Remarks on CBS on Sunday morning... Ben Stein

[HokeyReligions]

I got this today & thought it interesting. It should spark some interesting dialogue.

-----------------------

 

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on a CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

 

My confession:

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think

Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians.

 

I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed

around, period.

 

I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly

atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it

being shoved down my throat.

 

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we

should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we

understand Him?

 

I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us

who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the

America we knew went to.

 

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a

little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's

intended to get you thinking.

 

In light of recent events - terrorists attacks, school shootings, etc. I

think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body

found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools,

and we said OK.

 

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school.

 

The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your

neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

 

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they

misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might

damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an

expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

 

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they

don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill

strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

 

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it

out. I think it has a great deal to do with, 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

 

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the

world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but

question what the Bible says.

 

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like

wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think

twice about sharing.

 

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through

cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and

workplace.

 

Are you laughing yet?

 

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on

your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they

will think of you for sending it.

 

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than

what God thinks of us.

 

 

My Best Regards, Honestly and Respectfully,

 

Ben Stein

[M30USA]

Ben Stein is hilarious!

[pie2]

I don't know if life in the US is as bleak as it's made out in the article, but there are definitely some things I agree with. Though I am all for the separation of church and state, it goes too far when the anti-religious movements prevent others from expressing their own religious beliefs at all.

 

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

 

I am not 100% sure how I feel about spanking, as I don't have kids. But the Old Testament does advocate strict consequences for misbehavior. Since Jesus though, is spanking really still the best way to instruct kids?

 

(I looked up the claim about Spock's son, but I think that it was actually his grandson that committed suicide. Gotta love the internet!)

 

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill

strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

 

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it

out. I think it has a great deal to do with, 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

 

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the

world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but

question what the Bible says.

 

Yeah, I agree...we reap what we sow. As an individual and as a nation, God considers everything we do. But, a nation's rise or fall won't ultimately decide our fates as individuals, thank goodness!! Luckily we are responsible for our own personal futures .

[M30USA]

I am not 100% sure how I feel about spanking, as I don't have kids. But the Old Testament does advocate strict consequences for misbehavior. Since Jesus though, is spanking really still the best way to instruct kids?

 

The Bible is as clear as day on this subject. Some of the lesser known verses might even shock you. One verse says to literally "beat" your child when he misbehaves so that you save his soul from going down into "the pit". This was standard practice for parents up until 50 years ago--the same time at which our nation's behavior went down the drain. Corporal discipline may not be nice, but the alternative is worse. (Before anyone spazzes out I'm not advocating beating up your kids. Beating in the Bible would be the equivalent of paddling in catholic school.)

 

I have actually been banned by a family court judge from using any corporal discipline on my kids. My ex accused me of child abuse (shot down by judge and CPS) but they still took the liberty to remove my parental rights to reasonable discipline. I truly believe that my ex wife will be held accountable to God on judgement day for why she clearly violated my rights to follow Scriptural commands to use corporal discipline on my kids. God has wrath reserved for any persons who would prohibit another person from being able to obey his commands.

Edited September 17, 2013 by M30USA

[pie2]

The Bible is as clear as day on this subject. Some of the lesser known verses might even shock you. One verse says to literally "beat" your child when he misbehaves so that you save his soul from going down into "the pit". This was standard practice for parents up until 50 years ago--the same time at which our nation's behavior went down the drain. Corporal discipline may not be nice, but the alternative is worse.

 

I have actually been banned by a family court judge from using any corporal discipline on my kids. My ex accused me of child abuse (shot down by judge and CPS) but they still took the liberty to remove my parental rights to reasonable discipline. I truly believe that my ex wife will be held accountable to God on judgement day for why she clearly violated Scriptural commands to use corporal discipline on kids.

 

The OT has many examples of using corporal punishment. And there's no doubt the NT encourages discipline. But Jesus came, and the NT says that "The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus". ~John 1:17 Is corporal punishment really necessary?

 

To be honest, at this point, I do think spanking (NOT physical abuse) is probably appropriate at a certain age. But after a child has grown past a certain age, it's not effective at all (actually probably destructive).

 

But there's still a part of me that wonders if spanking is ever necessary or effective, and it there are not better ways to instruct/discipline a child...

 

[Robert Z]

I got this today & thought it interesting. It should spark some interesting dialogue.

-----------------------

 

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on a CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

 

My confession:

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think

Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians.

 

I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed

around, period.

 

Getting pushed around? It seems to me that we have only stopped the religious folks from pushing the rest of us around. A student can pray in silence. Does this really need to be institutionalized? Do we really need some formal recognition of every mystical belief? Take the entire Christmas decorations business. God forbid, we aren't supposed to ask the public to pay for specific religious symbols on public property around Christmas time. This is unfair, why? Or better yet, why is it fair the the government to promote specific religious beliefs at my expense?

 

A woman wants the right to choose if she carries a baby to full term; a cancer patient wants the right to chose when and how to die, and a desperately lonely man seeks out comfort in the arms of an escort, but who opposes these rights at every turn? Who tries to invade our personal lives, direct our personal choices, and tell us who we can and cannot have sex with, how to live, and even how much we have to suffer before we die - the religious believers who desire control who can't stand to see a world other than what they envision.

 

Religion has been brainwashing and controlling the masses since the beginning of time. What Ben Stein is crying about is the loss of control - the awakening of the public to the absurd mandates and invasions in all of our lives by religious mysticism ever since we were sacrificing children on the altar [a great act of faith, right Abraham?]. And note that some "Christians" are still sacrificing their children for their beliefs by refusing them medical treatment.

 

I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it

being shoved down my throat.

 

I have no idea where he gets this statement. We have freedom of and FROM religion. It's the FROM part that seems to bother him.

 

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?

 

The last time I checked, we still have freedom of religion. What has Ben been smoking?

 

I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the

America we knew went to.

 

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a

little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's

intended to get you thinking.

 

In light of recent events - terrorists attacks, school shootings, etc. I

think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

 

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school.

 

The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your

neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

 

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they

misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might

damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an

expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.

 

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they

don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill

strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

 

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it

out. I think it has a great deal to do with, 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

 

Yes we do. In fact, violent crime is down and dropping on the average nationwide. It is a function of population and the age distribution. Most crimes are committed by young men. When we have a population bulge for young men passing through, crime goes up. That bulge has now passed so the violent crime rates are dropping.

 

And did he REALLY say terrorism - you mean those nuts driven by religious beliefs who would bring the world to its knees based on the voices in their heads?

 

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.

 

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like

wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.

 

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through

cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and

workplace.

 

Are you laughing yet?

 

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on

your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they

will think of you for sending it.

 

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than

what God thinks of us.

 

 

My Best Regards, Honestly and Respectfully,

 

Ben Stein

 

Funny how Ben argues by using straw men and factually incorrect statements. People are free to discuss god or religion to their hearts content. The only difference is that finally, finally, finally, we are asserting our Constitutional right to not listen and to be free FROM the mystical beliefs of those wish to control the lives of everyone else.

[M30USA]

The OT has many examples of using corporal punishment. And there's no doubt the NT encourages discipline. But Jesus came, and the NT says that "The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus". ~John 1:17 Is corporal punishment really necessary?

 

To be honest, at this point, I do think spanking (NOT physical abuse) is probably appropriate at a certain age. But after a child has grown past a certain age, it's not effective at all (actually probably destructive).

 

But there's still a part of me that wonders if spanking is ever necessary or effective, and it there are not better ways to instruct/discipline a child...

 

 

If you had kids, you might reconsider. Spanking is not my first choice. (It's never a choice now for me, unfortunately, since a judge took away my rights.) But you'd be surprised at certain times the utter defiance and brazenness of kids. Plus if they KNOW you won't ever spank them, they will be more emboldened. A great many pastors have said that children are not innocent. They are merely too weak to fully act on their desires. If they had the strength of adults and the resources, they would be worse than Hitler. Don't believe the modern trash. Kids need strict discipline. The bible is unequivocal on this. I just thank The Lord that I had ENOUGH time with my kids before the judge took my rights away. I had a few years where I turned them into disciplined and great kids. Had I lost my rights earlier, I fear what would have happened..

[M30USA]

Anyway, I'm just sad that in our society it's now being labelled "abusive" to use corporal discipline. Unfortunately we will reap the consequences next generation when he see how there is no fear of God, respect for authority, and personality disorders are on the rise.

 

Is it any wonder how, when kids grow up thinking spanking (etc) is abusuve, they read the Bible, see how God is wrathful with his punishment of sin, and they think he is a tyrant, cruel and mean? It all ties together. We are to instill the fear of God in children. We are to model our parenting after God, himself. Be quick and merciful to forgive youthful mistakes, but have zero tolerance of intentional defiance. Isn't that how God deals with us?

Edited September 17, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

The OT has many examples of using corporal punishment. And there's no doubt the NT encourages discipline. But Jesus came, and the NT says that "The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus". ~John 1:17 Is corporal punishment really necessary?

 

To be honest, at this point, I do think spanking (NOT physical abuse) is probably appropriate at a certain age. But after a child has grown past a certain age, it's not effective at all (actually probably destructive).

 

But there's still a part of me that wonders if spanking is ever necessary or effective, and it there are not better ways to instruct/discipline a child...

 

 

You know Pie, IMO it's about using wisdom. Most that I see around me aren't consistent concerning discipline and actually lack in knowledge as to what, how and when to administer it.

 

It all depends on the child. There's a fine line, like some kids are strong-willed...this can be a good trait if the right circumstances are present, but if left to his/her own a strong-willed child can turn into a monster.

 

It's knowing who your kids are and what they're about, getting into their heads constantly, teaching them the ways of God, interceding for them (and I mean straight up spiritual warfare). Knowing what their anointings are helps tremendously as this will give indication on the type of attack they will encounter...in essence there's a lot to it and should not be entered into lightly.

 

IMO not one method of discipline should be used as "the" method, and when any method used outside of the guidance of God, well it's not effective. God ALWAYS lets the punishment fit the crime- He's perfect, so I went to Him, because I'm stupid (not using the term stupid to cut myself down verbally- outside of God I am stupid:)).

 

M30- I hate the games the courts are playing, but in all fairness the courts are going by what your ex has communicated to them, so for safety purposes they had no choice due to the "world" being in operation and those that lack the wisdom as to how discipline should be administered- because of abusers, we all pay a price- especially the kids.

[M30USA]

(Posted this in error, sorry.)

[pie2]

You know Pie, IMO it's about using wisdom. Most that I see around me aren't consistent concerning discipline and actually lack in knowledge as to what, how and when to administer it.

 

It all depends on the child. There's a fine line, like some kids are strong-willed...this can be a good trait if the right circumstances are present, but if left to his/her own a strong-willed child can turn into a monster.

 

It's knowing who your kids are and what they're about, getting into their heads constantly, teaching them the ways of God, interceding for them (and I mean straight up spiritual warfare). Knowing what their anointings are helps tremendously as this will give indication on the type of attack they will encounter...in essence there's a lot to it and should not be entered into lightly.

 

IMO not one method of discipline should be used as "the" method, and when any method used outside of the guidance of God, well it's not effective. God ALWAYS lets the punishment fit the crime- He's perfect, so I went to Him, because I'm stupid (not using the term stupid to cut myself down verbally- outside of God I am stupid:)).

 

Very wise post, pih . You are so right; letting God guide our actions is ALWAYS the best plan! And each kid is so different, so consequences should match the child. Knowing a child's anointing and weakness is probably crucial. Great advice!