Ever felt befuddled and a sense of the surreal at the end of a relationship?

[Zapbasket]

Have you ever found yourself, at the end of a relationship, totally befuddled as to what dynamic you were in for the relationship's duration?

 

My 3.5-year relationship ended two days shy of five weeks ago and I feel like I'm staggering around going, "What the heck?" "Where did the past three years go?" "How was so much time spent arguing about...wait, what were we always arguing about again?" "Was I even IN a relationship; was the guy ever REALLY committed to me?"

 

Sorry if this ends up being long because I may have to vent and ramble a bit. I feel like I just came out of a time warp, or am entering one--I can't tell which.

 

My relationship always felt like a lot of work and I felt dissatisfied and disrespected much of the time. But now that it's over, in comparison to a lot of other relationships you read or hear about, what, really, did I have to be so dissatisfied about, and why did I so often feel disrespected? After all, he called me every day, he showed up when he said he was going to, he gave me thoughtful presents and cards, he said, "I love you" every day, and he helped me with things such as changing high-up light bulbs, helping me after my major knee surgery, smashing huge spiders in my house. He listened to me, and when we argued, he always showed up to make up.

 

But he could be really irritable, and when he was he spoke derisively to me, and I really hated it. He also avoided any talk about the future, even after two years into the relationship, which is enough of a problem on its own but then he also had no future plans for himself, whatsoever. That confused me because he always spoke about how much he hated his present line of work. He often dismissed my feelings by accusing me of "making a big deal" out of something he considered minor, or telling me I am oversensitive. Frequently he misinterpreted something benign I had said and would bark at me, and then when I reacted with surprise and hurt, he would say in this contemptuous voice, "There you go escalating everything as usual."

 

It seemed pretty bad, because without talk of the future of any kind or a sense at all of where he wanted to be a year or more from now, the relationship stagnated and frustration was high. But now that it's over it all feels like it's not that big a deal, after all.

 

I don't know what I'm getting at, just feeling this weird sense and trying somehow to account for it, and trying to find out whether others could relate.

[Philosoraptor]

Sounds like you're getting a more objective view of things and being able to see them from the outside. You were attached to this person, but as the attachment fades you can start to see what you lost really isn't as big of a loss as you once believed. What you really are doing is gaining yourself back here and the opportunity to move on and find more happiness in your world.

[Zapbasket]

I don't think I'm there yet, Philosoraptor, because I struggle to decide once and for all that I'm better off putting the whole thing in the past and firmly moving on. It doesn't help that just four weeks after breaking up, we both had our birthdays. Mine was first, and he emailed me on Facebook, wishing me well. I then SAW him on his birthday, at a restaurant where his family was taking him out to dinner, and to say it was awkward would be an understatement. I wasn't going to contact him on his birthday, not to be spiteful, but because I felt contact was too painful, especially shallow, Facebook "friend" Facebook contact.

 

But I felt it was the "big" thing to do after seeing him there with his parents and brother. I didn't expect to hear back from him but I got this:

 

Hi GC, I truly appreciate the birthday wish. I had a nice, relaxing day after spending the weekend helping a friend with his home in _____. At least we topped it off with a _____'s game since he has season tickets. Anyways, it was a nice to see you and you look great, as to be expected; and it looked like you had an amazing time in ____--very cool. Best, K

 

So of course I went into a tailspin. "Best"? "Nice to see you"? How can he be so flip just five weeks out? It hurts because according to his mother, he's been having a hard time. So why would it kill him to say he misses me, something, anything to suggest I mattered?

 

I know I shouldn't care. But I anticipate many more chance encounters out and about town, since we live a mile away from each other and in a very small town. I've never had to deal with this before. There's no way right now it's "nice" to see each other; he looked miserable when he saw me on his birthday; and I don't want to have these affable vacant interchanges around town when the truth is that it's killing me inside and every time I see him or hear from him it sets me back. I'm only open to his wanting to TALK with me; anything less just hurts too much.

 

He's also on my Facebook and I can't seem to stop myself from checking up on him. I know if I unfriend him I'll still do it.

 

I keep trying to surmount it all, but then things like this happen and it makes a hard journey that much harder.

[Jim305]

GreenCove, what you're experiencing sounds very normal to me. Note that "best" is just a traditional way to sign yourself at the end of a letter - I use it a lot for people who are closer than colleagues but not family, and "Love, K" or "Yours truly, K" would have been inappropriate for him to use. Actually, his not sounded very healthy & mature. Your wanting to talk to him suggests you want him back, which is also a normal feeling (I might be feeling it soon, too), but if you do, indeed, want him back, I'd tell him so. Because maybe what you're doing now is regretting overreacting to something he did or otherwise attaching too much importance to it - you didn't see this thing as insignificant then, but you do now. Maybe I'm wrong about that; I don't know your situation. Following him on Facebook, however, is not in your interest - that will prevent you from moving on.

 

Philosoraptor is right, you're just trying to find your footing, now. Break-ups are hard as hell, it takes what seems like forever to get over them. He probably is miserable, as you heard he is, he was just trying to put on a good face, be adult, be civil - don't take that as his not missing you. He can't say he misses you if he really wants the relationship to stay over with, even if he misses you almost more than he can bear, because he doesn't want to confuse you or send you mixed signals.

 

Again, though, if you really want him back, tell him. If you did something wrong or bad that caused the break-up, and now you want to be back together, then apologize to him. If you agree that the relationship should be over, you just miss all the good things about it, well, that's normal, too, but if that's the case, then try to move forward, do other things with other people, be open to a different guy who might approach you or even approach him (if you want to & are ready to). Basically, focus away from your ex & toward the present & the future - think what you can do for yourself now to feel better. And keep good people around you! Good luck!

[Zapbasket]

Thanks for the thoughts, Jim305. I think what I feel is just utterly confused, about all of it. Most of all, my own feelings about it all.

 

My feelings have run the gamut. It was a bad relationship. It was a bad relationship only because we both had so much ill luck befall us. We had a connection. We have major disconnections. His mother is wonderful. His mother is way too enmeshed with her son. His irritability is not something I can deal with. His irritability is not such a big deal. He doesn't seem committed to me or the relationship. He shows up every day, calls when he says he will, does nice things for me.

 

ANd on, and on. I keep doubting myself, and I don't know why. All I can say I guess is thank God I am in therapy right now so that I can have a hope of sorting this out.

 

My therapist confuses me, though, because he is pretty adamant that I should NOT be in this relationship. It wouldn't be weird that he opines this, except that he is also seeing my ex for individual therapy. He told me in the last session that I keep seeking out inferior men who lack the confidence to meet me halfway in the relationship, said that K, my ex, was inferior and I was superior. And that's well and good for me in one sense, but shouldn't he refrain from saying things like that when he's also seeing K? It makes me wonder what he tells K about me in my sessions: "GC is a b*tch / difficult / codependent / _____."

 

I really hope better times start to come, and with it, and work on myself, some clarity.

[heartshaped]

I believe that what you are feeling is perfectly normal. You ended the relationship because it was the best thing for you, but K was obviously someone you loved and you are looking back on your relationship and time with him fondly. There's nothing wrong with that, but honestly, you know this relationship was never going to go anywhere and was not working for you. Your needs weren't being met.

 

Also, I would change therapists. I think him seeing both you and K sort of colors his judgment. I also don't agree with therapists much who give such firm advice as you should or should not be in a relationship.

[Zapbasket]

Also, I would change therapists. I think him seeing both you and K sort of colors his judgment.

 

I've wondered about this, too. Why specifically do you think seeing both of us colors his judgment? In one sense, he has more objective information about my relationship with K BECAUSE he's seeing us both, no? But in another sense, it seems he has a bias against K in this relationship and toward me. Which makes me wonder whether when talking with K he articulates a bias toward K and against me. He basically has said that K was not good enough for me--e.g., when he said that I choose "inferior men." How can I trust that to K he's not saying that I'm inferior somehow, or not a good partner for him?

 

I said that to my therapist in my last session: "How do I know you're not saying the same thing to K about me that you say to me about him?" And he replied, "I'm not." I feel as you do about this:

 

I also don't agree with therapists much who give such firm advice as you should or should not be in a relationship.

 

But then again, if he really has reasons why he feels strongly that I should NOT be with K., then I do want to know. I do feel that no one can really measure, on the outside, how deep the love and attachment between two people goes, how they might grow and change, how important the relationship was to each person, etc.

 

I fear that we are seeing a therapist who perhaps is tearing us apart? I mean, we originally started out with him with the idea that we would eventually begin seeing him as a couple. And then we never got to that point, and my therapist had nothing to say about that, as in he never tried to encourage me--and I presume he didn't try to encourage K, as well--to reach out to K and at least try a few sessions before ending it completely. Wouldn't a couples counselor feel some need to do that?

 

Thanks for your thoughts, Heartshaped.

[Zapbasket]

Okay. I just need to type this out for others' thoughts, to soothe my muddled mind.

 

I sought out therapy for myself back in June after breaking up with K and then, a week later, asking for us to get back together because I didn't want to lose him and perhaps we had not tried everything, like counseling. I wanted help from a therapist because of the many contradictory feelings the relationship had sparked in me from its start, and my inability to work through those feelings within myself, and within the relationship, to be able to move forward one way or other.

 

The therapist was willing to see us for couples counseling but, he said, he always prefers to see each person individually for a period of time first.

 

So I started therapy in mid-June, and K began seeing this therapist soon after. For a little over a month, things were much better between us. I think we both felt hopeful, like we'd just dodged a bullet (we almost broke up but managed to pull back together), and grateful for finally getting help for frustrating situations in our lives beyond our relationship (and that, I think, adversely affected our relationship over the years).

 

And then, the last weekend in July, we got in another of our fights. It began on the phone when I was venting to him about the lack of job and career prospects in our town and how I keep getting turned down for stuff for which I'm overqualified, to boot. I started to cry and vented, "Sometimes I just feel like this place is full of losers." He got defensive and argued with me, and I got frustrated because I was just venting. The argument escalated and then we met in person and though we discussed breaking up, neither of us wanted to do it.

 

My mother came to visit for two weeks about a week later. I had told K that on this visit, my mom and I might need to spend more time just the two of us, because she wanted to talk with me about her moving out of the house in which I grew up, and I wanted her input on what I should do given my job situation where I live is so inadequate, I can't just pick up and move, and K avoids discussing the future with me.

 

So even though K and I chatted on the phone every day, as we usually do, during those two weeks, I didn't see much of him. He came over a few times and we all celebrated my mom's birthday, and I had him over to dinner the last weekend my mom was here.

 

And then. My mom pulled him aside while I cleaned up the kitchen (they were outside on my patio), and asked him why nothing had happened seven months after he had asked her for permission to ask me to marry him back in January (my mom came when I had knee surgery). And he said to her, "I'm lost; I'm a spinning compass; I can't take on any responsibility right now; Green Cove doesn't belong here--she needs to be in a place where her talents are recognized; I do love GC; etc."

 

After K left that evening, my mother told me what K said and told me, "Honey, it doesn't sound like he has any intention of marrying you any time soon, or of marrying, period. I really think you need to leave."

 

I was so upset by what she was telling me, and by what he said to my mother, that I drove over to his house that second. I confronted him. A huge, huge argument ensued where we both said very hurtful things to one another. We were up until 3 a.m. and somehow we made up, apologized to one another, etc. He claimed he didn't mean what he said to my mother in the way she and I took it. I asked him how else we were supposed to take it. He didn't have an answer.

 

A few days later, after my mother left, K and I went out to dinner. I told him I was thinking of taking a trip for a few days to San Francisco, to contemplate looking for jobs there and moving there. I said it didn't represent any kind of decision to stay or go from this place; I was just doing research. He said, "I wish we could do these kinds of things together." I said, "Look. I've been trying for well over a year now to discuss this kind of thing with you. You kept putting me off, and now I'm facing being unemployed or severely underemployed here, and I have to look into options, and it's to a point now where I can't wait for you, however much I might want us to do this together." He said he understood.

 

And then, three days later when I was at his house, we broke up. When I first came through his door, he looked stressed and unhappy. I asked him what was wrong. He said, "I feel so much pressure about us." And then we got to talking, and he said something about him moving back to the town where his family ranch was. I got upset and said, "So what is it, then? Are we just going our separate ways?" And he said, "I think so."

 

I was shocked. He continued, saying he was afraid of me, that when I speak to him now I always sound angry and frustrated, that he always was two steps behind me and always would be. I was so hurt I couldn't bear it, because all I'd ever wanted, for well over a year, was for him to step up and talk about the future with me, and I only ever got pushed away. I said, "Well, it sounds like there's nothing to talk about, then." And he shook his head. I left his apartment, and that was that. That was the end.

 

Sorry this is so long. Here's what is bothering me: that when I came back in June asking to keep trying, the "new" thing I was bringing to the table was the suggestion we go to therapy individually and as a couple. But we never had even ONE session as a couple. I feel that as a real loss, because it would have given us a chance to better understand how we were miscommunicating, and maybe we might have understood one another's positions better. I'm concerned that our therapist never ONCE, after we broke up, suggested that we hold off on that decision until we've committed to at least a few couples counseling sessions if we both agree to it. Is that not something a couples counselor would do? We went to him because the problems in our relationship had reached a head. It seems that a couples counselor should know that it's important we get in a session together, or the whole thing might explode before we can get help as a couple.

 

And then I'm bothered by my own behavior. Granted, I was frustrated; granted, I was at the end of my rope. But it seemed that in my frustration I myself cut off an opportunity for K and I to discuss steps for the future. For instance, at our "last supper" when he said he wished we could look into relocating together.

 

I don't know. I know I'm bargaining, because I am losing something that hugely matters to me, irrespective of all the frustrations. If there was something I could do before I have to just cut my losses and put all this in the past, and this man who matters so much to me, then I want to do it. I feel like I was maybe too hard on K...and then I feel like, if HE cared so much, he should have brought up the future himself rather than pushing me away when I brought it up.

 

As you can see, I really hate to lose. I'm very tenacious, and while that's a good thing at times, maybe it's not always a good thing.

[heartshaped]

I think on some issues in your relationship with K you might have been a tad hasty or overreacted, but I agree it was due to frustration. From what you've said, K was never really willing to take about any sort of future- together or his alone. I think if you and K were ever to work out there has to be a more solid commitment from him or at least, a solid future plan.

 

My problem with your therapist is this- never once have you had a couples' session though that was the intent from the beginning + he has implied K is inferior, but honestly from what you've said here it does not seem that way + he is adamant about you leaving the relationship though it isn't abusive, etc. It doesn't seem like he ever tried giving the two of you the tools or opportunities to work on the relationship.

 

Also, he's making a whole lot of opinions without having talked to you both jointly. Individually, you both are telling one side of a story without the other being their to give their side or input. He is then taking those individual sides and trying to make them fit together to form the big picture. I think that's counterproductive.

[Zapbasket]

Thanks SO much, Heartshaped. I've been thinking about how my and K's therapist has been handling things and I have to say, I'm not happy at all. I'm pretty concerned that he helped to lead us where we are...and I don't think even a trained professional should opine, after just two months, whether our relationship should continue when we did not have a single couples session.

 

So how do I address this with the therapist? Should I let K know and see whether he'd want to do a couples counseling series of sessions? Should I seek out another therapist for myself?

[heartshaped]

First and foremost, I think you should decide what it is you truly want as far as K is concerned. Do you want to make this break up work or do you want to make a relationship work with K. Here on loveshack we are all so quick to say stay or leave, but relationships are so much more complex than can be communicated via internet and even more complex than our friends or family can understand as they are simply outsiders looking in.

 

I don't think one way or another it's a decision that can be made hastily and I do think it would do you well to talk to K and get his thoughts on the matter. What do you need out of a relationship? Is K capable of meeting those needs? What has to change for your relationship with K to be successful? How can you change for your relationship with K to be successful? <- Those are the questions you should be asking yourself and K.

 

If the two of you are to reconcile in any form or capacity I do believe you could both benefit from couples' counseling and maybe individual counseling, but not under this therapist. I think you could try talking to him about the situation, but he seems to be so adamant that your relationship with K end that I think he would work against your relationship in the end whether than help it improve or perhaps succeed.

[Zapbasket]

First and foremost, I think you should decide what it is you truly want as far as K is concerned. Do you want to make this break up work or do you want to make a relationship work with K. Here on loveshack we are all so quick to say stay or leave, but relationships are so much more complex than can be communicated via internet and even more complex than our friends or family can understand as they are simply outsiders looking in.

 

I began seeing this therapist because of the conflicting feelings I had about this relationship. I was unsure whether it was truly best to stay or to go and, if you look at some of my old threads on this relationship, I had reason to be concerned. That said, I feel a strong bond with K. that I never fully articulated in my previous threads, and I felt (and feel) that the best course of action would be to honor that bond by going for counseling and learning to see one another in as compassionate a light as possible before deciding to end the relationship. That was my wish. I'm not sure what K's wish was but I don't think he was planning on ending the relationship.

 

I don't think one way or another it's a decision that can be made hastily and I do think it would do you well to talk to K and get his thoughts on the matter. What do you need out of a relationship? Is K capable of meeting those needs? What has to change for your relationship with K to be successful? How can you change for your relationship with K to be successful? <- Those are the questions you should be asking yourself and K.

 

How do I manage this? Right now K and I are not speaking; we've been broken up for 5 weeks and a day and though we did reach out to each other on our respective birthdays last week, the feeling I get is that we are continuing in silence for a while.

 

I know, from K's mom, that he feels he is really getting a lot out of his sessions with his therapist, so how to I broach this issue of the counseling with him without revealing what the counselor has said to me about him or otherwise making him feel I am trying to undermine his sessions? This is K's first time ever seeing a therapist.

 

This is of course assuming that if I wrote to him asking to talk, he would be receptive to talking with me. I think he might be but then I don't really know. His mother told me a couple of weeks ago that he is not sure it is over between us, so perhaps he would be receptive; I don't honestly know.

 

Either way, it leaves me feeling very uncertain about this therapist, which really sucks because I am deeply confused about the entire situation with K (which is why I sought therapy in the first place), and confused about all the feelings the situation elicits in me, and I have no real support network where I live and feel I really need help and support right now. I can't feel supported by this therapist so long as I remain unsure of his intentions and competence. And objectivity.

 

Now with this issue added to the mix, I'm starting to feel like I just should pack up my things and move from here. I'm really starting to feel completely overwhelmed and I don't feel I have anywhere locally to turn.

[Zapbasket]

I am feeling so overwhelmed with everything that I'm feeling there is no way out. I'm questioning why and how it could be that at age 37 I have nowhere to turn; I can't find a year-round full-time job and I cannot understand why no one wants to hire me here; I can't even manage the comfort of a solid love relationship and have no idea, NO IDEA, how I wound up in this mess; I try to do the right thing and get help and I am forced to face the very real possibility that the help is maybe not appropriate. I lost my entire support network (K's family), such as it was, here and I can't just up and move in to live with my 77-year-old mother. And I have nowhere else to go, no one to talk to, and my thoughts have begun racing because I just cannot ever manage to find a way out of my predicament. I am beginning to feel there is no end in sight to the struggle and while I am not suicidal, I'm beginning to think there is no value or purpose to my living anymore.

 

I'm feeling really, really overwhelmed and I don't know what to do.

[Els]

Sorry to hear you're having such a hard time, OP.

 

I really don't know what to say, except that it does get better. Not immediately, it takes time and you will backslide sometimes, but it happens.

 

Hang in there.

[heartshaped]

Just take deep breaths, GC. Don't panic and don't try to decide or fix everything at once. Maybe you should take a couple of days away from the situation and just focus on the things you enjoy (your hobbies, etc.) and regroup in a few days.

 

I would definitely suggest that if nothing else you find a new therapist for yourself. Even though you and K are not speaking right now I see no reason that you could not break the silence and suggest the two of you get couples' counseling with another therapist IF that's what you decide to do. But regardless I don't think you are getting much out of your personal sessions and should find something else.

[Zapbasket]

Just take deep breaths, GC. Don't panic and don't try to decide or fix everything at once. Maybe you should take a couple of days away from the situation and just focus on the things you enjoy (your hobbies, etc.) and regroup in a few days.

 

I would definitely suggest that if nothing else you find a new therapist for yourself. Even though you and K are not speaking right now I see no reason that you could not break the silence and suggest the two of you get couples' counseling with another therapist IF that's what you decide to do. But regardless I don't think you are getting much out of your personal sessions and should find something else.

 

Thank you, Heartshaped. How do I broach this with my therapist? I'm really not happy that NOT ONCE did he move forward with our original intent for couples counseling.

 

Here's a draft of the letter I intend to send to K. Do you think it addresses the matter the best way?

 

K,

 

I’ve been sorting through a lot of feelings and am especially heavy-hearted that we are where we are without ever having had any couples counseling sessions, which was our original intent when we started with [our therapist].

 

Back in June, we both acknowledged that we needed to work on our communication so that we could better engage in ways that fostered trust and respect. We acknowledged that we needed help with this. It seems that the outcome of where we are now is the direct result of the very communication dynamics that we hoped to change through work, together, in counseling.

 

I wanted to hear you say that you wanted us to go forward together in our future plans, and I pushed you. You had told me you were feeling a lot of pressure and I was too wrapped in my own hurt to back off and support you as you needed. Looking back, it seems I misunderstood your good intentions. I deeply regret this.

 

I feel like we sank in mutual misunderstandings that didn’t need to have happened, that we knew we needed help clearing up. I feel like we found a source of help, and didn’t avail ourselves of it. I would like the opportunity to have counseling sessions with you, so that we can learn how to communicate better, ultimately so that no matter what we can honor the love and friendship that drew and kept us together.

 

I’d really like to talk to you in person about this, rather than email.

 

I hope that you are doing well.

 

Green Cove

 

If he agrees to speak with me about this, do you think I should suggest we go for couples counseling with a different therapist? Or should we try our current one out for a few sessions first?

 

At issue is the fact that where we live, there are pretty slim pickings as far as therapists go. I chose the current one on the recommendation of someone whose judgment I trust (plus this therapist was instrumental in his recovery from years of alcohol abuse). I thought the therapist was intelligent and well-educated, and when I asked him about seeing K and me separately and whether that was a good idea, he said, "I have excellent boundaries."

 

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that if he expresses the opinions he does there must be good reason...but his approach seems counterintuitive to the growth of K and I separately (for me, for instance, telling me it's that K was somehow inferior rather than that focus on dysfunctional patterns of relating that I exhibit and that contributed to our outcome), let alone as a couple, which is how we entered therapy with this man.

[Zapbasket]

Here are the things my therapist has said about K:

--he's counterdependent

--he's "constitutionally incapable" (borrowing the AA term) of an intimate relationship

--he's an example of the kind of "inferior," "wounded" men I choose

--when I asked K, the day we broke up, "So are we going our separate ways, then?" and K said, "I think so," that represented the extent of care he had about the relationship and about me

--K is "not awake yet"

--K most likely will not fundamentally change to become capable of an intimate relationship, and if he does, it will happen on a time frame not commensurate with my needs (I could be waiting years and years)

--K has abandonment issues from his early life that play into his sabotaging behavior in our relationship

--our relationship was "borderline abusive" (from the context it seemed the therapist was referring to K's part)

--K is an example of the kind of "project" men I have chosen historically and why chose a "project" when you can have someone who meets you half way

 

The therapist also said that K:

--did not give off a "narcissistic vibe" like my previous (diagnosed narcissist) ex

--just might one day be able to give another woman what he could not give me

--might not be so antagonistic with a woman whose personality is different from mine

--has a good deal of emotional perspicuity

 

These last things he said early on in my visits with him, before K and I broke up but after K had begun seeing him. They seem to contradict much of the other stuff he said.

 

At first, I did not question these things the therapist said because I was so angry and frustrated with K that it almost made me feel "good" (a relative term. It did not truly make me feel "good" in the real sense).

 

But as the anger and frustration has waned, I feel I see things a bit more objectively, and though I do not deny all the frustrations in the relationship that I have enumerated on LS across multiple threads over the years, I don't see K in this flat way that my therapist seems to. Yes, he inflicted a lot of sabotaging behaviors on the relationship, but at the same time he very palpably showed up, followed through on his word, was there for me when I needed him, did thoughtful things for me and listened to my problems with and without offering solutions.

 

I question my therapist's flat-light view of K and consequently I question whether it's really so simple as "GC has a broken man-picker; if she fixed her man-picker then she would find a man who was eager to be with her." I know I reacted poorly to things in the relationship, and I was hard on K a lot of the time, which put him more on edge and therefore made him more prone to defensive, antagonistic behavior.

 

It is for this reason that I decided to reach out to K. I sent that letter, with a few modifications.

 

Crazy?

[sunshinegirl]

GC, you have to make your own decisions but I am sad to see that you are glomming onto the positive words of one poster to take yet another run at making this relationship work.

 

Three and a half years, GC. That's how long you tried.

 

If you don't like your therapist, find a new one, and continue on your individual therapy. But I would seriously weather this emotional storm without immediately running back to K to try, yet again, to make things work.

 

This is you bargaining, BIG TIME, justifying your desire to throw good time and effort after bad. Ask yourself: why isn't K knocking down your door to try couples counseling? I would actually insist on nothing less: you suggesting it is simply replaying the pattern of you doing the initiating and most of the work in the relationship.

 

A counselor's job is not to force couples to have couples counseling if it is clear that one or both of them no longer wants to, or that the dynamic is too far damaged for a joint session to be of value. So I'd stop demonizing your therapist on that front.

 

As for all the stuff your therapist has said to you, meh. I'm still not terribly concerned about boundary violations. My own therapist was happy to help me see the bad sides of my exes -- it was a therapeutic way to shake me out of defending and romanticizing a person who was truly a bad match for me.

 

It's not your concern what your therapist says to K. The therapist didn't break you up or push you away, you were already broken. Don't forget that.

 

If you feel I'm projecting too much of my own experience onto you, feel free to ignore what I'm saying.

 

I am flagging this, however, because it is exactly the kind of bargaining I did on a different discussion site years ago with an old ex. I got enough people agreeing with me that there was a chance of contact and/or reconciliation, and I ran with it. And then got devastated all over again when the attempt failed miserably.

 

I would urge you not to have any kind of contact with K until your emotions have settled down further. You don't know what to trust at this point, so the comfort of being back in that relationship -- and the drug of hope -- is 'trumping' right now.

 

I firmly believe that a relationship fraught with so much difficulty for 3.5 years is never going to be the relationship of your dreams.

Edited October 1, 2013 by sunshinegirl

[Zapbasket]

Oh, dear SSG, I know you are right; I'm just doing what I have always done because I haven't yet learned something new.

 

I wish more than anything that for once, it wouldn't be me making the moves. I wish he were knocking down my door to go to couples counseling with me.

 

So much got stirred up for me with our birthdays just five days apart, and then worst of all was that I was out at a restaurant on his birthday with a friend and in walked his family and him for his birthday dinner. I was right by the door, waiting for them to call us to our table. It was so awkward and sad and weird and horrible; the look on every one of their faces just was miserable and I can only imagine what was on my face. It set me way back.

 

I am sincere in that note to K but it all feels fruitless given the reason I had said I DIDN'T want couples counseling with K was that I felt he wasn't aware enough, or at all, of his issues that led to his behaviors and counseling would be little more than a time-consuming drag. I guess I wished it could be different.

 

Anyway, I'm finding myself rereading your post a lot. I know you are right, yet I can't seem to get myself over to "the other side" yet.

[tbf]

GC, you're doing it again. Feeling compelled to push him towards what you want. He's already told you he's afraid of you and in some ways, I don't blame him since it's your way or subsequent drama.

 

You have to learn that you can't control others, just to get what you want. If he were to get back with you, he would be signing on to a lifetime of stress and pressure, trying to live up to what you want.

 

While I really like you, you need to address your control issues with your therapist. Otherwise, every future relationship will end up in similar fashion.

[Zapbasket]

GC, you're doing it again. Feeling compelled to push him towards what you want. He's already told you he's afraid of you and in some ways, I don't blame him since it's your way or subsequent drama.

 

You have to learn that you can't control others, just to get what you want. If he were to get back with you, he would be signing on to a lifetime of stress and pressure, trying to live up to what you want.

 

While I really like you, you need to address your control issues with your therapist. Otherwise, every future relationship will end up in similar fashion.

 

I'm sorry, because I so want to understand what you mean, but I truly do not. I'm ashamed for sending that email if it is only "controlling"; I thought it was one final gesture from the best, most carefully considered part of me. How am I trying to control him to get what I want? How did I do so in the relationship?

 

Sorry, TBF. I genuinely don't understand and hope you will return to clarify.

[Zapbasket]

Well, I met with my therapist yesterday and shared with him what I wrote to K. He admitted he felt "highly ambivalent" about the value of couples counseling for us, because he feels so strongly that I'm much better off moving on from K. He said he'd see us if K agrees it's something he wants to do, but he reaffirmed the "list" (see above) of reasons why K is not a good partner, for me or anyone right now.

 

My mother, my close friends, my not-as-close friends--absolutely everyone believes I'm better off without K. They consider him a complete f-up as far as relationships are concerned.

 

I see it...and yet I don't. I don't know why I don't see it, despite all the years of threads on LS where seemingly three years ago I saw it more clearly even than I do now.

 

I haven't yet heard back from K, but I expect I will eventually, perhaps after he has his session with our therapist. I asked our therapist if he will tell K as well that he is ambivalent about couples counseling for us, and he said, "Not necessarily, because the reason for my ambivalence is more on your behalf."

 

I feel lower than ever. I truly question the value of my life. I have had three long-term romantic relationships in my life, and every single one has been profoundly hurtful. I feel ashamed that I can't seem to have a healthy relationship, though I have healthy, long-standing friendships and my relationship with my mother and family keeps getting stronger, mostly due to my efforts. I think/thought I was a good girlfriend to all the men I've been with: I'm caring, thoughtful, compassionate...but I have standards, and I don't think in any instance they were unreasonable standards.

 

I feel so confused and lost and alone and sad.

[heartshaped]

I took the liberty of going back and reading through all of your threads that were based upon your relationship with K. I know in the past (I think a couple of years ago now) I commented on one of your threads and I remembered that incident vividly, but I hadn't really caught up.

 

Having read through all of the threads, I have to ask GC, what made you stay with K from the first place? I am in no way trying to influence your decisions now, but I do wonder why you would continue on in a relationship that from the very beginning it seems you were quite unhappy in.

 

I think you (as does everyone) have the ability to be happy in a relationship, but I wonder if perhaps it's the people you choose as partners? K seems like such an ill match from the beginning for you from what I read in some of your threads. Now I think you are in a place where you love him and you want the relationship to work, but you are struggling with your incompatibilities.

 

Outside of your long term relationships, have you dated much?

[sunshinegirl]

I feel lower than ever. I truly question the value of my life.

 

...and so you reached out to K in hopes that he will validate you.

 

I am sorry to hear you contacted him, though it may be that you need one more round through the wringer to truly hit rock bottom. I say that because you are not behaving in self-protective ways, and usually it's when people hit bottom that they are finally willing to prioritize themselves and their healing. I hope that you will soon get to a place that you will do ANYTHING to protect yourself from further hurt.

 

I feel so confused and lost and alone and sad.

 

When you are finally ready to do the work you need to do, I and others on LS can encourage you through the confusing and lost and alone and sad times. My good friend warned me--when I went through this--that it would be a dark and hard time, but the key was to know that it was temporary. On the other side of that darkness is your freedom, your happiness, and your very bright future. I am a living testimony to that journey and will tell you that it was so, so worth it.

 

But you have to first be willing to embrace the darkness. It takes a will of steel to do it, and I know you are absolutely capable of having that will. But when you are willing to run back into the arms of someone who never made you truly happy to begin with, it is clear you have not yet decided to journey forward.

 

I hope you will make that decision.

[Zapbasket]

Okay. I will respond to some of the rest of this in a bit, but I just found out some news and am so upset I have to write here and could use some support.

 

One of the biggest agonies in my relationship with K. had nothing to do with K or I at all. It had to do with the fact that we live in a small mountain community where career opportunities are scarce, and both of us have had experience studying and working at prestigious larger organizations outside of here. Consequently, both of us have struggled to find work commensurate with our abilities, interests, and career expectations. FOR THE ENTIRE THREE-PLUS YEARS WE WERE TOGETHER, our careers hit a standstill. Where at first he seemed motivated with lots of prospects, within the first 8 months of our dating he had seemingly petered out in trying to find better opportunities for himself. I think this owed to two major disappointments in the fall of 2010 and he just kind-of gave up.

 

I, who was new to the state and to this city, could not afford to give up, even after the job for which I moved to this small town proved untenable given the jealousies and undermining behaviors of the CEO and her nasty daughter. I kept trying, I took sh*t jobs to keep afloat, other sh*t jobs I couldn't even get hired for, and finally I decided to focus on writing a book while still trying to take up opportunities that came up.

 

The mutual frustration we encountered regarding our careers and job prospects certainly adversely affected our relationship. We both were frustrated, lonely, sad, and our self-confidence was at a low. How could this not affect our relationship?

 

So now we are broken up as of six weeks ago today on the dot. And on K's Facebook, his mother posted a management-level job that is RIGHT UP HIS ALLEY. He certainly is a shoo-in for an interview and he may well get the job. Of course I am happy for him and hope it works out, but how tortuous is it that something like this comes up only AFTER, and RIGHT AFTER, we have broken up.

 

It just feels like a sick joke. He will feel like a different man if he gets this job; it's about everything he cares about and all his experience aligns perfectly with the job requirements. He'll get to meet educated, interesting, outdoorsy cool people (we had like NO social life here because of our job stagnation; we were a couple that lived a monk-like couple existence here the whole time we dated, although I kept trying to meet new people). A lot of the people we met as a couple were not nearly as educated as we were and just didn't have the motivation to seek out something more for themselves than seasonal-type recreation jobs.

 

So now suddenly it has worked out for him, as soon as he got rid of me. And earlier this week I interviewed for an opening in an organization that is right up MY experiential/educational alley. I'd been bugging this organization for opportunities for the past several YEARS. I interviewed and got the same thing I always get: I'm overqualified for the position that is open (it's entry-level), and so despite being "very impressed" yadda yadda yadda, ultimately the Director did not give me the job.

 

It just feels like yet another huge slap in the face, all this. I got so frustrated with K for exhibiting NO get up and go in the time I was with him; he hated working construction and yet didn't try to seek out any opportunities in his field. And now, suddenly, the perfect job, a real job, a management-level job, just right there in his lap. He is from this state; he has deep ties to this place; while I, STILL, am the newcomer and STILL I can't find any opportunities despite trying and trying and trying non-stop.

 

How can I not help but feel devastated by this? Why does NOTHING work out? What kind of sick joke is it that all of a sudden, his life is all lined up to work out perfectly as soon as we part ways?

 

Seriously I feel like no sooner do I try to pick myself up, another thing crashes down on me.