Oh woe is me (not)

[HopingAgain]

Haven't read anything else other than your opening post yet, but did you tell your wife? Confess to her about the contact? If you didn't, you really should. You owe your wife the truth. You took a chance of losing everything (again) and ruined all that hard work you did for 2 years, working hard to get through it all. All for what? To 'feel' again with exMW, whom only reached out for an ego feed, knowing full well the A would be an EA/flirtation and not likely either of you divorcing to be together!

 

I hope you continue to shut the door and never look back.

 

Or that if he won't, his wife will decide to shut the door for herself and never look back.

[janedoe67]

Rick, I do not agree with what you did, but I have to admire you for having the guts and fortitude not to blow a bunch of rainbow smoke up your own you know what about AP hearts and flowers and evil BS's. At least you KNOW how to call a spade a spade instead of deluding yourself with a bunch of "I'm the exception" soulmate fodder.

[thefooloftheyear]

I agree. If every BS followed this they would have their answer either way. You cannot nice a spouse back into the M. I learned that one the hard way.

 

PhoenixRise... you should have seen the amount of dishes I had broken. I even put a trash can over my WH's head. Kicked him out numerous times, I left numerous times. Nothing like shock value . If my WH is stupid enough again he deserves any damn drama coming his way.

 

 

I know none of this is supposed to be funny, but I just cant help laughing at the thought/image of this...

 

Again..apologies..

 

TFY

[AlwaysGrowing]

I know my feelings will never end. His won't either.

 

This may be true. Or it may be like many things in life, our views change, our thoughts change, our opinion changes. With time, distance and clearer head we change.

 

Emotions are neither necessarily based on truth or static.

[ladydesigner]

The point that is lost over and over and over again is that people who leave As and stay M often keep their love for their AP. They hold it close to the vest, a personal secret. Everyone? Of course not. Not all As are the same. But many WS simply lie about the feelings for their AP ending. (Why not lie? We don't plan on acting on the love. The potential negative consequences keep us firmly in our Ms.) Anybody in real life that asks about my AP hears, "Nope, I'm fine. Totally over it."

 

That's why MPs sometimes post, to tell everyone reading that As do have to end, but if there were very strong feelings, those feelings remain. I know my feelings will never end. His won't either. But we are done and working hard at improving the lives we already have. It's the easier and more responsible path.

 

Wouldn't you want to feel indifferent though? Especially if you are opening yourself up to love again? I do not hold a flame for any of my past partners, even my first love who broke my heart. To me it is emotional baggage that gets in the way of other relationships that could be more meaningful, but that's me.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Wouldn't you want to feel indifferent though? Especially if you are opening yourself up to love again? I do not hold a flame for any of my past partners, even my first love who broke my heart. To me it is emotional baggage that gets in the way of other relationships that could be more meaningful, but that's me.

 

I think the point charade is making is that there are more xaps than you think that really do harbor feelings still for their xap, but because they choose to stay and recover they bury those feelings deep and do not talk about them.

 

I have some past relationships that I do not harbor feelings for anymore, but it has taken years to really put that behind me. You are right, it is emotional baggage that gets in the way, but time is what heals it.

 

For instance, I ran into my first real love at a community event a year ago. I hardly ever see him even though we live about 20 minutes apart - our lives are just completely separate. It was good to see him, we chatted a little bit, shared about our families and moved on. I walked away feeling good, remembering the sweetness of the relationship but knowing it never would have been good for us in the long run. I understand that these situations we speak of are entirely different, but you get the idea.

 

But in Rick's situation, he sees this woman almost daily so it is incredibly hard for him to move on completely and then his wife knows he sees the ap daily so it has to be taking a toll on her as well. This is a recipe for disaster. I never got it early on but I do now. I would have an incredibly hard time if I had to see my XMM regularly.

 

However, even after 4 years and diligence on my part to recover my marriage, I can honestly say that I still care about the guy. I don't want to - I would rather hate him - but I don't and some days are still hard - unanswered questions Etc. But I am like charade, though. If it comes up, I am totally fine. Out in public I am fine. I am a pretty good actress (theater comes naturally). No one knows that I still struggle. I don't let them see and I try not to let my husband see it either. I also believe my husband misses his xow as well - he just doesn't say so - and I know she shows up from time to time at the office still.

 

So yes, being a FWW, and knowing my husband (who is a fwh) pretty well - I believe that those feelings are absolutely still there even though we chose to stay in our marriage. I think it is more true of most of these situations than anyone cares to admit.

 

My 2 cents (which isn't worth much these days).

Edited September 27, 2013 by lilmisscantbewrong

[PhoenixRise]

I am shocked that anybody could read Rick's story about his affair with this MOW and call anything about it love.

 

And I am not one of those people who say there is never real love for APs. My uncle married his former AP decades ago and they went on to have a long marriage complete with children and grandchildren.

 

But what Rick is describing when he posts about this OW is not love. I think mostly, after building his ego up to epic proportions by aggressively pursuing the affair with him, she crushed his ego into smithereens when she dumped him without a backward glance.

[rumbleseat]

I read the back story a bit, and it sounds like this ow is cheating on her husband with the op. I also read about how the affair started in the first place. That puts a while new light on things.

 

It really seems as if she is someone who has a huge need to have an external source of validation. She sounds very much like one of those "confident" types who, underneath it all, is anything but, and she needs someone to make her feel pretty, sexy, good enough. She doesn't care who she hurts to get this ( it seems she knew the wife in this situation ) as long as she gets it, she is happy.

 

Pair that with the op who also seems to need external validation to a very large degree, and you have a volatile situation.

 

from what I understand, there had been some flirting back and forth, then one day the ow sat on to the op's lap, made some extremely flirtatious remarks, and things took off from there.

 

There is something very telling there. While many ( most?) men may have been flattered , and perhaps even somewhat bemused by that, I think most would also have been somewhat repulsed by the idea. They would have told this married woman to get down and go home to her husband. The op didn't. Why is that? It's foolish to say that it was "love" or anything like that, yet he was a mm who was was willing to start an affair with a mw. He was also willing to hide and lie about the actions of the ow to his wife.

 

Right there, in that one small act, there is pretty much everything he needs to know.

 

My opinion is that they are both broken people who need that external validation. They don't really care who gets hurt in fulfilling that need. They may pay lip service to them, but they don't really matter. They are also both willing to lie and use deceit to get that validation.

 

If the op and his ow/mw do end up together, nothing would change. No amount of "long talks" or anything else will change who they both are on a very fundamental level. It wouldn't be long before one ( or both) of them was out looking again for someone to make them feel good, to bring back that "rush", etc.

 

Heavy duty therapy may help, but that's a long and hard road that many are unwilling to take.

 

Meanwhile, the two bs's here ( there's a betrayed husband too, don't forget) are likely working hard, but on some level, they sense things still aren't right, and they may well be blaming themselves. If they somehow tried a little bit harder, were a little more understanding, give things just a little more time, things will be okay again. The sad fact is that as long as there is the dishonesty, the flirtation, the contact, things won't ever be okay and the bs'es will both be vaguely unhappy ( of course, they likely won't say anything, as that sadness is just as well hidden by a bs as this pining for an ow seems to be, according to some ws and ow/om).

 

Unless the op is willing to be honest, tell his wife what is going on and his feelings so they can both decide what they will do together, their marriage is doomed to likely be unhappy.

 

That's the thing that also seems to be lacking in he OP's marriage. Honesty and a willingness to tackle problems together. Yes, it may hurt his wife to know he still had feelings for the ex-ow, but by knowing that, they could have addressed he problem together, and this problem is like so many others. Once ou shine a light on it, it starts to go away. His wife would also have been given the simple human dignity of being able to make choices in her life. Choices about whether or not she wants to stay with a man who really doesn't love her all that much right now?

 

Doesn't she deserve that, or is it all just about what the OP and the ow want?

[KentuckyGent]

I think mostly, after building his ego up to epic proportions by aggressively pursuing the affair with him, she crushed his ego into smithereens when she dumped him without a backward glance.

 

 

Bingo! I had the same thing happen to me and I could not fathom having to see ex-MW on a daily basis. Thankfully we live nearly 2 hours apart. I would never, ever get over it. Some slack needs to be cut for Rick. I couldn't imagine.

[KentuckyGent]

I read the back story a bit, and it sounds like this ow is cheating on her husband with the op. I also read about how the affair started in the first place. That puts a while new light on things.

 

It really seems as if she is someone who has a huge need to have an external source of validation. She sounds very much like one of those "confident" types who, underneath it all, is anything but, and she needs someone to make her feel pretty, sexy, good enough. She doesn't care who she hurts to get this ( it seems she knew the wife in this situation ) as long as she gets it, she is happy.

 

Pair that with the op who also seems to need external validation to a very large degree, and you have a volatile situation.

 

from what I understand, there had been some flirting back and forth, then one day the ow sat on to the op's lap, made some extremely flirtatious remarks, and things took off from there.

 

There is something very telling there. While many ( most?) men may have been flattered , and perhaps even somewhat bemused by that, I think most would also have been somewhat repulsed by the idea. They would have told this married woman to get down and go home to her husband. The op didn't. Why is that? It's foolish to say that it was "love" or anything like that, yet he was a mm who was was willing to start an affair with a mw. He was also willing to hide and lie about the actions of the ow to his wife.

 

Right there, in that one small act, there is pretty much everything he needs to know.

 

My opinion is that they are both broken people who need that external validation. They don't really care who gets hurt in fulfilling that need. They may pay lip service to them, but they don't really matter. They are also both willing to lie and use deceit to get that validation.

 

If the op and his ow/mw do end up together, nothing would change. No amount of "long talks" or anything else will change who they both are on a very fundamental level. It wouldn't be long before one ( or both) of them was out looking again for someone to make them feel good, to bring back that "rush", etc.

 

Heavy duty therapy may help, but that's a long and hard road that many are unwilling to take.

 

Meanwhile, the two bs's here ( there's a betrayed husband too, don't forget) are likely working hard, but on some level, they sense things still aren't right, and they may well be blaming themselves. If they somehow tried a little bit harder, were a little more understanding, give things just a little more time, things will be okay again. The sad fact is that as long as there is the dishonesty, the flirtation, the contact, things won't ever be okay and the bs'es will both be vaguely unhappy ( of course, they likely won't say anything, as that sadness is just as well hidden by a bs as this pining for an ow seems to be, according to some ws and ow/om).

 

Unless the op is willing to be honest, tell his wife what is going on and his feelings so they can both decide what they will do together, their marriage is doomed to likely be unhappy.

 

That's the thing that also seems to be lacking in he OP's marriage. Honesty and a willingness to tackle problems together. Yes, it may hurt his wife to know he still had feelings for the ex-ow, but by knowing that, they could have addressed he problem together, and this problem is like so many others. Once ou shine a light on it, it starts to go away. His wife would also have been given the simple human dignity of being able to make choices in her life. Choices about whether or not she wants to stay with a man who really doesn't love her all that much right now?

 

Doesn't she deserve that, or is it all just about what the OP and the ow want?

 

No way that "most" men would be repulsed. I think you give us too much credit. Monogamy goes against every instinct and biological hardwiring we have. If we're given the opportunity, a great many of us will take it.

[ladydesigner]

I think the point charade is making is that there are more xaps than you think that really do harbor feelings still for their xap, but because they choose to stay and recover they bury those feelings deep and do not talk about them.

 

I have some past relationships that I do not harbor feelings for anymore, but it has taken years to really put that behind me. You are right, it is emotional baggage that gets in the way, but time is what heals it.

 

For instance, I ran into my first real love at a community event a year ago. I hardly ever see him even though we live about 20 minutes apart - our lives are just completely separate. It was good to see him, we chatted a little bit, shared about our families and moved on. I walked away feeling good, remembering the sweetness of the relationship but knowing it never would have been good for us in the long run. I understand that these situations we speak of are entirely different, but you get the idea.

 

But in Rick's situation, he sees this woman almost daily so it is incredibly hard for him to move on completely and then his wife knows he sees the ap daily so it has to be taking a toll on her as well. This is a recipe for disaster. I never got it early on but I do now. I would have an incredibly hard time if I had to see my XMM regularly.

 

However, even after 4 years and diligence on my part to recover my marriage, I can honestly say that I still care about the guy. I don't want to - I would rather hate him - but I don't and some days are still hard - unanswered questions Etc. But I am like charade, though. If it comes up, I am totally fine. Out in public I am fine. I am a pretty good actress (theater comes naturally). No one knows that I still struggle. I don't let them see and I try not to let my husband see it either. I also believe my husband misses his xow as well - he just doesn't say so - and I know she shows up from time to time at the office still.

 

So yes, being a FWW, and knowing my husband (who is a fwh) pretty well - I believe that those feelings are absolutely still there even though we chose to stay in our marriage. I think it is more true of most of these situations than anyone cares to admit.

 

My 2 cents (which isn't worth much these days).

 

Well I do know it takes time to get over things but if you and your H are both secretly pining for your xaps the intimacy in the M suffers. If I knew my WH were still thinking of MOW fondly I would leave. I don't have any more time to waste on someone that doesn't really want to be with me.

[Journee]

Bingo! I had the same thing happen to me and I could not fathom having to see ex-MW on a daily basis. Thankfully we live nearly 2 hours apart. I would never, ever get over it. Some slack needs to be cut for Rick. I couldn't imagine.

 

 

I can appreciate how difficult it is to see the ghost of what ' could have been' when seeing one's AP on a regular basis.

 

The ick about it all is if he cannot move through and away from his feelings for MOW without acting on them then some honest decisions have to be made in his life. To hell with his BW I know....but not entirely. If Rick cannot give her the love and companionship/ friendship that they both deserve from marriage then so be it. They will both continue to breath and will move on from one another. That's the issue. Rick moved on from his wife years ago with this A. I would hope that him coming clean again to his wife would make it clear to her what depths this betrayal really has.

 

 

Everyone loses here for an instant. That doesn't mean they are forever doomed. So many AP's talk about carrying all of these deep feelings for one another. Why drag someone else through life with you if you are going to kick and scream on the inside the whole time? This would be the perfect time for Rick to own his true feelings. He obviously does not love his wife like a husband should. Time to put the cheese on the cracker.

 

There will not be easy answers but there could be honest one's.