He knows about my affair but hasn't said anything [update: disclosed]

[Scott Thomas]

I'm not the OP but I'll bite. When I was unfaithful, my character during the A was very poor. There's no denying that. I failed the test miserably.

 

The next question is this:

 

Does a portion of my life that was radically different (in a bad way) from the other 40 something years of my life define my permanent true character, or can one change one's character?

 

That is the crux of the matter in some ways. There are those who believe that infidelity can be an aberration, and there are those who believe that no matter how good a WS's character was before the A or becomes again after the A - it is only the A that matters. In other words, though "good people" can do all manner of things and still be "good people" again.....an affair means you never were good and never will be good again. Lots of those people post on forums, and I always HOPE that they are divorced because I wouldn't want to be their spouse - erm - permanent scapegoat.

 

 

I understand the subtle point you have made. You are basing your answer on your own particular circumstances. After reading your thread, I would blame your husband for the problems you two faced, despite your betrayal by having an affair. However, you actually made a effort to revive the passions/emotions you once felt but were ignored by your husband. Sophie made no such attempt and just barged head long into an affair.

 

Q) Does a portion of my life that was radically different (in a bad way) from the other 40 something years of my life define my permanent true character, or can one change one's character?

 

A) No it does not, but this does not reduce the pain your spouse is feeling, or the fallout the children might experience. Both of these can by mitigated by your efforts post-affair. On the other hand, when you murder another person, would a judge/jury absolve you from any blame because you were a good person before you committed the crime and have sworn to amend your ways from now onwards? You might get a lighter sentence but you still incur a penalty. This record stays with you and the other members of society could base their opinions/decisions on this particular fault of yours. While you are entitled to resent them and hope that they are 'divorced', they are perfectly entitled to form their own opinions.

 

It is easy to say that some people focus more on the A when you are not the betrayed spouse. If you experienced what they went through, you would have a very different opinion. You've typed that you wouldn't want to be their spouse? They could easily say the same about you (and they'll have extra ammunition-your affair). As for the assumption that these people are 'good people', that label depends on the opinion of their betrayed spouses. Obviously, no cheating spouse, nor the OM, would view themselves as bad people. Their betrayed spouse might form a different opinion. Good and Bad are mere labels that originate from someone's views and can not be universally applied. (If I hide my assets to reduce the tax I'm charged, the government officer views me as a bad person but my children/spouse may still think that I am a good person who made a bad mistake. Does this absolve me from the government officer's wrath when I am discovered? NO).

 

You have a unique opportunity-your husband has decided to forgive you and you two are working on your marriage. For some people (Sophie's husband), an affair is a deal breaker and they can not forgive their spouses. That is their God-given right and you, nor any other poster for that matter, should condemn them for making that choice. Their life-they'll live it the way the want. Any resentment a WS may feel is misplaced by the emotions/decisions of the BS. In your case, how you act afterwards can cloud the negative opinion some people may form. I've read your thread and believe you're working on reconciling with your husband. That is what matters now.

 

An emotionally unavailable spouse who did not respond to your pleas for 'help' is a very different case from "I love him and he loved me, I had everything I needed but I thought I could have meaningless sex on the side and didn't think I would get caught/face the consequences of my actions".

Edited October 5, 2013 by Scott Thomas

[janedoe67]

An emotionally unavailable spouse who did not respond to your pleas for 'help' is a very different case from "I love him and he loved me, I had everything I needed but I thought I could have meaningless sex on the side and didn't think I would get caught/face the consequences of my actions".

 

I'm not sure in the final analysis it really IS different. I have come to believe that wrong is wrong...and if something is wrong than it is wrong no matter what the surrounding circumstances. In the end, no matter what my H did or did not do for our M, I still cheated.

[lindsay1990]

I'm new to forum so I apologize if I'm wrong but, shouldn't this speculation about WS motives go in another thread? Just as Coolit made her "How could you"?

 

Just because this keeps getting bumped and I keep thinking Sofie has updated.

[Scott Thomas]

I'm new to forum so I apologize if I'm wrong but, shouldn't this speculation about WS motives go in another thread? Just as Coolit made her "How could you"?

 

Just because this keeps getting bumped and I keep thinking Sofie has updated.

 

Sorry dear, won't happen again. However, my question to Sophie still stands...

[road]

I'm not the OP but I'll bite. When I was unfaithful, my character during the A was very poor. There's no denying that. I failed the test miserably.

 

The next question is this:

 

Does a portion of my life that was radically different (in a bad way) from the other 40 something years of my life define my permanent true character, or can one change one's character?

 

That is the crux of the matter in some ways. There are those who believe that infidelity can be an aberration, and there are those who believe that no matter how good a WS's character was before the A or becomes again after the A - it is only the A that matters. In other words, though "good people" can do all manner of things and still be "good people" again.....an affair means you never were good and never will be good again. Lots of those people post on forums, and I always HOPE that they are divorced because I wouldn't want to be their spouse - erm - permanent scapegoat.

 

A man can go to work for 20 years. Average Joe in average job.

At 40 he gets drunk, DWI, 2 years in the big house.

He works another 20 years.

62 he collect social security.

 

He will always be the guy that did 2 years for the DWI.

 

Brilliant Dr, scientist, educator, same 20 years, same DWI, same jail time.

Continues brilliant career another 20 years.

62 he collects SS.

 

He will be always remember as the Dr, scientist, educator that was the guy that had his career interrupted with the DWI.

 

Some things are not forgotten.

 

Even things that are forgiven are not forgotten.

[janedoe67]

A man can go to work for 20 years. Average Joe in average job.

At 40 he gets drunk, DWI, 2 years in the big house.

He works another 20 years.

62 he collect social security.

 

He will always be the guy that did 2 years for the DWI.

 

Brilliant Dr, scientist, educator, same 20 years, same DWI, same jail time.

Continues brilliant career another 20 years.

62 he collects SS.

 

He will be always remember as the Dr, scientist, educator that was the guy that had his career interrupted with the DWI.

 

Some things are not forgotten.

 

Even things that are forgiven are not forgotten.

 

Funny, see...I don;t see my H as "they guy who did porn and chatted with men"

 

or "the guy who spent thousands of dollars on gaming"

 

or

 

"the guy who lost numerous jobs."

 

Yeah, I know all those things happened, but I do not CHOOSE to define him that way and boil him down to just those things.

 

We CHOOSE how we choose to see people.

[Scott Thomas]

Funny, see...I don;t see my H as "they guy who did porn and chatted with men"

 

or "the guy who spent thousands of dollars on gaming"

 

or

 

"the guy who lost numerous jobs."

 

Yeah, I know all those things happened, but I do not CHOOSE to define him that way and boil him down to just those things.

 

We CHOOSE how we choose to see people.

 

* 70-90 percent of all men watch porn.

* A significant portion of the male population devoted time gaming. In the past, they went on hunting trips and participated in wars. Gaming is the new 'hobby' among men these days.

* In the current economic environment, cut-throat and brutal as it is, even a good employee may lose his/her job. Walt Disney, Steve Jobs, Sylvester Stallone, all lost their jobs at one point or another.

* Chatting with men-I believe you're referring to online adult chat groups. Well, whatever makes him happy, not really my cup of tea but who am I to decide what his sexual preferences are.

 

Watching porn, chatting with men, playing games and losing a job are very different from standing before God and vowing to be a faithful partner, in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, and in joy as well as in sorrow.

 

Watching porn, chatting with men, playing games and losing a job are very different from promising to love someone unconditionally, to support their in their goals, to honour and respect them, to laugh with them and cry with them, and to cherish them for as long as they both shall live.

 

Watching porn, chatting with men, playing games and losing a job are very different from driving under the influence of alcohol and hitting someone, avoiding taxes, robbing a store, killing someone or cheating on the one person who loved you and thought you had his/her back.

[Sofie2013]

Sorry for being MIA but I have good reason believe.

 

I don’t have too much time I’m waiting for hubby to become back. So I’m going to make this quick last night talk went very well at first I did all the talking he didn’t say anything like before it seemed like he didn’t care. After I was finished we both went to bed he went to the guest room he’s been sleeping there for past few weeks. After a few minutes he comes into my room. This time he wanted to know and asked a few questions (I give more detail tomorrow). We stared to talk some more and one thing lead to another and we did have sex and we had all night and all day to day and I hope we will go at again.

 

So right sofie is very happy girl I just wanted to let you guys know that everything went well.

[lindsay1990]

Awwww, so excited and happy for you Sofie. Hope it continues to improve!

[BetrayedH]

Glad to hear it. Truly. I'm glad something positive has come to bear.

 

That said, Coolit is right to caution you about reading too much into HB. The reading I've done says it's not a good indicator one way or another regarding reconciliation. The typical advice is to enjoy is while it lasts. The veterans here will tell you it's powerful stuff. But I have a feeling you understand that part just fine.

 

In your case, I'd call it improvement. I think your best goal at this point is continuous improvement. Mostly, I'm glad you got something to boost a sense of hope. Congrats.

[Jonah]

Hey Sofie,

 

remember... sometimes steps forward and sometimes steps back. Just don't go too disheartened by dark clouds... they go by too.

 

Happy to read of your breakthrough. We are rooting for you!

 

Jonah

[BetrayedH]

That is absolutely crazy. So cheating wife gets what she wants yet again. [And without so much pain & suffering, from what I can tell.] I'm starting to think these H who are so okay with this kinda stuff deserve to be cheated. It is really puzzling ... [i guess he will have to hope you won't feel the way you did, during the affair, down the road.]

 

Her husband filed for divorce, told her he was moving out next week, exposed the affair at work (which resulted in her suspension) and you would call that without much pain and suffering? Rest assured, if she's given the chance at reconciliation (which isn't remotely guaranteed), she has years of hard work ahead of her.

 

As for the BH, there is no winning for him. There are just degrees of losing. Your "deserve to be cheated" line is utter crap. It's entirely his right to choose to keep his unfaithful wife instead of suffering a divorce. As for having sex with his wife, she is his wife and they are allowed to have sex. The guy's life has been up-ended. How about we cut him a break?

[lindsay1990]

That is absolutely crazy. So cheating wife gets what she wants yet again. [And without so much pain & suffering, from what I can tell.] I'm starting to think these H who are so okay with this kinda stuff deserve to be cheated. It is really puzzling ... [i guess he will have to hope you won't feel the way you did, during the affair, down the road.]

 

If by 'what she wanted' you mean her husband finally engaged her in any way besides small talk then yes, maybe she got what she wanted.

 

We have to remember that these are real PEOPLE we are talking about. Real people in a real house somewhere in a real town with real kids and a real life. These are a man and a woman that at some point felt so in love that decided to marry and spend the rest of their lives together. I'm sure neither Sofie or her husband went on dates, got engaged, planned a wedding, got married, went on honeymoon thinking they would be one of the couples that face an affair, but life happened to their marriage as it happens to many relationships that deteriorate. Coupled with Sofie's sh*t decisions, they are in this horrible position now. Nontheless, they are in this together.

 

These are people who care about each other, Sofie's husband is not an idiot and Sofie is not a perfect criminal should they someday reconcile. She will not be 'getting away' with anything. Whatever the case and the outcome they are a couple that care about each other, and if you think that hurting or being hurt automatically voids the caring then you probably have never, to your own horror and disappontment, hurt (brutally or not) someone you loved. I know I have.

 

We are human and none of us can be certain we will be spared these incredibly difficult circumstances, either perpetrator or perpetra-tee - both are victims. At the end of the day enough damage is done, both a husband and a wife, a mom and a dad, have lost their innocence and everything else here. Nobody marries expecting to divorce and if these people find it in themselves to fight for their marriage, for THEIR LOVE and for their family, and if they can TRULY and positively recover from this, as a society we should support them as best we can. We all gain to benefit from a world and from families where there is understanding, forgiveness and growth away from the desvastating hurt. Even if it was the hard(est) way.

 

Cynicism (and much less judgement) benefit no one. Not individuals and not society. Empathy and compassion, on the other hand, will help preserve us all.

 

I say, good luck to Sofie and her husband.

Edited October 6, 2013 by lindsay1990

[aliveagain]

Sorry for being MIA but I have good reason believe.

 

I don’t have too much time I’m waiting for hubby to become back. So I’m going to make this quick last night talk went very well at first I did all the talking he didn’t say anything like before it seemed like he didn’t care. After I was finished we both went to bed he went to the guest room he’s been sleeping there for past few weeks. After a few minutes he comes into my room. This time he wanted to know and asked a few questions (I give more detail tomorrow). We stared to talk some more and one thing lead to another and we did have sex and we had all night and all day to day and I hope we will go at again.

 

So right sofie is very happy girl I just wanted to let you guys know that everything went well.

 

 

Amazing, you go girl, it sounds just so right. Great, great news. Let him lead and agree to everything, let him retake his territory.

[lindsay1990]

Yep. That is exactly what I am saying. Filing divorce does not matter. Was moving doesn't mean he moved out. Exposed affair? Oh, so bad huh? So that is it? That was the pain? Wow. Too much, I wanna cry.

 

How would it be better in any way if 'suffered' more? Who would gain what, exactly? In my inexperience I can say that there is no greater suffering than virtually single-handedly blaming yourself for destroying your relationship, and this is what this woman has experienced. It's one thing to make some of the mistakes, but knowing you are the one to take it to the point of no return is downright haunting. She cannot know her husbands pain, not even close, but it is easier to forgive another than to forgive yourself.

 

Yes, not everyone is capable of redemption, but telling a person that they don't even deserve a chance at it (regardless of forgiveness or recon) seems way more destructive. And now adding this apparent element of vindictiveness (as if she should suffer a certain amount before given a chance) just... seems bloodthirsty. I mean, seriously, these people and THIS MARRIAGE are broken and hurting enough.

Edited October 6, 2013 by lindsay1990

[lindsay1990]

And no I don't have a personal experience with cheating - thank God - [though I have views on it] so this is not a bitter post because of that.

 

Then I hope you are never faced with feeling that the person you love the most, is the person destroying you and the disbelief/uprooting of your reality that this carries with it.

 

I don't have experience with cheating either, fwiw. But I do in hurting and being hurt, which bred empathy in me.

[atreides]

How would it be better in any way if 'suffered' more? Who would gain what, exactly? In my inexperience I can say that there is no greater suffering than virtually single-handedly blaming yourself for destroying your relationship, and this is what this woman has experienced. It's one thing to make some of the mistakes, but knowing you are the one to take it to the point of no return is downright haunting. She cannot know her husbands pain, not even close, but it is easier to forgive another than to forgive yourself.

 

Yes, not everyone is capable of redemption, but telling a person that they don't even deserve a chance at it (regardless of forgiveness or recon) seems way more destructive. And now adding this apparent element of vindictiveness (as if she should suffer a certain amount before given a chance) just... seems bloodthirsty. I mean, seriously, these people and THIS MARRIAGE are broken and hurting enough.

 

I understand a bit of 912's statement of false affinity, but to bring more context, there have been two trends of thought here, those that believe Sophie is sincere and those that don't and simply believe she is in it for the stability and the kids. If one believes in the latter it would then suggest that it is not what this woman has experienced.

Of course if one believes the former than the opposite is true. i have struggled back and forth myself with this.

There are those that have a gauntlet of things that every cheater should go through. Thus your statement of seems way more destructive holds true.

The way i see it, it is their lives, we were simply invited in to listen and give our thoughts. Truly in the end if she is not sincere, the marriage will eventually fail and she may "get what is supposed to come to her" or she is sincere and they are able to rebuild what they had before and perhaps make it even better.

I wish them luck.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Sorry for being MIA but I have good reason believe.

 

I don’t have too much time I’m waiting for hubby to become back. So I’m going to make this quick last night talk went very well at first I did all the talking he didn’t say anything like before it seemed like he didn’t care. After I was finished we both went to bed he went to the guest room he’s been sleeping there for past few weeks. After a few minutes he comes into my room. This time he wanted to know and asked a few questions (I give more detail tomorrow). We stared to talk some more and one thing lead to another and we did have sex and we had all night and all day to day and I hope we will go at again.

 

So right sofie is very happy girl I just wanted to let you guys know that everything went well.

 

 

Truly happy that you both found another bridge.

[lindsay1990]

First of all, cheating/having an affair is not a "mistake." Let's get that out of the way. It is a conscious decision you do, based on whatever you were thinking at the time [and in this case it wasn't one night thing either, let's point that out for everyone - so 'several mistakes' even if you wanna spin it that way]. And with every action there are and should be consequences. Am I wrong? I am not saying she should have suffered more, I am saying I am surprised this was so easy [from the look of it] without serious consequences [usually suffering/remorse/some period of break/reflection/whatever.etc.] other than job embarrassment.

 

Oh, "there is no greater suffering than virtually single-handedly blaming yourself for destroying your relationship." Really? So now she the victim? And suffering more than the H who got cheated on and have to live with this for the rest of his life? Wow. Great. Now we established we have a series differences of opinion here [And I would feel the same way about W if H was the cheater] and there is no way we are seeing eye-to-eye on this. Which is fine. Let's hope you can have this much compassion and 'forgive' your spouse if you ever find yourself in a cheated on situation. [That is my way of saying, you are seeing this from only one side.]

 

 

Yeah, maybe I am. Because I don't think she hasn't suffered at all and don't see the purpose of her suffering more rather than pure spite.

 

And let's hope that I ever find myself in that position, I will have the compassion for whatever it is needed. But here, our compassion is towards somebody that asks for a chance. Not towards forgiving our own cheating spouse.

 

Maybe I won't know until it happens. But I'd rather be an idealist-who-has-never-been-tested than a cynic-who-has-never-been-tested.

 

I also hope you never find yourself on either side an affair

 

Moving on......

Edited October 6, 2013 by lindsay1990

[lindsay1990]

This maybe an extreme example but with your logic, we shouldn't have prisons at all. No need for suffering, it doesn't help anyone right? If you commit a crime, we just have some compassion for you and let you go.

 

I don't know what is going on with this couple's life but I have a strange gut feeling, if he was the one cheating/having an affair [where she basically catches him in bed with a woman, in another state hotel] the transition back would not have been this easy. Just a feeling.

 

 

Prisions are not just for punishment. That would be a dungeon or the coal mines. Their MAIN stated purpose in the modern, western world is rehabilitation. And that is why most people go in for a certain time, because it is presumed that people can change and go back to bring productive, law-abiding citizens.

[petee]

Sophie, I am really happy for you. PLease remember that is going to be a bumpy road and there will be times when it looks so good that you find yourself back at square one again, this is just the human way. He can forget the hurt for periods but it will swell up at times and the pressure will release...... expect these set backs and half the battle is won.

There is at least one spiteful and venomous poster on very recent threads, personally I don't read their rubbish and would advise you to identify their thread name and just skip it.

Keep at it Sophie, I get the feeling you are a good kind loving person that failed once. Everybody gets a chance so please keep at it as I have a feeling youwill get through this a little quicker than you think.

Go for it, nothing ventured nothing gained.

[aliveagain]

As a betrayed spouse I chose to leave infidelity by removing the cancer that caused it from my life, not because I am a heartless POS but because the lying never ceased. Anytime I see hope for the family I choose family but only if true remorse is present. Now that my children are grown and on their own I choose zero tolerance for infidelity, my ex was never remorseful so she never got the gift of reconciliation. Sophie has children and is very remorseful, I vote for a second chance if she can prove to her betrayed husband she is willing to do the work necessary to fix what is broken in her. Anyone reading my posts know I am hard on wayward's, specially those that still have their heads up their ass. I have had points removed from me on this very thread, my response's have been removed probably because some wayward spouse complained about my posting. Sophie, your doing the right things to show your remorse, your infidelity was wrong, you never came clean until after you were caught and you left your husband hanging after discovery but your recent actions are believable. It is never too late to change so don't let fear or your pride get in the way of doing what is necessary to keep your family together. Go for it.

[Scott Thomas]

9122013 does have a point; I doubt the remorse/humiliation/distress Sophie is feeling can be compared to the emotions her husband felt when he found out she cheated.

 

Lindsay, you're confusing punishment as a consequence of our actions with retribution as the outcome of one person's desire for revenge. Did Sophie 'deserve' everything her husband did she he discovered her affair? Most people (and I) would support his calculated, yet effective decisions. These decisions showed Sophie that she could lose everything she ever loved (and this would be entirely her fault).

 

When my wife had her fling, I left her immediately (we reconciled after 5 years years). That does not imply that everyone should follow my path. If her husband decided to reconcile, 9122013 would do well to remember that it is his personal decision. Unless Sophie cheats again, I would respect her husband's decision provided that Sophie spends the next 2-5 years (and continues this) working on her marriage and supporting her husband. This will be easy for Sophie since she is the WW and her husband is the BH. If Sophie's husband divorces her or runs away with another woman-well, can you really blame him?

 

Sophie came her to share her story. Some posters believe she is genuinely remorseful-others think that she is afraid of losing her home and financial support and is therefore trying to reconcile with her husband. As we have no way of verifying her situation, or her husband's emotions for that matter, we should refrain from passing a hard, absolute judgement.

[Cpt]

I have been following your story from the get go Sophie, and I am glad things are turning around for you. I am certain that any legal actions your husband had planned of using adultery against you were thrown out the window when he decided to have sex with you. To my understanding, if a BS has sex with the WS after dday, then the court assumes the BS has forgiven the WS, therefore the BS cannot use adultery against the WS in the court anymore. He should be aware of this, so thats another good sign things are moving forward. If he was really serious about the divorce and making sure things go in his favour, he wouldn't have been willing to lose his "ammo" to be intimate with you.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Most workplace affairs actually start due to boundary crossing. Most actually never imagined an affair, and would have sworn like many here that affairs are disgusting and people involved in them are evil...just a day before they crossed the first line.

 

Those affairs have a better chance of not occurring again as the WS learns how to protect themselves from the slippery slope better. Eyes.Wide.Open.At.All.Times.