Christian: Definition

[dyermaker]

bluetuesday--They aren't worth it.

 

Blockhead will continue to twist words for personal amusement, and Moose will continue to celebrate ignorance as a healthy alternative to effort.

 

Most people assured of their own salvation that I've known have been huge pricks--If I'm destined for hell, I'll welcome the company.

[BlockHead]

bluetuesday

Why did Jesus come if salvation can be attained through the law?

bluetuesday

god commands us to love because he desires his kingdom on earth NOW. we love not to get the reward of eternal life when we die, but to enjoy eternal life NOW. we fulfil his command to love because we desire nothing more than to give god what he wants NOW. our father is reaching out his hands to us, we take hold of his hands when we love our neighbour.

We are invited, not commanded. God doesn’t demand anything from us.

I think socialism is detrimental to the human spirit.

 

I’ve seen a lot of mumbo jumbo and appeals to ignorance in this thread.

I don’t think Jesus appealed to anybody’s ignorance.

dyermaker

Blockhead will continue to twist words for personal amusement, and Moose will continue to celebrate ignorance as a healthy alternative to effort.

Here is bluetuesday’s wise man. Denigrating others just comes naturally to some people.

 

dyermaker

What have you contributed to this thread? More attitude? I haven't gotten many answers from you.

You spent much of your time swinging at a straw men caricature. I can’t say I’m impressed.

[dyermaker]

Blockhead--what is it you want from me? I mean, specifically, of course.

 

You spend plenty of time denigrating me, you do so at every oppurtunity you can find (and some you simply create)--There is no need to pretend I somehow victimize you.

 

Moose asked for opinions. You disagree with mine, which is that a faith without action is meaningless in terms of calling oneself a Christian. However, Moose agrees with you. Congrats, it looks like you have a new friend. Consider him a tag-team buddy in terms of denigrating my opinions in the future.

[Moose]

you don't know who i am, moose. please don't judge me.

 

Just because I said it doesn't look like you take salvation seriously doesn't mean I'm judging you. I said that because it's a serious subject, one that shouldn't be gambled upon like you suggested me to do.

 

i don't assume there is only one right answer. you appear to do just that. be careful moose. allow that god knows more than you do.

 

That's fine for you, for me, I know of only one answer, that's all I know, that's all I care to know, that's all that was given to me by the Scriptures. Period. I never placed a limit on God, where do you get that? Just because I chose to believe there is only one answer......that doesn't place a limit on the knowledge of God......like Dyerboy said, I'm ignorant......and:

 

Moose will continue to celebrate ignorance as a healthy alternative to effort.

 

Listen Dyer, I'm not saying this because of your age, it has nothing to do with it. Your insults are why I hope you tame your tongue in your every day real world.....and why I'm glad I don't know you in real life......(I'd have to kick your arse before we could ever be friends.)

 

But here's good news for you:

 

wonderful. it needs a shake up. god bless dyer for his wisdom.

 

At least you have one fan.

 

this is the most deplorable, badly informed comment i have ever heard you make, moose. you are accusing a devout christian of deliberately trying to mislead and of false preaching.

 

Again, I'm stating an opinion and you accuse me of judging? Get over it!

 

Everybody just needs to understand one thing here, and it always comes done to this.....I have my beliefs, and you have yours.....I started this thread for one reason, to see how many of you believe the same as I, and there are several......it doesn't mean that I'm judging anybody else on how they define their Christianity, I'm not saying that my beliefs should be the only one either. I am saying that, IT'S THE ONLY ONE FOR ME! That's it....got it?

 

Of course your going to be mad and call me ignorant and accuse me of being a judge when I hold my religion so closley to my heart. I expect it as a matter of fact. I would be upset and I do get upset when others try to tell me that their faith is above mine, or is the only correct faith. The question of which religion is the correct religion will be argued until the end of time.

 

Here's my point, it's my belief, and my opinion, and I consider it a fact that: a CHRISTian, believes in Christ as the one and only saviour, the only way to the Father......period.

[bluetuesday]

Originally posted by Moose

The question of which religion is the correct religion will be argued until the end of time.

 

as long as people continue to think like you, that they are right and everyone else is automatically wrong, religion will continue to be more about arguments, hatred, bigotry and arrogance than it is about god. well done. you're keeping up a very long tradition paved with good intentions.

 

dyer, i expect i'll see you in hell. it'll be a privilege.

[Moose]

AND, it's folk like you that can't accept that others have their own personal beliefs and they chose to hold true to them. Get over it. Believe what you like, and I'll believe what I like....there will never be a one world religion until Christ comes for His Church.....then we'll all know who's right and who's wrong won't we?

 

Just because I believe that if you and Dyer accept Christ as your personal Saviour, you won't go to hell, doesn't mean that you two can't believe that you can get to heaven another way..........I wish you good luck at it.

[EnigmaXOXO]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn1.htm

[Moose]

OUTSTANDING LINK!!!

Thanks Enigma!

[bluetuesday]

....there will never be a one world religion until Christ comes for His Church.....then we'll all know who's right and who's wrong won't we?

and the meek will inherit the earth.

 

moose, i actually believe you mean no harm. and i believe you are right. i also believe i am right. but you are the only one of us who believes we cannot both be right. or that being right matters.

[Moose]

Originally posted by bluetuesday

and the meek will inherit the earth.

 

moose, i actually believe you mean no harm. and i believe you are right. i also believe i am right. but you are the only one of us who believes we cannot both be right. or that being right matters.

 

Your comment reminds me of a comedian I heard on the radio. He was imitating how Scriptures could of been spoken in the sarcastic sense, like, "Yeah, and the meek shall inherit the Earth", real sarcastic like......your rolling eyes brought that into my mind. By the way, Yes, the meek shall inherit the Earth exactly the way Jesus described it.

 

Of course I don't mean any harm, I never do. And thanks for believing I'm right. And I'm glad you believe you're right. But I can't say that we're both right, and of course I think it matters a great deal who is and who isn't. Does it matter what I think? Yes, but I cover that in my prayers daily. Does it matter to you what I think? I hope not because it shouldn't. Keep on keepin' on if that's the car you like to drive........

[bluetuesday]

Originally posted by Moose

Does it matter to you what I think? I hope not because it shouldn't.

 

moose, it actually matters a great deal to me. i was talking to another shacker about you off this site just this past weekend, saying that i feel responsible for not explaining myself properly and for the times when i let my frustration spill out into my posts.

 

i pray about what to say to you. what i have posted, the good bits, may be an answer to those prayers or it may be what god has led me to realise over the course of my christian life or it may be posturing. i don't know. i just know it matters to me that i present god to the world in the most informed way i can. i speak from the heart and i feel very passionately about it. nothing in this world moves me more. my devotion to god is the bedrock of my life.

 

when others do not understand my meaning i feel responsible. i feel that i have failed. my god is a god of total loving acceptance. i know exactly where you are coming from in your posts moose, for many years i felt exactly the same. but i feel that god opened my eyes to the infinite possibility of his love and grace and forgiveness and what he taught me excludes the sense of elitism and self-righteousness i feel is endemic within many christian churches. this is not an accusation. we are all at different points along the path. i am sure that where you are right now is where god wants you to be, needs you to be for the next lesson he has planned for you.

 

if there is a right and wrong, and if i am wrong, i hope that i will look back and feel that i was wrong for the right reasons. that my philosophy included perhaps more love, more forgiveness, more understanding than it should, but that in preaching it i gave god the benefit of the doubt to be infinitely more than i could ever imagine. if i am wrong, i allowed god total free reign to save the world, believers and non-believers, those who love and those who hate, because i believe his love and forgiveness and compassion and grace is beyond my scope to imagine.

 

the god who turns away unsaved sinners from heaven's gate may exist, but to me god is the most perfect, faithful, forgiving, compassionate, graceful, loving being that can be imagined. this god looks upon the most hopeless of his children, those who have scorned him and turned away from him and lied about him and used him and he STILL wants them home. he is the god of infinite chances, of unending possibility and of all-consuming love. there is no darkness in him at all. all are welcome, all. ALL moose.

 

if i could create the perfect god, this would be the god i would create. and since we know god is greater than anything we can ever imagine, i imagine that my god, who flings open his arms to the most underserving wretch in the kingdom, is a pale imitation of the glorious truth.

 

if i am right, you and i will meet in that glory. that is my hope and my faith and my strength. that all are welcome. and through jesus christ all are saved. you may not believe what i believe, moose, but i would rather be wrong and give god the benefit of the doubt than to be preach a message that could make one solitary soul, one child of god, feel excluded from his father's house.

 

peace be with you.

[ConfusedInOC]

"No one comes to the father but through me." - Jesus.

 

You become a Christian by accepting Christ into your life.

[HokeyReligions]

Jesus! No wonder I gave up Christianity!

 

If anyone ever asks me why again, I'll just show them this thread!

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions

Jesus! No wonder I gave up Christianity!

 

If anyone ever asks me why again, I'll just show them this thread!

 

I used to be agnostic.

I am a Christian now.

 

I never chastised those who were relgious before me and I don't chastise those who aren't now. A relationship with God is something I believe to be personal and nothing that needs to be flaunted or taunted.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Bluetuesday writes: the god who turns away unsaved sinners from heaven's gate may exist, but to me god is the most perfect, faithful, forgiving, compassionate, graceful, loving being that can be imagined.

 

He MUST be, Blue! After all…the jeaulous, vengeful, prejudice G-d depicted in scripture would not allow our pathetic "sin filled" human existence to continue otherwise. He'd have wiped the slate clean and reinvented a more perfect world where we would all think and act the same.

 

I hesitate to even respond to these religious debates because it raises the hair on the back of my neck to see people bickering over G-d. I can not think of one war, one human atrocity not fueled by one's extremist religious views. How many more will be murdered in His name? How much hatred and prejudice will be spread because of religious intolerance?

 

Only human beings are so ignorant and petty.

 

Like BT, if I am to face my maker in the end I will do so without shame simply because I have led a good life. And if the pedophile priest beside me is allowed in simply because he has accepted Christ as his personal savior…while Gandhi and other good non-Christian folk are turned away… then it is an eternity I'd prefer not to enter. I'll gladly take the hand of that condemned unbaptised child beside me and sacrifice myself to the fires of hell. I'd consider myself in good company.

 

BTW…I'm a Roman Catholic. But I would never be so smug that I would take for granted that my sins and atrocities towards my fellow human would be forgiven; and my soul saved, simply because I am a believer. Rather than gamble on promises, I'd prefer to cover my ars by living a life which does not accumulate guilt or regret that requires divine 'forgivness.'

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by EnigmaXOXO

He MUST be, Blue! After all…the jeaulous, vengeful, prejudice G-d depicted in scripture would not allow our pathetic "sin filled" human existence to continue otherwise. He'd have wiped the slate clean and reinvented a more perfect world where we would all think and act the same.

 

I hesitate to even respond to these religious debates because it raises the hair on the back of my neck to see people bickering over G-d. I can not think of one war, one human atrocity not fueled by one's extremist religious views. How many more will be murdered in His name? How much hatred and prejudice will be spread because of religious intolerance?

 

Only human beings are so ignorant and petty.

 

Like BT, if I am to face my maker in the end I will do so without shame simply because I have led a good life. And if the pedophile priest beside me is allowed in simply because he has accepted Christ as his personal savior…while Gandhi and other good non-Christian folk are turned away… then it is an eternity I'd prefer not to enter. I'll gladly take the hand of that condemned unbaptised child beside me and sacrifice myself to the fires of hell. I'd consider myself in good company.

 

BTW…I'm a Roman Catholic. But I would never be so smug that I would take for granted that my sins and atrocities towards my fellow human would be forgiven; and my soul saved, simply because I am a believer. Rather than gamble on promises, I'd prefer to cover my ars by living a life which does not accumulate guilt or regret that requires divine 'forgivness.'

 

People who follow religion the way it's written do not start wars and create atrocities. It's those that take their OWN view of religion that causes it. It's called EXTREMISM and is true for more than just religion.

 

You can view the world the way you wish.

 

If you're right and I am wrong, no harm - no foul.

But if I'm right and you're wrong, well - I can only pray for you.

 

Do what you must, but to generalize all religions into a mass murdering order is incorrect. Extremism is to blame, not religion or God.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Do what you must, but to generalize all religions into a mass murdering order is incorrect.

 

Huh?

[Moose]

Thanks BT for that post, it touched me.

 

moose, it actually matters a great deal to me. i was talking to another shacker about you off this site just this past weekend, saying that i feel responsible for not explaining myself properly and for the times when i let my frustration spill out into my posts.

 

We're all guilty of that, really. I don't remember which post your talking about, but I never held any bad thoughts or think less of you for it. I don't do that with anyone. After all, when it's all said and done, it's not us that we need to keep happy, is it?

 

i pray about what to say to you. what i have posted, the good bits, may be an answer to those prayers or it may be what god has led me to realise over the course of my christian life or it may be posturing. i don't know. i just know it matters to me that i present god to the world in the most informed way i can. i speak from the heart and i feel very passionately about it. nothing in this world moves me more. my devotion to god is the bedrock of my life.

 

What you wrote here, ever single, solitary word, describes me to a tee......as if I wrote it to you.

 

when others do not understand my meaning i feel responsible. i feel that i have failed.

 

You shouldn't take it so personally. No matter how articulate, (Spelling?), we try to be, one can't really convey exactly what they mean to someone else. Besides:

my god is a god of total loving acceptance.

 

From there you just explained your feelings and why you feel the way you feel. I'm pretty sure I've got a good idea now of where you're coming from. And most of what you said, I agree with. I even agree with what you wrote here:

 

he is the god of infinite chances, of unending possibility and of all-consuming love. there is no darkness in him at all. all are welcome, all. ALL moose.

 

I would've included that all are welcome through Jesus. I would've also added to the message that the only way to go through Jesus is to believe in Him. That you believe the work He did on the cross, dying for our sins and paying our sin debt so we can be accepted by God.

 

and through jesus christ all are saved.

 

This statement is true as long as the, "all", in this sentence are only those who know Him, and accepted Him as their personal Saviour. If that's what you meant, then we're on the same page......if not, then there is a disagreement, and that's all that it is.

 

Like BT, if I am to face my maker in the end I will do so without shame simply because I have led a good life.

 

And that's ok for you two. For me though, I believe you WILL face your maker, there is no, "IF I am to face my maker", about it. I also believe that I can't get into heaven by my own perfect life, or being a great person. Because of the mistakes I made, the sins I've sinned both the ones that I know of, and the ones I don't, the fact that I can't ever be perfect enough to face my God......I needed help. Only through Jesus' sacrifice can I enter. IF you believe you can get there any other way, then great for you.....I don't look at you any differently, I don't place myself above you or any one else, it's a matter of what I prefer to believe against what you prefer to believe.

[dyermaker]

Your insults are why I hope you tame your tongue in your every day real world

You're equally insulting, over and over. You do the best you can to hide your insults. They're still pretty lucid though.

 

Sometimes I make mistakes, and hurt people who don't deserve it. I regret that. I do not regret anything I've ever said to you, because I think you would have left the kitchen a long time ago if you couldn't stand the heat. I think you get off on insulting my faith and devotion.

 

Furthermore, I don't consider saying that you "embrace ignorance" to be insulting. In discussion after discussion, you've admitted to being "lazy" and not caring about studying things--which I take to mean that you embrace ignorance. I think it's blunt, but not insulting--I wouldn't waste my time insulting you.

.....and why I'm glad I don't know you in real life......

Of all the personalities on this forum, I would be most honored to meet you. You're stimulating without being boring, and you're compassionate without being kind. I imagine I'd get a kick out of conversing with you in real life, and I'm bummed I couldn't make it to Southern California.

 

Either way, You're in my prayers whether you want to be there or not. I'm guilty of wishing you were a bit like me, but that's a personal prejudice--You know I'm not a fan of the fundamentalists.

(I'd have to kick your arse before we could ever be friends.)

Well, that's very Christian of you. I suppose you could pump my ass full of rock salt with your constitutionally-protected weapon, or bludgeon me with your huge penis.

 

Moose, when you ask for religious opinions in the future, I will not make the mistake of thinking you are sincere. I thought you wanted to know what we considered 'Christian' to mean; instead, I've realized you just wanted to clarify your own belief.

[kit4kat]

Wow... this is one intense thread!!! But, a good one at that

 

Personally, I think that a "Christian" is a follower of Christ. Its more of a personal relationship than a religion. It involves acknowledging that Jesus is the Christ, that he died for people like you and me, and accepting him as your personal Lord and Savior. Its as simple as that. Like others have said, eternal life is a gift-- a free gift!! How could you not take it? For it is by grace we have been saved through faith-- nothing is sweeter than that! But, as I see, it has been debated back and forth about works. As far as I'm concerned, we're saved by our belief in Jesus, we're defined by our love for others and deeds. As one poster said earlier, faith without works is a dead faith-- I concur.

 

On a more personal note, I have seen people "come to know" Jesus as their Lord, but then turn their backs on Christianity. These people claim to be Christian, but do not walk with the Lord. Hypocricy thrives from this, and many will not come to faith because of these people. There are a lot of people I know who are good people, help everyone out when needed and love others unconditionally, but have not accepted Jesus as their Savior. They break my heart, think of the things they could be doing for the Lord! With a heart of worship! That would bring a smile to the face of God-- I read somewhere once that a goal in our life should be to strive for the smile of God.

 

Its good to see other believing brothers and sisters on this site, and I just found it a few days ago too!!!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by kit4kat

How could you not take it? For it is by grace we have been saved through faith-- nothing is sweeter than that!

It makes sense to you, because you've "taken" it--But you have to realize that often, Christianity is not presented in the most appealing package.

 

Savior or Fraud, Jesus needs better P.R.

There are a lot of people I know who are good people, help everyone out when needed and love others unconditionally, but have not accepted Jesus as their Savior. They break my heart, think of the things they could be doing for the Lord! With a heart of worship! That would bring a smile to the face of God-- I read somewhere once that a goal in our life should be to strive for the smile of God.

You break my heart.

 

Who are you to say that they are not doing the Lord's will?

 

Must one wear a cross necklace and listen to crappy music to have a heart of worship?

 

The people who "help everyone out when needed and love others unconditionally" are bringing the Kingdom of God from the abstract to reality, they're as Christian as it gets--They're too busy MAKING Christ real to realize Christ---and I'll take a thousand of them before a Jerry Falwell or a G.W. Bush.

[kit4kat]

You break my heart.

 

Who are you to say that they are not doing the Lord's will?

 

Must one wear a cross necklace and listen to crappy music to have a heart of worship?

 

Don't let me break your heart! These are just my beliefs. I stand strong beside them, and they have never let me down. I've had one hell of a life-- God was the only thing that was solid and strong, the only thing that brought me through it, and still continues too! Dyer, I've read all your posts on this thread, your beliefs are strong as well. I'm going to be keeping you in my prayers-- not because your beliefs differ, but because I want to-- so I will be praying for you every time God brings you to mind.

 

Though these people who reach out to others, volunteer, and give love may be being used by God, if they're not in communication with God, how will they know what his will is?

 

My boss doesn't believe in God anymore, she's one of the people who left the church when she found the secular world more enticing. She wears a cross necklace, but doesn't worship God. I don't wear a cross, and my music is fun and upbeat -- I rather enjoy it-- but a heart of worship, to me, is doing it all for the glory of God. Whether it be sitting in a dentist chair getting a root canal done, having sex with your spouse, praising God through music, or simply sitting in peace-- all can be done for his glory.

[dyermaker]

I can't say how "these people who reach out to others, volunteer, and give love" know what God's will is.

 

I can only say they must be doing something right.

 

Also, a good place to find definitions for words is the Dictionary.

 

Christian

 

adj.

 

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.

3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.

4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.

5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

 

 

n.

 

1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

Notice how not all of those definitions involve professing a belief in Christ.

 

My favorite would have to be "One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus", which is often carried out by the heathens--and convieniently has nothing to do with saying "Look at me, I believe in Jesus".

[kit4kat]

Yes Dyer, all those definitions are that of a Christian. Though, I would have to say that showing loving concern for others and humanity is very broad. Anyone can do that! So, that automatically makes them a Christian? If that was true then this world we be a better place-- most everyone, unless driven by pure selfishness, shows loving concern for others.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by kit4kat

Though, I would have to say that showing loving concern for others and humanity is very broad. Anyone can do that!

Why does that upset you?

 

It seems most people who call themselves Christians are afraid that other people could too "easily" become Christians as well. You say 'Anyone can do that!'--as if that's a bad thing. Don't you want 'anyone' to be part of your club?

So, that automatically makes them a Christian?

Well, what, should there be a membership fee? I don't get what you're saying. Which world would you rather live in:

 

6 Billion People who accept Christ as their Savior

6 Billion People who show loving concern for others

 

I'd take the latter, hands down.

If that was true then this world we be a better place-- most everyone, unless driven by pure selfishness, shows loving concern for others.

Wow, I disagree. I think loving concern for others is extremely rare.