DDay today

[road]

Scared to face consequences of her bad behavior is much different than what position women are in that have been beaten and battered - do not equate this as the same!

 

He hasn't even threatened her with any words! Stop assuming!

 

 

2sunny serves up some truth.

[road]

yes and MoM has contacted me everyday, including this morning already, but today I chose not to answer his call.

 

 

Yes your first good step since dday.

[road]

he has called me...I'm not responding to him. I'm divorcing my husband because its what's best.

 

 

A few posts ago you had no intentions of divorcing your BH. You were just banging the OM for some fun.

 

Now that you got caught and can no longer bang the OM you want to divorce.

[road]

I am confused. Telling someone that their truth is wrong is "supportive"? What if you are wrong and her truth is NOT wrong? Then everything you are saying to her is just noise, isn't it?

 

 

There is no being Right when you are a WW.

[bentleychic]

There is no being Right when you are a WW.

LOL Alrighty then. So b/c she was a WW, every single thing that she says is a lie.

 

Why exactly are you on an OW/OM board to begin with if you believe that everything being said here is lies?

[bentleychic]

Ditto. I guess to make people believe that they are wrong? My definition of support is very different. Huh.

You're wrong, you know you're wrong!

 

Well...that's...helpful?

[2sure]

I used a PI in my divorce, to gather evidence my attorney told me I would need. We live in a no fault state. All of the evidence was introduced in court because he spent money in an effort to deceive me.

 

It just isn't stalking in any way shape or form.

 

That's the way it's done. But, I'm in the US.

[sweet_pea]

Dang, a BS can't ever catch a break. Now it's wrong and stalking to try and get evidence of cheating. Of course it is. Man, the WS/AP have it good. They get to F around on the BS, doing anything and everything behind the BS' back aaaaaand if they get caught and the BS tries to find out more, it's stalking and illegal and so totally wrong of that BS. Shame on them.

[Scott Thomas]

Well, your opinion is yours to do with what you like. Ethics aren't universal. Many of your ethics are probably based on religion - those don't apply to me. I know the difference between right and wrong, and I do what's right and not what's wrong. Just because something seems unfair doesn't make it ethically wrong. Maybe for you, by your self imposed rules - but trying to apply those to everyone is ridiculous. Laws are universal - within an area at least. And, I don't break laws. That's one of my ethics that you don't have. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

So by your ethics or your religion, cheating is perfectly acceptable?

 

You know the difference between right or wrong? Where does infidelity fall?

 

By your self-imposed rules, you can sleep with another person but get angry if your spouse follows you to your lover's home?

 

We do not condone cheating. That's one trait you fail to show.

 

Different stokes for different people? Alright dear, when your partner deceives you by sleeping with someone else on you, do remember what you wrote.

[Scott Thomas]

My friend lives in Washington DC. Her husband cheated-her lawyer asked her to collect evidence for a pre-nup clause. The cheating spouse would not get any alimony. Her husband's lawyer asked the judge to discard this evidence. The judge asked that particular lawyer to sit tight.

 

My friend won the case. I was there and witnessed everything. You post by writing things 'as a matter of fact' and come off as someone who knows everything and are unwilling to accept someone else's opinion. You would do well to mend this.

 

While we may differ in our opinions, we should respect the other person's opinion. You think her husband was wrong in snooping. I think what he did was right and in some cases, legal. Sit tight and learn to accept the fact that some people will have morals/ethics/opinions that you think are outdated/useless/should not be applied unless you're in their shoes.

 

When this act is actually passed and signed, it becomes a piece of legislative law, which judged are free to interpret as they wish. They may adhere to this but may also chose to discard it. Read Boumediene v. Bush, 553 U.S. 723. Judges have, at times, disagreed with legislative laws and interpreted the US Constitution differently, coming up with different judgements. While this case is not related to the poster's problems or to snooping on your married spouse, it serves as an example that the actions of a legislative body are often overruled by the judiciary and the judiciary's interpretation of the constitution and what is right/wrong.

 

 

 

Do onto others what you want them to do onto you.

-Confuscious

Edited October 6, 2013 by Scott Thomas

[Scott Thomas]

Dear Maybemine,

 

I am a former BH and a WH (both ends of the fence). My input:

 

Your husband's response is completely natural. Remember the pain/betrayal you felt when he cheated? He's feeling the same pain. If he decides to forgive you and wants to work on the marriage, give him a shot. You owe this to the man you promised to love/cherish when you took your vows. However, if you decide to divorce him, make it amicable and cooperate for your children's sake. Remember, your decision may be a permanent one and if you end up regretting it, there is no going back. He may find another woman and get remarried etc. You;ll have to deal with all this. If you stayed with him while he abused and cheated you, then that's your decision. Will I am shocked and disapprove of his prior actions, I will not condone your affair-what's wrong is wrong and you, as a mother, need to act like a responsible role model.

 

You wrote that "It takes two to tango as MM use to tell me....I'm saying that if hBS was this calm and calculating knowing that I was cheating perhaps he's a fuse waiting to explode".

 

No dear, you were the one who calculated and cheated. His fuse was ignited when he discovered that the woman he loved betrayed him. Are you suggesting that you weren't angry when he cheated? Do you recall your feelings towards the OW? That is exactly what the OM's wide is feeling right now. You have to admit that both of you played a part in the deception and betrayal she is facing. When you ruin someone's life, you face to face their wrath.

 

 

Talk to friends who have dealt with infidelity in their marriage. Start IC and try MS with a counsellor who has previously helped couples reconcile from infidelity.

 

As of your Married other man. Mark my words; chances are he will never leave his wife for you. He's asking you to help him deceive his wife. At this point, he only cares about his own family. You're the woman on the side- the one he goes to for steamy hot sex sessions before returning home to his faithful, loving wife. He has thrown you under the bus and abandoned you when you needed him. He will do this again. Do you want to be his back-up woman, the woman he has no problem sleeping with but abandons if he has to step up and face the consequences of his actions. Anyone can talk-that's easy. It's walking the walk that defines us. Read the threads posted by other married women-most of them watched in shock as the OM discarded them. You can't take back what you did but you can prevent yourself from getting involved with the MM again. He wanted extramarital sex and got it. You wanted an emotional commitment from him. You will never gain this unless he leaves his wife. Are you're perfectly fine with divorcing your husband and then becoming your OM's mistress while he remains married. This is your decision to make.

 

To the posters who think her husband was wrong for snooping and verifying that she was cheating: The husband is within his legal right; there are thousands of cases where courts accepted evidence offered by the betrayed spouse during divorce. If you're married, 'stalking' or verifying whether your spouse if f*****g another person is within your rights and most judges would discard the clause concerning spying. If you experience what her husband is experiencing you'll alter your opinion. If your spouse cheats, sleeps and falls in love with another person, betrays you, lies and deceives you, keeps spending your hard-earned income, cuckolds you and prevents you from living a life with someone honest, maybe then you'll understand what her husband is going through. When you are married and you're spouse cheats, you are well within your right to discover their affair are divorce/reconcile. Privacy? So it's alright if I slept with the neighbour but blew up if my partner went through my mobile phone messages to discover my affair. After the divorce, the poster's life is none of her husband's business. Until then, her every action that impacts him is his business. By your logic, it's okay for you to file fraudulent taxes, rob a bank and murder someone but the government's investigation would infringe your privacy? Are you so naive or immoral that you can not differentiate between following an ex around and verifying your spouse's activities to discover if they are cheating/lying.

 

 

I am not judging you. Some of the posters here will write harsh words-as betrayed spouses, they feel the pain your husband is going through right now.

Start IC. Seek the help of a MC who has helped couples reconcile from infidelity. Read a few books about affairs (His Needs Her Needs, When Good People Have Affairs, Women's Infidelity by Michelle Langley, Recovering from an Affair, How can I help you forgive me, Hope for the Separated; Wounded Marriages Can be Healed). These books are well worth the amount spent on purchasing them. Perhaps a small separation from both the OM and your H will help you understand what you really want. Many WW's post here and write that they were deep in the affair fog; that it took them 102 years to get out and they feel shocked by what how they felt during the affair fog. Read the threads posted by betrayed spouses and other wayward wives. Introspection and pondering over the emotions you both feel will help you in the long run. Remember, the important part is that you prioritise your children (and not the OM). Your children, at some point in the distant future, will ask about your affair. I urge you to be honest and guide them in such a way that they learn from their parents' mistakes. Help minimise the trauma in their lives and ensure that you educate them so that they do not end up cheating on their spouses.

 

Love is not a feeling. Many, many people possessing a feeling of love and even acting in response to that feeling act in all manner of unloving and destructive ways. It is not only possible but necessary for a loving person to avoid acting on feelings of love. I may meet a woman who strongly attracts me, whom I feel like loving, but because it would be destructive to my marriage to have an affair, I will say vocally or in the silence of my heart, "I feel like loving you, but I am not going to". My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love.

 

True love is not a feeling by which we are overwhelmed. It is a committed, thoughtful decision. Genuine love implies commitment and the exercise of wisdom. When we are concerned for someone's spiritual growth, we know that a lack of commitment is likely to be harmful and that commitment to that person is probably necessary for us to manifest our concern effectively.

 

Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly loves does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. If it is, so much the better; but if it isn't, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised.

 

The common tendency to confuse love with feelings of love allows people all manner of self-deception. It is clear that there may be a self-serving quality in this tendency to confuse love with the feeling of love; it is easy and not at all unpleasant to find evidence of love in one's feelings. It may be difficult and painful to search for evidence of love in one's actions. But because true love is an act of will that often transcends ephemeral feelings of love, it is correct to say, "Love is as love does".

 

 

Good Luck. In any case, you and your husband deserve an honest and loving spouse. If you decide to divorce, respect his opinions and allow him to find a women who'll love him.

Edited October 6, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed blog and forum links.

[Scott Thomas]

First, it's already happened to me, and guess what? The world didn't end! It just kept on spinning round like it always has and guess what else? We all moved on to be happier (at least I think my exH is happier now, I certainly am!).

 

We all have "self imposed" rules. My rules are simple - and yes, I do know what is right and what is wrong. We disagree on affairs being "wrong". Your rule isn't "right" - why do you believe that it is and everyone else is wrong?

 

You may think it's okay to break the law in certain situations - I would disagree with you - our rules are different. And yes, I would think it was "wrong" for my spouse to invade my privacy in any way that I didn't want - but it isn't an issue as I have never had an affair while being with someone in my life, and never would - so my spouse would never follow me to my lover's house, wouldn't/couldn't happen. BUT, just because I would handle unhappiness and discontent one way doesn't mean that every other person in the world has the right to handle it the way that they see fit, what's best for them and their situation.

 

I do not assign myself the job of imposing MY beliefs and rules on everyone else. I believe in following the law - but beyond that, people are free to do as they need to do for themselves. I don't judge that, I have an opinion on it, but deem it "less than" what I would do? Nah, how could I? I am not living their life, I am not experiencing their pain or frustration - and we are different people - we will inevitably make different decisions on different things. I don't have a need to control the world or those around me. I can handle the world in all of its chaos and know that I will be okay. I don't rely on some false sense of control to ease my own insecurities.

 

I'll express my sympathies for your past experiences concerning infidelity from your husband's side. No one deserves this and his actions must have hurt you. I appreciate that you're taking out some time to post on this forum and look forward to a rigorous, yet friendly, discourse.

 

Aah, we've reached the 'glitch' as I call it. The problem, my dear lady, is that the husband is not breaking the law when he hires a PI, checks his wife's cell phone or e-mails, provided that they are legally married and share a marital home. I can't recall one single case where a betrayed spouse was penalised by a court because he/she opened the wayward spouse's laptop and read e-mails/messages. If you can enlighten me, please go ahead and name a case where the judge decided that a spouse should be fined/imprisoned/penalised because he/she, without informing their wayward spouse, checked the mobile phone, phone records, messages, emails etc. If this were the case, imagine the following scenario: My wife tries calling me but can't get through. She calls the office number and is informed that I didn't show up today. She tries calling me again and sends a few messages but I don't respond. She's worried and believes something might have happened-perhaps I had an accident. She calls the tracking company that placed the vehicle theft tracker in my car and asks them to verify my location. They inform her that I'm in the, for this example's sake, the financial district. She tries calling me again but fails. Worried sick, she heads over and discovers, to her shock, that my car is parked outside a brothel. She returns home, furious and heart-broken. When I finally return home in the afternoon, she is outraged and demands an explanation as to why I misled her and cheated. Should I get furious because she called the office without my consent? Can I ask my lawyer to proceed with a legal case against her? Would this case, based on the violation of my privacy by my wife, hold up in court, especially since we share a marital home, bed, finances and have children?

 

To the best of my knowledge, there is no law that stops a spouse from checking his/her spouse's e-mails/ mobile phone messages. There is no suck law in Britain/Europe/Asia/Africa/Commonwealth Countries (Canada,Australia, India etc) to the best of my knowledge. I am not sure about the United States but I've personally witnessed one divorce in which the judge refused to dismiss evidence of a wayward spouse cheating and used it to sette the pre-nup. If these is a law, it is rarely enforced, especially when spouses share a marital home and are not legally separated. If a pre-nup/post-nup has been signed and a spouse agrees to an infidelity clause with the condition that any form of evidence, with or without the consent of the wayward, is accepted, your so-called privacy infringement complaint will be thrown out of the window.

 

While I believe in maintaining some sort of mystery and allowing my wide her due privacy, her privacy ends when she starts sleeping with another man while she's married to me. Her 'sex-life business' became 'our business' the day we signed our marriage certificate and took our vows.

 

 

 

We all have "self imposed" rules. My rules are simple - and yes, I do know what is right and what is wrong. We disagree on affairs being "wrong". Your rule isn't "right" - why do you believe that it is and everyone else is wrong?

 

Could you elaborate on this? I posted that in my opinion, cheating on your spouse is not 'right', and concluded that, by your posts, you gave me the impression that you thought this wasn't the case. I would appreciate a clear, concise and articulate answer.

 

 

 

Cheers!

Edited October 6, 2013 by Scott Thomas

[maybemine]

I wonder how things are going with the OP...

Working on getting into my place and working overtime to avoid the h who has kicked it into overdrive with his affections and telling me he wants to leave. Told my kids were living in a different house, but that they still get to see daddy everyday.

Mom told me we shouldn't see each other but calls everyday to see how I am doing. Told him today not to bother me anymore....also I'm not in a state where adultery is a crime. I'm heartbroken and need time away from both men to figure out what's best for me without there input.

[maybemine]

I told Mom that I will tell his wife everything if she asks me....he said she doesn't want to speak to me at this time. I believe husband used phone key logger and on the computer....he doesn't appear to want to use it against me in divorce but used it only to get mom out of my life. Which to his knowledge has happened.

[maybemine]

Working on getting into my place and working overtime to avoid the h who has kicked it into overdrive with his affections and telling me he wants to leave. Told my kids were living in a different house, but that they still get to see daddy everyday.

Mom told me we shouldn't see each other but calls everyday to see how I am doing. Told him today not to bother me anymore....also I'm not in a state where adultery is a crime. I'm heartbroken and need time away from both men to figure out what's best for me without there input.

correction my husband DOESN'T want me to leave. That was a typo

[Scott Thomas]

This is a discussion board, I am simply discussing our differing opinions. I simply have research that I shared that backed up my opinions/beliefs. You are free to post things that do the same for yours. Discussing is not done to make others believe the way that you do - but providing evidence (laws no less!) that back up your position does lend a bit of weight to one's opinions/beliefs.

 

I don't claim to know everything, it's interesting that you think that I do. Google is my friend and I simply look things up - see what the facts are, and make my decisions about things in that way, with research and facts and knowledge. I could be wrong on every single thing that I think and believe - but if I am, there is research that proves that so are a lot of others, lol. Including, apparently, our justice system. Laws are facts - they are inarguable. I was simply showing that there are laws against stalking - even if you are stalking your spouse. That's just factual information - it just happens to back up my belief/opinion that stalking your spouse is "wrong".

 

Lets debate about this but on a different thread. We should devote our time/energy towards helping the OP.

 

Dear OP, I thought you mentioned that you would maintain strict 'no- contact'. In your opinion, is NC limited to meetings or does it include scheduled calls? Do you think (and I would urge that you read threads by other OWs) strict NC at any cost would help you distance yourself from the OM? Are you willing to adhere to NC despite the pain you may feel?

 

As for the stalking part-what would you have done if you were in your BH's shoes? Remember your affair; if your husband has tried to hide his infidelity, would you snoop? Remember, we shouldn't have one set of morals for us and an entirely different set of rules for others. That's would border on hypocrisy.

 

Additionally, I hope you read the posts in the previous 1-2 pages; specifically the post not related to our ongoing debate about the legality of 'snooping'. I hope you read my post. We're here to help you (even if that means knocking you on the head and posting some harsh words). We are not your enemies. Our concern is to help you and ensure that your actions do not permanently damage any chances of maintaining a friendly relationship with your husband for your children's sake. If you've read my post, could you read the story about the WW who was in your shoes years ago-she eventually reconciled with her husband. The similarities between you two are remarkable.

 

While I think you're free to do as you wish, I would urge you to pay particular attention to the posts of the people who want to help you. In my opinion, this includes strict NC (no meetings, calls or e-mails) with the OM, unless of course you want to become his mistress and continue the relationship. This is a choice only you can make, albeit one that I would never recommend.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Scott Thomas

[Scott Thomas]

Dear OP, my original post was flagged and the links to the MOW who's story bore an uncanny resemblance to yours, were deleted because the threads were from the 'Marriage Builders' forum and may not be posted as per Loveshack's guidelines. Is there anyway I could msg these links. I don't think I can msg here since ordinary members need to pay a subscription fee before they msg. Do you think I could send the msg at your hotmail/gmail/yahoo etc account?

[maybemine]

Everyone has a right to privacy. Just because you marry someone doesn't mean you own that person. If they choose to love someone else those ap didn't conspire against bs.marriage is a piece of paper that says I choose this person, but it doesn't see inside the heart to changing tides...

[HopingAgain]

Everyone has a right to privacy. Just because you marry someone doesn't mean you own that person. If they choose to love someone else those ap didn't conspire against bs.marriage is a piece of paper that says I choose this person, but it doesn't see inside the heart to changing tides...

 

Marriage is so much more than a piece of paper, but of course it only makes sense that an AP would make this their mantra. That is, until you are interested in getting married yourself, then of course you will drop that way of thinking like a hot potato.

[Scott Thomas]

Everyone has a right to privacy. Just because you marry someone doesn't mean you own that person. If they choose to love someone else those ap didn't conspire against bs.marriage is a piece of paper that says I choose this person, but it doesn't see inside the heart to changing tides...

 

Maybemine,

 

I'll begin by pointing out that we harbour no ill-will towards you and you could benefit by our advice.

 

"If they choose to love someone else those ap didn't conspire against bs"

 

The OW/OM who cheats with a MM/MW asks them to lie to their spouse does conspire against that betrayed spouse. Were you angry at the OW in your husband's infedility? If yes, then why shouldn't your BH get angry at the OM in your affair? Feelings of anger are perfectly normal unless your husband decides to endanger the life of the OM.

 

To biew the OM from your husband's view, lets use the following analogy:

 

If your neighbour knew your house was unlocked, called a gang of thieves, informed them that your house was unlocked, would you blame the thieves or the neighbour? Probably both, at least for most people who get robbed.

 

"Just because you marry someone doesn't mean you own that person"

 

Your BH does not own you. I agree with this notion.

 

"Everyone has a right to privacy"

 

Yes you have the right to keep your privacy intact. However, that right arises after you divorce and does not extend to lying/deceiving your spouse while you are married and share a marital house. The 'piece of paper' you signed on your marriage day ensured that you discarded the right to cheat/deceive your spouse. If you don't believe me, go over some recent divorce cases-courts do consider evidence of extra-marital infidelity when deliberating about marital assets and alimony. If you divorce (although I hope you find the strength to work on your marriage), ask the judge involved in your case.

 

As for the legality of checking your e-mails:

Does he own the computer you were using? If yes, then he can legally install whatever he wants on it as long as it is acceptable within the legal parameters of the law.

 

As most posters have pointed out, a significant number of judges do rule in favour of the right of a betrayed spouse to verify if the WW or WH is cheating. This is especially true if the WW or WH signed a pre-nup and agreed to forsake any claims for alimony if they cheated.

 

Can you recall your husband's affair. Were you angry with the OW? Did you attempt verify that your husband was lying during his affair? If the answer to these question is yes then your husband can return the favour by getting angry with the OM and verifying your lies. If you were angry at the OW in his infidelity and tried 'snooping' to verify his cheating, you can't claim that he is wrong. This would be extremely hypocritical.

 

"marriage is a piece of paper"

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but do you believe that marriage is ONLY A PIECE OF PAPER? What about the vows you take?

Would you hold the same opinion if your child's spouse cheated and answered that he/she thought marriage was only a piece of paper?

 

"but it doesn't see inside the heart to changing tides..."

You are free to fall in love and out of love. However, your husband fought those changing tides years ago during his affair and gave you a chance to win him over. Is there a specific reason that you are reluctant to give him the same chance?

 

In any case, do read my first post. If you decide to reconcile, I'll be more than happy to assist you. If you decide to divorce, please do so amicably, don't try to take away the majority of marital assets if you did not financially contribute towards purchasing them and do cooperate when it come to your children.

 

Good Luck wih your future endeavours!

[Scott Thomas]

Marriage is s piece of paper that many avoid like the plague. The paper adds an extra layer of commitment that makes people nervous.

 

Maybemine, did may seem a bit personal, but was your husband reluctant to marry you while you two were dating. Was he eager yo marry you and spend the rest of his life with you? Did you, in any way, or by any action, urge or encourage him to get married (eg during our extended courtship, my wife once told me that while she loved me, she wanted to get married and have kids-if this wan't my goal then I ought to stop stringing her along).

[underwater2010]

Everyone has a right to privacy. Just because you marry someone doesn't mean you own that person. If they choose to love someone else those ap didn't conspire against bs.marriage is a piece of paper that says I choose this person, but it doesn't see inside the heart to changing tides...

So was it a piece of paper when he screwed around on you? Or after?

[cif]

I think what OP meant was marriage is an UNCHANGING commitment on a piece of paper that does not account for the changes in our hearts. Thats what she wrote. Please ease up on her she is going through a rough time.

[atreides]

No, we didn't think we'd get caught. We were extra cautious with code words and text. We both have children, we wanted our own secret happiness is all, not to hurt anyone. We couldn't have for seen this. He did say he's not mad that this happened....He knows I don't love/want my husband. I only stayed this long for the children.

 

 

I am just starting to read this thread, i have not read the whole of it yet, but this just made me laugh. The OP was concerned about covert crap her H was doing and she is using code words (scratching head) mirror time.

[atreides]

MOM is not ignoring me, he still wants to be with me, he's just trying to fix his marriage ALSO...

 

Forgive me if this has already been answered (and i am still reading through this thread) but it sounds like he (OMM) is trying to get back to "cake eating" here. That means whenever trouble arises again (his wife might keep tabs and force NC), you are second fiddle yet again. Two men your H, when he cheated 6 years ago and now your MM, find some one else if you are not happy. Your MM is not going to be the saving grace here, start neutral.