Christian: Definition

[Moose]

I think you get off on insulting my faith and devotion.

 

No I don't. I just like to express my views because I think those that share my faith aren't getting a fair shake from you, if that makes sense. I feel for you actually. You've been witness towards what extreme Christianity can do to cohearse someone away from accepting Christ as their Saviour. It's really sad. There are millions who feel the way you do and that's fine with me, I don't care to drag you, or anyone else in the mud at all.

 

Furthermore, I don't consider saying that you "embrace ignorance" to be insulting. In discussion after discussion, you've admitted to being "lazy" and not caring about studying things--which I take to mean that you embrace ignorance. I think it's blunt, but not insulting--I wouldn't waste my time insulting you.

 

It's not so much that I don't want to study the Scriptures more, I do. I attend my Sunday School every week. I have years and years of walking this life reading and learning what the Scriptures say to me specifically. All that I've learned and gathered through those years convinced me that I don't care to study archeology or the theories of evolution or try to explain in a scientific way how it was possible for every miracle performed in the Bible. I choose to stay the course I'm on now.

 

Of all the personalities on this forum, I would be most honored to meet you. You're stimulating without being boring, and you're compassionate without being kind. I imagine I'd get a kick out of conversing with you in real life, and I'm bummed I couldn't make it to Southern California.

 

Well, thanks. I think. You must be thinking about my trip to Cali. in Feb. Actually, I'm closer to where your at than you think. I'm in the most southern part of Missouri, and your in Texas aren't you?

 

Well, that's very Christian of you. I suppose you could pump my ass full of rock salt with your constitutionally-protected weapon, or bludgeon me with your huge penis.

 

Great burn there Dyer! Excellent! Anyway, "I'll have to kick your a$$ before we're friends", is more of an expression around here than an actual plan to do so. I thought your come back was hilarous!!

 

Moose, when you ask for religious opinions in the future, I will not make the mistake of thinking you are sincere. I thought you wanted to know what we considered 'Christian' to mean; instead, I've realized you just wanted to clarify your own belief.

 

I really didn't intend for you to think that's what I was up to, but if you think that was the plan, fine. I don't think I need any clarification about my belief, I know everything I need to know....thanks.

 

Who are you to say that they are not doing the Lord's will?

 

Must one wear a cross necklace and listen to crappy music to have a heart of worship?

 

You said you make pizzas for a living, right? Are you required to wear a uniform, bib, hat, anything with the companies logo on it? Have you ever? You do have a boss correct? When someone asks where you work at, you do say, "__________ Pizza", don't you?

 

Spreading the Lord's message is just like any other job. You have to realize first that He's the boss. If you don't place Him as your boss, accept Him as your boss, then you aren't working for Him are you?

 

I can't say how "these people who reach out to others, volunteer, and give love" know what God's will is.

 

I can only say they must be doing something right.

 

Also, a good place to find definitions for words is the Dictionary.

 

They can't be doing God's will if He's not their boss. Notice that the very first definition both the noun and adj. of, "Christian", is one who places his belief in Jesus Christ. Number one.

[bluetuesday]

Originally posted by Moose

I feel for you actually. You've been witness towards what extreme Christianity can do to cohearse someone away from accepting Christ as their Saviour. It's really sad.

 

hello moose.

 

i didn't know you were called moose because you claim to have a huge penis. papillon had to explain it to me. but at least it clarifies dyermaker's comment about being bludgeoned with it. quite an image. thanks guys.

 

anyway, i digress.

 

you were almost going to get away with it, moose, but i CAN'T let that above comment go.

 

YOU moose, you are a christian fundamentalist. you are an extremist. you are displaying the sort of ideas about christianity that make christianity very difficult to swallow for millions of people. you are an advocate of the god of the big stick. yes you are.

 

dyermaker's views, and my own, have been formed through prayer. it's very arrogant to assume that our views on the nature of christianity have been formed because we have been exposed to something bad and that they are twisted because of it. and then to say that you feel sorry for people who hold those views.

 

moose, sweetheart. live and let live. please don't say you respect our right to hold opinions that differ from yours and then pity us for the obvious damage you think we must have suffered before we could possibly hold them...!

[Moose]

I made no such claim. My wife did, and I wasn't appreciative over it either. My nickname was given to me by my Father because I was born breech and had a rather large head.......

 

moose, sweetheart. live and let live. please don't say you respect our right to hold opinions that differ from yours and then pity us for the obvious damage you think we must have suffered before we could possibly hold them...!

 

Yeah well, I don't consider myself an extremist at all. I can pity whomever I want for their opinions and views......( In a childish voice I state), "Your not the boss of me!".

[kit4kat]

Its amazing how I'm getting sucked into this debate!!! I must say though, I'm not trying to offend anyone here, I'm just stating my views and opinions on things...

 

Why does that upset you?

 

It seems most people who call themselves Christians are afraid that other people could too "easily" become Christians as well. You say 'Anyone can do that!'--as if that's a bad thing. Don't you want 'anyone' to be part of your club?

 

Christianity isn't a club. The fact that you refer to it as that erks me a bit. Loving others and showing concern are Christian characteristics. All day yesterday, I had that funny little saying in my head "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" and I couldn't figure out why. But after reading this post today, it makes sense. When you're in a society that assumes Christianity, act like the Christians do. Just because someone says something, or does something doesn't make them that. This is a lame example, but-- if I didn't belong to a country club, but I really wanted people to think I did, I could dress the part, walk the walk, talk the talk, but unless I actually became a member, I would never be a apart of the country club. It IS easy to become a Christian-- saying you love God is great, showing loving concern for others is even better, even going to church can make you look part of the package! But it isn't until you profess your faith in Jesus that you're an actual Christian-- a true, guenuine believer.

 

dyermaker's views, and my own, have been formed through prayer. it's very arrogant to assume that our views on the nature of christianity have been formed because we have been exposed to something bad and that they are twisted because of it. and then to say that you feel sorry for people who hold those views.

 

Really? Blue, yours and Dyer's opinions differ a lot too. If I was to put you on one of those comparision scales, you'd be closer to the side of what I believe, not Dyer. Beliefs can be twisted through personal perception and life experiences. The fact that you say you and Dyer have been praying about your views on Christianity blows my mind! I think the exact opposite, if you were to begin praying to find the exact truth, perhaps your views would change. But hey, if you believe that God has led you to your conclusions, then more power to you.

 

YOU moose, you are a christian fundamentalist. you are an extremist. you are displaying the sort of ideas about christianity that make christianity very difficult to swallow for millions of people. you are an advocate of the god of the big stick. yes you are.

 

In Moose's defense, I would not call him an extremist. Christianity is difficult to swallow for a lot of people because it involves a life change-- a complete 180 for some of them. And I don't get that whole 'advocate of the god of the big stick' thing. If its some wise thing, it went straight over my head-- I do have my blonde moments.

[bluetuesday]

Originally posted by kit4kat

Really? Blue, yours and Dyer's opinions differ a lot too. If I was to put you on one of those comparision scales, you'd be closer to the side of what I believe, not Dyer. Beliefs can be twisted through personal perception and life experiences. The fact that you say you and Dyer have been praying about your views on Christianity blows my mind! I think the exact opposite, if you were to begin praying to find the exact truth, perhaps your views would change.

my views differ from dyermaker's on many things, but our views on the definition of christianity are similar. if you think otherwise you cannot have read this thread closely.

 

my stance is that anyone who lives in the way christ commanded is a christian, a follower of christ. regardless of whether they think jesus was the son of god.

 

anyone who claims jesus is the christ and fails to live as he taught is not a christian. i hold that belief without action is worthless when it comes to defining christianity.

 

please do not assume that if i prayed about this my views would change. my views have changed - TO this. i have been seeking answers from god all my life. what i have posted is what he has led me to understand.

 

you are making the same basic assumption that moose and blockhead have made - that there is only one right answer. i never stated i was right and others were wrong. that was moose. i believe that my being right does not preclude the possibility of you also being right.

[Moose]

i never stated i was right and others were wrong. that was moose.

 

Where in the world to you see that? I've always said I have my beliefs and you have yours. Leave it at that. You and I have no authority to claim that which is right......to me, my beliefs are right for me, to you, your beliefs are right for you......where do you see that I said you were wrong?

[bluetuesday]

Originally posted by Moose

Get over it. Believe what you like, and I'll believe what I like....there will never be a one world religion until Christ comes for His Church.....then we'll all know who's right and who's wrong won't we?

 

i think it was here.

[Moose]

No, it's not. You won't ever find me saying that my religion is the right religion. You won't find a comment from me saying that I'm right and you're wrong, especially when it comes to religion.

[bluetuesday]

huh?

 

you said: "then we'll all know who's right and who's wrong, won't we?"

 

so you must think there is a right and wrong. and you obviously think you're right.

 

and i don't think the same way as you. and as you were answering me at the time you said it... well the maths is pretty easy moose.

 

i don't mind you thinking that, but don't try and deny that's what you said when it's here in black and white.

[Moose]

So I guess I should've put in there, "We'll know who's right and who's wrong if there is a right and wrong", then huh? Jeez, got to be do friggin' technical. I'm sure I put that in there because you or someone else was implying there was a right and a wrong, I remember now, you were the one who said I though you were automatically wrong.......geeeez, no wonder I put that in there.

 

and i don't think the same way as you. and as you were answering me at the time you said it... well the maths is pretty easy moose.

 

?

[kit4kat]

please do not assume that if i prayed about this my views would change. my views have changed - TO this. i have been seeking answers from god all my life. what i have posted is what he has led me to understand.

 

I never assumed. I never said that if you prayed your views WOULD change. I said perhaps they would, but then I followed up with if this is what God is leading you to believe then more power to you.

 

i never stated i was right and others were wrong.

 

And I never said you said that.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

Well, thanks. I think. You must be thinking about my trip to Cali. in Feb. Actually, I'm closer to where your at than you think. I'm in the most southern part of Missouri, and your in Texas aren't you?

I'm in Northern California.

Great burn there Dyer! Excellent!

I hope you're serious. I'd have to continue to burn you before you could be my friend. It's more of a ritual here.

I really didn't intend for you to think that's what I was up to, but if you think that was the plan, fine. I don't think I need any clarification about my belief, I know everything I need to know....thanks.

I don't mean clarification personally, I mean, I think this was just another way for you to assert your own beliefs, and not neccesarily express a sincere interest in the beliefs of others--Hint: If you were looking for an argument, that's probably the case.

Spreading the Lord's message is just like any other job.

I disagree, and I'd hate to look at it that way.

 

A job is something you do for yourself. You do it for the check.

 

Being a Christian is something you should do for others. Some people live by actions, some people live by words--I've found the latter to be somewhat worthless.

You have to realize first that He's the boss. If you don't place Him as your boss, accept Him as your boss, then you aren't working for Him are you?

If someone shows up every day, washes his hands, is courteous to the customers, uses the scales, and can make pizzas faster than Katie and I combined, but it turns out he DOESN"T work there, no one's going to complain.

They can't be doing God's will if He's not their boss.

We all work for God. I think some people are too busy actually working to make that clear enough for you.

Notice that the very first definition both the noun and adj. of, "Christian", is one who places his belief in Jesus Christ. Number one.

Dude, that is NOT how a dictionary works. They are not in "order of importance".

 

For example, look up "sex" again--It'll take you five definitions before you get to the good parts.

It IS easy to become a Christian-- saying you love God is great, showing loving concern for others is even better, even going to church can make you look part of the package! But it isn't until you profess your faith in Jesus that you're an actual Christian-- a true, guenuine believer.

That's simply your opinion, many, including the Dictionary, don't limit it like that.

 

Additionally, I've found this:

 

1. Showing loving concern for others

 

To be infinitely more significant than:

 

1. Going to church

2. Professing a belief in J.C.

 

 

Showing loving conern for others actually makes a difference. It actually helps other people.

 

Going to church and professing a belief are things you do for YOURSELF--and anyone who's priorities are:

 

1. Self

2. Others

 

Make me question their fidelity to the teachings that energize them.

[BlockHead]

bluetuesday

dyermaker's views, and my own, have been formed through prayer.

More like years of lobbying.

Mr. dyermaker has no interest in salvation.

 

Maybe you aren’t very far from becoming like Mr. dyermaker.

bluetuesday

you are making the same basic assumption that moose and blockhead have made - that there is only one right answer.

I think there is one basic, simple, and affordable requirement. Some people seem to find it incomprehensible, and exceedingly difficult.

Love God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all of your mind. Jesus did it so why can’t you.

dyermaker

If someone shows up every day, washes his hands, is courteous to the customers, uses the scales, and can make pizzas faster than Katie and I combined, but it turns out he DOESN"T work there, no one's going to complain.

I don’t expect him to get paid by the real owner.

Everybody submits to something whether it be God, money, sex, or their own egos.

dyermaker

We all work for God. I think some people are too busy actually working to make that clear enough for you.

I disagree.

 

I wonder how many people are trying to serve multiple masters.

How can I be a good Christian, good Buddhist, good Socialist, and good person at the same time. Maybe they want to cover all of the bases so they refuse to commit to any.

Charity seems to be the lowest common denominator.

Maybe some people are just fickle.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by BlockHead

I don’t expect him to get paid by the real owner.

That's my point.

 

The person with the nametag, who has professed a belief in Christ, is ultimately doing it for the paycheck--salvation.

 

There are plenty of people who do it without such an incentive. If they're doing it just as well, if not better, where is the harm in calling them Christian?

 

It boils down to elitism. You have found a lifestyle a specific way, and you want others to follow you.

[Moose]

Originally posted by dyermaker

That's my point.

 

The person with the nametag, who has professed a belief in Christ, is ultimately doing it for the paycheck--salvation.

 

There are plenty of people who do it without such an incentive. If they're doing it just as well, if not better, where is the harm in calling them Christian?

 

It boils down to elitism. You have found a lifestyle a specific way, and you want others to follow you.

 

AWESOME POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, as long as I've been on this forum, how much I've seen people use, abuse and love this forum......this has to be THE most perfect reason why I'm still a part of it.

 

( Mental note to all, donate to LS now, not because of the season, but for the reason........you don't want me to explain this.....do you? )

 

You're right, the first assumption from all believers is that we get something in advance. What a sweet deal, huh? And just think, people who read us bickering against each other believe that they should be able to get as extreme as you and I do.......they might even think that this is how Christian's get along with each other. Think about that for about .001 of a second.

 

There are plenty of people who do it without such an incentive. If they're doing it just as well, if not better, where is the harm in calling them Christian?

 

Because Salvation isn't the only incentive.

 

It boils down to elitism. You have found a lifestyle a specific way, and you want others to follow you.

 

How in the world can my beliefs be elite when all are welcome?

 

Yes, I found a lifestyle a specific way, key word is, "I", meaning me, ......

 

Of course I want others to follow......I know I won't be alone.....but hey, I'd hope everyone I came in contact with will be there.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

How in the world can my beliefs be elite when all are welcome?

Those who don't believe in Jesus aren't welcome.

[Moose]

Originally posted by dyermaker

Those who don't believe in Jesus aren't welcome.

 

Here's my opinion, and belief:

 

Those who follow His teachings and follow His example WITHOUT believing that He died and PAID for our sins, rose again, and speaks on our behalf when we face our Maker.....aren't welcome...........

 

How much clearer can a HUMAN be while expressing his opinion without you or someone else taking it out of context?

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

Here's my opinion, and belief:

 

Those who follow His teachings and follow His example WITHOUT believing that He died and PAID for our sins, rose again, and speaks on our behalf when we face our Maker.....aren't welcome...........

 

How much clearer can a HUMAN be while expressing his opinion without you or someone else taking it out of context?

I'm not taking it out of context.

 

Your beliefs aren't obscenely complex, it's not as if I can't understand you. I simply say that the belief that only people who believe as you do ("that He died and PAID for our sins, rose again, and speaks on our behalf when we face our Maker") are welcome in your community of Christian is elitist.

 

Most professions of Jesus' divinity are aesthetic, this is no exception.

 

On every Nazi's belt buckle, it said "God is with us" (in German, of course)--To me, that's not enough. Not only is it not enough, it's irrelevant. I'll know you're a Christian by your love.

[kit4kat]

Your beliefs aren't obscenely complex, it's not as if I can't understand you. I simply say that the belief that only people who believe as you do ("that He died and PAID for our sins, rose again, and speaks on our behalf when we face our Maker") are welcome in your community of Christian is elitist.

 

Umm, I don't know if you would place me in the category of a Christian elitist, but I happen to believe the same exact thing. BUT, I don't turn people away just because they don't think and believe the same as I do. One of my best friends isn't a Christian, and I welcome him with open arms. So does another one of my close Christian -- and Christian in my sense -- friends. An elitist is superior to all, a higher class, percieved better than the rest. I do not consider myself like that at all. Just because I have my beliefs does NOT make me a better person. We are all more wicked than we could've ever imagined. Elitists are the best, they have few weaknesses and flaws, or so it would seem. And I am FULL of weaknesses and flaws. In no way am I an elitist-- I do believe that Christ died for us though, and paid for our sins to purchase a place in heaven for us.

 

For the record, I realize that you are saying that thinking that way can be considered elitist, and I am saying what I'm saying because I am not that, and I don't have an elitist way of thinking.

[dyermaker]

It's not so much that *you're* an elitist, it's more that you turn Christianity (as a whole) into an elitist club, where only those who have accepted the way you have can be a part of it.

[moimeme]

Those who follow His teachings and follow His example WITHOUT believing that He died and PAID for our sins, rose again, and speaks on our behalf when we face our Maker.....aren't welcome...........

 

Fortunately, my God is a god of love. Don't know who yours is but he's nobody I'd want to meet. Some dude who sets a trap - makes a planet on which he scatters all the people, then sends one single dude to talk to folks and only the ones who believe that particular dude get to join the club. Everybody else - too bad, so sad.

 

Nope. Sounds like nobody I'd want to know at all.

[Moose]

Originally posted by dyermaker

It's not so much that *you're* an elitist, it's more that you turn Christianity (as a whole) into an elitist club, where only those who have accepted the way you have can be a part of it.

 

So? It's your prerogative to join it or no.

 

Fortunately, my God is a god of love. Don't know who yours is but he's nobody I'd want to meet. Some dude who sets a trap - makes a planet on which he scatters all the people, then sends one single dude to talk to folks and only the ones who believe that particular dude get to join the club. Everybody else - too bad, so sad.

 

Good for you. I'm happy you've found yourself in that way. I'm no better, and you're no worse, (as far as I'm concerned), for believing the way we do.

[BlockHead]

Moose

I think some political beliefs spilled into some of their religious beliefs. Some people are hard core Socialists and strongly believe in entitlements. The rich and powerful must give to the poor. Who is the richest and most powerful person in the universe? God! Because God is wise and good, he must provide access to heaven for all. They think they are entitled to it. They don’t see anything in terms of good and evil, but instead rich vs. poor so there is no real concept of morality. Is this God from the New Testament, or is this a god of their own creation?

 

I think political correctness is academic dishonesty. I think the use of Christian to describe non-Christians is dishonest and destructive.

dyermaker

The person with the nametag, who has professed a belief in Christ, is ultimately doing it for the paycheck--salvation.

I think this is the motivation for some people.

 

I believe that everybody must submit his or her will to something. I believe that God is the best choice I can make. For me, my religion is not an emotional experience, but a lifelong struggle.

You must choose because there is no compromise.

 

I also admire Jesus’s faith, wisdom, and courage.

 

 

 

Elitists

One type of elitist is a kind of snob. You can recognize them by their amazing ability to boast about themselves, and denigrate others. They value the appearance of superiority.

Another type of elitist is somebody who thinks by virtue of his or her intelligence, status, or birth are entitled to rule. In other words, they think you are too stupid to make your own decisions so they must make the decisions for you. For example, one of them thinks I’m too stupid to vote the right way so I should be denied my right to vote.

 

 

dyermaker

Most professions of Jesus' divinity are aesthetic, this is no exception.

Ahhhh. Judging others.

You aren’t qualified to judge a person’s faith.

moimeme

Some dude who sets a trap - makes a planet on which he scatters all the people, then sends one single dude to talk to folks and only the ones who believe that particular dude get to join the club.

How can I put it bluntly?

We tripped on our own two feet.

God isn’t here to wipe our butts so know your place!

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by dyermaker

There are plenty of people who do it without such an incentive. If they're doing it just as well, if not better, where is the harm in calling them Christian?

 

This is an interesting idea.

 

I'm not Christian and yet I lead what would be considered a good Christian lifestyle. I don't want to be called something I am not simply because my personal choices and lifestyle fit under the category heading of Christian. I can't imagine a Christian who leads the same lifestyle as me, would want me to be considered a Christian if I haven't accepted Christ. I don't think that Christ (if He is real) would accept my actions and my personal set of rules and my lifestyle as justification to call me a Christian. People can be good people even without a faith or religion.

 

Somewhere else in this thread, someone mentioned Christian principles and laws and behavior. It made it sound like before Christ people had no compassion, love, or decency. That human kind killed and ate each other regularly! There are civilizations that existed before Christ that led lives that would be considered Christian now. The Christian laws in the Bible - including the commandments - are human aren't they? Some people, and I'm not talking on this board necessarily, make it sound like ONLY people of faith (no matter what that faith might be) are the ONLY "good" people around. As though someone like me, who does not believe in creation or divinity as it is recognized today, could snap at any moment and break the "laws of God" and kill someone or something! So, I'm just wondering what your ideas are of someone who is NOT a Christian.

 

To get back to the original question of [color=blue]What is your definition of a Christian?[/color] I'm wondering what is your definition and description of a person who is not a Christian?

[Moose]

To get back to the original question of What is your definition of a Christian? I'm wondering what is your definition and description of a person who is not a Christian?

 

One who doesn't believe in Christ.

 

That's all.