Do people know what they're getting into when moving in together?

[Els]

To get a slightly more sensible idea of how the odds are of cohabitation resulting into marriage, instead of sappy stories of individuals who waited x amount of years before realizing their boyfriends were never going to marry them:

 

I think there are quite a few issues that play into this belief, really.

 

The first being societal perception of marriage. Most of the people responding here are from the USA, I think, where marriage does seem to be commonly perceived as the end-all-be-all of relationships. On the other hand, in some other countries, live-in relationships are considered a relationship status in and of themselves, sometimes even with legal ramifications/benefits.

 

The second being the fact that, well... some women really do move in hoping that it will make their boyfriends desire to tie the knot sooner than he would otherwise. Why they would assume so, I have no idea - but yeah, if that is what a woman is aiming for, she shouldn't cohabitate for that reason - it obviously doesn't! And if she feels that cohabitation without marriage equals to her being taken advantage of, she shouldn't cohabitate at all, period.

 

That doesn't change the fact that some of us women are just the same as you - we view de facto Rs as a natural stage of a R in and of itself.

 

I also agree that moving in together too quickly is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...

[man_in_the_box]

I think there are quite a few issues that play into this belief, really.

 

Yeah, there are probably a couple of reasons why people have such an aversion for cohabitation before marriage but it appears to be based on unfounded personnal bias and preconceived notions.

 

Oh, wait this is Loveshack... I sometimes forget.

[carhill]

For myself, the 'aversion' is a personal preference, kind of like a lady who declines to date me due to being less successful professionally or monetarily. I don't share my hard won living space and life work with random females. Simple as that.

[man_in_the_box]

While I'd hardly call my girlfriend of five years random - I have nothing against people who prefer getting married before cohabitation. It's just the generalizations that men who cohabitate before marriage must be out to exploit their partners or whatever that strikes a wrong chord with me. I have not seen any substantial evidence that it is the case.

[Am4Real]

One of the most interesting threads I've read in sometime.

[Nyla]

When my husband asked me to move in with him, he told me that I shouldn't do so unless I was ready to marry him. We were engaged within two months of moving in together, after more than a year of dating.

[kendallk]

Yeah, there are probably a couple of reasons why people have such an aversion for cohabitation before marriage but it appears to be based on unfounded personnal bias and preconceived notions.

 

Oh, wait this is Loveshack... I sometimes forget.

 

I read a study that found 75% of marriages where the couple lived together first, the man felt pressured into getting married. They controlled for those who discussed marriage first too. Studies have found moving in together, with marriage in mind, stalls the proposal too. Men do like the milk for free. Divorce rates are also higher for those that cohabitate...because those that do this are less committed. Science don't lie. I don't base anything I say on here on personal stories...I majored in psychology and research in college and what I learned there, especially about social issues, influences me more than personal stories. The reason Ive stated on this site many times that men are more shallow and sex obsessed than women, and that women are valued first and foremost for their looks, is because a ****load of research backs me up.

Edited October 17, 2013 by kendallk

[Nyla]

I read a study that found 75% of marriages where the couple lived together first, the man felt pressured into getting married. They controlled for those who discussed marriage first too. Studies have found moving in together, with marriage in mind, stalls the proposal too. Men do like the milk for free. Divorce rates are also higher for those that cohabitate...because those that do this are less committed. Science don't lie. I don't base anything I say on here on personal stories...I majored in psychology and research in college and what I learned there, especially about social issues, influences me more than personal stories. The reason Ive stated on this site many times that men are more shallow and sex obsessed than women, and that women are valued first and foremost for their looks, is because a ****load of research backs me up.

 

I guess science must have been a lie for my husband and I! I'm sure we aren't the only married couple who were engaged soon after moving in together.

 

I agree that women are valued mainly for their looks. It is the reason sexy women who are terrible people inside have lots of men after them. I have a cousin who was always jealous of me. Part of the reason is that I always had no trouble attracting men's attention, whereas she has a harder time because her face is rather masculine, her voice is deep and raspy and she is very tall.

[man_in_the_box]

I read a study that found 75% of marriages where the couple lived together first, the man felt pressured into getting married. They controlled for those who discussed marriage first too.

 

Link please. Out of scepticism.

 

Studies have found moving in together, with marriage in mind, stalls the proposal too.

 

Link please. Out of curiosity.

 

Divorce rates are also higher for those that cohabitate

 

Already knew.

 

Men do like the milk for free. because those that do this are less committed. Science don't lie. I don't base anything I say on here on personal stories...I majored in psychology and research in college and what I learned there, especially about social issues, influences me more than personal stories. The reason Ive stated on this site many times that men are more shallow and sex obsessed than women, and that women are valued first and foremost for their looks, is because a ****load of research backs me up.

 

Mysandric garbage which I'd rather skip to spare some time to read what you actually had to say and how you support it.

Edited October 17, 2013 by man_in_the_box

[Els]

I read a study that found 75% of marriages where the couple lived together first, the man felt pressured into getting married. They controlled for those who discussed marriage first too. Studies have found moving in together, with marriage in mind, stalls the proposal too. Men do like the milk for free. Divorce rates are also higher for those that cohabitate...because those that do this are less committed. Science don't lie. I don't base anything I say on here on personal stories...I majored in psychology and research in college and what I learned there, especially about social issues, influences me more than personal stories. The reason Ive stated on this site many times that men are more shallow and sex obsessed than women, and that women are valued first and foremost for their looks, is because a ****load of research backs me up.

 

Divorce rates in the West are astronomically higher than divorce rates in Asian, Middle Eastern, and African countries, too.

 

Do you feel that means that people in the West just have crappy uncommitted marriages? Or... could there possibly be other factors, such as the fact that people in the West are more liberal, less traditional, and less afraid to leave a marriage that genuinely needs leaving? See any correlations to people who cohabitate?

 

I don't know about you, but if there's one thing 'science' has taught me, it's that you don't blindly accept statistics without giving thought to cause and correlation.

 

Regardless, I don't really get your arguments. If you find that to YOU, a man who lives with a woman outside of marriage is taking advantage of her - then don't cohabitate. But in your other posts you also seem to be against marriage for women, citing the 'double shift' and the supposed 'facts' that married men take advantage of their wives by letting them share the financial burden and yet do all of the housework? So.... what's left? Should we all be single and let the human race die out?

Edited October 17, 2013 by Elswyth

[kendallk]

I am against marriage. Marriage today is a no win for women. Reasons why:

 

-Studies have found that over 70% of married couples where BOTH people work full time, the woman still does by far the vast majority of childcare, housework and so on. Cannot remember the exact statistics but I think the average was women do 70% or more of the total childcare/housework. Also, they have found because men do slightly more housework than their fathers did, that they automatically think it means they do an equal amount with the wife. Men are much more likely to overestimate how much work they do around the house. Google "second shift hypothesis" Women dont like to screw when they are resentful and its one of the biggest reasons for low libido.

-Married men are more likely than married women to cheat when there is nothing wrong with their relationship (over 60% of married men having affairs have a wife they find to be attractive, emotionally satisfying and have frequent sex with) There are married women that cheat (lower numbers than married men however) but they tend to cheat more when something is missing in the relationship. Very few married women cheat on their husband because a fresh dick comes up, they do it more when their husband isn’t satisfying them. (Not condoning cheating, just saying that facts of what studies find). One of my professors made the remark in a class to the men to treat their wife well and they wont stray. Yet, he couldn’t promise the same to us women J because the stats show most married men that cheat simply get bored and cannot pass up fresh pussy when the opportunity arises. There is not a damn thing us women can do about this. Also, our society and the world at large gives many excuses and less judgment for a man to cheat and when a woman does it, shes the devil.

-Studies have shown married men get bored more sexually than married women. Goes along with the last point. Studies show that if things are switched up from time to time sexually in the bedroom women can remain satisfied. They did not find the same with men. Men- really only alleviate their boredom when they get a new woman.

-Studies have found that the majority of men do not think emotional neglect is worth divorcing over. Most think physical abuse is, but emotional neglect is “normal.” Men are not emotional creatures and don’t see the need to maintain an emotional connection when they’ve been with the same woman for a long time. No wonder why Emotional Neglect is the number 1 reason why women cheat.

-Studies have found the longer a man dates a woman, the more emotionally neglectful they become. Not saying women cannot take men for granted, but men are more apt to do so. Studies also find women are the more empathetic gender. Ever wonder why on juries, prosecutors try to get all women? Not a coincidence. Women are more compassionate and forgiving and after government studies found this, the courts adjusted their practices.

 

Our society is still male dominated. Feminism has really helped women get equality for jobs, wages, voting and so on…but socially, not so much. Men get excused far more for exploitative selfish behavior. Studies show women are expected to be the more selfless person in a couple. Both men and women perpetuate this double standard. So not just blaming men for this one. I see it in real life alllll the time. Men who act less selfless are judged way less harshly than a woman who doesn’t. I have a hard time dating personally because most men do not give to their partner what they expect to receive from women. It’s a power thing. Men have ruled over women throughout most of human existence and while being openly misogynistic is not as cool today, this mentality is still ingrained in most men. (Even with the ones I meet that claim to be nice and very caring.)

 

I have no desire to invest in a man who over time will become emotionally neglectful, and no matter what I do, will crave other women and resent screwing the same woman over and over. I see this pattern happen with married couples. The thought of marrying a guy and walking in on him watching porn and feeling justified about it instead of having sex with me, ogling younger women when I am 45 and still in good shape, thinking cheating is no big deal (men show this in their actions towards others and comments all the time even if they don’t cheat), expecting me to be a supermom and the more selfless one…no thanks. I am super independent compared to most women though.

 

Studies have found for decades married men are happier than single men, yet the reverse is found for women. Too much stress for women thats why. Such little return for so much work.

 

Also, when I was 21 I worked at a nursing home at a job that involved talking to people alot. I was astounded at the number of women that told me to wait as long as possible to get married and that for women, you are expected to do so much and put up with much more bullsh**.

Edited October 17, 2013 by kendallk

[man_in_the_box]

Ugh... this thread is about cohabitation before marriage, not why marrying a man is supposedly a bad idea. If I had to go by the statistics I would definitely NOT get married - but that's not how I judge individuals.

[Els]

Soooo... kendal, you are against cohabitation AND marriage, because you feel that both end up with the woman on the losing end. I feel sorry for you that you feel that way, because not all men are the same as the men you speak of, but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Given that, I'm curious as to what you propose women do? Should we all 'turn lesbian', if that were indeed possible? Boycott men and all stay single for the rest of our lives? Mmm?

[Bigcitydreamer]

See I love this someone who is not afraid to speak the cold hard facts. It's unfortunate that this is how things are but it's true. I know this is off topic but I just wanted to say that I think marriage is beneficial to women only in the sense that it allows us to have kids and have "comfort" knowing 2 people will help raise them. Other than that I agree with you, not much benefit to marriage for women. Men like to think its only them that do worse off in marriage. If anything they have it made because women are doing way more than 50% of the work.

 

 

I am against marriage. Marriage today is a no win for women. Reasons why:

 

-Studies have found that over 70% of married couples where BOTH people work full time, the woman still does by far the vast majority of childcare, housework and so on. Cannot remember the exact statistics but I think the average was women do 70% or more of the total childcare/housework. Also, they have found because men do slightly more housework than their fathers did, that they automatically think it means they do an equal amount with the wife. Men are much more likely to overestimate how much work they do around the house. Google "second shift hypothesis" Women dont like to screw when they are resentful and its one of the biggest reasons for low libido.

-Married men are more likely than married women to cheat when there is nothing wrong with their relationship (over 60% of married men having affairs have a wife they find to be attractive, emotionally satisfying and have frequent sex with) There are married women that cheat (lower numbers than married men however) but they tend to cheat more when something is missing in the relationship. Very few married women cheat on their husband because a fresh dick comes up, they do it more when their husband isn’t satisfying them. (Not condoning cheating, just saying that facts of what studies find). One of my professors made the remark in a class to the men to treat their wife well and they wont stray. Yet, he couldn’t promise the same to us women J because the stats show most married men that cheat simply get bored and cannot pass up fresh pussy when the opportunity arises. There is not a damn thing us women can do about this. Also, our society and the world at large gives many excuses and less judgment for a man to cheat and when a woman does it, shes the devil.

-Studies have shown married men get bored more sexually than married women. Goes along with the last point. Studies show that if things are switched up from time to time sexually in the bedroom women can remain satisfied. They did not find the same with men. Men- really only alleviate their boredom when they get a new woman.

-Studies have found that the majority of men do not think emotional neglect is worth divorcing over. Most think physical abuse is, but emotional neglect is “normal.” Men are not emotional creatures and don’t see the need to maintain an emotional connection when they’ve been with the same woman for a long time. No wonder why Emotional Neglect is the number 1 reason why women cheat.

-Studies have found the longer a man dates a woman, the more emotionally neglectful they become. Not saying women cannot take men for granted, but men are more apt to do so. Studies also find women are the more empathetic gender. Ever wonder why on juries, prosecutors try to get all women? Not a coincidence. Women are more compassionate and forgiving and after government studies found this, the courts adjusted their practices.

 

Our society is still male dominated. Feminism has really helped women get equality for jobs, wages, voting and so on…but socially, not so much. Men get excused far more for exploitative selfish behavior. Studies show women are expected to be the more selfless person in a couple. Both men and women perpetuate this double standard. So not just blaming men for this one. I see it in real life alllll the time. Men who act less selfless are judged way less harshly than a woman who doesn’t. I have a hard time dating personally because most men do not give to their partner what they expect to receive from women. It’s a power thing. Men have ruled over women throughout most of human existence and while being openly misogynistic is not as cool today, this mentality is still ingrained in most men. (Even with the ones I meet that claim to be nice and very caring.)

 

I have no desire to invest in a man who over time will become emotionally neglectful, and no matter what I do, will crave other women and resent screwing the same woman over and over. I see this pattern happen with married couples. The thought of marrying a guy and walking in on him watching porn and feeling justified about it instead of having sex with me, ogling younger women when I am 45 and still in good shape, thinking cheating is no big deal (men show this in their actions towards others and comments all the time even if they don’t cheat), expecting me to be a supermom and the more selfless one…no thanks. I am super independent compared to most women though.

 

Studies have found for decades married men are happier than single men, yet the reverse is found for women. Too much stress for women thats why. Such little return for so much work.

 

Also, when I was 21 I worked at a nursing home at a job that involved talking to people alot. I was astounded at the number of women that told me to wait as long as possible to get married and that for women, you are expected to do so much and put up with much more bullsh**.

[miss_jaclynrae]

Hey Kendallk? Care to link those "stats" you speak about?

 

Oh and Elswyth is completely right, stats are great, but they do not in any way prove anything. They are NOT cold hard facts in any way shape or form. Not to mention until I see that source, what the sample size was, how the sample was chosen... it is moot.

[Bigcitydreamer]

Why do you need links? Don't you have eyes? Out of all of the couples married or not around you, in how many of those situations do women do most of the work? Out of all of the relationships around me its quite obvious that the women are disadvantaged. You can chose to put your blinders on to suit yourself but women do get the worst deal.

 

I was raised in a completely different environment than what I speak of. My mom made sure everything was equal and both my parents split everything right down the middle. So I assumed this was normal. Once I started dating I could see what was expected of me! For example after working all day is come home and do laundry while he sits on the couch watching tv. It sucks and I don't think it's fair. Women need to take a stand and stop allowin this bs. Oh and after 20 yeàrs of marriage my dad left my mom and found himself a woman to tend on him.

 

Hey Kendallk? Care to link those "stats" you speak about?

 

Oh and Elswyth is completely right, stats are great, but they do not in any way prove anything. They are NOT cold hard facts in any way shape or form. Not to mention until I see that source, what the sample size was, how the sample was chosen... it is moot.

[man_in_the_box]

Why do you need links? Don't you have eyes? Out of all of the couples married or not around you, in how many of those situations do women do most of the work? Out of all of the relationships around me its quite obvious that the women are disadvantaged. You can chose to put your blinders on to suit yourself but women do get the worst deal.

 

Great comeback - if you cannot backup your claims concerning men and women in general then why bother posting them? Nobody cares what you've empirically observed because somebody else will come in and claim to have noticed the opposite.

[miss_jaclynrae]

Why do you need links? Don't you have eyes? Out of all of the couples married or not around you, in how many of those situations do women do most of the work? Out of all of the relationships around me its quite obvious that the women are disadvantaged. You can chose to put your blinders on to suit yourself but women do get the worst deal.

 

I was raised in a completely different environment than what I speak of. My mom made sure everything was equal and both my parents split everything right down the middle. So I assumed this was normal. Once I started dating I could see what was expected of me! For example after working all day is come home and do laundry while he sits on the couch watching tv. It sucks and I don't think it's fair. Women need to take a stand and stop allowin this bs. Oh and after 20 yeàrs of marriage my dad left my mom and found himself a woman to tend on him.

 

Great comeback - if you cannot backup your claims concerning men and women in general then why bother posting them? Nobody cares what you've empirically observed because somebody else will come in and claim to have noticed the opposite.

 

Exactly. I have eyes, and those who I see that are married and have been for some time, everything is shared. Each partner brings something to the table, and they do the things they do out of love for the other person.

 

Sounds to me like you have just had ****ty luck with men.

The mister and I have equal responsibilities in our relationship. There was a time when he was working and I wasn't, so guess what? I did more housework than usual while he was at work all day. That was what I wanted to do, just like how before I wasn't working he helped a ton around the house, because HE wanted to.

When two people put 100% in, things work magnificently.

 

 

Sorry that you have had ****ty role models and men in your life, but I can tell you right now, that is NOT a representation of the whole world.

 

 

PS. Thanks for not providing those stats, they automatically rule you out as someone whose word I would take.

[Els]

Why do you need links? Don't you have eyes? Out of all of the couples married or not around you, in how many of those situations do women do most of the work?

 

Not in the majority of my friends' Rs... and certainly not in mine. *shrugs* There are a few that fit the description, but they serve as cautionary tales against 'that sort' of R, not Rs in general.

[Bigcitydreamer]

That's ok, I've long ago ruled out your opinion on things! Your the one that married and divorced young and are now with a man who is quite a bit older than you? You seem like the kind who choses to live in a fairy land full of roses and love. I don't roll that way. I'm a realist. Just because I've had a ****ty situation with my family doesn't mean I'm using that one example to base my views on. No it took a lot longer than that for me to become jaded to men and their intentions!

 

I refuse to believe that you don't know what I'm talking about when I talk about women doing more work.. It's not that far of a stretch I see it all the time. Yes there are the odd cases where it's not like that, it seems like the type b men are more likely to lend a helping hand more than when it's being demanded of them. As another example, my friend just got married. She's a teacher and is 28. Her husband is also a teacher and is 32. At the night of her bachelorette she was saying how she will strive to be a perfect housewife but she finds it hard because she works as many hours as him. Do you think he is at his party saying "I'm going to strive to be a perfect house husband and take care of my wife"?

 

Like I said, there are men who see things equally but much less that do. Maybe it does have a bit to do with my experience. Seems kind of odd that every person I have dated expects the same thing from

Me though. Right from the chartered accountant to the underwater welder. They all wanted me to cook and do their laundry even though I worked as many hours as them.

 

Exactly. I have eyes, and those who I see that are married and have been for some time, everything is shared. Each partner brings something to the table, and they do the things they do out of love for the other person.

 

Sounds to me like you have just had ****ty luck with men.

The mister and I have equal responsibilities in our relationship. There was a time when he was working and I wasn't, so guess what? I did more housework than usual while he was at work all day. That was what I wanted to do, just like how before I wasn't working he helped a ton around the house, because HE wanted to.

When two people put 100% in, things work magnificently.

 

 

Sorry that you have had ****ty role models and men in your life, but I can tell you right now, that is NOT a representation of the whole world.

 

 

PS. Thanks for not providing those stats, they automatically rule you out as someone whose word I would take.

[Els]

Do you think he is at his party saying "I'm going to strive to be a perfect house husband and take care of my wife"?

 

As a matter of fact, when listening in to guy-talk, many of them talked about how they were worried that they were not earning enough to support their would-be family in the near future.

 

You're really talking to the wrong guys.

[Bigcitydreamer]

Yeah I am going to keep looking for someone who sees me as a partner instead of just someone to help him have a better, easier life. I have just yet to see it and I don't know why!

 

Missjaclynrae- I am sorry for bringing up your marriage and what not. Was pretty out of line and doesn't have anything to do with the topic.

 

It just bothers me when women don't acknowledge that the situation I speak of does happen a lot. No one goes on about how men do more house work. That's because it very rarely happens.

 

I still think women will do more than men in a marriage but I hope to find a relationship that I feel is equally beneficial to the both of us.

[Radu]

BCD, sounds like your filter is set on only seeing the bad and never the good.

Being a cynic is not that bad at times, but not in this case.

 

There are men on this forum who have or had this exact type of issue, except that they were seeing lying cheating manipulative b*tches.

 

Maybe it will work out with the couple you referred to.

I can pretty much guarantee that he was not thinking of how to be the perfect 'house'-husband, but he was probably thinking of how to be the perfect husband in other ways.

 

As a matter of fact, when listening in to guy-talk, many of them talked about how they were worried that they were not earning enough to support their would-be family in the near future.

 

You're really talking to the wrong guys.

 

I was going to say just that.

[Els]

It just bothers me when women don't acknowledge that the situation I speak of does happen a lot. No one goes on about how men do more house work. That's because it very rarely happens.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that the situation you're talking about 'doesn't happen'. Lots of crap 'happens' in relationships, to both genders. We're simply saying that it's not really sufficient grounds to make blanket statements about all relationships and how women should stay away from that.

[Sanman]

As a matter of fact, when listening in to guy-talk, many of them talked about how they were worried that they were not earning enough to support their would-be family in the near future.

 

You're really talking to the wrong guys.

 

I've had this exact conversation with some of my close friends. I think all of us want our wives (wife to be in my case) to have the option to take some time off when a baby comes even for a little while, but it can be hard to do that given how we are all used to living on two incomes. My best friend financially supports his wife while she goes to school and does most of the housework. Sometimes, I think he does too much. In my relationship, we split household tasks pretty much 50/50 when we are doing them together. We both work, so it is fair. It really depends on the men you talk to. My best friends are great guys, extremely good, reliable, helpful friends, and wonderful spouses. None of us are perfect, but all of us pull our weight. Maybe you have not been looking for the right type of men.