past these rationalizations. Why? Because if you decide to cut corners and take the fast-track to reconciliation, you will never get past these rationalizations. Consequently, you will continue a relationship with your GF in which the rules are: 1) she is justified in betraying you, 2) if she treats you poorly it's your own fault, and 3) you should thus try to control her environment (like monitoring her, not letting her go out with male friends, not letting her go to a party without you, etc).

 

You can see how that is not a road to relationship happiness, right? If she's not responsible for her actions, than you become responsible for policing her.

 

For reconciliation to work, you have to get a space where you genuinely stop taking responsibility for her actions. That will never happen if you are still in close proximity to her and she has a "say" in how you're processing this. No, this is your emotional work to do, alone or with people who you trust and who truly have your best interests in mind. She has her own work to do, seriously... and she will not only have to respect that you need some time, but she needs to address her own problems (and it doesn't sound like she's doing this... at least, you haven't mentioned it. Why not?)

 

Of course, given the timeline and the level of toxic enmeshment that I'm hearing in your posts (issues dealt with by others so I'll leave them alone), I would seriously reconsider whether reconciliation is what you want. But then, there is absolutely no reason to rush this decision either. For right now avoid putting undue pressure on yourself.

Edited September 15, 2013 by nescafe1982

[Rustyram]

We have been talking and she admits her going out was wrong and I was right.

 

She said she loves me and will respect whatever decision I make, and if I still want her she will submit to whatever it takes to prove her love to me.

 

She said she thinks we moved in too quickly, as she was living at home and i already had an apartment with friends after I got back from the Navy.

 

But she realized that night she truly loves me and will do whatever it takes to work through this. She said she can't erase what happened, but can promise me it was a mistake and will do whatever she can to prove it.

 

As for rape. I asked her and she said it felt borderline, but it all happened so fast because when he kissed her she kissed back and didn't like it and in a moment he was trying to have sex when she asked him to stop.

 

I told her it was BS and to just tell me they had full blown sex. But she looks in my eyes and swears to God that is what happened.

 

I told her im beyond hurt that she did this and i don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive her. But she says if i love her and i want her we can work through it and she'll do whatever it takes.

 

She has slept on the couch the last 3 nights and im still thinking things through.

 

I have never felt about a girl like this ever.

 

She also talked to her father and he said what she did was really bad and i will work through it if i love her and want to.

 

So here I am thinking.........

[veggirl]

Again, why did it take months to tell you?

and why did she do it now? probably because someone else was going to.

 

Did she immediately cut off all contact with the other guy? or was she still in contact after she let him have sex with her?

[nescafe1982]

I ask again: what is she doing to make sure she deals with the issues that led to her infidelity? she needs to tell you what her game-plan is. this isn't your problem to fix... i'm not sure you 'get' that yet.

 

Other red flags:

1) she's sleeping on the couch. This isn't "space," and it puts undue pressure on you to come to a resolution. She should be in a hotel, where at least you won't feel guilty about her subpar sleeping arrangements. She's not giving you the space you need to work through these feelings; that looks to me (and this is my opinion, for take it fwiw) like she's more worried about applying pressure on you than trusting you to make the best decision for herself.

2) You're talking to her dad about this? That's a problem. He will be incapable of giving you sound advice; to even ask him to get involved sounds like codependent attachment is already a problem with you and GF. And look at the advice he gave you "this will work out if you want it to." Where is GF's role? What is her responsibility? No, this sounds like blame-shifting to me.

3) That she interrupted the sex she had with the other man is less of an issue than the fact that she went into that bedroom to have sex with him. I can't say definitively whether she was forced or not (I wasn't there), but if she's not saying it was rape then I think it's best we don't go there. But the fact remains that she went into another man's bedroom and started fooling around with him: she cheated.

[nescafe1982]

Believe it or not, OP, I think your GF (and her family!) might actually be trying to manipulate you. Who told GF's dad about the infidelity? Was it you, or her? If it was her, this is manipulative on her part; hardly a recipe for successful reconciliation.

 

Also, have you read anything on relational codependency? I did after I was cheated on, and it really opened my eyes to some very toxic patterns in my relationship with a cheating man.

[giblesp]

Being rude to your woman before she gos out drinking and surrounded by young men, is usually going to be recipe for disaster.

 

To be honest, I'd say you're both at fault. You should never be nasty to your girl and make her cry.

While she chooses to be with you and says that she loves you, she should never go to a guy's apartment and engage in sexual activity.

 

I'll be straight up, you were emotionally abusing her man. Whether she still would have betrayed you or not, only she knows. Bear in mind that there was probably more of a lead up then her just ending up at his apartment, looking at something on his computer which happened to be next to the bed.

 

You can still sort this out, but you're going to have to get to the bottom of any inexcusable behavior on your part, and she will have to do the same.

 

If at any point she told him to stop and he continued, then that is pretty serious.

Edited September 15, 2013 by giblesp

[Rustyram]

Again, why did it take months to tell you?

and why did she do it now? probably because someone else was going to.

 

Did she immediately cut off all contact with the other guy? or was she still in contact after she let him have sex with her?

 

She cut off all contact with him.

[Rustyram]

I ask again: what is she doing to make sure she deals with the issues that led to her infidelity? she needs to tell you what her game-plan is. this isn't your problem to fix... i'm not sure you 'get' that yet.

 

Other red flags:

1) she's sleeping on the couch. This isn't "space," and it puts undue pressure on you to come to a resolution. She should be in a hotel, where at least you won't feel guilty about her subpar sleeping arrangements. She's not giving you the space you need to work through these feelings; that looks to me (and this is my opinion, for take it fwiw) like she's more worried about applying pressure on you than trusting you to make the best decision for herself.

2) You're talking to her dad about this? That's a problem. He will be incapable of giving you sound advice; to even ask him to get involved sounds like codependent attachment is already a problem with you and GF. And look at the advice he gave you "this will work out if you want it to." Where is GF's role? What is her responsibility? No, this sounds like blame-shifting to me.

3) That she interrupted the sex she had with the other man is less of an issue than the fact that she went into that bedroom to have sex with him. I can't say definitively whether she was forced or not (I wasn't there), but if she's not saying it was rape then I think it's best we don't go there. But the fact remains that she went into another man's bedroom and started fooling around with him: she cheated.

 

I told her to sleep on the couch, so that's not all on her.

 

I have not talked to her dad. When I told her it was over she freaked out and went to her parents she was so upset..... So this is just what she told me and her dad isn't aware that I know what he said....

 

And as she says, she thought she had made a friend who would listen which was a big mistake. When she took him home he said he wanted to show her something on his computer, which was in his bedroom. She said he turned on the computer, which you had to sit on his bed to look at and he leaned in between her legs and aggressively kissed her and leaned her back.

 

She admits to being confused and kissing him back and says it happened so quick that all of a sudden his penis was right there and he was holding her panties aside trying to get in her when she told him to stop and this isn't right. She tells me that all of her clothes, even her shoes were on and she never touched his penis with her hands or even saw what it looked like. It doesn't make it hurt any less, but she says she stupidly put herself into that situation where that could happen.

[Rustyram]

Being rude to your woman before she gos out drinking and surrounded by young men, is usually going to be recipe for disaster.

 

To be honest, I'd say you're both at fault. You should never be nasty to your girl and make her cry.

While she chooses to be with you and says that she loves you, she should never go to a guy's apartment and engage in sexual activity.

 

I'll be straight up, you were emotionally abusing her man. Whether she still would have betrayed you or not, only she knows. Bear in mind that there was probably more of a lead up then her just ending up at his apartment, looking at something on his computer which happened to be next to the bed.

 

You can still sort this out, but you're going to have to get to the bottom of any inexcusable behavior on your part, and she will have to do the same.

 

If at any point she told him to stop and he continued, then that is pretty serious.

 

This is what I'm saying. At least 2 times during this she said we need to talk and we have a problem. And I told her she was crazy and needed to stop going out. That was wrong.

 

She also met with him to talk during the day a few times because he was A) Her friends cousin and B) she had told him that she was in love with me and just wanted to bend his ear. Which she also admits to being wrong and says that she was not seeking any kind of relationship or affection from him other than someone to talk with because I wouldn't talk with her and all her close friends really liked me.

 

So yes, she said she met with him at the mall once for a few hours and one more time at target to talk.

 

After this happened, the next day he called her and said he really liked her and she didn't deserve to be with someone who didn't listen to her and treat her like crap. She told him to not contact her anymore and she was going to tell me what happened and work on her bf, who she loves.

[Rustyram]

Any discussions concerning all of the other men she partied with while out with her friends?

 

Yes. And she swears there was none, that she was just with friends. She knew it bothered me, so in the beginning she would call me and let me know where she was and what was going on.

 

Of course I liked knowing where she was, but was jealous and would say nasty things to her on the phone. Which I now feel crappy about because I feel partly responsible for pushing her into that situation. And one time she even slept at her friends apartment and didn't get back home until noon the next day, which was the worst one. I blew up at her and said mean things.....

 

So yes, we did discuss and there were no men other than her friends cousin who had just moved back to Chicago, didn't start his new job yet and her friend had told him to go out with them, which is how she met him....

[IAmRobot]

Lol. Would you have believed her if she said they were just at the bar sitting and the guy slided the tip of his cock in her while sitting. You dont just slide your cock.

 

Mistake #1: Getting to comfy with this guy. Good listener my ass.

Mistake #2: HUGE: Going to his place. That would be it for me. If my girl is willing to go to another male's place in the middle of the night, then she just has poor boundaries and poor awareness.

Mistake #3: Going to his bedroom. (He has something to show? Comeon - your gf knew what was going on, but she wanted to keep the comfort that was making her feel good.) She subconsciously wanted the guy at least as much.

Mistake #4: Kissing him and fooling around....

 

Whether ****ed or not, who cares. She broke major boundaries anyways.... And she was making you pass for crazy cuz you were jealous... Of course you were jealous - she was going at other male's places in the middle of the night. Id like to see tables reversed what she'd do.

 

DUMP YOUR GIRL. SHE BE STUPID YO

[giblesp]

She said he turned on the computer, which you had to sit on his bed to look at and he leaned in between her legs and aggressively kissed her and leaned her back.

 

She admits to being confused and kissing him back and says it happened so quick that all of a sudden his penis was right there and he was holding her panties aside trying to get in her when she told him to stop and this isn't right. She tells me that all of her clothes, even her shoes were on and she never touched his penis with her hands or even saw what it looked like. It doesn't make it hurt any less, but she says she stupidly put herself into that situation where that could happen.

 

If she's word for word telling the truth here, then this needs to be treated seriously.

I have to say though, its gone from 'the tip of his penis in her,' to 'trying to get in her.'

Which is it? Because those are 2 different things. Did he go inside with her consent or not? Did he force her to do anything against her will?

 

If there was ANYTHING non consensual going on, this needs to be reported to the authorities.

I'd put this at the top of the list first. Be gentle in your approach with her about this, and get to the bottom of it as best you can.

[veggirl]

what was he showing her on his computer?

[bubbaganoosh]

This is what I'm saying. At least 2 times during this she said we need to talk and we have a problem. And I told her she was crazy and needed to stop going out. That was wrong.

 

Well now you do have a problem. Look friend, you had an argument. She was pissed. Fine. That's still no excuse for what she did and now you want to take blame for it. Wrong.

 

Maybe you should tell her to go get a job and burn off some of that excess energy rather than go partying. No doubt on your tab if she's not working. Now your sounding like your ready to take the blame for her fooling around. Wrong. She did this and now she has to own it. You can take 50% of the blame in the problems in your relationship with her and she takes the other 50 but she takes 100% for her fooling around on you and if you let her get away with it, the next time she'll tell you not to worry because the OM only got his penis half way in and she kept her eyes closed. She's shoveling more B.S. at you that you can handle. Don't fall for it. She had no business being with the guy and that's the bottom line.

[Darren Steez]

Well, if that story was true, then it's on the border of rape. I would ask her if she was willing to press charges against him or at least talk to the police to see what hey have to say on the matter.

 

If she doesn't think it is necessary, then it wasn't rape and she knew what she was there to do.

 

This. Tell her if it was indeed how it went down, then you want her to press charges as it is rape. If she's lying you'll soon know by her reaction.

[loversquarrel]

Does the phrase "Soft as **** in a tennis shoe" mean anything to you? Please tell me you have enough sense to see through this set of pathetic lies this girl is giving you.

 

You are being trickle truthed. She had sex with this guy and he probably didn't want to have anything to do with her after that so she is back with you. At least she told you they had sex, just not to what degree. Also a little clue for you....A person who lies will often times give you much more detail than required. They sound more like they are telling a story than simple truth. If you choose to stay with her, remember she owes you one.