Its complicated..

[JAG26]

So here's the situation.. been married for 7 years+ () with a wonderful daughter who's about to turn 5. Both of us work in pretty successful and demanding careers. About 4 months back she started frequent international travel (short trips of 2-3 weeks). There was a period of 1 week (when I was travelling to the other side of the globe) where we absolutely had no contact (phone / email / IM) - mostly because we were having low intimacy in general (communicate usually once every other day when travelling) and both our work situations have been terribly demanding.

 

Then, she told me that she's does not have any love for me anymore and is unhappy with state of our marriage. She wants space, wants to travel alone and needs to think through her future. She mentioned that she's feeling a fierce sense to protect her individuality / fulfill wishes (one of which involve doing a PhD, something which she had mentioned in a passing fashion over last few years but never with this intensity). She's even discussed with me quitting her job and applying for PhD at various universities. At first my reaction was to push back, given that I recently moved cities because of her job and took on immense amount of workload in the new role with my company. However, I realize that she's quite determined (and bright) and started discussing how's instead of why's.

 

Meanwhile, she's been working into late night and early morning almost every day and stays over at a collegue's place (near the office, to save the commute and make it to early morning meetings the next day). She informed me over phone that's she's staying over at collegue's place - but that was after we had the conversation about our marriage and state of things. The pattern continued for next few weeks, and for last 1 week I've been back in town, it continues - even on weekends. Monday of this week, she mentioned that she was in office working late night - I was passing nearby and asked her out for coffee late evening. She hesitated first and then after I persisted told me that she was really not in office but at her collegue's place. I got furious about the fact that she lied to me and asked her to meet me (along with that collegue of her's). We met at a coffee shop (around 11 PM in the night) and first thing she told me was that she is visiting this collegue since she confides in him about the issues we are going through in our relationship and she finds peace in talking to him. The dude was fairly well composed and I liked talking to him (inspite of the fact that I started off my conversation with "I'm sorry, I'm going to be rude with you tonight!"). He said that she feels very cornered in the relationship and he's helping her cope up. Apparently, his own sister is going through something like this and hence he can understand her state of mind. He invited me to come over to his place and talk things out with her there. Dont know why, but I refused to go to his place and returned home instead. I think it was my fear of further losing control over myself that night. I actually thanked the guy for supporting my wife (I know she's going through pretty stressed times as well juggling between all this stress and a demanding work situation).

 

I still love her very much and want to live my life with her. We've had long phone, email conversations about what went wrong, what do both of us expect from life, sex, religion, marriage, incompatibility, our parents, etc. I wanted to see a marriage counsellor immediately after I came back but she pushed back saying that she wants to finish off the current project, take some time off to travel (alone) and then come back and see one. She's mentioned that she wants to work on our marriage and make this work - but at this point, doesnt feel any love for me. And she doesnt want to live forever with me if that feeling is not there.

 

To further complicate things, her parents have been living with us for sometime - to take care of the l'il one and they can see pretty much whatever is going on. So, I've to manage them and ensure that they dont precipitate the situation prematurely. My work situation continues to be heavy although I've talked about my problems with my boss and asked for some support, to which he agreed.

 

I'd like to believe that she's just deriving emotional and mental support from this set up of hers and it'll help her overcome her own personal crises. What nags me is if she's trying to see if another relationship can work out, while she continues with her marriage. Other thing that has changed about her is being more secretive about her phone, facebook, email, etc. She's trying to lose weight and changed her wardrobe completely - which is perfectly ok that she desires to change a few things in life and may not necessarily mean that she's seeing someone else. I'm unable to think very clearly at this point and came across this forum. Do share your honest opinions about the situation and how I should cope up. This has hit me like a tonne of bricks and I'm finding it very hard to continue status quo

[keepontruckin]

She hates you and is now banging some other dude.

 

Sorry to be blunt, but you did state that you wanted honest opinions.

 

Now, there's really nothing you can do at this point, but to protect your own assets. She is no longer your friend.

[dumped2013]

She's banging the guy. Sorry, but I would have lost it. You need to protect yourself. She is probably traveling with him.

[vla1120]

She lied. Point blank. That means you can't trust anything she says. She's sleeping with this guy right under your nose, and he's got some nerve, too.

 

You need to start doing what's best for you and your child. Your child needs a stable parent - looks like it needs to be YOU!

[GuyInLimbo]

This woman is pretty f*cking cruel, man. She's having an affair right under your nose and they even have the balls to play it off like it's some nicey nice thing. Sorry, I don't buy it. I agree with VLA. If she wants to go do her own thing, you need to be preparing yourself for a battle to get FULL custody of your daughter.

[Mr. Lucky]

We met at a coffee shop (around 11 PM in the night) and first thing she told me was that she is visiting this collegue since she confides in him about the issues we are going through in our relationship and she finds peace in talking to him. The dude was fairly well composed and I liked talking to him (inspite of the fact that I started off my conversation with "I'm sorry, I'm going to be rude with you tonight!"). He said that she feels very cornered in the relationship and he's helping her cope up. Apparently, his own sister is going through something like this and hence he can understand her state of mind. He invited me to come over to his place and talk things out with her there.

Is there any rational reason you can offer as to why this stranger - who, unless I missed it, isn't a counselor or therapist - has stepped into the middle of your marriage? And your wife is sleeping at his place ???

 

I would have punched him in the face the moment he said word one to me. Whatever the consequences, would have been worth it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[RonaldS]

She's trying to lose weight and changed her wardrobe completely - which is perfectly ok that she desires to change a few things in life and may not necessarily mean that she's seeing someone else

 

You're right....it doesn't.

 

But her lying to you about being in the office and then agreeing to meet you for an impromptu late-night coffee meeting along with the man she is spending nights with does.

[JAG26]

Thanks all for your comments. Situation has worsened considerably since I first posted. The pattern continued last week and then finally, last weekend, almost early morning Sunday, I confronted her with some evidence - after which she agreed that she's slept with this guy. She was trying to trickle truth me.. first mentioned that it happened only once or twice but it did happen multiple times over the last 2 months or so. I was suspecting something but ground fell below my feet when I realized that not only did she cheat but also had the nerve to lie to me about it. When I asked her why did she do it - she said that sex didnt mean anything and she felt comfortable and peaceful talking to that guy. Sex just happened and she didnt enjoy it either. She's written a few apology emails to me but I'm yet to see true remorse. In fact, I'm still the one who's keeping things together from crumbling at home - like buying groceries, taking my kid to skating class and talking to my in-laws (who's clearly flummoxed by what kind of "process" are we going through). I'm confused completely. One part of me just wants to break this relationship right now and preserve what's left of me. Another part wants to just detach and not think about it for some time.

 

I'm completely devastated. I'm going through a tremendously stress situation at work and just cant drop things there. Have spoken to my boss a little bit about the personal issues and he's kind enough to allow me to take it easy for some time. Meanwhile, saw an IC immediately the next day, who referred me to a Psych (she prescribed some meds for me to cool off). I still cant think clearly. There's a constant buzz in my head. I cant even feel anger - its just disbelief and disappointment. I continue to work for 14-15 hrs though and just trying too hard to detach myself.

 

I dont know what will happen to my marriage. Its just these days which I'm finding it extremely hard to manage. Only upside is that since I sleep for 3-4 hours, I'm getting a lot more time to work now.. I'm so ****ed up.

[Mint Sauce]

she has a 5 yro daughter but wants to travel the world alone? How old are you guys?

 

She's too far gone. I'm usually all for diplomacy and trying to save what's left, but in this case you need to establish a separate life for you and your daughter asap.

[JAG26]

Am 35 and she 32

[dumped2013]

I'm sorry dude. You are still young. Get the process started and let the healing begin. Take care of your daughter and go for full custody. It's going to suck for a while. I'm 2 weeks post divorce and she moves the rest of her stuff out tomorrow so I feel your pain.

[Mr. Lucky]

Pack her **** and drop it off at the other guys house. Tell them good luck, that he can have a lying cheating whore....that you don't want her anymore, nor do you care what she does with her life. File for Divorce and file for full custody. KICK her to the curb. Drop her off at OM's house - you want her dude? here she is!!

While I understand - and have felt - this, don't rush into anything. There are marriages that survive infidelity and those that splinter apart. Now that the truth is out, make your own measured decisions based on your feelings and her conduct. With a child involved, lots at stake here. Unfortunately, you're only at Step #1 of a long and difficult process. Keep posting and let us know how you're doing...

 

Mr. Lucky

[JAG26]

Things have gotten better personally with me. I think its the meds which helped me feel better and maybe I hit a bottom and realized there's no point in feeling sorry for myself. The pain has not reduced a bit, but I'm able to detach a little better for past 2 days.

 

Wrote the following email to my wife. She didnt respond but said that she'd want a MC to drive this process. We're seeing 3 different MC's over next 3 days to finalize the one which we are comfortable with. She's showing signs of remorse and a willingness to seek professional help.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

As we chatted, the objective of these actions is to completely open each other's mind and bring everything out. It will be ugly and deeply hurting to both of us - but I think its the only way we can regain trust and understanding. These may look very one sided (are too an extent since they are coming from me). By no means these are non-negotiable. Please treat them as first cut, a start and an honest attempt from my side to begin the long journey of reconciliation and rebuilding:

 

1. One-on-One time, we'll put out 60 minutes on our days which is absolutely non-negotiable. No work, commitment or occasion should take that away. Exceptions are emergencies which would mean physical danger to us or our near and dear ones OR if one of us will lose our job or have significant impact on our work due to our lack of availability in that hour. I propose 10-11 PM everyday.

 

2. All discussions with OM have to be done in front of me - telephonic or f2f

 

3. 100% transparency with each other about our communication with everyone outside work - share phone, email, social network passwords.

 

4. Talk to each other twice a day about our schedules, how's the day going, how should we spend the evening, etc

 

5. In our one-on-one time daily, we'll communicate to each other about daily work, co-workers, any significant mental activity undertaken

 

6. We need to make each other comfortable with other's travel plans.

 

7. We'll not talk about parents / in-laws except when absolutely necessary due to some issue to be taken care of immediately.

 

8. We'll confess to each other about what we are doing for sexual gratification (masturbation, etc), since we are not having sex

 

9. We'll not discuss any long term plans or stress out about the outcome of this process and its impact. We are too fragile right now to think through long term implications. We'll take it week by week.

 

10. We'll talk to a few other MC's and see one next week.

 

11. Drop <> travel plan and start working on steps which MC recommends since we wont have much distractions anyways.

 

Most importantly, I trust that you'll not share this email with anyone and let me know your decision about today evening's discussion as soon as you can.

 

Sincerely,

JAG

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

I'll let everyone here know how the next few days go. Thanks for all the honest opinions. Please keep them coming.

[JAG26]

Yes, we've had 2 MC sessions so far. I'm seeing an IC and a Psychatrist as well. Days are like months but I've not given up hope. Every MC session is gut wrenching and both of us come out feeling low - but MC says it will take time and we need to continue. The roller coaster ride continues.. I just hope my wheels dont come off

[JAG26]

Alright, update time. Its been pretty miserable last 2 weeks. Save a big and happy party we threw for our daughter's birthday. It was one big happy family at the outside. No guests had any clue of what's going on.

 

Have had 4 MC sessions so far. Its a roller coaster. MC seems to want to get into the history of the relationship and uncover deep seated issues. Not sure if I have the patience and will power to go through that process while my faith in the relationship is all but gone. I've more or less made up my mind to call it quits.

 

She still hasnt made full disclosures with me (neither is she being fully transparent) - although she continues to be repentant and apologetic about what happened. The AP continues to be her co-worker and she tells me that the A stopped the day it was exposed.

 

On the A - It was very stupid - according to her and she should not have done it. She says that there is no emotional attachment from either side in the A and the she was going to stop the sex soon. :sick: I find it hard to believe her and think that trust is truly broken and it will be very very very long before I can again trust this woman. So, I've been introspecting and thinking if R is truly worth it. Is it truly worth giving a second chance to someone who:

 

1. Acknowledges that she doesnt love you anymore

2. Cannot commit to working on the marriage on an ongoing basis

3. Threw away her marriage vows and all the good in her life - for something which I'm not sure. Maybe the thrill of an affair or sex outside marriage or to take revenge on me.

 

Its truly truly one big tragedy that someone could do that without really having a good reason. Why cant people have more integrity? Why do they take a a fairly (if not perfectly) good marriage and tear it apart with their own hands. How could someone be so cruel and inconsiderate, especially if they are a parent? I'd never understand this part of human psyche.

 

I feel like I'm hurtling towards a D with full speed and R is just a faint hope now. I want to give back some $hit to the world. I'm just so ****ing tired of this whole thing and want to get past it. Move beyond and get on with life.

[Mr. Lucky]

She still hasnt made full disclosures with me (neither is she being fully transparent) - although she continues to be repentant and apologetic about what happened. The AP continues to be her co-worker and she tells me that the A stopped the day it was exposed.

 

On the A - It was very stupid - according to her and she should not have done it. She says that there is no emotional attachment from either side in the A and the she was going to stop the sex soon. :sick:

This the very definition of "trickle truth" and is done to protect her, not you or your marriage. So had could you be committed to fix things when she's not even close to being there ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Wow, talk about cold! Right under your nose.

 

Sorry dude. Complete COMPLETE lack of respect. I know I couldn't come back from that.

 

Good luck and take care of you.

[JAG26]

Things continue to be in limbo. We've had 5 MC sessions so far but yet to discuss the A and the true healing process. The facade of normal life continues at home but the wedge between the hearts continues to be driven further and further... Triggers just destroy hours at one go.

 

I'm a fairly rational person otherwise, and factwise (from the affair and the preceding 7 years), there isnt anything left. In our last MC session, my WW, when asked about the best moments from 1st two years of our marriage, forgot two of our trips taken to a beach destination (one after the other shortly, one of them involving a nice long road trip with a friend couple). Kinda tells me that A has completely changed her - she wants to forget all that was once good and wants to reinforce whatever was wrong and bad about the M. The history of our relationship sessions at the MC are more about what was missing in those years and what could have been done.

 

Not sure if its really worth repairing - if someone really things its that broken. Especially, if that someone is the one who took a big spear and drove it right into the rel'ship.

 

Other thing I want to ask folks out here is about IC. Went to my 2nd IC yesterday - somehow find it very difficult to have a good conversation with them when all they are doing is forcing my answers into a structure and looking at the clock. Its so ****ing stupid that someone is looking at the time while the other person is laying his life's biggest crisis and his innermost feelings bare. I almost feel like hitting those ****ers in the face. Is it even possible to have a structured IC sessions with all the follow-up's and all. I mean I need IC most when I'm under most stress. 5 minutes before a high pressure meeting - when thoughts are racing through my mind - I have the most questions and clarity. That's the state of mind I want to talk to a counselor. Not in a once a week scheduled manner. Just doesnt make sense.

What say/

[notbroken]

I'm sorry you are in such a tough situation.

 

A couple of questions:

 

* Could you ever trust your wife completely again?

* Do you even want to be with someone that says and acts like they no longer love you?

* What if she all of a sudden said she did love you - would you believe her or would you think it was self serving somehow?

* Do you want to be in a long distance marriage with someone that cheated and lied to you?

 

I'm sure all this has damaged your self esteem. You DO deserve better. You WILL find it - most likely sooner than you think.

[familygone]

Trend happening here! It happend to me too.Wife pretty much said things that i took as we would be together forever .I was to stupid believed it!But i quess it was my fault for the DV?Because one night she wanted sex and i turned her down and thats when stuff started to happen.I only turned her down that night for the first time ,i was the one who always wanted it.Then come to find out she was on aff showing pictures of her and guy in our bed doing it.I made a fake profile and seen it ,my heart just stopped for a sec.she was never like that before.I went through everything ,like every guy on here and slowly coming out .I my days too go day to day sometimes.We didnt have a conflict marriage.I didnt cheat or drink or abuse her in anyway I have a 7 year old daughter and she didnt care about family at all when she did this and that.Part of me wants to be a afamily again but that is gone.Like they say once a cheater.......a cheater.She wants to go places together on and off the 3 of us,but i know what happened i just cant bring myself to be a fake family and be in her presentst ITs take time>

Edited November 14, 2013 by familygone

[dienstag]

This sounds awful - just reading your story but the good news is most of people here have been there, this way or the other and survived.

 

My x cheated on me and i found some pictures, that he kindly forgot on my comp. I went through his stuff as a friend of mine advised and found more pics and a prove that this has been going on on&off about 10 years or so.

 

His therapist wanted to meet me and once i was there said that we absolutely must do MC as we really still have a good chance to save our marriage as there is nothing wrong here. ALL married man go through a phase of sexual fantasies and some of them take it a bit further but still it is not a "real" reason to break a family bla-bla. I told him to go very far and not to come back. My point here is there are therapists and there are therapists but you decide for yourself how you want to live your life

 

The minute i saw the first sex pictures i knew it on the spot - THIS IS IT, there is no way around as i could never forget and trust again, what kind of life is that? I must be honest i have no idea how people do it and get over affairs in marriage - maybe love really conquers all

 

You sound in agony but in my opinion mainly due to indecision. Once your mind is made, whichever way it is about being consequent and getting through the rough stuff until the end

 

Good luck

Edited November 14, 2013 by dienstag

[JAG26]

We have an MC session scheduled for tomorrow. I've set the agenda as the deep dive into the A. I've got a few specific things / details that I want to understand. However, I'd like advice from all the members here on what all aspects should be dealt with more in such a discussion. However, gut wrenching and damaging they may be - I'm prepared to listen. I'd rather get all the cut, instead of slow sandpaper rubbing the wound for months and years.

 

For the un-initiated, the D-day happened in late Sep. WW claims that she has stopped the A the very next day (although is in daily contact with the OM through work). She has shown signs of remorse and wants reconciliation. I'm running out of emotional energy to continue this and want the full disclosure asap so that I can process things, and hopefully start seeing things clearly. Growing increasingly tired of double guessing and the limbo.

 

BetrayedH, RightThere and other esteemed members.. pls help.

[Yasuandio]

I would advise you to review Dr. Harley's artcles on the series of infidelity topics on the free Marriage Builders website. He is adamant that reconciliation is not possible when the 3rd party remains in the picture. (That is pretty much common sense, as well). Yas

[Mr. Lucky]

I would advise you to review Dr. Harley's artcles on the series of infidelity topics on the free Marriage Builders website. He is adamant that reconciliation is not possible when the 3rd party remains in the picture. (That is pretty much common sense, as well). Yas

Growing increasingly tired of double guessing and the limbo.

As Yas says, how do you get out of limbo when she goes off to work with him every day?

 

No Contact serves two purposes -

- It stops the affair

- If transparently adhered to, it demonstrates the WS commitment to reconciliation

 

Right now, you're 0 for 2 and it's hard to see things getting better this way.

 

Have you asked her to change jobs ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[JAG26]

Update time...

 

Have had a gut wrenching MC session last weekend. Discussed the A in some detail - apparently it started with the OM asking her "what's your story" and then PA happening over movie watching in hotel room (they were on a official trip to west coast). Still havent got full details.. plan to talk more about it in coming session.

 

On other things - no I havent asked her to change jobs. She still works with the OM and is in contact with him on professional front. She's told me that A stopped on the day I discovered it and all conversations with OM are very brief and business like. For now, I've decided that I'll trust her on this. She's very ashamed and repentant on what has happened and has apologized to me several times about her mistake. What I still dont know is "why did it happen". She keeps on saying that "I was not thinking" but I want to understand why did it happen. I may never be able to understand, but it's just too damn harsh to not even able to understand why one of the most critical events in your personal life happened.

 

She's definitely trying to R, through actions and words. I keep saying that its not enough and both of us need to put in 150% if this has to survive. She thinks that anything more than this - she'll feel forced and she doesnt want to do that.

 

On transparency - she had shared her passwords with me but after I emailed one of her friends (who she used to meet often when on business trips) to get some details, she changed it. We had a big fight that evening and I became very enraged. In my anger, I called her parents and told them of the A. In hindsight, it didnt help anyone and they are now very disturbed and it has not helped us as a couple. I felt at that time that if her privacy is more important than my R, then **** it.

 

To add to all of this, she just finished her GRE and plans to apply to a number of top univ for her PhD. She really wants to study further and given her resolve I want to support her. But with no real planning from her side and this A, I dont know whether our family will come out intact from all this.

 

Its just darn too difficult and complicated. On the other hand, its strangely liberating. The thought that I'm faced with some pretty life changing decisions - which I may not be able to postpone for very long - does give a kick in the nuts and some internal strength. Work situation is as tough as it has ever been. Meeting my COO and the toughest client in next few hours, have had no sleep last night. I feel that if I come out of this phase alive, I'd ve grown balls of steel.:laugh: