hotpotato Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Have these guys actually told you that they desire a relationship and not just casual sex, or are you just assuming it because he asked you out and paid? If a man doesnt want to get to know me, then he shouldnt have asked me on a date at all, period. If he wanted sex, there are plenty of outlets for a man, many of which are mere clicks away. Instead he has chosen to treat me like a prostitute instead of hiring one. This is most guys, hate to say. 1
Els Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) If a man doesnt want to get to know me, then he shouldnt have asked me on a date at all, period. If he wanted sex, there are plenty of outlets for a man, many of which are mere clicks away. Instead he has chosen to treat me like a prostitute instead of hiring one. This is most guys, hate to say. I don't think it's for you to say that. Some people view dating as a casual or short-term thing, not as a prelude to a long-term relationship. That is their right. For your sake, IMO YOU should explicitly talk to the guy about what YOU want before you have sex with him. That does include the exclusivity and LTR talk. If you have that talk, he agrees, he has sex with you, and then disappears... then yes, he is a douche and a liar. Otherwise, you really share part of the blame. Edit: This is a general 'you', by the way, not specifically you, since you have already said that you've learnt your lesson and are going to turn down men who want sex too early. Edited September 23, 2013 by Elswyth 2
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I hope you are not implying a woman who has had plenty of sex can't be faithful. I'm not saying that they CAN'T be faithful. I'm just saying, in my experience and observation, they are less likely to be faithful (due to boredom with being monogamous, etc). Again, this is all anecdotal evidence based on what I've seen personally. For me, personally, it's not so much about that. I don't see the purpose of getting into a relationship unless I believe that it may lead to marriage and children. To be honest, I'd like to raise my daughters with a woman that does not support women sleeping around (because I don't think that they will attract the right kind of partners that way). I don't want a wife that advocates that kind of behavior. Again, as I said, these are my own personal opinions and I realize that most will not agree with me and I'm okay with that. 1
Els Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I personally cannot be exclusive with a woman that has a promiscuous past, despite the fact that I have a promiscuous past. I realize that this is a double standard and this may make me sexist. I'm okay with that, as it is my personal opinion and feelings on the matter. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. IMO, though, you are less likely to find a woman with few sexual partners who is okay with your promiscuous past. Of those who are, even fewer will be okay with your double standard. I'm speaking as a woman with few sexual partners, with several friends who have few sexual partners, and a LTR partner with few sexual partners. None of us girls are thrilled at the thought of a man who has been around the town but thinks he is entitled to us by virtue of an antiquated double standard - hence why we pick partners who are similar to us. People are attracted to people with similar mindsets. If you truly desire to settle down with a wife who doesn't believe in sleeping around, the best way to achieve that goal would be to stop doing so yourself. You can't change the past, but you can change the future. 2
HoneyBadgerDontCare Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 You're certainly entitled to your opinion. IMO, though, you are less likely to find a woman with few sexual partners who is okay with your promiscuous past. Of those who are, even fewer will be okay with your double standard. I'm speaking as a woman with few sexual partners, with several friends who have few sexual partners, and a LTR partner with few sexual partners. None of us girls are thrilled at the thought of a man who has been around the town but thinks he is entitled to us by virtue of an antiquated double standard - hence why we pick partners who are similar to us. People are attracted to people with similar mindsets. If you truly desire to settle down with a wife who doesn't believe in sleeping around, the best way to achieve that goal would be to stop doing so yourself. You can't change the past, but you can change the future. I no longer sleep around and I'm currently committed to a girl that has had few sexual partners. She's okay with my double standard.
RedRobin Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I no longer sleep around and I'm currently committed to a girl that has had few sexual partners. She's okay with my double standard. Then she can look forward to you cheating on her when you get bored. 1
RedRobin Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Do you tell them you want no strings attached? You are penalizing her. You asked for sex, she gave it to you. You assumed she was easy, and left. If a dude wants sex in first three dates that normal. If a girl gives it to him she is easy and a guy must move on the the next. All she did was give him what he was asking. What I proposed doing is no more rude than a hump and dump. What am i supposed to do, really? If I had sex with him, I'm easy and he will leave after sex. He has led me on by taking me on a date. Many guys will push hard for sex right away, and that's not what I want so I will leave and quickly. If he only wanted sex, it was not necessary to take me on a date. He should have been honest. If he can assume i'm easy for having sex early, I will assume he is only after one thing and is showing his true intentions for pushing for sex early. So...Adios! People just need to be honest about their intentions. Like," I want to have sex with you. If you give it to me, i will probably leave because you are a slut. Cool with that?" More like from puberty to death. At least we can agree. This is why I advise young women looking for a relationship to either dump men who push for early sex or... go ahead and have sex with him then dump him immediately after if things get out of hand. None of this silly chasing around and stupid 'pick me, pick me' behavior I see so many women falling into. IMHO, if he's pushing for early sex, then by default, women can toss anything he SAYS right out the window...
taiko Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 In the late 80s the first generation raise by free love 60s folks was coming to dating age. And we had recently gone through the incurable herpes and HIV scares. MILFs was just a porn inspired fantasy. However most still got married before having children. While it is an eternal quest for men to stick their penis into somone else there were still social conventions to control them. Skip to now MILFs of porn are now cougars of mainstream entertainment. Gay sex is freely available and even pushed. Most kids are born to singles and for the most part their is no society holding you back from sex. Add into the account if you are the same person the fear of pregnancy is almost over. Three strikes your out is now mainstreamed.
RedRobin Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 While it is an eternal quest for men to stick their penis into somone else there were still social conventions to control them. One of the things I DO like about things these days is that now men are compelled to control their sexuality on their own... not hand that responsibility over to women to manage. I also like that, while pregnancy is less of a worry, there are still men who would prefer a relationship over casual sex... and SHOCK... learn they need to exercise discretion and restraint of their own will... not hers... So, yea, it's a time where both men and women get to exercise free will... which comes with a price. 1
Els Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I also like that, while pregnancy is less of a worry, there are still men who would prefer a relationship over casual sex... and SHOCK... learn they need to exercise discretion and restraint of their own will... not hers... Yes, contrary to popular LS belief, there absolutely are men who are capable of thinking with their upper head and not the lower one. To the right woman, that makes them all the more manly and appealing. 2
gaius Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Yes, contrary to popular LS belief, there absolutely are men who are capable of thinking with their upper head and not the lower one. To the right woman, that makes them all the more manly and appealing. Maybe they just have smaller testicles than normal, like the guys who end up being great fathers. Or mentors.
Pompeii Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I'm speaking as a woman with few sexual partners, with several friends who have few sexual partners, and a LTR partner with few sexual partners. None of us girls are thrilled at the thought of a man who has been around the town but thinks he is entitled to us by virtue of an antiquated double standard - hence why we pick partners who are similar to us. People are attracted to people with similar mindsets. And... I disagree. One of my friends told me of the concept of "preselection" in which guys who are seen with more women and have success with more women are attractive to women. I have also seen scientific studies that back this up. A lot of women are attracted to men that do or have the potential to sleep around. 1
Pompeii Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 IMHO, if he's pushing for early sex, then by default, women can toss anything he SAYS right out the window... If he doesn't push early for sex, the woman will think he is sexually invalid. The man is better off pushing for sex earlier than not. 1
hotpotato Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I'm not saying that they CAN'T be faithful. I'm just saying, in my experience and observation, they are less likely to be faithful (due to boredom with being monogamous, etc). Again, this is all anecdotal evidence based on what I've seen personally. For me, personally, it's not so much about that. I don't see the purpose of getting into a relationship unless I believe that it may lead to marriage and children. To be honest, I'd like to raise my daughters with a woman that does not support women sleeping around (because I don't think that they will attract the right kind of partners that way). I don't want a wife that advocates that kind of behavior. Again, as I said, these are my own personal opinions and I realize that most will not agree with me and I'm okay with that. So I can assume many men or most men would be unfaithful? Or does this logic only apply to women?
hotpotato Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 If he doesn't push early for sex, the woman will think he is sexually invalid. The man is better off pushing for sex earlier than not. Not with me. He'll get the boot real fast. I mean fast, as he hasn't finished the sentence. Dudes who push for sex early are a complete waste of time most of the time. 2
RedRobin Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 And... I disagree. One of my friends told me of the concept of "preselection" in which guys who are seen with more women and have success with more women are attractive to women. I have also seen scientific studies that back this up. A lot of women are attracted to men that do or have the potential to sleep around. Only with women who are like sheep. you like sheep??
dichotomy Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 My expereince in the early 2000's between marriages, in on line dating - was that women acted much more like men. They did the choosing, they decided to be sexually involved quickly, and then decided wether to move on or not. But then again when I was in college in the very late 80's I got more than a few women being very forward for sex then too. But college is also that time for sowing oats.
Sugarless Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 The probme is that they don't know how to be "good" men. I agree mostly with what Pompeii posted. I have not read the book but i believe that what is meant by "good men" is subject of choice of whatever definition women agree on.
Pompeii Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 The probme is that they don't know how to be "good" men. That's not problem. You do realize that just because something is "masculine' or "feminine" it is not inherently good right? There are aspects of both "masculinity" and "femininity" that can be very positive. But there are also some selfish aspects of both gender as well. And I think closer to the truth is that men and women need each other and that neither masculinity or femininity is superior to the other.I don't believe in "good" or "evil". I believe that some things are less just than others when it comes to harming human beings but I do not believe that something as intangible as masculinity can be ascribed relative morality traits. All I know is that if it wasn't for masculinity, we wouldn't be sitting here discussing this.
hotpotato Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I don't think it's for you to say that. Some people view dating as a casual or short-term thing, not as a prelude to a long-term relationship. That is their right. For your sake, IMO YOU should explicitly talk to the guy about what YOU want before you have sex with him. That does include the exclusivity and LTR talk. If you have that talk, he agrees, he has sex with you, and then disappears... then yes, he is a douche and a liar. Otherwise, you really share part of the blame. Edit: This is a general 'you', by the way, not specifically you, since you have already said that you've learnt your lesson and are going to turn down men who want sex too early. Hmm..I'm not sure if I would call most of what happens nowadays as dating, not even casual. Dating casually would be like if a guy and i went on a couple dates, maybe hung out, went traveling, but were not planning to get serious. What's going on often is a potential hit and run situation, not dating, even though he might take you on a date or talk a good game.
Pompeii Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Only with women who are like sheep. you like sheep?? Ah, the ol' exclusionary argument. "I'm not like that, but the other 98% are". That's like the oldest self-rationalization/self-defense mechanism in the book. Fact of the matter is that a majority of women are like sheep. For a guy to be with a girl, he needs to get vetted by her stupid little friends. If her friends say he's a loser or a creep, then she'll start to believe it too. Preselection is backed up by science. If you try to disprove science, you might as well go join the Flat Earth Society. 2
Pompeii Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Not with me. He'll get the boot real fast. I mean fast, as he hasn't finished the sentence. Dudes who push for sex early are a complete waste of time most of the time. I'm sure... Anyway, what is "early"? One person's early can be another person's late.
Pompeii Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I acutally think it would greatly benefit men to begin to define what a "good man" means to them as well. I certainly think women should have some say in what qualifies as a good men, after all men certianly have a say in what qualifies a good woman. But I have no issue with men also setting standards among themselves that reflect the goodness of who they are. Left up to a lot of women, a "good man" is someone who does what she says all the time, never argues, always compliments her, buys her things, etc. We're seeing the results of what happens when women and commercial culture try to wholly define masculinity. It's not pretty. 1
hotpotato Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I'm sure... Anyway, what is "early"? One person's early can be another person's late. Late for many guys is two hours. Id maybe give a guy a month or two depending on how many dates we go on.
Pompeii Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Well, I believe in "good" and "evil". And I think that most people want to be "good". "Good" and "evil" are inherent qualities to life anyway. I'm not sure how one can't believe in them. Morality itself could be more up for discussion since morality can be seen fluid from culture to culture. But the basis of "good" and "evil" are timeless and span cultures. Most people do not want to be "good", most people only want to serve their self-interests. If being "good" is the way to accomplish that, then people will be good. In our current culture, there are way too many disincentives to be "good" than being "evil". But this is a discussion for another time. If it wasn't for your Momma you wouldn't be sitting here at all. Jokes aside, masculinity and feminity are needed just as much as each other. Attaching a stronger worth on masculinity over feminity does no one any favors. The same way as it would be if a greater worth was attached to femininity over masculinity. It's too bad you can't see that. Just because I am attaching any kind of worth on masculinity does not mean I am downplaying femininity. I am just saying that being masculine, acting masculine, THE state of masculinity has been bashed and downplayed in contemporary culture to the point where people think it is barbaric, useless, and antiquated. We have an entire generation of children raised by the government instead of positive male role models. Don't you think there'd be some type of disconnect down the line? We have an entire generation of men afraid of being and acting masculine because they don't feel that it's "right". Why, because the television told them so. Ever heard how in history when raiders invade a city or village, they kill all the men first? Without strong men, women and children are extremely susceptible to outside forces. Of course there are women now who are extremely independent and such but as a whole, a culture cannot survive without men who don't know what their role is. Men are protectors, hunters, by nature. The modern world does not allow many men to address those roles.
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