Oh woe is me (not)

[Grumpybutfun]

Rick:

When you started discourse with OW again, you cheated all over again because you did something you knew was deceitful and could possibly lead to the A starting again. Don't be coy as to why you really took candy to her house...you were wanting something way more than what you have stated. But, thank you for writing this as I will refer it to all the spouses who say, "My H or W wants to reconcile after an affair." They need to go into that reconciliation process knowing that remorse doesn't always lead to redemption.

I also hope betrayed spouses read this and learn something about boundaries and commitment from supposed reconciliations. This exact thing is why I would never, ever take back my wife if she had an affair. Integrity isn't something you develop out of fear for what you lose, but out of respect for what you have.

Best,

Grumps

[ladydesigner]

Integrity isn't something you develop out of fear for what you lose, but out of respect for what you have.

 

This is really great. And a great post too Grumpy. I do think some WS's can change, but yes you cannot get that integrity back. Maybe regain, is that possible?

[secretlady76]

'

Um no the problem in A's are the WS's! Most of them have some kind of boundary or personality disorder. Also Foo issues play into it. Healthy people just don't have A's. If old habits die hard and the WS's breaks NC that is on the WS's they STILL have the issue that was always there in THEMSELVES not the BS.

 

I disagree purely based on my own experience, not anyone elses. Speaking as a BS at this point. As a BS yes my spouse cheated but I had to take some responsibility for this too. It wasn't what he did, it was why he did it...and quite frankly I hadn't been investing in our marriage either. No wonder he spent time with someone else. I was no great wife at that point. In fact, I had totally neglected him. And yes he had brought it up but I chose to ignore his pleas. As part of R'ing I put much effort in. I was on 'best behaviour' as was he. I was just explaining my experience.

 

As a WS, when I strayed, he had neglected my emotional needs at that point, but it was my choice to look outside the marriage for them. It was totally on my head. Had I explained how I felt then I would have given him the opportunity to maybe change things, but I didn't. I met someone and I fell for them. Once D-day hit, my husband did EXACTLY what I did in the same position and went all 'best behaviour'....being the 'model' husband. My example may be totally unique of course.

 

Can't say either of us stayed 'model' spouses for that long though!

[ladydesigner]

I disagree purely based on my own experience, not anyone elses. Speaking as a BS at this point. As a BS yes my spouse cheated but I had to take some responsibility for this too. It wasn't what he did, it was why he did it...and quite frankly I hadn't been investing in our marriage either. No wonder he spent time with someone else. I was no great wife at that point. In fact, I had totally neglected him. And yes he had brought it up but I chose to ignore his pleas. As part of R'ing I put much effort in. I was on 'best behaviour' as was he. I was just explaining my experience.

 

As a WS, when I strayed, he had neglected my emotional needs at that point, but it was my choice to look outside the marriage for them. It was totally on my head. Had I explained how I felt then I would have given him the opportunity to maybe change things, but I didn't. I met someone and I fell for them. Once D-day hit, my husband did EXACTLY what I did in the same position and went all 'best behaviour'....being the 'model' husband. My example may be totally unique of course.

 

Can't say either of us stayed 'model' spouses for that long though!

 

That's because cheating is usually a form of coping by the WS and they need to figure out why that is.

 

It's okay we can agree to disagree. People here can tell me till the cows come home that the BS helped contribute to the cheating, but let me tell you the BS did not hold a gun to their spouses head. That is all on them and if they chose to fix the M by having an A (which I think is a very bad idea) well there is just so much wrong with that. No matter what a BS does not deserved to be cheated on regardless of what is going on. You either leave or get a D. How is having an A going to help a M that was already suffering?

[wanting more]

That's because cheating is usually a form of coping by the WS and they need to figure out why that is.

 

It's okay we can agree to disagree. People here can tell me till the cows come home that the BS helped contribute to the cheating, but let me tell you the BS did not hold a gun to their spouses head. That is all on them and if they chose to fix the M by having an A (which I think is a very bad idea) well there is just so much wrong with that. No matter what a BS does not deserved to be cheated on regardless of what is going on. You either leave or get a D. How is having an A going to help a M that was already suffering?

 

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. It's always easier for someone outside looking in to say leave or D. Sometimes it's not so easy.

 

In no way am I saying having an A is thd thing to do. It was the worst

mistake I've ever made. The only time I think of xMM is with regret

 

And I also agree to disagree with your reply.

[ladydesigner]

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. It's always easier for someone outside looking in to say leave or D. Sometimes it's not so easy.

 

Oh you are preaching to the choir. Trust me if D were easy I probably already would have divorced my WH. I am a fMOW I have too cheated. I just believe there isn't one excuse that could explain why a BS deserves to be cheated on, not one. I had a revenge affair, I specifically went out and inflicted the same kind of pain WH did. Nothing is easy about this crap. I just do not excuse A's anymore including my own.

[HopingAgain]

Rick:

When you started discourse with OW again, you cheated all over again because you did something you knew was deceitful and could possibly lead to the A starting again. Don't be coy as to why you really took candy to her house...you were wanting something way more than what you have stated. But, thank you for writing this as I will refer it to all the spouses who say, "My H or W wants to reconcile after an affair." They need to go into that reconciliation process knowing that remorse doesn't always lead to redemption.

I also hope betrayed spouses read this and learn something about boundaries and commitment from supposed reconciliations. This exact thing is why I would never, ever take back my wife if she had an affair. Integrity isn't something you develop out of fear for what you lose, but out of respect for what you have.

Best,

Grumps

 

Great insight! I agree that this type of post should serve as a cold dose of reality for those thinking about or choosing to reconcile. There are no guarantees in life and the decision to try and repair a marriage after infidelity shouldn't be taken without considering all the risks.

[BetrayedH]

I think it's time to divorce your wife, Rick.

 

You can't even admit that you were open to restarting the affair again. What exactly do you think secretly contacting your AP thru secret FB accounts is?

 

Free your wife.

[bentleychic]

Good luck, man. It kind of sounds like if your MOW was open to a relationship again (but only if out in the open, not as an A), that you would have left your W for her, from your later comments. That concerns me for both your W *and* you. Even if the MOW is not available to you, I beg you not to waste your AND your W's lives by being in an unauthentic marriage/relationship. You may feel obligated to stay in it because she has put up with your indiscretions and you've been working towards R for the past 2 years. However, I would imagine she would be happier to have you leave NOW if you are not truly committed to it, rather than waste even more years trying to make a situation work that you're not both 100% committed to.

[thecharade]

Oh, Rick. I feel your frustrated/defeated/hurt tone. I relate to it myself. I don't have a lot of background info, but I wondered . . .

 

Were you ever serious about being with MOW?

 

Did her BS also find out?

 

Why did she agree to contact months ago and then go cold? And how did you feel about it?

 

Is she someone "wonderful enough" to be with in real life?

 

Did your MOW want to leave her M for you, and did you shoot down the idea? Is it possible she's shutting you out for this reason?

 

There are maaaannnnyyyyy furious BSs replying to you, but as a MOW myself (until one year ago), I feel I can relate to your efforts and confusion and pain and the fact that getting someone out of your heart is not simply a matter of will. (All broken-hearted people wish it were so easy!) Your post describes what many, many MM feel post A, and because these men "don't hate" their wives, as my xMM put it, they juggle all of these emotions and stuff all of this pain for a very long time. For the sake of everyone else. My xMM is most certainly going through the exact emotions you are, feeling hurt (probably crushed) over my distance. But I know he does not have the stomach for divorce, so I stay away. I also must protect my own heart.

 

I hope you figure this out. Your unhappiness comes through loud and clear. Good luck with your W or your OW, so long as you figure this out and eliminate the triangle for good.

[bentleychic]

(I'm an OW, but I feel strongly about certain things and speak my mind on them. LOL)

[Journee]

Good luck, man. It kind of sounds like if your MOW was open to a relationship again (but only if out in the open, not as an A), that you would have left your W for her, from your later comments. That concerns me for both your W *and* you. Even if the MOW is not available to you, I beg you not to waste your AND your W's lives by being in an unauthentic marriage/relationship. You may feel obligated to stay in it because she has put up with your indiscretions and you've been working towards R for the past 2 years. However, I would imagine she would be happier to have you leave NOW if you are not truly committed to it, rather than waste even more years trying to make a situation work that you're not both 100% committed to.

 

Yes, OP was willing to discuss the terms of MOW and his relationship if it were to be no longer be secret.

 

I'm not sure what's worse. Broken contact complete with gifts and fake FB accounts or contemplating deserting the BS after false reconciliation. Both happened in this case.

[ComingInHot]

quote of the decade by Grumpy!! " 9 Posts: 1,873

 

Quote: Originally Posted by Grumpybutfun Integrity isn't something you develop out of fear for what you lose, but out of respect for what you have."

 

:D:D

[Journee]

Great insight! I agree that this type of post should serve as a cold dose of reality for those thinking about or choosing to reconcile. There are no guarantees in life and the decision to try and repair a marriage after infidelity shouldn't be taken without considering all the risks.

 

 

 

Any relationship for that matter. This can happen to anyone. It's clear from reading this site that people can keep up the facade of being faithful for years and years. No one is safe it seems.

[Afishwithabike]

Oh, Rick. I feel your frustrated/defeated/hurt tone. I relate to it myself. I don't have a lot of background info, but I wondered . . .

 

Were you ever serious about being with MOW?

 

Did her BS also find out?

 

Why did she agree to contact months ago and then go cold? And how did you feel about it?

 

Is she someone "wonderful enough" to be with in real life?

 

Did your MOW want to leave her M for you, and did you shoot down the idea? Is it possible she's shutting you out for this reason?

 

I'm not a betrayed spouse or the cheater, and I can answer two of these questions from memory because I've followed Rick's threads over the years.

 

The male BS doesn't know. I think the OW had no fallout from the affair. I think she's doing well in terms of material goods. I think the OW got some kind of new car from her spouse around the time she broke up with Rick.

 

The OW dumped Rick. She didn't want to leave her marriage for Rick. I remember reading a lot of his posts where he ruminated about why she dumped him, how could she be so callous, does she think about him and so on.

 

Rick - honestly I think you get triggered every time you go to pick up/drop off at school. IF for whatever reason you and your wife don't divorce, you really shouldn't be doing the pickup/drop off at school. So many of your threads focused on seeing xOW at the school. You'll never get past this as long as you keep seeing her on a regular basis at the school.

 

Honestly I think you and your wife should divorce. I remember her losing weight, getting down to a tiny size, after D-Day. I think you even said she was hardly eating because she was so concerned about her appearance. To think of all that she's done to make you happy and then you do this....

Let her go. She can find some man who will appreciate her and you'll find someone for whom you can be monogamous.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Afishwithabike

[peaksandvalleys]

Fully understand the anger and no, I guess you misunderstand as far as considering another affair...I don't want that, someone said I was open to just jump right in and I was trying to say that if anything was to develop there would have to be talks and discussions as to what this was and where it would go..... basically if it was going to be another secretive relationship I wouldn't want it... that's what I was saying, or trying to... but it's not going that way and Im back on track with my life.

 

I never claimed to be perfect, I knew I'd get steamrolled on here and that's fine, I've come a long way since i first came here and yet I haven't. I'm a broken guy, something in me is screwed up but I'm aware of it and I won't deny my screw ups....this one is on me and me alone.

 

If anything, it has helped me move forward and based on all that has happened, much easier to put it behind me.

 

Someone said high school drama.... couldn't agree more.

 

 

I wonder is this what my husband did to me? Did he do things like this behind my back and then lead me to believe we were really married? I guess I have to appreciate your candor.

[BetrayedH]

This is why people quit jobs and move states away. Even limited contact is a trigger for both APs and that's beside the disrespect for the BS.

 

Two more years wasted.

[Cali408]

Rick your idea of closure was wanting to see if it was as good now as it was 2 years ago. It's not, trust me. Now delete the Facebook account and go to the back door again. Good luck

[PhoenixRise]

Rick

 

I always believed that your wife forgave you way too easy. I think she saw what she perceived as an emotional trainwreck in the OW (even Stevie Wonder could see the OW was not that serious about you) and she let you off the hook for your betrayal too easy.

 

You didn't really have to earn her trust back to stay in the marriage. You didn't have to self reflect and become a better man to stay in the marriage. You didn't have to earn her respect back as a man or prove to her that you are still worthy of being her life partner.

 

AND because she didn't require you to do any of these things, you didn't.

 

You stayed the same selfish, dishonest man that you were when you started the affair in the first place.

 

What she didn't understand is that it is really easy for a man with no emotional integrity to sit there in the comfort and security of their established life and relationship to take love that is freely offered from his spouse and pine away for the "great love" of the one that got away. It is really easy. Easy because it doesn't require anything from you.

 

You get to sit there in your marriage and pretend to be repentant loving husband AND you get to cast your self in the role of star crossed lover and leave candy outside OW door and spend mental time and energy analyzing the minutia of the way she turns away when you approach. All from the security of your marriage.

 

I wish your wife had demolished that security and not allowed you to take her presence in your life for granted. I think if your wife had thrown dishes at your head and packed your clothes and put them out on the lawn from the beginning, any relationship you had with this OW would have blown up in your face by now and you would be alone.

 

And Rick, you deserve to be alone, even more, you need to be alone. I hope for your sake you can grow as a person and as a man.

[ladydesigner]

I wish your wife had demolished that security and not allowed you to take her presence in your life for granted. I think if your wife had thrown dishes at your head and packed your clothes and put them out on the lawn from the beginning, any relationship you had with this OW would have blown up in your face by now and you would be alone.

 

I agree. If every BS followed this they would have their answer either way. You cannot nice a spouse back into the M. I learned that one the hard way.

 

PhoenixRise... you should have seen the amount of dishes I had broken. I even put a trash can over my WH's head. Kicked him out numerous times, I left numerous times. Nothing like shock value . If my WH is stupid enough again he deserves any damn drama coming his way.

[BetrayedH]

. If my WH is stupid enough again he deserves any damn drama coming his way.

 

Or dishes, for that matter.

[waytogo]

Let me clarify, I know it's a game of sorts, but I'm not really a game player. Speak what's on your mind, right wrong or indifferent.

 

Up until now, the reconciliation has been honest, it's been a work in progress, never perfect but how can I not think of the other woman when she's either brought up by my W at least once a week or simply because I see the damn woman at the school our kids go to. There are things I miss about her, I've always been honest about that, but not all my thoughts are pure, there was a lot of anger and despite what I wrote, I was extremely guarded when talking to her, and I would not have jumped right back into the affair, even if she was willing, that would have required a big big long discussion and an idea of why, what, how and where it was all gonna go. I think like a lot of folks, they wanted to know if the other person actually cared and no matter how much anyone says it doesn't matter, for many, it does.

 

In a way, what I wanted was some sort of validation, closure, an end, and where Im sitting now, I got it. Will my M survive, don't know for sure, we aren't ending, it's been a long rough two years.... it wont be easy now either.... but .... it's a work in progress and it's me that needs fixin'.

 

 

In fairness, there were pages after this post and this probably has been addresses. There may not be enough times...

 

How can you not think of the damn woman when your W brings her up twice a week?!? You think your W wants to think of this woman. What is the only reason, again, the ONLY reason your W thinks of this woman at all.

 

For you to start the affair again and puke, puke puke. You want a guarantee that you would get some other life to do this. All relationships have risks of not being what we hoped. That you are still thinking this way while with a W that was willing to R with you is proof she is one person not getting what she wanted from the commitment she made.

[UpwardForward]

My opinion Rick: It is the wife's position in the M to be loving, long suffering, patient. But as head of the household, it is your position to love and embrace/cherish your wife and to not look elsewhere.

[thecharade]

The point that is lost over and over and over again is that people who leave As and stay M often keep their love for their AP. They hold it close to the vest, a personal secret. Everyone? Of course not. Not all As are the same. But many WS simply lie about the feelings for their AP ending. (Why not lie? We don't plan on acting on the love. The potential negative consequences keep us firmly in our Ms.) Anybody in real life that asks about my AP hears, "Nope, I'm fine. Totally over it."

 

That's why MPs sometimes post, to tell everyone reading that As do have to end, but if there were very strong feelings, those feelings remain. I know my feelings will never end. His won't either. But we are done and working hard at improving the lives we already have. It's the easier and more responsible path.

[whichwayisup]

This all set me back, not to ground zero, but it opened up wounds I wish I had left closed.... Like everyone else, I have a choice, wallow, or move forward and survive.

Haven't read anything else other than your opening post yet, but did you tell your wife? Confess to her about the contact? If you didn't, you really should. You owe your wife the truth. You took a chance of losing everything (again) and ruined all that hard work you did for 2 years, working hard to get through it all. All for what? To 'feel' again with exMW, whom only reached out for an ego feed, knowing full well the A would be an EA/flirtation and not likely either of you divorcing to be together!

 

I hope you continue to shut the door and never look back.