I am not indifferent

[Spark1111]

jeez....I just had an in-law issue and I'm still married to their brother, the man who cheated on me for over a year and was confiding in one sister towards the end of it unbeknownst to me.

 

And I said: Enough. An oversight was turned into a huge we had snubbed them, meanwhile my daughter was hurt when they were eventually informed by others and STILL did not attend her event.

 

And I refused to let it lie, alternating between anger and tears.

 

I not only confronted them on this baloney, I apologized too.

 

It was refreshing to force them to confront conflict and to stop feeling hurt and victimized and to stop gossiping about it so that the children would not be hurt. They just wanted to sweep it under the rug.

 

My epiphany? Here is where he got it from....here is how he was raised. All the apples never fell to far from the tree.

 

When you see them, for the sake of your children, plant a big smile on your face and go up and shake his hand with the kids in tow and ask How you doing?

 

If they extend a kindness to your children, be sure to personally thank them and tell your children you did so.

 

THAT's taking the high road and FORCING them to confront conflict.

[peruano99]

I am glad you are doing better man. I read your first thread and I ask you this...Why did your wife tell you how her sex life with the other guy was? Did you make her tell you ? Also are you and your ex wife young or middle age?

Edited November 7, 2013 by peruano99

[dreamingoftigers]

I guess you guys are right. I need to "embrace the suck."

 

I guess I tend to think more of it as being 2.5 years since Dday and so I should be further along. I'm tired of thinking about this crap. I still don't know how you get over it.

 

I find that in general that the more pissed off you realize you are, the more it doesn't bother you after a bit as long as you acknowledge it. (I suffered a MASSIVE trauma 2 years ago regarding my family. In fact, I can't believed things have stabilized to the point that they have considering it.)

 

In regards to my own feelings, the sooner I go "oh hey, I AM really pissed off, hurt, bothered or annoyed" the sooner it starts to ebb.

 

Last week, I actually burst into tears which I haven't done in so long, just thinking about the events of two years ago and how everything crumbled and even how I have some guilt about it. But then after talking with my husband, it ebbed away. It feels more resolved now.

 

I just have to accept the fact that my life went that way, I am here now, and that every now and then a little window in my brain will pop-up reminding me of what happened and that it's okay to have an emotional response to it. Over time, those moments will lessen OR you'll adapt to the fact that they happen.

 

Even with my ex, things scarred when they ended. Every now and then he's popped up in my mind in an emotional sense. It just IS. I don't miss HIM overall, but I do notice sometimes that when I have been stressed with my husband that I will miss how I FELT with either my ex or my husband in the early days.

 

The bright side to all of this, is that in the midst of this you are making new memories that may cheer you later.

[BetrayedH]

I am glad you are doing better man. I read your first thread and I ask you this...Why did your wife tell you how her sex life with the other guy was? Did you make her tell you ? Also are you and your ex wife young or middle age?

 

I didn't ask many (perhaps any) sex questions. I assumed she enjoyed the sex or she wouldn't have gone back to it so many times.

 

Our major blow up occurred because I found a very graphic online story she had written about her first encounter with the OM. It was in a secret email account.

 

She was 37 when she started her affair and I was 39. We'd been together for about 17 years and married for about 11. The kids were 3 and 7.

[peruano99]

I didn't ask many (perhaps any) sex questions. I assumed she enjoyed the sex or she wouldn't have gone back to it so many times.

 

Our major blow up occurred because I found a very graphic online story she had written about her first encounter with the OM. It was in a secret email account.

 

She was 37 when she started her affair and I was 39. We'd been together for about 17 years and married for about 11. The kids were 3 and 7.

 

You said the man was a hispanic guy? Sorry to hear that by the way.

[BetrayedH]

You said the man was a hispanic guy? Sorry to hear that by the way.

 

Yes but please don't take away from that that I have any issues with hispanics. She described him as her "Latin Lover" so it comes to mind when thinking of him. I should have left his background out of my snarky comment the other day. The OM is actually somewhat irrelevant to me; granted, I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire but the reality is that he was just a guy happy to be getting laid by my wife. It was my wife's job to keep her legs closed.

 

By the way, I answered your revenge affair question in the other thread. But perhaps we should continue that discussion here.

[peruano99]

Yes but please don't take away from that that I have any issues with hispanics. She described him as her "Latin Lover" so it comes to mind when thinking of him. I should have left his background out of my snarky comment the other day. The OM is actually somewhat irrelevant to me; granted, I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire but the reality is that he was just a guy happy to be getting laid by my wife. It was my wife's job to keep her legs closed.

 

By the way, I answered your revenge affair question in the other thread. But perhaps we should continue that discussion here.

 

Are you two hispanic as well?

[BetrayedH]

Are you two hispanic as well?

 

No, we're both Caucasian. Perhaps that explains why I wasn't expecting her type to be a balding Hispanic guy with glasses.

[peruano99]

No, we're both Caucasian. Perhaps that explains why I wasn't expecting her type to be a balding Hispanic guy with glasses.

 

Did he look like George Constanza from Seinfeld? That's how I pictured the guy looks. Anways did your ex wife find someone else?

Edited November 7, 2013 by peruano99

[lindsay1990]

First of all, it hasn't objectively been that long.

 

ESPECIALLY since divorce was final, to me a year is noooothing or at least very little.

 

 

I think it could be helpful to clarify indifference as to what? Towards/against your XW? Or about what happened?

 

I think that will be very hard and I would venture a guess that the indifference process will being once the process to being "over it" is completed. It may never come then, but you'll be over it.

 

When I say over it I mean a place where the memory will feel distant enough to not hurt you, or when you feel it happened to somebody else even though you know it was *you*, but I guess especially when it can't take a hold of your life not even if you trigger it in yourself. When your feelings are not susceptible of being triggered. Aaaaafter that you could maybe become indifferent? Maybe if it's not caring if your ex does better or worse than you as long as your kids are okay? What if she cheats again and happens to be with a gazillionaire who takes her in, marries her and treats her like a queen for the rest of her days and definitely got away with everything and more, could you be not stung by this? Could you feel absolutely ZERO karmic outrage? (I know TaraMaiden... just using as an expression! ) Even if your own life was in shambles? Could you be not bothered in the least? This is indifference to me. I think that's hard to come by and an ambitious and successful enough goal to worry about is the acceptance, the getting over it and moving on. No pressure for indifference or any other thing that would like annul what happened (make it as if it never did) or make you the "the bigger person".

 

Must feel good to feel indifference though. Maybe someday we'll all be so lucky

[ChooseTruth]

I just wanted to point out that this is a zombie thread from mid September.

BH's feelings may still be the same, they may not.

 

How'd that picnic go? (if you can remember that far back)

[BetrayedH]

Did he look like George Constanza from Seinfeld? That's how I pictured the guy looks. Anways did your ex wife find someone else?

 

No, he was taller and a low-level executive (so he wore suits).

 

Ex-wife told my mother (back when we separated) that she'd likely never marry again. I tend to think that's true. I think she carries a good amount of guilt over ruining a perfectly good marriage but even moreso because it tore apart our kids' family. I think it'll be a good, long while before she introduces a romantic partner to the kids. In our discussions, she also said I'd have a chance to meet the guy before she did so. Hard to know what to believe, of course. I suspect that she's socializing plenty on her days without the kids and gotten laid a few times. I always found her pretty and she's got some good assets. But I think the one thing she is grasping onto is making the kids a priority; I don't think she'll give up the trump card of "being a good mother." It often feels like a competition, which is annoying (the "good mother" ship has sailed as far as I'm concerned) but at least her actions now are good for the kids. For what it's worth, I don't think she's the antiChrist and things could be much worse.

[peruano99]

No, he was taller and a low-level executive (so he wore suits).

 

Ex-wife told my mother (back when we separated) that she'd likely never marry again. I tend to think that's true. I think she carries a good amount of guilt over ruining a perfectly good marriage but even moreso because it tore apart our kids' family. I think it'll be a good, long while before she introduces a romantic partner to the kids. In our discussions, she also said I'd have a chance to meet the guy before she did so. Hard to know what to believe, of course. I suspect that she's socializing plenty on her days without the kids and gotten laid a few times. I always found her pretty and she's got some good assets. But I think the one thing she is grasping onto is making the kids a priority; I don't think she'll give up the trump card of "being a good mother." It often feels like a competition, which is annoying (the "good mother" ship has sailed as far as I'm concerned) but at least her actions now are good for the kids. For what it's worth, I don't think she's the antiChrist and things could be much worse.

 

Erm do you think she was with him because he was some kind of manager and earned a lot of money? Also what was her excuse for cheating?

Edited November 8, 2013 by peruano99

[atreides]

Betrayed is a local "LS Infidelity" hero, he has patients of steel... at least from the posts i read

 

His story is one of the few that really erks me but as heroes go... Betrayed rose above it and is still rising.

[2sunny]

If you read the book The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz - it may help you a lot!

 

It helped me immensely. Small book - big message.

[Steadfast]

You're not indifferent because you haven't been allowed to develop that. You can't because you still see her. Seeing her slows your healing. After you're healed, seeing her won't matter as much. You'll be...indifferent.

 

Tell me friend, when you do see her now, what percentage is love and what percentage is loathing?

 

At this point, I see you really not wanting to feel the pull. I imagine by now you've reached your limit of patience with the whole "process". That's good news, because being (or feeling) indifferent is a direct result of your remaining love/lust/romantic attraction being snuffed out by repeated reminders that you're actually happier when you don't have to see her.

 

That's the way it was for me. Even 18-20 months after the divorce my heart would skip when I'd hear her voice (she'd just drop in to see the kids whenever...) but her actions/reactions pounded reality until it finally took hold. I can't pinpoint the day or month, but I can say the change was gradual. Ups and downs. Dreams and reminders. All slowly fading.

 

Cut the contact more. Lean it way down. You will reach this point to enter into a new reality...with new challenges and issues to face.

 

Life goes on.

[beach]

It might be useful to write out - for yourself- what "indifferent" is supposed to look like and feel like.

 

Once I could describe what my goal would look and feel like - I could figure out how to take steps toward that goal.

 

 

I can't imagine that you're dating - it's really not fair to the new gal if/since you're still harboring feelings for your exwife.

[peruano99]

What was her excuse for the affair?

[BetrayedH]

First of all, it hasn't objectively been that long.

 

ESPECIALLY since divorce was final, to me a year is noooothing or at least very little.

 

 

I think it could be helpful to clarify indifference as to what? Towards/against your XW? Or about what happened?

 

I think that will be very hard and I would venture a guess that the indifference process will being once the process to being "over it" is completed. It may never come then, but you'll be over it.

 

When I say over it I mean a place where the memory will feel distant enough to not hurt you, or when you feel it happened to somebody else even though you know it was *you*, but I guess especially when it can't take a hold of your life not even if you trigger it in yourself. When your feelings are not susceptible of being triggered. Aaaaafter that you could maybe become indifferent? Maybe if it's not caring if your ex does better or worse than you as long as your kids are okay? What if she cheats again and happens to be with a gazillionaire who takes her in, marries her and treats her like a queen for the rest of her days and definitely got away with everything and more, could you be not stung by this? Could you feel absolutely ZERO karmic outrage? (I know TaraMaiden... just using as an expression! ) Even if your own life was in shambles? Could you be not bothered in the least? This is indifference to me. I think that's hard to come by and an ambitious and successful enough goal to worry about is the acceptance, the getting over it and moving on. No pressure for indifference or any other thing that would like annul what happened (make it as if it never did) or make you the "the bigger person".

 

Must feel good to feel indifference though. Maybe someday we'll all be so lucky

 

Thanks Lindsay. You gave me a lot to chew on. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to reply until late and by the time I drafted a lengthy reply my phone died. Grr.

 

The much shorter version is that it's a bruised ego/self-confidence thing. I was never enough for my wife. Her affair and the divorce was the ultimate exclamation point. But your post helped me get more specific and that has to do with my career. To be brief, I was happy with doing a good job and a gradual upward mobility. My wife was more driven and it was a socio-political game of connections. We always brought in about the same amount of money (usually slightly more from me) but her aspirations were always for more and more success. I was happy with our jobs, home, kids, cars, and so forth. Anyway, I lost my job the same week as my divorce finalized (which effectively ended my 20-year career in that industry - a very small and technical one). While I had saved significantly for all of those years and I'm still doing some freelance consulting, I am eating at that nest egg. I think I just have a fear of dropping the ball, not being able to support my family, and proving my ex to have been right. I have lacked direction for too long and I think that's what's eating at me. It's time that was rectified.

 

As for what happens with her, I don't much care. She'll be successful and will always have her wealthy family to back her up. That's good for my kids and I have no sense of competition with them. They're aholes.

 

I also agree that it's too early for indifference; Jonah opened my eyes to that one. And yeah, indifference may be too lofty a goal anyway.

[BetrayedH]

I just wanted to point out that this is a zombie thread from mid September.

BH's feelings may still be the same, they may not.

 

How'd that picnic go? (if you can remember that far back)

 

My state of mind has improved in one area: I seem to be able to avoid or let go of anger easier lately. My short fuse is growing longer, I've been more amiable (E.g. Letting her family take my son to a Gator game this week on one of my days), and I think it's having a softening effect. We're more cordial; we'll see if that lasts.

 

As for the picnic, she said her family wasn't coming (sigh of relief) but then her mother showed up anyway. I offered food and drink which was declined without a word. They left after the ceremony and before the picnic. The silent treatment is unsustainable. You can't be rude for years and expect no reaction. One day I will also be rude and I won't be silent about it. To avoid that happening in front of the kids, I'm considering brainstorming a solution with the ex (for her to intervene with her mother). Her mother has said some rude things about me in front of me and my patience is wearing thin. I think my ex will see the wisdom of getting us to a better place. But my ex and I are not yet that amiable so I'm holding off for now.

[BetrayedH]

Erm do you think she was with him because he was some kind of manager and earned a lot of money? Also what was her excuse for cheating?

 

I think he took her under her wing from a professional standpoint (he was her boss) and that validation was well-received. She looked up to him. Then they started talking about their oh-so-troubled marriages and it went textbook from there.

 

What was her excuse? How much time do we have here? She had every excuse and they were all nonsensical. I have a better understanding of why she cheated than she does. Her short answer would be that she'd been unhappy with our marriage for years.

[BetrayedH]

Betrayed is a local "LS Infidelity" hero, he has patients of steel... at least from the posts i read

 

His story is one of the few that really erks me but as heroes go... Betrayed rose above it and is still rising.

 

Thanks atreides. It might be nice if I could take advice as well as I give it.

 

I think my patience comes from having made many mistakes of my own. Granted, most of them were under rather extreme duress but still, it keeps me from being judgmental of people that are trying. I would rather see people make course corrections than to see marriages fail. And this place was extraordinarily helpful to me; many people did it just for the sake of being helpful and that set a good example for me. If my experience can help anyone on any point of the triangle to make a course correction and heal, I'm glad to give back.

[BetrayedH]

If you read the book The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz - it may help you a lot!

 

It helped me immensely. Small book - big message.

 

Thanks Sunny. I'll check it out. I seem to be good with hindsight but not so good at knowing what's in front of me. I appreciate you sharing your experience since you're further down the road.

[BetrayedH]

You're not indifferent because you haven't been allowed to develop that. You can't because you still see her. Seeing her slows your healing. After you're healed, seeing her won't matter as much. You'll be...indifferent.

 

Tell me friend, when you do see her now, what percentage is love and what percentage is loathing?

 

At this point, I see you really not wanting to feel the pull. I imagine by now you've reached your limit of patience with the whole "process". That's good news, because being (or feeling) indifferent is a direct result of your remaining love/lust/romantic attraction being snuffed out by repeated reminders that you're actually happier when you don't have to see her.

 

That's the way it was for me. Even 18-20 months after the divorce my heart would skip when I'd hear her voice (she'd just drop in to see the kids whenever...) but her actions/reactions pounded reality until it finally took hold. I can't pinpoint the day or month, but I can say the change was gradual. Ups and downs. Dreams and reminders. All slowly fading.

 

Cut the contact more. Lean it way down. You will reach this point to enter into a new reality...with new challenges and issues to face.

 

Life goes on.

 

I can relate to a lot of this. I think we're kindred spirits in some respects as our end results were similar.

 

I can say that contact is extremely limited. We see each other in the driveway once a week. There's the occasional extracurricular event. We're not chatty at all, no personal dialogue. Almost all communication is by email; more timely issues by text. I laughed at the part about your ex just stopping by; that definitely doesn't happen. I'm actually wondering if some of the strict LC might be keeping us a bit stuck. We see each other so rarely that it's like we have swords at the ready when we do.

 

As for what I feel when I see her, I don't think love or loathing are the right words at all. It's more awkward and irritating. It's hardly even about her. I guess I would just like that chapter of my life over altogether but that ain't happening. I will say that many times I leave the exchanges feeling hurt; it's so business-like that it's like I never mattered.

[BetrayedH]

It might be useful to write out - for yourself- what "indifferent" is supposed to look like and feel like.

 

Once I could describe what my goal would look and feel like - I could figure out how to take steps toward that goal.

 

 

I can't imagine that you're dating - it's really not fair to the new gal if/since you're still harboring feelings for your exwife.

 

I'm a checklist kinda guy so writing goals resonates with me; but I'm admittedly better at the short-term stuff. I'm definitely lacking long-term direction. I had all of my eggs one basket and that had everything to do with a nuclear family.

 

As or my GF, she's not threatened by my ex, nor should she be. My feelings for my ex aren't of the romantic nature. My issues have more to do with what my next life looks like. She is also divorced and I think that helps us relate.