Christian: Definition

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Moose

One who doesn't believe in Christ.

 

That's all.

 

Duh!

 

I mean, how do people see non-Christians? What kind of lifestyle do people perceive non-Christians as living? I'm just curious about people's perceptions.

[Moose]

I would have to say, ( at least for me ), that I don't see a difference at all. However a non-Christian acts and carry themselves, a Christian could act and carry themselve the same way. Unless a non-Christian professes that they don't believe in Christ, it's nearly impossible to tell the difference.

 

If you walk into a room, and see this guy smoking a bong with a naked women on his lap and they're laughing, cussing and drinking......a person might say to himself, "These people aren't Christians". That would be a hasty assumption. They both could be Christians, but aren't walking in the Spirit at the time.

 

That door swings both ways too. If you notice a man giving away all of his possesions, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving homes to the homeless, and living as close to a sinless life as he possibly can......a person might say to himself, "This person is a Christian". That too would be a hasty assumption.

 

I almost wish that there was a sure fire way to tell, but there isn't. Jesus Himself said that those who are first will be last, and those who are last may be first. Which to me means that there will be a lot of disappointment for some who believe they are living righteously enough to have eternal life, and some will be surprised when it's realized that they accepted the gift and granted eternal life, even though their walk was far from righteousness.

 

So I guess to answer your question, you really can't tell who is and who isn't a Christian.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by BlockHead

I think the use of Christian to describe non-Christians is dishonest and destructive.

If you object to me using the word 'Christian' as the dictionary allows it, I think your grievance is with the dictionary.

[Moose]

Originally posted by dyermaker

If you object to me using the word 'Christian' as the dictionary allows it, I think your grievance is with the dictionary.

 

See Dyer, this is probably the main reason you and I go at each other so much. Blockhead stated an opinion, his opinion, you automatically assumed he was placing this, "Grievance", on you. It doesn't look like he did to me, but hey, who knows except Blockhead.........either way.....it's his opinion, in his mind it's an accuracy, in your mind it's a personal attack.

 

There are no wrong opinions unless the individual who owns it, admits to it.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Those who follow His teachings and follow His example WITHOUT believing that He died and PAID for our sins, rose again, and speaks on our behalf when we face our Maker.....aren't welcome...........

 

It's the "paid for" part of the whole deal that I have trouble with, Moose.

 

The poor man would had to have been martyred and murdered a thousand times over to pay the heavy dept mankind has placed upon him…one that we are still racking up. I never envied the position of a whipping boy and would never want to acquire one for myself. It's too easy.

 

Yet, I believe there was a profit called Christ. I believe that G-d has sent many spiritual messengers (in one form or another) to many nations to spread his word in a way that could best be interpreted by that particular society and/or culture. If we stop focusing so much on our differences, we might be able to see our amazing similarities. In THAT we find our Creator's "truth."

 

Okay…brace yourself, Moosey…this one might cause you to squirm in your chair and give you a wedgy:

 

I believe that Christ died as a "result" of human sin rather than "for" human sin. He is a prime example of religious intolerance - what happens when organized, religious politicking interferes with an individual's "faith." The exemplary way he lived his life should serve as an example to us all. I see him as a man who was willing to die because of his unshakable "faith" in his Father…and not because he aligned himself with a particular "religion." And aren't we all the Sons and Daughters of G-d -- the wretched prodigy that we may be? Maybe…just maybe…our father's love for us is unconditional regardless of how we squabble amongst each other for his favor. Would you not love your own children regardless of how they turned out? After all, doesn't your Bible say that G-d created us in his own image?

 

I mean no insult to the dearly devoted, But personally I just can't fathom how a man can bonk his secretary - go home and abuse his wife and children - molest the neighbor's kid - steal from his mother… than go into confessional on Sunday - say five Hale Mary's - drop a twenty in the collection plate and start the week all over again with a clean slate. (gasps for breath)

 

As Christ said to Mary Madeline: "…go and sin no more."

 

So how many chances do we all get?

 

For me, I believe if there is any "salvation" to be had, then it comes not just by way of "belief" but only when one accepts that "repenting" means changing the course of one's life. For some it is a struggle and religion helps keep them in line. For others it requires little effort and "faith" in a Higher Power (or purpose) is their only motivator. I've also met those who were inspired to reconnect to their spiritual conscience by way of their own belief system…however different it may be from his/her neighbors. To me, it doesn't matter which of the countless middle-men (religions) gets the credit…it's ALL G-d's work. And His hands stretch far.

 

I almost wish that there was a sure fire way to tell, but there isn't….

 

Why? - Why our constant human need to define, label and differentiate?

 

So I guess to answer your question, you really can't tell who is and who isn't a Christian.

 

I agree. Not unless someone starts handing out tee-shirts. But for me, when I meet a kindred spirit I know him/her immediately. It never enters my mind to question their religious affiliation or what political party they align themselves with. You recognize G-d's light regardless of whether or not they come waving recruitment papers. For me, I find the most inspiration when I witness a single act of human kindness. No matter how humble or small. Scare tactics and threats of eternal damnation do little for me except keep me running in the opposite direction. Unfortunately, some organized religions have relied far too long on just that.

 

As for me…I've tested many waters and resolved to remain one of G-d's free agents. I prefer to answer directly to the BIG BOSS rather then the minions of his self-appointed subordinates.

 

Never could stomach all that darn micro-management, anyway!

[Moose]

Thanks for sharing your opinions Enigma. Very well explained. I want to clarify something with you though, if you don't mind.

 

I mean no insult to the dearly devoted, But personally I just can't fathom how a man can bonk his secretary - go home and abuse his wife and children - molest the neighbor's kid - steal from his mother… than go into confessional on Sunday - say five Hale Mary's - drop a twenty in the collection plate and start the week all over again with a clean slate. (gasps for breath)

 

I hope you weren't saying that this is a process that I follow, I can't fanthom this behavior either. It's nonsense to have this kind of mentality.......being a true Christian means a life change. Not a tweeking of your habits......and like I've said countless times, your views and beliefs are yours alone. I don't share them and that shouldn't matter to you......

[Lucia]

I suppose a Christian is someone who accepted Christ as a teacher and an example. When we have a teacher, we try to learn from him, and then live our own life. We are not planning to remain students forever.

I suppose we should believe in a message he left for us, that there is good and evil, in the world and inside of us. And that we can become enlightened and blessed when we destroy the evil within ourselves. When we learn to love all people like brothers, sisters, children or parents. I like one thing Mother Teresa said:"I see a God in every person". I think that is the essence of being religious.

Really, being religious means being normal, everything else is a sickness. We know that by being depressed, anxious, angry, jealous etc., that we are not in harmony. Being religious to me is to see clearly what is right and what is wrong, and to do right. To do it not for Christ, not for other people, but for your soul.

[BlockHead]

EnigmaXOXO

I believe that Christ died as a "result" of human sin rather than "for" human sin.

That is another issue.

There are different interpretations about why Christ died. The issue here is the definition of Christian.

 

dyermaker and a few others are arguing that charity makes a person Christian.

Moose is arguing that faith in Christ makes a person Christian.

I am arguing that faith in Christ and devotion of God make a person Christian.

 

I tried to hypothesize some of the reasons why a person would want to generalize the meaning of Christian. I think most of the reasons are political. Marxist philosophy, political correctness, and hatred.

 

 

EnigmaXOXO

Why? - Why our constant human need to define, label and differentiate?

Why differentiate between good and evil? Right and Wrong? Adult and Child? Love and Hate? Insight and Ignorance?

EnigmaXOXO

I mean no insult to the dearly devoted, But personally I just can't fathom how a man can bonk his secretary - go home and abuse his wife and children - molest the neighbor's kid - steal from his mother… than go into confessional on Sunday - say five Hale Mary's - drop a twenty in the collection plate and start the week all over again with a clean slate. (gasps for breath)

The priest can only forgive sins that he is willing to admit to. If he does admit to doing those nasty things, the priest will probably give him advice like stop bonking the secretary, abusing his wife, etc. It is up to him whether or not he accepts the advice. Confession involves both forgiveness and penance.

Do you have a problem with the priest not reporting the abuse or whatever to the police? I don’t think it is much different from keeping things confidential with a doctor.

On the issue of punishment, that is left to God. The priest is not there to judge the bad and abusive husband. He can condemn his sinful activities, but not the person. If a law was broken, that should be left to the law enforcement not the church.

 

I think the people who like to talk about “not judging others” are usually the first to judge.

 

 

 

Are we working toward blissful ambiguity? Is this nirvana?

 

dyermaker

I find myself arguing over a definition that seems to have popped out of nowhere. Does it have a source? Why are your standards so low?

Here is the definition from Merrian Webster.

 

Main Entry: Chris·tian

Pronunciation: 'kris-ch&n, 'krish-

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin christianus, adjective & n., from Greek christianos, from Christos

1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1) : DISCIPLE 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961

2 : the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress

 

“One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.”

His main teaching was the devotion to God. Why omit it?

Loving others was second to it.

[Moose]

“One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.”

His main teaching was the devotion to God. Why omit it?

Loving others was second to it.

 

Dyer will just tell you that defintions weren't placed in order of importance.

 

Also, you say that:

 

Moose is arguing that faith in Christ makes a person Christian.

 

Which is true, however, I believe as you do as well:

 

and devotion of God make a person Christian.

 

Key word, "and".

[dyermaker]

His main teaching was the devotion to God. Why omit it?

There's a difference between devotion to God and profession thereof.

 

I argue that you don't need to say "I'm devoted to God" to show devotion--I favor actions over words.

[moimeme]

mean no insult to the dearly devoted, But personally I just can't fathom how a man can bonk his secretary - go home and abuse his wife and children - molest the neighbor's kid - steal from his mother… than go into confessional on Sunday - say five Hale Mary's - drop a twenty in the collection plate and start the week all over again with a clean slate. (gasps for breath)

 

That has nothing to do with being devoted. A vital part of the Act of Contrition and of confession is that you confess and then resolve to NEVER do it again. And you are supposed to make a concerted effort to NOT do it again. Anybody who uses the confessional as a sin car wash is abusing it. Again, it is an error to blame the tenets of the Church for their misuse by parishoners. It is NOT all right to sin, confess, and sin exactly the same way again time after time.

[BlockHead]

dyermaker

Devotion to God and charity are two entirely different concepts.

Being charitable is part of being devoted to God, and believing in Jesus.

You can reject God and Jesus, and still be charitable.

 

dyermaker

I argue that you don't need to say "I'm devoted to God" to show devotion--I favor actions over words.

Can you deny him three times?

[BlockHead]

Moose

You said you make pizzas for a living, right? Are you required to wear a uniform, bib, hat, anything with the companies logo on it? Have you ever? You do have a boss correct? When someone asks where you work at, you do say, "__________ Pizza", don't you?

 

Spreading the Lord's message is just like any other job. You have to realize first that He's the boss. If you don't place Him as your boss, accept Him as your boss, then you aren't working for Him are you?

I hope this helps buttress your argument.

Mat 6:1-4

1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Mat 6:1-4 Interpretation: Righteousness When Only God Sees

Fifth, Jesus promises eternal reward for those who seek to please God rather than mortals. Jesus concludes his warnings with another graphic image: businessmen regularly wrote the phrase received their reward in full (see 6:2, 5, 16) on receipts to indicate that no further payment was required (Deissmann 1978:110). Jesus is saying that those who give charity to be admired by others, or pray and fast to people rather than to God, already have what they wanted: others' approval. They will not be rewarded again for their deeds on the day of judgment.

[linn31]

Good deeds aren’t enough, and neither is imitating Jesus.

 

I'm a newcomer here, and I just had a bit of a comment on a previous post. What exactley do you mean that good deeds aren't enough and neither is imitating Jesus, of course it is. In James 2:18 it says, "But someone will say, 'You have faith; I have deeds.'

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." You cannot serve the Lord without using deeds, and it goes vice versa, you cannot serve God without following in his image. God created man in his own image and no matter how clichéd it sounds, we must always consider the question, What would Jesus do?

[Moose]

What exactley do you mean that good deeds aren't enough and neither is imitating Jesus, of course it is.

Not without the right heart attitude........